Jennifer Parkin and Eric Gottesman!, in full

1:01hi friends uh this is Tash Cox you are watching Unwritten rules of the road um thank you all so much for joining us today um we have wonderful friends on our episode today um the amazing Jennifer Parkin and Eric goddman um of Arya and everything goes cold um and and many other projects actually those are just a few to name um uh thank you all so much for joining us today yeah thank you for having us yeah thanks so um just to to kick things off um I I actually um I Eric I don't remember when you and I actually met but I remember I think it was when I was

1:44playing in mankind is obsolete yeah definitely yeah uh it it I think it may have been the LA show in 2008 with 16 volt and bellam morte and ah yes yes we playing it I think we're playing at the Key Club some place doesn't exist anymore and uh yeah and I think it was we were everything goes cold was the bottom of the bill and Mankind is Obsolete and I think maybe I already knew JN was John maybe already playing with the dismantled at that point yes yeah yes so that that yeah that may actually even have been how we got the show yeah that's probably when

2:23we first met yeah I think so and um I this is actually my first time to to get to official meet you Jenna but um I've I've heard so much about you and your amazing music um so it's it's such a privilege to get to chat with you today yeah awesome thanks nice to meet you having me on randomly here it's great yes yes no it I love that it worked out this way um just jumping right in um we're we're getting some questions in our chat um thank you all so much um uh so this is from r47 uh and a question for Jen um I've been an Arya

3:00fan since 2008 when I was living in Siberia I'm happy to see you are still musically active um can you share some of your memories of your 2006 Russian tour oh wow yes yeah um we played Russia I was just starting out I think uh flicker had just come out we just had debris and Flicker and I wasn't with Eric didn't come on that one but Eric's been playing live with me since 200 five yeah uh but not on that tour I had a different lineup but we were book for three shows in Russia I think it was Moscow Saratov and Samara um but unfortunately one show had to be I've

3:39never cancelled a show and that was the one time because the um the flight between they're pretty far aart was cancelled for oh and I'm blanking now because that was quite a while ago it was either Samara or sarov was cancelled and so we slept on an airport floor and you know had to wait and reschedule to the next location and then took the train all the way back to M it was quite the adventure but the Russian fans yeah we you know I've only gotten to play Russia that one kind of the two shows but um really energetic fans we had a great time everyone was really nice um

4:16yeah thanks for that question brings back memories oh that's amazing um I I have to ask actually um what was your first International uh tour or show um and and what I mean like what did you notice the difference between you know playing here um I guess in North America because you're a Canadian artist so between North America and flying across the pond so to speak that's for me right yeah okay yes yes well even being in the US is international to mean right so yeah my first show was uh my first show internationally in the US was in Seattle where I was getting my start with area

4:57working with um uh Sean in from gliss and and Mike wymer that was our very first tour we did with started with rais in black um not North America oh my gosh um what was my first show I think question didn't you like a Belgium show or something like yeah oh no uh the first International show was uh whales um Cardiff whales for interzone Fest in uh 2004 that was my over the pond yeah over the pond yes uh well it's it's it's interesting I asked that question because um it's definitely different when you tour um using like a a van or or a you know a

5:43tour vehicle of some sort versus flying um like do you find logistically like that you do things a little bit differently yeah um I have not done a lot of tour like I usually just take the flight to get to the place and then we're in Vans um if we're with a bigger van like we toured with BMV and then it's a bus so that's it's a lot different but logistically uh yeah we haven't done a lot where you try to fly places because it's you just have so much gear and you know I think I like to get fly to the location you're you're put you get

6:17everything loaded into the trailer and then you just hit the road in a van so yeah it's it's always a lot of logistics actually the worst is the the most difficult is the US just because it's so massive to like you're driving for some of them are like eight hours a day right so oh yeah the uh I you know the first thing that I remember noticing about uh going to Europe the first time like I'd already I think I think both of us had a lot of you know a lot of Flyin where you know you know we're coming into someplace maybe our gear isn't at even

6:50early on but the first time I went to Europe was with cyclon 9 in 2005 well that wasn't a full tour the first time I toured Europe was in ' 07 and oh no that's not true was5 what this is 20 years ago who knows anyway but really sounding like yeah we're really sounding professional here the thing that I noticed though that um was that yeah the uh you know the Europeans be like oh God we've got a two-hour Drive ahead of us better get ready and of course you know compared to the US where you know we uh sometimes not not on our last tour but on every

7:22other tour I've ever been on at some point there's a 15-h hour drive where you've got to like get off stage and you know drive straight from San Francisco to Salt Lake City or something like like that I like the area the last tour we I was so easy it was great I organized these tours on purpose because you always get so sick on the road and everything so the long drives kill you when we did the last the battlecry tour um it it's a five-week tour but we never had to drive over like I make sure there's days off and everything so so you're welcome for yeah yeah no was that

7:52was that was good I I you I think you you had ay that was like no drives over was it no drives over five hours the max that we will do to get to that next show just it's just so draining and exhausting for everyone to do a van call in the morning for that so because we've done one with I think project pwor and like and it's not like any sometimes it happens but you get in the van like we've got nine hours we hit the road at 6: am and you know we have to be there no stop for pee no no food yeah on I

8:22don't think we had any that were like that were brutal on that Pitchfork I was on Mike wymer we always play Mike wymer in fact even if he's not on the tour you can still probably blame him he's he's had something to do with it I hope he's watching hi Mike we're missing our our other tour mate so it's yeah yeah also hi stew if you're watching ASD ASD yeah um actually no it's interesting that you bring up the the drive time uh because I feel like every band has like kind of their like logistical limit like we we also have like our our cap on like

