Jon Siren, in full

0:05you what you so and I let you go you br what you so now there in your hi everyone thank you so much for joining us for our very first um stream and episode of Unwritten rules of the road um I am TSH and with me today is a incredible special guest and very dear friend of mine uh Mr John siren hi John hello hi everybody thank you so much for joining I'm excited to be here so um I I will describe John as what I consider to be a multi- hypen artist um he's not only a drummer but he's also an amazing songwriter um he

1:13authored the book The touring vegan um you also um are an amazing Chef um and a personal trainer um is there anything else that I'm I'm missing from the the hyphens um well that's that's about it probably for now yeah I mean I the the personal training thing kind of came came about recently but yeah that's that's probably it you know that's really amazing I mean do you think you were inspired from having written um the touring vegan to kind of um include in your offerings um yeah that uh I I think I mean I think so because yeah with writing the book one of the one of the

1:54things that I talk about in the book too is you know if you're GNA if you're G to kind of go down this path that seems sort of a fringe path you know I want to be a good example of That So Physical Fitness has been very important you know throughout that process I mean it's one of the multiple uh reasons why I'm into training myself and then because I've been doing it for so long uh you know I over the the pandemic I started training friends of mine and then that led into sort of a side hustle where I I do that in addition to to the

2:28drumming so um I I know for a fact that you went to culinary school so you have a really amazing background in nutrition and awareness of of Health um like kind of like in in if you for a person new to the touring vegan um which I personally love the recipes in there um like can you kind of give it us an overview of book yeah I mean the book the book is pretty much my own story I I sometimes have a hard time uh discussing veganism too much uh with people because it's going into ethics uh my my personal beliefs and everything like that I mean there's you know

3:08oftentimes people think that vegans are are sanctimonious and um you know and that's never been the case for me I or may maybe as a a very young vegan who's a teenager but you're pretty edgy in general at that point um so uh yeah I mean nutrition um sorry can you go back to the question again I was oh no I mean just like kind of I guess what what inspired you to to share like the the touring being and like to write it um and and to share what your knowledge is about about health and nutrition okay yeah yeah so um you know I decided to uh write the book because I

3:52I felt that I could put it in words better than than explaining it sometimes uh with people because often you know people would confront me uh you know in my younger days of of doing it and try to you know challenge my belief system and so I felt like okay well if I can articulate myself a little bit more and choose my words carefully you know putting it in a in a book format might be a better way to kind of express myself and I could always be like hey check out my book instead of you know but I mean nowadays I feel like I can

4:23discuss things a little bit more so I'm not really afraid to you know if anyone no one's really confronting me too much on it but you know occasionally people will will ask about it and and sometimes they'll even try to challenge me on it yeah well I I really have always loved and respected your approach in terms of like you're like this is something that has worked for me um and obviously you're an example of somebody who's very healthy um and is able to be on the road as we as we know from being touring musicians that is it is not easy it is a

4:56very very physically challenging lifestyle to say the least absolutely yeah I mean being on being on the road uh in general and trying to be healthy let alone you know being a vegan where you have less options when it comes to restaurants I mean it's more understood now so often if there's catering at the venue uh they're no stranger to to the vegan lifestyle at this point but definitely it wasn't the case you know several years ago uh when I first started doing this um and uh you know was definitely a lot more challenging but I think it's challenging in general uh to to remain healthy on

5:37the road you're not getting proper sleep uh you know you have to kind of work in uh exercise like I try to um in addition to performing uh and then also yeah eating right because because often people will you'll be at a truck stop and people will just go and buy the food at a truck stop which is always is pretty lousy it's either a fast food restaurant or what you would see in a convenience store so you know access to good healthy food and staying consistent with it becomes a challenge and you have to figure out a way to to travel since you know and if you're going to be doing

6:16this for multiple tours throughout the year you might be spending most of your time on the road and so you can't just neglect your health um or you won't be in the game for a very long time yeah absolutely I mean well you brought up an interesting topic I just wanted to kind of touch base on that um what was your very okay so what was your very first live show and what was your very first tour like yeah okay uh yeah I I first tour that's that it's a challenging one because I I was playing some you know small groups of shows um out of town with my band in

6:58high school uh one of my bands we were called medium and uh we would do maybe two or three dates you know a Friday Saturday Sunday type of thing um and uh you know so I don't know if one would call that being on tour I think my most substantial tour early on was with a group called inept and we would do like two weeks in the summer something like that where we would play regionally around Ohio but in some cases we went further south and we went to the East Coast I know that we played in New York and DC and places like that um so

7:36yeah those were my first gigs and that was a long time ago so that that was in the probably 1997 so yeah do the math well um it did you do the booking for these particular tours not those tours but um the person who booked those uh B I I was the youngest person in those groups uh Scott and Mike uh they they were they were the ones who who actually booked all those and they were also promoting shows in Columbus Ohio so they had a lot of connections with bands and other venues and promoters and I saw what they were doing and uh I believe there was something too

8:25like there was like a booklet called book your own life and I think it ended up being a website at one point in the early stages of the internet um and uh yeah so they were using that as well too where bands and and promoters and Bookers they all put their information in this sort of catalog uh so that other people could look at it and be like oh there's somebody in duth let's go contact them because we're driving in that area and it'd be great to have a show and like let's see if there's other bands maybe we can put something together and then bands would do favors

9:02for one another like if you know I played in yeah duth or something like that with this group then they might you know we might bring get them a show in Columbus Ohio so that's kind of how that worked out and I saw them do that and then that really gave me the blueprint on how to do things when I was booking tours for for mankind is obsolute you know several years ago yeah absolutely I can definitely see how you implied that I've I've been doing the same for Alice and um there's a really cool Facebook group called DIY tour postings um uh that it's it's

9:38similar it's a similar vibe in a sense that it's like it's a collection of different people who are like okay I'm in duth um you know and I play this style of music and you know let's see about like if we can trade shows or help each other out that sort of thing so you know I think that ideology definitely continued yeah and that's what you know a lot of people will ask me I'm not booking anything these days and I haven't for several years but but uh often people will say well how do I get a show how do I do this or how do I do

10:07that and I just keep going back to that sort of um you know method because I really can't think of other ways unless you've jumped a few steps ahead and maybe you have a nice team backing you and therefore you probably have a booking agent or access to one at that point but if you're trying to get your voice heard and get out there um I would really look to uh you know tra I guess trading favors on some level you know with with other groups you know try to find other like-minded people in different cities and and uh and do trades with them you

10:49know and I remember with with uh mankind is obsolete too it's just like when we were when we were starting that um we brought our PA system with us so it's sort of like oh you don't have a PA or this is just a place where you could hold a show but there's no PA well no problem we've got our own PA we just need power in a place where they'll let us be loud and so that was uh the mindset you know and we went with that yeah for sure um going back to like early tour life for you versus tour life now like what would you say the

11:25difference is for you like I mean at this point you know you have I'm sure you have a system that's dialed in right but like you know like go back to like first tour versus like the tour that you're about to do next like what is what is your what is your prep process and what what are what are the differences in terms of what it's actually like oh there's I mean there's so many differences on just an individual level I really care about the presentation in my drumming um uh not that I didn't care back then but I think that the bar was a

12:02bit lower for me in my younger days I was like I didn't really think so much about you know but there was also not YouTube and things where you're getting video of how you sound and look and you're like oh that's Dreadful or something like that and I need to work on my timing or something I'm a drummer or um so so I practice quite a bit more uh that's only grown in years I mean I've had I mean there's times where you have to be really efficient with your practicing but I definitely focus a lot more on being prepared well in advance um and

12:38often band leaders uh who bring me on to tours uh will change their minds quite often too so it's good to really know uh the catalog as best as possible because they might swap out songs uh even in the middle of a tour and I've had it often where I don't even know that song because maybe I joined a band that already has a catalog of five or six records and I knew some of the material but I didn't know all of the songs and all the drumming for it so that that certainly has happened too so I mean I try to be very much prepared because

13:15I've been in enough situations where you're in the hot seat and I don't like that feeling I don't think anyone does so I mean it can be exciting and thrilling because you're like oh wow am I going to pull this off maybe it's a really big show you're pulling up to I remember an IMX situation where Chris wanted to bring in Nightlife um a track that the band had played often before but I hadn't played it yet and IMX songs aren't even exactly like the album as far as the arrangement goes for live so uh you know we just had sort of a huddle in the front Lounge of the

13:54bus as we were driving to the show and and he sort of explained what he wanted and I kind of listened to you know a headphone and I mean it wasn't overly complicated as far as what I needed to do but I had to nail these parts down so I'm writing notes and just kind of getting it together but yeah sometimes you'll be in that position but uh anyway long story short the best thing to do is just be as prepared as you can kind of reeling it back in uh and that is a big difference between now and uh the original days of touring for me I guess

14:30that would be the biggest difference I'm sure there's other differences as well yeah it sounds like it's like you know in terms of like just the music alone it's like I feel like because it feels like you know you're like okay like I have to prepare this much more because you like feeling a certain way when you be able when you're going on stage and when you're touring um cuz yes um there is something to be said for feeling like I'm ready as opposed to I think this is the song and this is where it goes yeah I mean it's don't get me wrong it's it's actually somewhat exciting to

15:08be in the hot seat you know I don't know if that's some sort of masochist masochistic side of me uh where you're like oh can I pull this off you know maybe it's some ego move on my my end but uh to be honest I mean you it feels much better going into it be you know being confident and and very sure of what you're going to do um and have rehearsed the songs over and over and over again so that you're not really thinking about the part so much you can you know think about the other players you can think about you know interacting with the crowd or or just

15:45being I guess one with the music and and not so uh focused on okay here comes that chorus and I've got to do a fill right here and I've got you know when you're thinking too much about it you might you know you're you're playing changes a little bit so yeah yeah absolutely I mean it's a matter of getting out of your head I think ultimately um exactly a basic on a basic human level like um what okay so this is that's a couple questions but like how do you prep for a tour um and what does like a packed bag for John siren look

16:25like when you're going to get on to the bus oh wow okay okay so it seems like every year now uh being told by tour managers that space is a major issue and that has to do with everything you know maybe it's flights maybe it's the weight of your suitcase uh the gear that you're going to bring the drum set I'm going to play on um bands are wanting me for a number of reasons to scale down and I already play a pretty min minimalist kit to begin with so I mean I've scaled down quite a bit and really just distilled things down to the essence of

17:07what is needed to make these songs happen um which can be kind of fun I really enjoy the minimalist approach but uh um so that's but also like I said too with the luggage or you know maybe you're flying but even on the bus or maybe it's an RV uh they don't want me showing up with a million suitcases or something like that so I might get one suitcase so uh it's whatever I'm wearing on stage or hardly wearing in certain cases because they're like yeah just do that no shirt drummer thing so that's easy you know the no shirt drummer things is is easy because then you don't

17:44have to think so much about you know some sort of costuming or or something like that and some bands are more relaxed and they they don't really care what you're wearing on stage so much and but uh I I tend to play in a lot of groups that have more of a theatrical element and a very specific look that they're going for so I try to kind of fit with that but with costuming too it's like maybe you need a bunch of things on hangers but but still consolidating in space is always important so I try to I've got my stage outfit mostly bring a

18:19lot of underwear and socks because there's nothing more gross than taking a shower and then getting a bunch of dirty clothes on and you're like ah I got to wear that underwear again and flip it inside out or you know you might not get to do laundry super you know often so uh sorry uh you get disgusting on the road so when you give us a hug it's gonna be gross most likely yes yes like sorry yeah so there's that I do find most people like the sweaty hugs though yes so but anyway U underwear socks the most important thing I have a workout outfit that I bring and I try to do you

19:03know because if I'm also hauling gear in and out of the venue sometimes I switch into those dirty clothes because they're just going to stay dirty and gross until I can wash them and then I have my oh I'm going to meet people clothes and and so I put those on and then I'm I'm like all right I'm done meeting people I will put those dirty gross clothes on because now I'm loading gear again so I I'm a little strange like that but it allows for the laundry did not pile up um and you have moments where if you have to be very presentable or hey there's a

19:35photographer that showed up that wants to shoot the band and you don't want to like you know be wearing that gross shirt that you've been wearing all week so which you know I've made all these mistakes so that's why I'm saying that but anyway scale it down be very particular with what you're going to bring because uh space may be uh you know an important oh yeah and learn to adapt you know I guess I've I've had to learn to adapt you know like maybe I need two Toms uh for a group or I could easily use two Toms but the band's like hey we want to

20:11ditch that Tom we're we're literally cutting this down and want a really tiny kit so I'm like all right I got to rework maybe some fills or grooves using just the one Tom uh so yeah that's just part of the deal I think but uh yeah anyway learn how to break it down and be a minimalist you know you can't be like uh if you've seen space balls and show up with the giant hair dryer um all right that was a old school reference there for any of those who grew up in the 90s I think it was in the 90s not sure I forget

20:47anyway so um currently what tours do you have on deck for this year ah okay well um I'm about to do a tour with Frontline assembly and we're going to go out with Gary Newman in Ministry and so that happens in about a week a little over a week um and uh let's see after that kind of go back and forth between Frontline assembly and cyclon 9 in April and and may uh just because Frontline assembly has is doing that sick New World Festival in Las Vegas um and just before that I've got two dates in Europe one of them is a festival and one is in London with with

21:37cyclon 9 and then I come back yeah I do sick new world with Frontline and then I go right back to Europe with cyclon 9 to do a a short tour centered around us doing wave Gothic trein which is kind of a it's a big yeah goth festival and uh so yeah we do that Germany and uh yeah about 10 days out there uh there might be something in the summer that I cannot discuss because it's not locked in uh you know I drum I drum for several bands some of them people have seen me with a few times and then there's other situations where maybe I'm a fill

22:20in uh you know just doing a tour or maybe it's just a case by casee scenario like hey we just need a drummer on this tour there's no strings attached kind of thing so anyway there could be something in the summer uh I'm waiting to find out and it seems like it will fit in nicely between things and not interrupt anything else and then um I know IMX has some stuff coming up uh I think late August September some something around then and uh from that point onward I don't know I mean I do know of stuff with IMX and 2025 but that's you know I

23:01guess way down the the path but some of the year is still open and I try to stay pretty busy if I can I enjoy the road there's a lot of musicians that don't really like the road because it is tough you know and it t I think it takes like a um a certain type of person who really just enjoys doing it especially as much as I'll go out and do it I mean often people are pretty happy with maybe just a tour a year or something like that um and there's a lot of musicians I'm sure we've all met musicians that would just