8:59for I mean mean first of all like how many hours in a day that we're willing to drive and also how many days in a row um out of curiosity do y all have a like a kind of a rough limit on how many days in a row that you're willing to go or like how many days off a week I I tried that um but the US just had the clusters of cities I I don't like to do more than five shows in a row like I just for my voice um it always I'll I'll either get sick or I'll wear it out um completely

9:28so I need a day off after five and we've done ones with um well I I T the cruise shads where it's an intense one and and sometimes like they would do I've done nine and one nine shows one time I think it was 11 and it's just uh and I know a lot of bands do that right because every day off is uh another right so um it makes total sense but you just wear yourself down so badly so yeah on our 2012 Tour we had um the uh well the routing was not to our liking uh and it was it was really rough and we really

10:02all started suffering from that and I think everyone it was it really felt like everyone was suffering at the same time if one band got sick everybody got sick oh yeah and but also if one person's voice was wearing out everybody's voice is wearing out and I think that uh I would I would like to go back in time and you know prioritize uh everybody's well-being a little bit more on some of those earlier tours so this last tour that we did it was I we were very privileged to be able to make some of the decisions we made I think uh in terms of that stuff the you

10:35know the shorter drives and not too many shows in a row and all that um with the experience comes like kind of what can we kind of flurge on a little more of like days off when you've done it so long you're like our health is more important than that one uh one show that we or city that we'd kill ourselves to drive to so we just didn't and we still had a really a good route oh yeah yeah we had a we had a great I also think that um we probably playing playing missing those cities it sucks that we didn't get to play for those fans but um

11:09I think that b we had a lot of fans travel and I think that they got a better show than they would have yeah yeah absolutely I I mean it's interesting because like I think that's something that sometimes people um don't realize like how truly taxing it is on the body um to travel and to play shows every day um you know I was I was wondering actually um for both of y'all um do like are there particular things that you do while you're on the road um to help take care of your health um and okay second part to the question um both of you are

11:44vocalists um when you do have those days that your vocals are worn down are there any tricks that you do to try to resurrect the vocals or help take care of that who wants to go first uh I'll go first I'll probably have less on this than Jen actually um I don't have anything that I do for my health I just get sick and that's it because I'm terrible about um you're GNA pushing through he can push through I'm I'm a baby like yeah yeah I'm I'm I'm very much a we're going to push through and those three days I'm going to have a rest oh that'll be great um but for my

12:18voice I got a couple things uh one thing is there is a uh there's like this herbal throat spray thing that I swear by it's called singer Saving Grace uh you he gave me a love it too it's yeah um that stuff it's uh it's it's definitely more of a I mean it's a topical solution that you spray into your throat and it it creates the illusion that you're okay when you're not so it's a good solution if you've got one more show left you know and you just can't quite make it it's great it's not so good if you're in the middle of a

12:51tour because it's likely to make you sing more strongly than you probably should and possibly hurt yourself um but other than that you know vocal warm-ups obviously like are a big thing um the other thing this is a a much more recent thing you know I we had a everything goes called a very long period where we didn't do very much and giving my voice a really serious break like not talking too much not singing at all and like for like a few days at a time actually like before you know um before we had anything serious to do really even just going into rehearsals turned out to be

13:29um like we had we had a couple months of intensive rehearsals and I gave myself like a week before that and that turned out to be really really helpful and when I came back into it it was better so my side uh before tours I go into pretty uh I work out a lot so I I try to get like my stamina and everything up and when I practice more I'm the opposite if I I start practicing more before the shows because I feel like I got to thicken like I like like if haven't Stang live in a while um I have a softer voice than him live

14:03anyways um so I kind of keep kind of the more I sing the more it's like the muscle and that's what I do before um yeah and then on the road I I know there was like this period of time where you know it was all about cupcakes on an area tour like all Sugar Sugar cupcakes and and one tour seriously was that it was just people were bringing us they one tour okay one decade of Tours now we we said like I I love cupcakes and sugar got a sweet tooth and so people would like every show they like box of cupcakes and we're like oh my God but I

14:38think the last tour my it's my other keyboard is Sarah and I we would uh we actually said please no more and the past two tours I think I I need to eat healthy I eat a lot of good stuff on the road but uh and I didn't get sick for a couple tours but it's just going to happen if someone gets sick and one thing I do push through if I get sick like I've never canceled a show but I played shows pretty sick um but U what happens with me is it the one time I got sick it actually put me down into a bit

15:09of a lower register so it didn't sound bad because my voice is quite kind of high anyway so it just sounded more grally but it's I don't love doing it I hate pushing because you're afraid you're just gonna that one show is gonna like it's gone that's it yeah I guess I should throw on one more thing I like I have um I have classical training uh for voice and so um I think I tend to do I tend not to do things or at least be aware when I am doing things that are worse for my throat worse in my voice and getting into good habits I think

15:40with the way that you sing is possibly more important than almost anything else you can do um so you know and definitely obviously in you know in industrial music and things like that there are a lot of people who are going out there and you know yeah do you know doing a bunch of screaming and you can do that and have it work but you know uh uh having more awareness of where your limits are and and you know having good habits about how you sing is g to do more for you than anything else possibly could and he sang back up for for me on the last UK tour yes we

16:12have very similar voices so it worked out nicely usually um Sarah who we're talking about she does the backing vocals for her area and then we couldn't bring her to the UK and I look at Eric like and and some of them are like they're they're quite high but he he fited well he's classic is TR I'm not um he did an awesome job so just saying he he sings on on those tours as well that's awesome yeah no it's I mean I think it definitely helps to have that level of awareness because like both of you were saying um sort of I guess in