23:39prefer to stay in the studio and not not tour so much so what is it that you love about being on the road ah um well never wanted to join the Army necessarily but I there's something that my idea of the army just this team camaraderie uh you know with a goal and a focus and sort of a daily regimen that actually excites me on some level uh I I really like that and I I I like waking up also in a different city and just you know stepping off the bus or out of a hotel or something like that and being like oh wow this is neat you know this

24:24is you know I'm in Norway how about that that's cool um so really enjoy that yeah the the routine of it all uh getting better night after night as a band that really excites me uh I think that a band really starts to get tight after three or four shows like I mean we could all be professionals who've done this for a while and so maybe it's it's still pretty good the first night but but there's something about okay now we're in a we're in a group here and we're really just fine-tuning things and and I really I really like that progression that starts to

25:05happen so so yeah if you catch a band three or four shows in and not that first one then uh then yeah you're in a good good place to to see that group I guess absolutely there's definitely the first Pancake rule of yeah let's just go play in Bakersfield the first night no respect let's have that one show of a play you know in in a in a city that not as many people will come and see us that's all I meant about that and then hit the big markets you know you know San Francisco LA or whatever because usually a lot of these tours you know uh leave from La often if

25:50it's a US tour that is okay so this is a a knock on wood question for you but like okay you're super super busy and as we were mentioning earlier scoring is very very like physically challenging um have you experienced um any kind of like injury or illness and and if you have like how do you deal with that ah good question um absolutely I uh let's see well I was sick on on a recent tour uh with cyclon 9 so I remember that was rough luckily the band helped me out I mean some of some of the groups uh you know you carry a lot more responsibility than

26:36other groups like maybe some of the Bands I'm in we might have a crew that can kind of help load in and out and pack and set up stages and things like that uh in with with cyclon 9 it's it's a bit more DIY and and it's all hands on deck so yeah I got sick uh you know all of us did at the same time it seemed like and uh yeah the show has to go on in most cases I hate to put it that way but it's I mean it sounds like tough break you know what I mean so what I did was you know I you try to conserve your

27:13energy as best as possible you isolate yourself of course so that you don't um try to get others sick I mean if you're in a vehicle I don't care if it's a bus or a van you're I mean everybody's getting exposed to whatever's happen happening it's just inevitable and uh you know your immune system is compromised on the road you're not sleeping as well uh I try to get the eating part down in the exercise but even with that it's you know my sleep I don't sleep on on buses or Vans too well so there's that uh so anyway you just have to try to take care of business but in

27:53order to do so just conserve a lot of your energy and then when there's maybe a day off just really rest honestly I think that's the best that you could do um I've also had food poisoning on the road and that sucked I had to do I remember having to do two bands that night so after the first band and and it was the last day of tour here exhausted anyway um this is another reason why I like to make my own food and not eat at restaurants and other one of the many reasons you know but uh you know cuz you're who knows someone might

28:28have used the bathroom and didn't wash their hands and then they're touching your food and boom you're having a moment I'll leave it at that but I do remember it was it was comical terrible at the time but I remember you know I'm in set number two and this was with imperative reaction and I was playing guitar with that one and I had a trash can in the back of the stage in a corner and I often was going back there to vomit uh you know while while the was happening so we were just you know said the show's got to go on I've got to be

29:01in a real bad to completely cancel um and sometimes people have to cancel I mean I don't think I've ever been on a tour where someone was in such a condition where we straight up had to cancel I don't think I've actually experienced that funny enough because I've been on several tours and I mean there's certainly situations where people are are in far worse shape yeah oh well um we're actually getting a question real quick on Facebook from Jason wart um asking um he says I'm a drummer and as I get older the more I find I have to do exercises to warm up before a show or my hands start to cramp

29:44at times in the show um he's asking um do you do any kind of warmup before a show absolutely absolutely uh you know what if you can get if you can have more gear on the road with you then awesome the first thing that I would do is I bring a bass drum pad with me and a practice pad and an extra stool and you know because maybe your gear is already set up on stage and you can't really access it and it's been you know it's going to be on there for a few hours before you actually get behind the kit so if you can get yourself a practice

30:16pad a little setup like that maybe a crappy in my case double pedal because I do a lot of double pedal um and just get your feet and hands warmed up and it could be you know any sort of exercises or exercises that are pertinent to the type of music that you're playing uh I find that really really really important I do try and and if if you can't do that let's say you know just may maybe you just have a pair of sticks I would do calf raises and so that is you know like maybe if you see a step somewhere put your feet at the edge of the step and

30:54and let your body go down and up and raise I I find that calf raises really activate those muscles well uh even just doing sort of an you know various exercises like some squats and some push-ups and things like that get your body used to moving do some jumping jacks uh if you have the sticks uh there's usually maybe a couch backstage grab like a pillow from the couch and just just do a lot of singles with wrists things like that because yeah I mean sometimes you have to fire right out of gate with a very fast song and I've certainly cramped up uh doing that

31:33not being warmed up and drink a lot of water so I mean you're you're kind of an athlete when you do this sort of thing so you I didn't really think of it in that way when I was younger but you know the older you get you're more aware of your body and and what your body needs and it's really important to to just be as prepped as you can be so yeah that's that's what I would do I mean if you have the ability bring that stuff go find a corner where you're not bothering anybody even go outside if it's the weather's not bad uh you know in the

32:05alleyway that that's going to be me a lot a lot of the time and I'm just hitting things so that I'm primed and ready and by the time you see me on stage I've been playing the drums for 30 or 40 minutes already if I'm lucky if not then it's the other stuff the Jumping Jacks and that yeah that's one thing I noticed um from our touring together is that you you were sort of like whatever I have available so like if you have the equipment great but I I've seen you also use like body weight just to be able to like get warmed up as well so yeah yeah

32:41I mean if you can't bring resistance bans or even dumbbells I I bring all this stuff with me on the road whenever I can if not you know just get down on the ground start doing push-ups start doing burpees and jumping jacks and all that kind of stuff I mean you want to get your body primed and ready to do the thing and especially if you're going to give people a very energetic performance for like an hour or an hour and 15 minutes or even 30 minutes if you're a warm-up band you know it's really important to um I think to give you know a high energy performance

33:15you know I mean I guess it depends on the type of music you're playing too you know if you're in like a shoe gazy kind of band then I can imagine all right you don't need to be like wailing the the ride symbol or something that that might be interesting I mean but yes oh yeah no I've Seen My Bloody Valentine live and they were I mean the drummer was hitting those drums so anyway yeah yeah I like my question I do too um sorry there's there's drumming going on I hope that that's that's uh not not okay yeah I can't hear anything um we have a a question on Twitch from

33:52Charles gole um what do you do if you fly and your kit gets hel up somewhere and you don't have drums to play ah interesting question okay so I rarely fly with drums uh and and one thing that I do when I'm when I'm on the road uh if I have to fly to you know we usually work that stuff out in in advance where there's a backline at the shows or maybe there's even a kit in storage with certain bands we might have a kit in Europe uh so often the you know fly into wherever we need to be and then that you know kit ends up in the trailer and off

34:31we go uh so either there's a backline that's rented for the whole tour or the shows or you know in some cases I have a kit in Europe uh not for all the bands that I'm in but you know one band and uh that's what we do but I don't usually fly with a complete drum set I mean that's that's a lot to ask of anyone I think you'd be spending way way too much money I think that you would be better off even buying a crappy kit which I've done before not me personally but the the tour will cover that cost of okay I'm looking at a

35:07catalog of drums that's just really cheap like Hey what how can we do this with a certain you know in a certain budget but yeah once you start flying with some of that gear it becomes quite expensive um you're getting some love on YouTube so Victor so good to see you thanks for tuning in um Victor novatron says that he can confirm spotting John backstage banging on a practice pad for like an hour in the dark while the rest of the band is out eating dinner and is giving you much respect for your dedication oh thank you thank you yeah yeah no that's I I kind of I think I

35:43recall that happened not too long ago so yeah I was drumming in the dark uh this was back in uh Portland I believe at that I'm trying to remember that venue but uh yeah there was because they had it was sort of side stage in the dark but um but yeah I I would often do that um Jason Campbell on YouTube is asking as H have you ever added ankle weights when you do your calf raises or when you do your calf exercises yeah the ankle weight thing is awesome actually uh you're if you're a person's definitely probably like a a drummer I'm guessing but uh I think Jean

36:24Hogan from a number of thrash and death metal bands he's an incredible drummer uh he highly recommends the calf weight thing and he even drums with them or practices with them so I I have done that myself and it is it is a really good idea actually and so yeah doing cap ra raises with a little bit of weight it doesn't have to be ankle weights if you're doing cap raises you could just you could probably just do a few uh without any weight at all just using your body weight but if you wanted to you know if you have a dumbbell or just anything that's heavy and you want to

36:59you want to you know hold it in one arm and then you know hold a railing or something like that and then you could you could add some resistance to it and that that might help so I don't try to it it's it becomes a fine balance because you don't want to completely work yourself out like like if I'm going to go do a show like even when I'm on the road I don't do like crazy leg day work or anything like that because you know I just find that that can affect my my playing a little bit if I go really heavy duty on the legs I will work out

37:36my legs but I try to like keep it within reason so because you just don't want to be you know you just don't want to have that fatigue going on when you're especially if you're I mean maybe if you're playing lighter music or something that's not as involved with the feet but if you're doing something like in my case some some of these groups have lots of double base and and so I I need to I just want to feel um not so fatigued when I'm doing that yeah absolutely it's a matter I think of having kind of the self-awareness of pacing yourself and knowing like hey

38:09this is going to over tax my body so it's like a marathon right right exactly exactly so so you got to kind of figure out what works for you um you know and just what the gig demands of you so yeah and that's going to vary from person to person we have a really sweet question from our our dear friend Monica Lowry um what inspired you to take up the drums and become a musician hey there I haven't I haven't talked to you in a while it's nice to hear from you um so what inspired me is uh I think I even wrote about this in

38:49the book uh the early days of my childhood I I can just vaguely recall I had a babysitter that flipped on MTV you know so you know and I was a very young person and obviously I wasn't really thinking about MTV I was probably watching Sesame Street at the time and uh anyway she flipped on MTV and I was pretty mesmerized by the videos and the music and and that right there plan at the seed and and around that time thereafter I think the song and the video that changed everything for me was Guns and Roses Welcome to the Jungle it had just come out I was really young at this time so I

39:37was I don't know I'm trying to do the math like maybe like eight years old or something like that when that song came out I'm not totally sure so I might have the years wrong but I was I was young saw that video and I knew I had to do whatever that was and I couldn't quite figure out which person I wanted to be within that band but I wanted to do something so that kind of that kind of planted the seed I didn't come from a musical family I mean our family enjoyed music but it wasn't something that anyone really pursued so I didn't have

40:13anyone uh trying to coax me to go in that direction or anything like that I had to really kind of figure it out on my own yeah I mean I did was would you say that was the point or would um like later on was there a point where you're like I'm going to music school um oh yeah um okay so yeah this is an interesting one I I got Drums at an early age at one point but I think in my childhood I I had the opportunity I remember I can recall my parents did give me lessons they they did allow me to go get so they were very

41:00supportive in that way um uh that said I think I was mentally just struggling quite a bit as a kid I mean full disclosure so it was a really difficult childhood I was very very depressed there was a lot of things going on within the family um just my way of handling things uh I I did didn't have a lot of faith in myself in General on anything so I struggled quite a bit therefore I did not uh practice a lot I had I didn't have that much interest or and I didn't have a deep understanding of what it would probably take to pursue this in real life I just assumed some I

41:50I don't know what I was thinking in my head because I think I still wanted to be this rock star or something like that as a kid but I just didn't understand what type of work it would take or dedication or lessons and things like that so all right so reeling it all in I'd say around 18 years old uh when I started getting more serious with bands that were touring even though these were punk bands and uh you know we none of us were too edicated on our instruments I mean it was all about just making some noise and hanging out together and and

42:25we had connections to trade all these shows so I was doing the thing I was touring and I was performing but honestly I didn't really know what I was doing and it probably showed so that said at a certain point I realized I needed a lot of work you know if I was gon to really do this and so around 18 I started really you know getting into lessons and and actually practicing the stuff that the teacher was giving to me uh so yeah and then from that point on I ended up at Mi eventually you know there was a lot of steps that that

43:02brought me to Mi which is a music school used to be a music trade school in Los Angeles and now it's sort of a music trade school and a a degree program so needless to say I I finished my degree by going there and I don't honestly know how they even accepted me I was definitely falling behind in classes because the PE the level things were in the speed that things were going I was I was hanging on you know as best as I could but that definitely really helped me out and it really helped me learn how to eventually uh further my education by myself and at

43:44that point it just becomes about knowing how to put in the work understanding uh I guess how to dissect songs and and know what the different part Arts are and things like that I mean it really kind of helped in a lot of those areas for me uh but but that said as well I think I could use drum lessons even to this day there's there's so much that I think I could be improving on it's just there's not a lot of time and drum lessons are quite expensive too so it's like if I was going to do drum lessons I would want to know that I'm going to be in town for a

44:21certain amount of time to really benefit from from those lessons yeah absolutely well I I I definitely can say that I speak for a lot of people when you are one of the most dedicated and hardworking people I've ever known so it doesn't surprise me at all that um Mi I absolutely was like yes we want you you know um thank you yeah yeah no I mean Mi was fantastic you know I can't say enough good things about Mi I know sometimes people will go and knock the idea of going to music schools I mean I've been around some of that before and I that

45:01just wasn't the case for me of it being this this kind of silly thing I mean I really got a lot out of that education so yeah I'm very happy I got to do it I I I I I agree with you in the sense that like for education I mean obviously I feel like we learn while we're on the road even right just the live playing experiences is in of itself an education um it is nice when you have the luxury of being able to actually like you know learn from another person um something that you don't have yourself so yeah absolutely yeah yeah um uh on YouTube

45:42I'm sorry not YouTube Facebook our friend Joshua Latrell um is asking a question we're sending love Joshua by the way it's really awes to see you on here um says uh touring is exhausting and stressful um what are some tools you use for addressing mental health and conflict ah interesting um okay over the years I've just you learn how to communicate better so that is crucial um you know if something's really really bothering you I can understand if you're working for someone and you understand that there's like a hierarchy or a pecking order maybe uh you might not want to open your mouth too often uh but I I mean I can