16:42the back of your head knowing like if I push too much I I really can't hurt myself so yeah um just gonna take a moment here um rodeny is saying how are you so awesome Jennifer and and and why do you put up with all of Eric shenanigans wait can you repeat the question sorry sorry um how are you so awesome Jennifer and why do you put up with all of Eric Shenanigans oh let me tell you I don't we have our our our bickers and everything like fake you know we've been friends for so long so um thank you I yes ARA awesome yeah really I'm awesome

17:20that's the acronym um but uh yeah no it's nice to see you Kevin Eric and I are like yeah we go way back we're great friends and we've been kept together all these years mostly by Kevin's enthusiasm been at the front row of like you know almost every show we've ever played no where it is how does Kevin be so how are you so awesome Kevin for a dumping up and down he sings louder than I do sometimes it it helps me remember the lyrics so yeah that's great oh I love that yeah um he's saying I remember the Cardiff show and um to it and he's

17:54from the US so that's amazing oh that is awesome um also asking how many songs um do you have for the new album if you're able to to share that question um I would say seven are mostly complete but not fully the final tracks and production not laid down and I'm working H like I'd say another three or mid process of being written um I structured them that way I just have to write them fully first before um so I I want I don't know how many tracks to do it used to be 13 on all the first four was my lucky number but that's quite a lot but 13 is my

18:33lucky number but uh I I usually will do 10 to 13 Max on a on a release so I'm getting pretty close but yeah I I'm pushing through I hopefully I am done by the summer and hopefully it comes out by the end of the year so well actually um H how do you know when you're done like is it an Intuition or do you just feel like you know I mean you mentioned a set number but like like at at what point yeah are you just like you know what this album is complete yeah it's usually uh a set number of tracks that I and I

19:08kind of know the various process of of progress of each um and I think it through too like I actually am like okay I've got enough like there's the Stompy ones like because I like to balance the albums I've got a ballad or two I've got a midtempo pop like um and it's not so formulaic I'm making it sound but it's the Styles I like to do and that I am good at and seem be part of like just the area repertoire so if I kind of feel like I've got enough finished of a good balance for the next release and it's either 10 to 13 I go that's complete

19:44good yeah I mean it's I think it's always interesting because um you know some people I I talk to like you know they have a predetermined number um and then sometimes it's sort of like they have like they end up writing much much more material that goes into to the next album so yeah do that I never have enough I I don't when I'm done I'm done there's no uh I I on my my way of writing songs I don't finish it it like I I work on it like it's like I'm molding clay until it's like even if I have to change something about it I

20:18don't really have half songs that are waiting for the next album that's just my I know a lot of artists do I know it's very common I when I'm working on it it's going to be worked out until it's a final area song yeah yeah my my thing has always been if it's worth finishing it's going to get finished yeah I feel like I I imagine you know somewhere there are like 500 unreleased costic albums on Matt finale's various hard drives but like I I can't imagine either of us doing that no so um we have a question um and I'm so sorry if I mispronounce I am the

20:49queen of mispronunciation so bear with me um Jesus bow um is asking um says hello Jennifer um have you heard of the German festival wave Gothic Tren and would you like to perform there thanks for the signed vinyl yes are you inviting us and booking us we're there just I'm glad you're online thank you for um yeah um yes I have heard of that Festival it's one of the biggest ones uh longest running ones I'm aware of uh but no I've never been booked for those type of German festivals and I would love to it just never seems to happen or yeah but maybe you know after

21:32maybe doing area for 20 something years maybe I'll get on be great I've been pushing for a Mainland Europe well I I have played it a couple times but yes he he's pushing for Mainland Europe and we're we're actually like we're hanging out this weekend and we're actually thinking about that seriously so if there's people from uh Europe watching this which there are um yeah I think we we're going to plan that because I we keep doing the US and the UK because that's the two m major markets but I think it would be really good to kind of expand out well major markets for us uh you

22:05know I think yeah I think most people probably think that you know uh Mainland Europe is a major Market but I think because we haven't done it before and it's now been so long we don't we don't have the infrastructure built up I guess uh to to do it as easily like I've played there I opened on there like I I went with a project Pitchfork I've been there at VMV and Cru Shadow so I've always been the support act but not on a festival so yeah but it'll be good uh I played tring twice with cyclon 9 back in the day and uh obviously as most people

22:36who were familiar with cycl 9 would imagine it was chaotic but uh but I had a great time uh that second time in 2007 was also I think my first time playing with brindle uh and that was really fun uh it's you know that Festival is huge and there's just so much to do and it's so surreal being in a you know in an entire city that is just like you know nothing but goth people who are way you know dressed up way more outlandishly than I was at my craziest in my teenage years I think that's I mean it's it's interesting because you're talking about

23:10um you know the the festivals versus um act you know shows um and so I mean do you have like a a preference um both are awesome um there's pros and cons to both for sure um I don't know I like what are your thoughts on festiv versus just oneoff shows yeah I'll go first um I I do love touring but festivals uh a lot of us have day jobs right we work nine to5 sorry to shatter the illusion that we're not class um now festivals they they reach a larger audience because the the lineups are usually so diverse that I'm enjoying festivals a lot more than I used to I

23:56think and I'm finding them I you you need to to take less time off of work you're brought in and you just hit a a bigger crowd it's like one show and then you're done and you you've really only had to take like your weekend away which um at first I was like oh it's so much work just to get out there for one show and and I still need work visas for most countries because being Canadian um but now I'm like really enjoying festivals so tours are way more work at this point yeah you go ahead all right well I was going to say um

24:29I love touring with area and I love playing festivals with basically all the other bands that I play with okay interesting well so here's my reason um here's my reason uh touring the requirements are so different and also area when we did that US tour I I got to tell you I didn't think I was ever going to do another full tour for the rest of my life and when Jen proposed doing the US tour in 2023 I was like that sounds crazy and I didn't know how it was going to go but it was very much one of those things where we now all have sort of the

25:02resources and experience and also the fan base that we were able to do things really really comfortably and like every show on that tour was good and we were able to we were able we were able to take it easy and uh you know take our it was by far the most relaxed tour I've ever been on but we also had good turnouts every night we didn't have to we didn't have to spend a lot of time doing a lot of the annoying little tour things that um that you have to do and I mean not that I would have to do this with ARA because I'm not Jennifer or

25:33Mike but like we don't have to spend a lot of time hassling promoters for details or you know or making sure that you know the Facebook events were up and things like that in the way that I think we would in a smaller band that was having to work with less experienced people or uh you know things like that and also for me I didn't have to do any organizational stuff whatsoever I literally just had to show up and um and that was really great but uh on the other side of things um especially since uh you know the end of covid lockdowns I have been going to and performing at

26:11Festival after Festival after festival the there is a now I think separate infrastructure for festivals that is fantastic and there's so many great festivals to play and fact is I can go to a festival and as a fan I can see Tiny bands that could never afford to tour um but they can afford to fly in for one show and you know uh I think that we're going to see uh more and more of of that kind of thing happening and I think that's good and uh I hope that people don't feel I hope that people don't feel too overwhelmed by it uh I I

26:47think that sometimes uh is is a thing because there are a lot of sort of sometimes kind of similar events but uh I don't know I everything goes cold is playing three festivals coming up we've got resistance dark force and uh my favorite Terminus sorry guys Terminus is always my favorite every everybody knows that but um but no they're all great festivals that I've been to before and I've played at before actually I think I played both of those uh Terminus and I've played all three of those therea actually um but it's great because we were able to you know our rehearsal schedules are such we

27:22were able to sort of rehearse like it's tour and you know do all the a lot of The Upfront work for those ahead of time but they're also space out enough that we can have a little bit of difference we're going to have a guest guitarist for a dark force Festival our friend Ryan Lynch is stepping in for Jamie cron Ander who's a regular guitarist uh Jamie is also com Christ and he has his own project Sol zanti uh and he's gonna be off with comie Crist in Europe right after resistance so we're yeah but we have enough space in between all these things that we can sort of get creative

27:51and interesting with it but without the pressure of having to be a big enough band to support ourselves on tour or to find a bigger band to tour with that you know uh may have different priorities than us and it's as both a fan and a performer I think the festivals are you know especially North America are in great shape right now so yeah go to festivals okay I want to add one thing about that because you said the organization Eric I I do a lot the organization for the area tours this is like off topic about festivals versus I for a tour like how much work a tour

28:29takes I work for months like with the logistics and I actually don't have a booking agency it's just myself and my drummer Mike who actually is a Booker but I did no no the battlecry tour was a lot mostly me he was on other tours um and I do I take care of like you know the merch printing um organizing everything uh work fees is anything I need to do and it takes months and then once I hit the road I was talking to you about this earlier I said I put so much effort in and I I have a merch person we've got the band once I'm on the road

29:05I my brain shuts down because I now have to focus on the shows like singing getting sleep trying to stay healthy um I shut down and just rely on everyone else so I actually like my brain goes to Mush and so everyone else has to take care of the logistics like the driving like because it takes so much I realize I'm like kind of that's when I said I'm a baby on the road on the road but it's it's because of all the work that goes in beforehand so it's like behind the scenes like I'm just like she's always like that it's on tour yeah I I should throw in by

29:40the way the quality of show that you get at a on a tour at its best is better I will say because when the band has been out and we you know the timing like our our show on a tour is an hour and a half you'll get so much of the show a f sets usually 40 45 but again that's something thing where it's like for area that's great we could play this hour and a half show we're not g to play an hour and a half show where everything goes cold in pretty much any situation because we're a tiny band right so if we were on tour

30:12we'd be opening um so again you know as a tiny band it's great to do these festivals um but but you know with the area Tour by the time we're on like week three or whatever of that tour especially uh we have things are so locked in you know Sarah and I have like weird little you know weird little funky dance moves that we're making at each other or whatever and like you know all the inside jokes that are happening in our heads while we're on stage that are making us you know operate together uh that stuff is you are missing out on that when it's just festivals and that

30:44is great stuff absolutely I feel like that's that's I think that's kind of where some of the magic happens I mean it's all magical I think just to get to play live right but um yeah there's we call it T tight in our in our universe we're like oh I just love tour tight you know once you find that once you find that flow it feels like everything just kind of unlocks yeah yeah the first three like I'd say the first few shows are kind of sometimes just really awkward some can be nightmarish um they still put like the audience wouldn't know that but you

31:18haven't hit sorry audiences you haven't hit your stride yet so you're just like okay you you learn from each thing and then all a sudden you get like it just becomes like oh well machine and you're you're just in your groups absolutely um actually this okay so um I I was wondering for a band that is playing a festival for the first time um like what advice you would have um for them because you know it is a very vibe well my number one piece of advice would be expect the absolute worst from the soundcheck situation might you might not get one your first time yeah exactly

31:55I mean be ready to get literally no and have to get on stage and play and don't expect you know don't expect anything to work go with the flow you have to you have no choice uh have backup Solutions if there's something that you really need don't bring lighting or somebody's gonna you're going to get you know punched in the face by a lighting guy if you bring your own lighting um well maybe not if you're a big b but no yeah keep your Tech simple keep anything that have a backup cable right away because you might have to go on and it if it