46:29understand the desire not to open your mouth and in some cases you don't open your mouth you know if there's a problem you you you you you kind of gauge what is important to to bring up and what isn't but then also how to effectively communicate if there is a problem who knows what it could be it could be anything like oh uh maybe I you know it'd be nice to get paid more on this tour because I've been at a rate for a certain amount of time and there's inflation and blah blah blah blah so now you have to bring up this money discussion and you know how can you go

46:59about doing it in such a way that that doesn't seem like you're that seems like you're respecting the people that you're working for but also trying to you know help yourself in your own situation out so yeah learning how to communicate or if there's any sort of other issue I mean there's there's I mean there's countless issues I mean you're all living in a vehicle together there's you know sometimes 10 12 people in a or something like that and so you're all in a tight spot and so uh yeah learning how to communicate things like uh you know I here's a funny one against me where people will I used to

47:39cook on the bus now that's okay in certain band situations because they also do it the rest of the band is all doing it but I've learned my lesson to not cook brussel sprouts or broccoli things like that that are getting steamed on a bus so I've had people have to communicate that with me and so I learned to just simply not cook certain things on the bus like that or if I'm going to do something like that uh get an extension cord or do go to a truck stop and then do it outside in your instant pot and then let it air out there and then

48:16you're usually probably pretty good so yeah but people had to communicate that to me because it was something that I was doing and I just was blissfully unaware because it didn't really bother me um and uh but it was bothersome to many other people so so no durian on the bus yeah probably don't bring durian on the bus so I mean yeah there's a little bit of as they say walking on eggshells that you got to do I mean because yeah you're in a bunch of you know there's a bunch of people sitting together and uh it's good to read the room it's good to kind

48:47of again communicate well so uh you know if there is a problem people could just open their mouth and say it and then we just we just deal with it and there's no hard feeling and we just keep moving forward you know that way we all get to you know sort of live the way we are trying to Live While coexisting together absolutely I I it is absolutely definitely a give and take and compromise and I think you just hit the nail on the head when it comes to like communication really being key because I mean like you were saying earlier it's like it's a team right

49:20so right exactly you know and some sometimes you have to bring something up even with a band and that could be kind of scary because you're like I don't want to lose my gig you know I've had to bring that up before you know something whatever it could be uh and so yeah you have to you have to choose your words wisely but but again you can't let things eat you up inside completely you know if it's something that's a serious issue it's it's probably worth bringing up uh but you know try to try to do it in such a way where you're respectful in

49:52the understanding of the person that you're talking to uh while doing that and that just takes time and experience I think for many people uh you know a younger version of me it's just yeah it was just a bit more of a mess you know I'm sure you've seen a million of those examples I know that I've been a mess in the early days of mankind is Obsolete and other groups when when dealing with any sort of Confrontation and or or lack thereof you know may maybe there was times where some you know I buried something so much and just never said anything and that can be that

50:29can be damaging if it's really eating you up inside you know so yeah it's it's good to communicate and then also be you know aware you know try try to come at things in a way that uh you know yeah are respectful towards the other person and and allow for the people to be open about talking about things that are I guess maybe hot button topics you know so and having just you know kind of a a strong sense of self in a way so that you can take a bit of criticism I think I think one has to be able to take a little bit of criticism too you know so

51:06that's important yeah absolutely absolutely I think um having that level of humility is is absolutely vital um at any level right sure yeah yeah and it's it's a constant learning process and getting to know people I mean even though I've been touring with some of these groups for a few years now it's just like you know each tour is it's is a brand new chapter and it's like okay know and there will be a problem you know at some point and so you have to kind of figure out how you're going to handle that you know and it's all about the way you react to things so yeah yeah

51:46absolutely how you choose to react yeah how you choose to react I think that's pretty wise because you it is a choice right um AB absolutely you might feel a certain way and you can't control that but the way you choose to react is something that you can you can have a level of control and I think that that just takes time I mean younger people generally probably have a a more challenging time with that just because they don't have enough experience you know but you know we all know what happens when things just really erupt and it's not pretty and and it doesn't have to be like that you can have a

52:18challenging conversation probably and uh and everybody leaves feeling a little bit better from the situation you know absolutely I think one of the things too like you know remembering that if you do have a conflict that ultimately you're on the same page like you want to have an amazing successful you know musical experience together right so right right exactly yeah so so it's important yeah yeah definitely definitely uh you know open your mouth and then and then you know because yeah sometimes you got to just let something slide you know but but if something's like an ongoing thing then maybe you need to bring it up you know if it's something

53:05like oh that person just slammed the door one time while I was sleeping and it woke me up is it worth it to really go and make a big issue of it if it's maybe an ongoing thing then okay cool we'll we'll talk about that may you know but but yeah that would be an example of it's not worth it just try to go back to bed and and and that's that so um on Facebook we have a question from Ed web um saying so I recently had a band overseas asked me about music promotion to be able to tour here in the states how does that work do

53:42you guys have a manager that handles all that um and I think uh off the cuff like it just depends on the situation um John go you've been in all different kinds of bands and all different kinds of yeah um okay so if you're looking to come to America with a with a band I know it's got to be a little bit more tricky because I believe that you probably have to have work visas um it's where it's not quite I mean I have to have work visas for certain countries but for many countries for example in Europe I don't need a work visa I can

54:24just go there uh so that all being said I mean that's not the case in the UK or uh turkey and for a while when I was going to Russia and Ukraine you need I needed visas and all that so anyway I would look into that first see how uh you know see if you know because if you're going to do this on your own um that's going to be important you know kind of figuring that part out uh yeah having a booking agent definitely helps especially when you're dealing with other countries I think DIY booking tours within your own country is one thing because you know the terrain and

55:08there's not as much uh there aren't as many roadblocks in front of you I mean but when you're having to hop on a plane and then enter through customs and immigration it's a whole another ball game so you have to really set things up properly uh so yeah I would uh to sorry one of my airpods died so I'm just charging it for a second here um so yeah I would I would uh I would try to find a booking agent you know if you're trying to leave the country but my question to you would also be have you toured enough within your own country have you played enough

55:50shows there I wouldn't I wouldn't start trying to focus on different countries until there's a bit more of a demand for you um but I'm not I don't I have no idea you know where you're at with it because I don't know what band this is or anything like that and where you're at with the with the career on that so anyway I hope I answered that I probably didn't give the best answer for it because I know there's a lot of red tape in getting to another country I mean that's a huge leap and often you need a bit of a team it seems like to

56:25make that happen oh yeah and both ways like whether you're going to Europe or you know a European band is coming here there's just a lot of red tape to deal with for sure absolutely absolutely um we're getting a question from Dolan James um on Facebook um out of all the songs you guys have put out which one comes to mind the most personally um H that's really difficult that's a really difficult one I I I I I I'm bouncing around between a few so narrowing it down would tough uh that's say go with the few yeah I mean I went with something about awake was you know

57:25felt like really nailing an idea or a Vibe down that I I think you know that that I was trying you know because some sometimes it's been a while since I've been writing music but uh often when you're writing songs I think the thing that at least my goal is to connect with the music you know be able to express myself through music in such a way that is very satisfying you know like like I'm really expressing myself and getting my point across and pulling together all these instruments you know and it's all working together to to create this this image that I have in my head that I