32:24doesn't work right away it's going to cut into your set right so yeah and for the tech I um you know I was sort of notorious earlier in my career for having a lot of really complicated Tech stuff going on all the time and I guess the thing that I learned from that over playing so many festivals especially recently is if you have a complicated Tech need make sure that you know if there's something that's a priority so like an example might be uh you've got a drummer and your drummer needs a click track um and you know if you got something like that have backup

32:58options for everything um so for example you know maybe you're normally running an Ableton Live an Ableton Live is shooting your drummer or click track and you're doing all sorts of cool stuff with that but 75% of it you could technically perform without if you had to have a you know have like an MP3 player with a a splitter that goes left and right you've got a mono version of your tracks and you know and your drummer's click track and the other thing some emergency backup in case everything just goes to hell two computers and two different programs with your backing stuff right that is we

33:29we do that every time yeah two audio interfaces and more than anything else never have only one of any cable uh that is yeah the the worst things that I've ever seen happen to people on Festival stages are always like well we' got this one specialized USB cable and that's the thing that broke the interface is fine computer is fine everything else but there's this one weird cable that nobody else has or maybe it doesn't even seem that weird maybe it's just a midi cable but nobody else has a midi cable that's quite long enough for you know something so that's you know get those backups and

34:02it's important all the time but at a festival you know if you're on tour and something happens there's a pretty good chance that somebody can you know you can get a runner to go out to a store for you or something at a festival it's not going to happen so backs and then I'll add not Tech stuff but if it's your first time at a festival and you get you know you're talking maybe 25 30 minutes just um you know this is probably just no-brainer but start with your strongest and end with a very like your two strongest tracks that you think would catch the audience first and

34:33last like that's that's when they're going to see you CU they're like they want to check you out and then they want to come in next for their next favorite band so like end with a strong one yeah I always um I always like to do like intros and I always have to like train myself it's like no this is a festival don't do that oh yeah we cut we cut every song that's kind of not well because you have so so little time right so like if if you're I think we get pretty good set Links at festivals although actually I got to say for

35:02resistance uh I was pleased to find out it's like um other the headline is everybody's getting uh similar set times and it's a pretty generous resistance area well area headline but um yeah you got a I got a full yeah yeah we got a full set his area but um it everybody got pretty pretty good sets I was like it's funny Leon told me how much time we had and I was like and he was like you know I'm I'm really sorry about over I was like are you kidding me like it's like a headlining set for us yeah yeah that's so um yeah also you

35:31should usually avoid like taking a glass of red wine throwing it at the promoter and saying don't you know who I am before the set you got wait after or they don't it doesn't go well yeah no T temper tantum yeah do noted I know it's a problem for many of but I love the redundancy um advice I actually saw um bork perform at Coachella and both of her computers went out um yeah both of them and in this adorable accent she's like our computer is ill now so I will sing ballads I love that that's amazing and so everything was acoustic it was amazing I I I mean I love her electronic

36:17you know set it's incredible but just it was such a gift to get to you know experience the songs in that way so I mean talk about triple triple redundancy and it's like and put on a show I saw buor in like 1996 97 or something like that in LA and uh yeah she had she brought uh it was like the Icelandic string oet it was for um what was that album The Alum with silver background sorry well anyway but it's actually Festival related she brings the string octet and they all come in uh like tuxedos like they're sitting down and they're playing in LA in the middle of

36:55the summer and they were like I these guys was like their faces were melting off they were so sweaty it was terrible so you know choose choose appropriate clothing for the region that you're playing in ESP he wore a suit for area at resistance resistance yeah I was yeah I I was she's like I'm regretting My Life Choices I here I am in the little classic i' seen Covenant one too many times that year and it just you know it looked good it looked good yeah I played too many shows with Daniel Meer and then saw him in Covenant I was like I could do that I could look cool like Daniel

37:27um so we're getting a question uh from Montoya the best what's the best city to visit on a tour and why is it Tampa okay so David uh is uh he does make amazing cupcakes I just have to say that so I I'm not like swearing off all cupcakes I just uh they have to be more sparingly throughout the tour not although I met David on this last tour and you know I didn't add him on like social media until after that and now I know that he could have brought us ribs oh which he didn't and so I feel like I don't really know you know if we really

38:02got the full Tampa experience David we want to come back and visit Tampa no we will do um I don't want to say this but yeah we will do another US tour it's and we will visit Tampa and we can't wait to see you David and I met David because um I can't remember when I met David but we hung out a lot ARA played the The Goth Cruise uh twice and yeah had a great time meeting a lot of great people and a lot of them tend to be from Florida because that's where the cruise is from so yeah so it's good to see you thanks

38:30David I'll say something about Tampa actually uh Tampa is really interesting because it's some place that uh a lot of I think a lot of people that I know from elsewhere wouldn't think of as being uh a super great place to go play gothar Industrial Music but wow that scene really they really turned out for us and then we went to the castle afterwards which of course you know I've heard about for a million years and wow that is one of the one of the coolest nightclubs I've ever been to it was really they've got a great scene there a great Community uh shout out to Tom gold

39:02for doing everything that he does there uh really it was a really cool place to be and we got a lot of friends there now so a lot of people we know mooved there I had been to the castle before uh I'd been through on a few other tours and then I remember you we walked in and you said this club is like from a movie but yeah like yeah it's like it's like you know you see these movies that always have like these super cool sexy nightclubs and you're like that doesn't exist in real life was Tampa was the castle was close it was pretty

39:30expectations there you go yeah also I'm excited oh go ahead go ahead sorry I remember we walked into we're just telling memories like please we walked to the venue in Tampa it was like it was kind of out in the middle of nowhere and it's this it was like it looked like a barn and we walked in there and you said this place is way too big we're never going to be able to fill it oh crap I know and then you yeah it was fine though we had we had a great night I'm uh yeah yeah I'm always worried I don't know as the artists you're like you know

40:01can we pull this many people but we did and it was great yeah yeah um so uh this is actually a question from um in insomnia PhD um saying hello um hello to you um do you feel like the Touring game has changed in the years you have been doing this um recorded music consumption has changed with streaming does that change the way you approach live music not me personally um I think if anything we're getting better shows uh I've been doing it so long so I have more of a repertoire in a catalog and I used to just um be the support you know I think I'd say paid my

40:45dues kind of thing doing lots of supporting through the first decade I was doing music and then the past two two tours we fully headlined it and we're we're getting better and better crowds kind of worried cuz didn't know what to expect but yeah we we pulled it off so I and I don't change my approach to recording music except early on I did I did uh some of my earlier songs on my first two releases I would write songs like for six minutes they'd go on and on and on and then when we were having these opening slots I would only get like a 30 minute set and that's like

41:21what four songs cuz I the songs were just too long I'm like I need to tighten this up both for live shows but also just so it's not so repetitive and just catchier and like I just got better at writing songs um but it does help with live because I'm like yes okay you fit that in three minutes this that that like you can just pack more songs in when you do get a festival set and you're not stuck with like I can only play like three songs so that's my only change that I did and that was way earlier in my like music recording

41:49career but nothing's changed since I I still write the same way so um I think that uh there I I feel like I'm constantly hearing these people talking about like how oh either touring is impossible now or I I sort of pontificating about these things and I think you know touring changes every year touring changes locationally the changes that we're experiencing in the US are not the same as changes people are experiencing elsewhere and also um this is the real kicker yeah everything has changed for us over the course of 20 years but part of that is that the uh the Community has changed you know goth

42:29music is not in the same place now that it was 20 years ago um I think in a lot of ways it's better but also a lot of the people that would have been the most interested in seeing you know an area show or a you know I don't know how job or everything goes cold or cyclon 9 or any you know small bands through the big bands those people you know some of them you know a lot of them are older now and they may be maybe they're not going out to as many shows maybe they're not as keyed into hearing about things happening

42:56maybe they're you know uh or maybe they are they have more disposable income and they're more likely to go and the the changes in the community and especially the changes in you know Regional tastes and things like that are just as significant as these sort of Big C changes in you know the nature of touring um so it's I I think it's I've been trying not to mention this but I feel like it was the Daniel Graves rants about where he thinks touring is at are like all over the place and I feel like I'm listening to people arguing about him constantly and I think he's right about a lot of things

43:32and I I suspect that the person asking this question had that at least a little bit in mind uh and he is right about a lot of things but um you know a lot of the things that a small band experiences are very different than things that a big band experiences and ultimately you have to see for yourself and you also have to you know and how much you can see for yourself kind of depends on your budget uh you won't really know whether you're able to accomplish what you are setting out to accomplish on a tour until you try it so I wouldn't take

44:04anybody else's uh anybody else's takes on touring in general too seriously because their perspectives are going to be warped by their personal experiences yeah absolutely I I feel like tour each tour is so unique right like I I feel like you know not just um between artists but even in your own realm like I I always found that each tour is so unique and different um you might have some tours where you take some hits like we definitely did last year um and then you have tours where you're like wow that was amazing um and so yeah I think it's such a unique experience and and for a person that has

44:44never toured before um yeah and if it's something that you are called to do I think it's something that you absolutely should experience um there is nothing like the live music community yeah I uh I feel like I want to note by the way TSH of course that your band tour has toured so aggressively and um has done a lot of things that fall way outside of my own experience and I think they're worth noting in these kinds of conversations one of the things that I know that you guys do is you play a lot of like much much smaller markets and take a lot of uh big risks on longer

45:22tours that um in my mind I always think like oh well that's a big risk and it would cost a lot either it would be costly or uh you know whatever the results might you know might not be immediately palpable and then we you and I have talked about this before and clearly you know you go back to those markets a second time and the audience is quadrupled in size or whatever and it's you know and it was clearly worth it and I think that um if smaller bands are able to take those kinds of swings I think they're likely to see a lot of uh

45:53a lot more results that my experiences and Jen's experience may not may not cover well you made me think of something my one of my first my first like full us tours with the crw Shadows love those like what an opportunity it was but there we were out on the road for three and a half months and there was actually no end date at first to that tour like we kept picking up shows like that's how they did it and it's not really how I do it but I I can't really being not a native of us um but at the time we would we played like a city in

46:25Texas called College State like you know I have no idea where these places are you're playing like on a deck in a backyard and it's wild the the kids that came out though because they did say no nobody would come here like a b like bands like you and then the next time they might drive to the mega cities right so it's just like uh I don't do that I just can't uh financially or logistically be gone that long but I like um I respect that so much because I have done those types like two the the tours with them that that's how they tour so I do have some experience with

47:01that just not uh yeah what I do now yeah no I mean it's um I you know I I think like we were talking about everything being such a unique Journey um and um you were mentioning um Eric about like your your goals um because I I kind of go into each tour um with kind of an open mind um and not really much of an expectation except for the fact that we get to play live music um honestly you never know like how many people are going to show up I mean there can be so many factors involved um our our last tour like you know our we were

47:37supposed to play Absolution Fest and then the hurricane hit um and that got cancelled um but you just you never know right like there's just so many things like a lot of X factors um and then sometimes you can play a show and I mean in our case um you know we've we've played shows where there's like five people in the audience um in kind is obsolete um I think it was our second show ever we played um the skate park and there was like maybe five 10 people in the audience however one of the people in the audience was the promoter that was putting on the kmfdm show this