58:07might have a hard expressing completely like you know because you're trying to piece together all these components and I think with that particular song it it it kind of brought it all together you know uh just the the play between all the the instruments plus the vocals and so yeah maybe maybe awake uh but I also think about the early days and just some of those some of those songs and you know uh yeah that's yeah that's a tough one that's a tough one uh but but awake really I think kind of kind of landed it you know it's it's really songwriting is really tricky

58:50because you get really attached to what you're doing and and maybe that's part of the reason why I haven't been writing music a lot because it it it becomes so personal and it affected me on such a deep level you know trying to get you know like really articulate yourself through music um so yeah I kind of I know I went off a little bit there but uh you know awake was an example of because I also didn't feel like I was ripping off some other band there's there's plenty of moments because I think that that's what was also going in my head there was very

59:28there was other moments when I was first learning how to write where I felt like oh wow I'm just listening to an awful lot of this band or that band and I feel like I'm really just you know we reworking some chords and sounds to create this whole thing and not exactly uh you know kind of fully being myself and and part of this whole thing with in my younger days when I was writing a lot more music is you're really trying to discover what your voice is so yeah yeah absolutely I mean what I love so much about awake as well is that I

1:00:05mean we always use this as an intro I mean we tried other incarnations but I felt like it was always like this explosive intro that was kind of an introduction to like this is our sound right and it felt like a really like yeah yeah yeah because that song Just Just kicks right in it it's kind of Balls to the walls just the the vibe and and and even to this day I think about the drum beat and I really liked I mean as as a drummer within the song too it's just like I think about just you know with bands that have a lot of electronic

1:00:41elements at least at the time I didn't hear ones that were so spasy and like the drums are kind of and and and unhinged a little bit sounding and and I and uh I don't often get to play in in such a way with other electronic bands where it's just like drive that beat down the middle I mean that's a lot of electronic music for you but um yeah with that one I felt like I you know could have this sort of unhinged Vibe going on so yeah and I kind of I kind of missed that and I and um I really do enjoy some of that kind

1:01:21of stuff and I think that that's just sort of you know even that drum beat and just the way that song is even though it turned out a completely different way but like going into it you know with the writing you know it kind of reminds me of just the the hardcore and the punk type of bands that I saw growing up in the 90s and that I was a part of you know back in the you know inep days and when we were out with fans like Los crudos and Hell nation and Charles Bronson and these these bands that would just play these like minute long grind

1:01:55core songs or uh that were you know had a million different little parts and it's just like it just this ball of frantic energy and that's just kind of how I felt that that was my mood so you're Al you're also this is me kind of reflecting back on how I was as a younger writing that stuff too because I was I was a bit unhinged you know I mean the older you get you you mellow out a little bit because you realize that you you can't kind of be in that mindset and and survive almost you know so like my my attitude was a bit more unhinged when

1:02:35when a lot of that stuff was was written yeah well I think that like um you know it's it's it is one of those things where like you you are like inevitably a product of your influences whether you're conscious of it or not right like and I think it is it is amazing when you reach a point because you know I know that you know you having really studied composition you know it's like you reach a point of evolution as an artist where you're like okay this is actually my voice now um so I feel like that song is definitely reflective of that kind of

1:03:15transition point for you you know as like okay this is where I'm actually starting to hear my own voice and really tap into that side of expression for me yeah no no for sure absolutely absolutely yeah I I mean and I I would imagine the longer one continues to hone their craft of songwriting they can tap into these things a bit easier I mean there's something beautiful and magical about the innocence of Youth when when you're doing this too where you're just trying and experimenting and trying to figure out your voice where you might come up with something that's pretty interesting and cool and that hasn't

1:03:52been done before because you're not really see seeing any limitations or not too many of them uh you know when you get older you're like oh we can't do this because we're going to you know people aren't going to be able to Define us and it won't fit into a box that we can you know Market later and sell and actually have success with because it will be two all over the place so yeah I mean th those start those thoughts start to possibly come in with people as you know as you progress as a as a songwriter I mean maybe maybe it doesn't for some people but it also depends on

1:04:24probably what your goals are with it too um you know if if you're literally just doing this only to express yourself if that's literally the only thing that matters then then yeah you can you can pretty much do whatever you want but sometimes when you're thinking oh I have to somehow impress a few people in order to take this on the road in order for have to have booking agents want to book me and promoters want to work with me and all that kind of stuff if you're thinking on those terms can which could easily possibly poison the the writing process um yeah you you

1:05:04might the way you write things or approach things you know you might try to look at the brand I hate that word sorry it's one of those things where people like what's your brand bro I'm like uh yeah the John siren Brands exactly it's just like I don't I really don't like that so much but sorry I'm like super all over the place right now no no this is so great we we all very much appreciate you taking the time um I we actually got a a question from pet Peter pin about if you have this is this is all over the place speaking of all over the place I'm

1:05:46jumping totally tanging but he was asking if you have a recipe for mapo tofu that you could share for what what kind of tofu uh Maple it's like a it's like a Chinese dish Maple Maple tofu I feel like close to your B I feel like it's close to your baked tofu dish though so yeah yeah and you could you could use well if you said if I'm hearing you properly Maple like Maple has um m m a p o Maple oh oh God I don't even know what that is okay so yeah uh but I mean that baked tofu dish I mean we did a very

1:06:24video uh where where I showed how to do this this particular tofu dish it's on YouTube somewhere but uh yeah so there's um yeah I'm pretty basic when it comes to tofu I it's not something that I even eat all that often I mean I do I love tofu but I don't um seem to make a lot of tofu dishes I mean I do make some very basic stir fries with it on occasion uh in in in yeah the B you know if I have access to an oven uh I will bake some tofu because that's always nice and then you can use that for a variety of

1:07:04things if you want to make sandwiches or so yes it is it is very good that and other recipes are in the touring vegans which are um recomended yes yeah there's a lot there's a lot of recipes now granted a lot of that stuff is you know things that you could do on a rice cooker or an instant uh a lot of what I do cooking wise now is just revolved around those devices because I bring those things on the road with me because I I mean you have to be able to just throw a bunch of stuff into a pot and hit go and then start doing

1:07:43your day often when you're you know I don't have time to be super Gourmet about things when I'm on the road so often it is something like oh beans and rice with vegetables just done up in ADV in various ways we're going to use Indian spices today or we'll use more of a Mexican Vibe or a creole Vibe you know so yeah but it's all the same kind of stuff so what food Staples do you bring with you um on tour like in terms of not just the food but also the actual like tools yeah yeah so um it's the instant pot a massive space consideration in

1:08:22which case I will at least bring one of those tiny um uh rice cookers that you could probably get at Target or Walmart or something like that uh so I will bring one one or one of the other um and then I will bring oats with me I'll bring rice with me and I'll bring lentils just because lentils can cook just as fast as like brown rice but those end up being my Staples and then from that on I will uh get fruit and veggies and you know and that's and I'll I might bring some I might make a spice blend because I'm not going to bring like a cabinet full of

1:09:03spices so the food will get a little monotonous on the road for myself but I I I just don't care because I I prefer to stay you know doing the vegan thing and I want to have control over uh you know sod levels and I don't add oil to my food so if you go to restaurants you're going to get a lot of oil in your food uh so I eat a very particular way uh due to health reasons you know health goals and to to stay in a certain way I'm trying to avoid heart disease which is very common uh especially with men in my

1:09:44family and especially at my age so I really am doing my best to keep cholesterol levels down and avoiding a lot of saturated fat in in sodium so anyway yeah I a monotonous sort of diet when I'm on the road in order to kind of conserve space not bring a lot of stuff with me uh and not to also not have to spend a whole lot of time doing any sort of preparation well imagine it also frees up your your mental bandwidth so you don't really have to think about it too much you know yeah true I mean I'm not going to compare myself to Einstein but

1:10:26I guess I'll compare my you know but from what I heard he wore the same outfit every day so when you don't have to think when you don't have um I think there was a term for this when it was like Choice fatigue or something like that uh you know you can you can really of uh wear yourself out I I suppose trying to constantly create all this tremendous variety I I don't think that we need tons and tons of variety when it comes to to health and nutrition I think that I mean sure some might argue for the gut microbiome to have a variety of

1:11:03different types of fiber down there and and that makes some sense but uh I think that you can still be pretty healthy eating the same few things every day so yeah this is a really cool question from oh oh yeah yeah um so Zach Weiss is asking um what advice would you have for someone wanting to transition to a diet ah okay cool um I would say first of all find a few recipes that you enjoy um and uh I would read a few books I anything I I really Dr McDougall I've been reading his books for a while now and uh I really recom

1:11:54recommend what he has to say I I think that there's a lot of logic there's a lot of science behind what he has to say and um I think that he can he can put it in a way that is digestible for someone who doesn't have like some biochemistry background um so yeah I would I would check out books by Dr McDougall and I would um moment sorry getting a message there um and uh find a few recipes that you really enjoy and just start there like I would I would try to figure out like what do you like for breakfast for me it's pretty much the same thing every day um

1:12:40eat and I'll add frozen berries and banana and maybe on occasion some sort of like either walnuts or flax seeds or something like that and I usually have like cinnamon in it and it's pretty basic that's just it that's breakfast every pretty much every day occasionally I might make a tofu scramble or something like that or or a breakfast burrito using you know tofu and just various vegetables and and doing that up in a skillet and then wrapping it in a so uh so that's generally what I do for breakfast and then you know just find something that you could do for lunch and dinner that you really enjoy and

1:13:20just you know figure out a few recipes if you have even five or six recipes under your belt or even less in some cases you'll probably do just fine um I I find that the social element of being vegan or plant-based ends up being the thing that's the real challenge I think feeding yourself as long as you're somewhat Savvy in the kitchen and you could do at least like I know how to boil rice or I know how to you know make mashed potatoes or something like that if as long as you know a few basic things things that are going to be the foundation of your meal

1:13:56um you should be all right I think the social angle ends up being like a bit more of the tricky uh part of this to through yeah for sure as uh I think one of the things I love about um Anthony Bourdain he talks about just how eating is part of socialization there's a sort of tribal connection you know that we all have around eating and being in the kitchen together so yeah yeah no it's a great way to bond it's a great way to express yourself I mean cooking is an art as well I mean sometimes you know even if it's even if it's yeah I'm throwing a

1:14:35bunch of stuff in a pot because even people that are you know chefs and everything like that I mean I've I've heard interviews and they'll be like ah sometimes I'm just so busy that all I'm doing is just making you know a quick pasta with marinara and maybe you know their way of jazzing it up is oh I grilled some broccoli and I threw that there whatever the case may be so uh I think uh I agree with that um so uh couple a couple things um one um I haven't mentioned this yet but um if y'all want to learn more about um John you can go to John siren.com that's

1:15:22j n s i.com that has all of his Social Links it also has a link to the touring vegan the book that he wrote um so like you can you can check out all the things on there um and and stay connected and I think you also have a contact so if people um want to contact you for drumming and and lessons and things like that they can contact you there right John yeah yeah my Gmail account's there um I'm pretty good about answering you know even if someone DMS me on Instagram or or Facebook Facebook and things like that you know I generally can

1:15:56answer uh questions there too yes um second thing um wari guns from Algeria was saying hi um and just wanted to say hi back and we absolutely would love it to to return to Algeria and sending a lot of Love Your Way um we're also getting um some love from Yolanda um oh hey yes um she had some questions um one of them was was um uh what has been one of the best shows that you've had outside of the US uh okay um I'm always going to remember just about every show that I've done in Moscow to be perfectly honest um there's something about uh those

1:16:53shows I think I think this was at IMX uh even our final headlining show there was just out of control I mean um just the way that that you know the people are that come to the shows they're just so enthusiastic um you know their was you know really just took the show to a whole another level um uh you know the only way to describe I can't really describe it too well I mean but you know it's one of those things where you have to sort of experience it to understand uh but I can think of other gigs that I've really enjoyed uh but yeah certainly certainly

1:17:38those Moscow um uh where else I mean we I've definitely hit some really exotic and interesting regions where maybe it was just all of that mixed in there really got me excited exited like you know being in yasala Finland you know which I've always had an interest in Finland because my dad's side of the family is from there so uh you know playing shows they're always you know you get like some sort of emotional or spiritual whatever you want to call it connection to to I guess sort of our Origins and knowing that a good you know part of I guess the gene pool that I you know came from you know

1:18:24uh was was in Finland I guess getting to finally experience Finland especially in the winter time you know because I always had the these ideas of oh wow this is look at this country that's so far north it's got to be freezing and like covered in ice and and that was really exciting to me so you know being up there in the middle of the winter and it's just completely Frozen and then walking on a frozen lake near the venue uh that was really exciting too so um but yeah I mean there there's been so many Fantastic shows though I don't even know I there was a show I did as well in

1:18:57Sal Paulo Brazil with Information Society that was really intense and awesome and I just remember you know the crowd just kind of broke through the barricades and then was just sort of surrounding the band on stage and we just we did the show Even and there's people standing this close to me as I'm drumming just like yelling so I mean like you have crazy moments it felt like a punk rock show but there was you know several thousand people in this outdoor you know stage area you know was it's pretty pretty intense but having that kind of energy was was sort of fun too it was scary because you're like I

1:19:35don't know what's gonna happen you know there's I mean they just smashed they literally smashed through the the barricades and they were hanging out with us but everyone was respectful like you know like no one was like just then jumping on my drums or something like that they kept enough of a distance I suppose so that I could perform but uh yeah that was cool that's pretty amazing and I have to say like you know from from going from your early live show days with inep in medium to like that moment I mean that's such a jump right like amazing you know jump even though you come from the same

1:20:12you know roots and like you were saying it feels very punk rock but there's still that love and passion that's like right there you know yeah I mean you know and I was describing some of these big shows with these huge crowds but I mean like I do I really like the energy of yeah those punk I mean those punk rock shows are what shaped me you know so I like playing on the floor for instance so if I'm ever in this situation which will sometimes happen you'll be on the road and then you get booked at some strange venue that isn't even a venue really and

1:20:46and then that might even be the setup and it's like oh wow this is like some weird Oddball show on the tour and and just being in a situation like that where uh the crowd is sort of surrounding you and and I I I like that as a as a drummer I don't I mean you know one thing that's kind of bad about doing some of these Mega huge gigs you know is is yeah especially as a drummer they might be like a good 50 feet away from me or something like that and so it's like even though you're feeling this powerful exciting like thunderous