48:13is our second show ever and so he approached us and was like would you be interested in opening for kmfdm I was like well let me think about that oh I so really I mean Tru like so you just you never know um who's in the audience and and I feel like um you know you can't really go into it with the expectation even of numbers um it's true of social media it's true of of music like I feel like you have to kind of just really truly love what you're doing you know then it's the pressure though from promoters like our ticket sales like yeah so now that's why we we work a

48:51little on that but I wish we could go back to like yeah it's just like I don't care there's five people in the audience but yeah well it depends on the circumstance I got to mention though everything goes cold I will not call out where it was cuz I feel like I'd be putting somebody on blast but we once played a show that had zero people paid out of town in the middle of a tour and it still was worth playing it can happen yeah uh so you know because of because of the long-term benefits that you know contacts that we made as a result of playing that show

49:22and showing up to a bad situation and powering through and actually playing the show will always give you a good relationship with the people who the small number of people who showed up the venue whoever it is if they know that you're you know willing to put in a large amount of work for a little return it you know yeah it speaks well of uh speaks well of everybody's Artistic integrity or whatever I guess I guess that yeah because we put on the same show no matter what like there was some smaller shows of course so you just give it the same energy that yeah it it doesn't

49:54matter I think that's the point is it doesn't matter how many people it does financially eventually but but like for you as the artist If Money Was No Object you put on the same show obviously you like the energy of a of a good crowd that's really into it but those those five people might be the most energetic or you might get that opportunity to say well we like your show we're gonna you want a tour with this other band so yeah that um the last area US tour I say we didn't we never had a bad show because even the shows that had smaller turnouts there was

50:24always at least like one in the front row who was like screaming along with every word to every song and it's I um there were definitely nights where it was like I'm really just playing to that one person but that was totally you know that was great the night of their lives yeah it makes all the difference right when you feel like you're connecting even with one person like you see them out there and you see that they're really connecting with your music and you I mean I think that really like that's so special yeah I tend to get a lot of um like that's what moves me the most is

50:59like after my show I'll get some people come up to me like they have some story and it's always so amazing and so moving by like how your lyrics or your music like changed my life or helped me through this situation and I guess like that's their chance to say that to me in person and be there in front of me and kind of share their story and that means the world to me so I I've said that I'm like I love when you like I hear that and it just that made that night worthwhile that made that five no more than five hour drive

51:30and that made that drive that tiredness that those Road stops the you know everything that you feel they lived for that moment to see you and tell that story so it's all worth it yeah I um I have a question um uh from Jesus Bower actually that said um it's a question for Jennifer um how did you come up for the lyrics for why aren't you dead yet I love the double meaning let the record show I was I was mad that that was done on a set list for the last tour yes so uh song hello again I think that's your another question uh Eric wants us to

52:10play that in this the show so I've got to think rethink the set list because I didn't put it in the Battle Cry set list but his favorite song Always is the ones I never we don't play live so we never that that's true is it we never well we play Doss now which is my favorite first album but uh okay yeah oh and flicker from flicker is your favorite we don't play don't play yeah why aren't you D yet okay that's funny I do it out of spite anything he likes I won't play it's true it really it it reflects our relationship pretty well yeah oh no um

52:38that that song's uh I don't know really where the lyrics came out I I had this theme of like I really like true crime documentaries so I started with that that weird concept of the forensics of my like and then I don't know if anyone ever got this but that was the one song I was trying to do a different I'm like VOC I was trying to challenge myself vocally so I actually was going for like that kind of more 80s like a gothy like forensics of my heart and that's not really like it's more like um like a fluttery gosy thing I was going for it I

53:12might not have nailed it it doesn't matter but um so that was like me trying to just do that kind of pace and style of his song so the the lyrics started of just like that kind of uh it's it's really like talking about like I'm like flubbing my words I'm just tired but like detective procedural like forensics and tying it into like you know if I could get away with murder like I'll wipe the scene clean of you like so I just stuck to that theme and it just all kind of came together like that there's no real um deeper motivation for that one that one does

53:44not have a person behind it just so you know Jen's just trying not to say that it was you know about trying to throw me off the tour band that I would M if I would get away with murder you wouldn't last a day Eric yeah yeah um so uh oh real quick uh Jeff Baker is saying Jennifer that guy from South America that went to Tans just to see you I think is saying saying saying hello hi there a question he just like hi he's just saying hello yes nice to see great you're on here this is so fun all these names and like

54:21we didn't know who would watch and like this is great I it's always wonder F to see like you know the communities that come out and support um and all their ways of how they've met you and how they've connected with you um I think that it it's definitely a reflection of of of both of you as people and artists because obviously if you were not approachable they wouldn't feel comfortable asking the questions so definitely a testament to the fact that you are obviously very generous with um who you are as people and artists thank you and actually with tying it into t uh we love meeting people so I and I

54:59like you know how you said every tour is unique and I'm I I love our low drama tours I love that the whole band was like we all got along so well and everyone is very personal we all like meeting the people that come there so there's never you know except Eric he's a bit of a standoffish guy but yes yeah I'm sorry don't talk to me okay we actually hate each other yeah we've actually never met before which is really weird we all these tours uh I make him sit in the trailer yeah that that is some we do some like we do some

55:36jokingly things like you're annoying mate like it's just you know you get the tour bickers it's fun um usually I was I feel like that's usually Mike I anyway I was going to say though that like that really is like a such a high point of touring that is you got a version of at festivals but definitely like you know the number of people you meet over the course for tour is incredible and that's that is great and people travel like um that example the T at the tours uh the festivals you're going to meet most people that traveled in one place like they came from