1:21:20drum you know like you hit the piure on and it's just like boom and you could you could feel it shooting off wherever you know the back of the room and I don't know that's exciting but there you know but feeling people's energy and having it like really close while you're doing it is is also quite fun so yeah anyway I like it all I I do too I feel like it's just like when you find the joy and the love in live music it's just across the board it always kind of feels like enjoy yeah I mean it's you know I mean I'd be lying to say that I haven't had

1:21:59moments where I'm like oh God this gig's gonna maybe suck you know because nobody showed up or or whatever um you know you have to kind of pull yourself out of that mindset because you know I can recall a couple of badass shows that I saw as a kid where maybe there was like six of us in the room or something like that but the band still delivered the goods as if it was a packed room and it didn't seem contrived or anything either it just seemed very genuine and um and I have to remember that as a person who's performing too that yeah you know I'll

1:22:30probably play in front of six people again at some point you know I'm sure they'll you know there's definitely been gigs even in my recent past that have not been well attended so uh and yeah you got to just you know if you are struggling with it as a performer it's good to just kind of be like all right let's break it down like you know I'm I'm getting to perform music for a living and I'm getting to to you know share this experience with the people that are here let's just let's have a good time let's not think oh my God the promoter's going to hate us and we'll

1:23:00never get booked here again and all these other you know kind of poisonous thoughts that might be entering your mind you know it's you know you at a certain point you have to kind of push that stuff away and and I guess deliver the goods to the people that are there and and really try to enjoy the moment too because there's also nothing worse if you're like someone watching the group you know in the group you could tell the band's just like over it and they're you know which I I'm sure someone has seen me out there being like uh you know because we're human and once

1:23:29in a while you you let the negativity get to you yeah yeah it's true it's yeah I think that it is it is a m it's sometimes just a matter of really just presently checking in and being like all right let's keep myself in check here um remember the big picture you know yeah yeah absolutely sorry I'm having to keep switching my airpods cuz they just yeah don't stay alive all good well well I you know in in terms of like um any pieces of wisdom that you could share with other aspiring musicians or even something that you would share with younger John um maybe

1:24:13it could be both um or the same thing like what what wisdom would you share um the first thing that came to mind is uh I I guess I look at my I look at the areas where I could use Improvement I just can't help but think about trying to improve certain things so uh I would say learn to be disciplined and organized because it's going to take you know it's going to take some of that to really lift this off the ground you know whatever it is that you're trying to do um it's but don't let that kill the joy so if you can sort of I don't want to say

1:25:00mindlessly do some of the some of that but you know there's certain things about being a musician that I'm not exactly you know pumped about like I don't really like marketing myself I don't like you know I have a I struggle with social media and things like that it's I don't I don't I don't enjoy doing that too much I mean I I I like it sometimes but then there's other times right you know you're you know you can get a little obsessed or one can or I can I don't know uh you know oh my God I didn't get enough likes today everybody hates me

1:25:34you know it just you know so so anyway but that all said just you know it's like we got to do certain things we got to get the word out there that we're doing something I can't just be like this is all happening you know and you have to figure it out you know we have you know so there might be areas that maybe you're not interested interested in or maybe you know like me as a younger person I wasn't interested in practicing but uh you know if you want to be able to play certain types of music or whatever you've gota you've got to practice and you've got to have a

1:26:04little bit of discipline so I would tell young John to um to learn how to be organized and a little bit more disciplined uh and this is where it becomes kind of an interesting balance because yeah you don't want to kill the fun and the excitement of just of just kind of flying by the C your pants because I think that there's there's a beauty to in a in a in a joy to just simply being very open to various things and and not um uh getting behind the kit and only doing these like oh my God I have to play double base at 210 BPM for this

1:26:41song and just every day you're just you know that's all you're doing you have to kind of you know always maybe sometimes keep yourself in check and remember what brought you to music anyway and that will happen especially if you get like really obsessed about something and you're you're doing all the hard work to make something happen you you know you don't want to lose the joy and the Innocence you know put on a record you know even if you know I'm maybe I'm talking to someone who's a little bit older that might now who might have you know done all the hard work and maybe

1:27:15they're starting to to get out there and do stuff and it's like oh my God this is really difficult to do this and to really you know gain a following and have people listen to what it is that I want to say and um I would say yeah put on some music that got you into it to to begin with you know sometimes you need a night where you're just hanging out and like going through an album or something or maybe you have a long drive ahead of you and just like going front to back on some record that you know you just always listen to as a kid so I think

1:27:48that's really yeah I don't know if I answered that completely oh yeah beautifully I think it really is going back going back to the roots is just nothing like feeding the feeding the heart and soul that way absolutely yeah and you know and if you're a songwriter you know experiment a bunch you know it's what you know spend the time to maybe maybe have a time where you're not um uh focused on maybe songwriting but learning some gear a bit I know you know maybe maybe separating that a bit like oh today I'm not I'm not writing I'm just trying to understand how to use Pro

1:28:29Tools or something a little bit more like maybe I'm I'm trying to learn how to you know because that can really be fatiguing as well too and I know I remember that being a struggle of mine when I was trying to write music I would hit so many roadblocks because I just didn't understand something with the devices I was using to try to you know record things into you know like I would hit some sort of a roadblock um and uh that always sucked and it would kill the creativity for the moment so maybe just having days where you're like all right I'm gonna tackle

1:29:02how to um I don't know edit drums or something like that so if I'm programming some drums I can or or whatever you're doing you know it could be anything just you know just something about understanding how the gear Works a little bit more so yeah yeah just taking the time to take little simple small steps instead of feeling like you're having to conquer that mountain all at once absolutely yeah yeah yeah well um I want to thank you for joining us y'all this is thank you all for tuning in with us um this is our very very first episode um on the tour outter Channel um

1:29:45if y'all do YouTube if you want to subscribe to the channel we're going to be doing um our next interview we're going to be doing these every other Sunday um at 3 p.m. um the next guest is going to be Jared Christensen from the metal band archaic um sharing his experiences with being a live musician and and being on tour um and um thank you all for your amazing thoughtful questions for your wonderful kind loving support um we've been you know so grateful um from all of our communities who have supported us through the years uh making this possible um John thank you so much for taking the time and and

1:30:24for sharing your amazing self and your incredible wisdom um are there any final thoughts that you want to share out with um I'm not sure I mean yeah just uh you know I hope to see people when I'm on the road I hope people continue to support live music because then that allows me to continue to to do what I love to do which is you know perform for people and travel and um yeah know it really it really helps that there's people out there that that that support so much and and you know I mean it's the it's the cliche thing that you hear from musicians like we

1:31:05appreciate you buying the merch and buying the concert tickets because that's basically what you know keeps this this train going you know so yeah I appreciate the support everyone's given me this far and and hopefully it continues happen because I'd rather not be doing something different with my life I hope to continue to to do this and grow and develop as a musician and continue to to hit a lot of these cities that I go to and hopefully hit some different ones too absolutely absolutely I think that it's you know um like you were saying it's it's all all of the support makes it possible um and in small levels and

1:31:48big levels like um it's it's all felt and I I think I speak for all of us when yes we would love to see what's in store for you as well um in the coming years because I feel like you've been such an inspiration on on all the levels um and you continue to evolve So yeah thank Youk you yeah awesome well thank you all so much thank you all so much for for tuning in for our first tour router Unwritten rules of the road and um sending lots of love hope you have a wonderful rest of your Sunday and an amazing week bye everyone by