56:12everywhere because it's a big event and that's always fun but we do like meeting everyone in their local cities too because it's yeah different experience they're both great yeah absolutely um I do find that uh especially f feel like reunions for sure oh yeah people and the other bands right like that's a big feature of dark force dark force always is like I always see like people from that you know that we work together like a bazillion years ago at that Festival more than any other so yeah I'm excited about that again this year yes both black is playing so the very beginning of your uh your

56:50career so I'm I'm not I played dark force last year the festival in New Jersey um I'm going this year and they announced I am doing one special guest vocal spot um I recorded a song with flesh field and they're playing so it's been announced I get to go up and sing it and then and his band is playing it as well so we're gonna see so many friends there it'll be amazing actually and you've never seen my band actually no I'm not a fan I'm not a fan no I it's just I'm you don't play a lot of we don't play no shows but um

57:23yeah yeah but this we actually we didn't play for six years prior to this uh the show we did as sort of our comeback in uh in February we're going to we'll have some special guest stars and stuff though it'll be it'll be fun and yeah uh Dark Forest last year was the first show we'd ever done that was just me and Jen playing area because Mike was out with he was out with somebody else but um yeah my live musicians are from all over um he got San Francisco we've got uh it's just hard to get everyone together sometimes and we for the tour

57:57they commit they can commit to the whole thing but these one-off festivals sometimes it like Sarah's in school like yeah so we just it was a Duo just the two of us he did backing uh or keyboards so I like to have at least three people on stage but yeah yeah yeah but I I I thought it was great the the crowd was really great yeah also you know it's nice when sometimes I get to be the hot one from the two keyboardists because Sarah's not there I think that happened on tours like people would be like Hey where's your keyboard is at which one

58:27the hot one and who would be like oh not me I see it was definitely it was Sarah so poor Eric was like you know I'm sure some people meant you yeah it was cute it was funny yeah yeah it is interesting how you know um depending on you know the the availability of people like how you know um people that are experiencing your band can have like a different lineup a different experience of it um you know and I think that's actually very cool like it's like you never know what you're going to get when you get to experience that right so I was gonna

59:04make a joke that sometimes I'm not even there yeah I have to bring a few different live people just for different countries and expenses in logistics sometimes and um I like there's you know my core band I love having the same people because you do get that what you call it t or tight we get like that for any show with like Eric playing like he knows all the parts it's like um but sometimes you just have to do with a bit less and with electronic music it's possible we're not so it's not full Rock organic so yeah yeah I I mean I think definitely for me if I could if I could

59:39set up an area show it would always have all four of us um but I will say when we did the uh when we did uh uh dark force last year I think like you and I played off each other in ways that we normally don't because we we sort of had to right and it it actually like it um I think it was a different show in a way that if you're somebody who had seen the band before you were getting a different experience and that was hopefully independently worthwhile I it was great yeah there was like you know I had a little bit more space to play a little

1:00:06bit different things because I was not thinking about what Sarah might be playing and like you know I was moving around a little bit more because we had a lot of space on stage uh so it used to be like it was just the two of us crazy like you know leaving my keyboard all the way down spinning around kind of a thing he's known for that it's amazing I think that's really inspiring ing because I feel like you know as artists um then you really get to exercise your creativity to go like okay in this particular Paradigm you know how am I going to express so you know it

1:00:38changes for for for each stage I think know uh we're actually getting a question uh from Ryan Morgan thank you so much for for hanging out with us um Ryan is saying hey Jen last US tour you said necklace he gave me sorry that's a oh he that was one of the questions so um uh you said you tried to book a show out here in Tucson a but it didn't work out do you think that you'll ever perform in Tucson and by the way how are you enjoying the jewelries thank you for the jewelry uh it's so funny um this the Unicorn oh it's really cool yeah yeah

1:01:15um Tucson we do try it's hard like um sometimes our scene is pretty amazing that stuff has lasted so long like I have my list of the same promoters some of the same venues that I've been playing 20 years and I it's amazing that you know they're just like y yeah you're coming through book you um but some cities uh change and venues close promoters move on not doing the same thing so some of those markets we end up going we can't really make it work this time we don't know who to contact it's just we try to fill that Gap like just um geographically where it is it makes

1:01:53sense but um yeah I would love to say yeah we always come through but yeah we got to sometimes we just don't have a venue well I want to say for Tucson specifically you know this last time um that thing we were saying about like the short drives and everything we were a little bit more conservative with um I would say the markets that are pretty close to other markets so we did play Phoenix but we didn't play Tucson um also by the way I mean I always associate uh Tucson with Mike and Tamar Jenny who of course now we here we actually saw them last night uh so I

1:02:26think that has uh for me I like I I no longer if I'm booking something immediately know who I've got to call in tuon anymore of course what I'd actually do is like call Tamara and say hey who am I supposed to call tell me I'm sure but um uh but yeah I imagine that's probably changed uh the scene down there a little bit but also um Sam fanuka I believe is doing some events I I think in Tucson I think and uh he's an old friend of mine and so so we're hooked up next time there you go yeah be there Ryan no kiding anyway yeah but

1:03:00uh I I love Tucson I love Tucson the uh uh like that whole area around like the Surly wench Pub there's so much to do around there there's that big crazy Tiki Bar yeah so tried to get that I didn't get any followup yeah like we said sometimes there's really dedicated promoters and it changes and then you just don't get to do every every stop so but I we hope we'll try again we always like you know next times through yeah yeah I it's it's interesting because I feel like in certain regions like you were saying like it's close is to Phoenix and so you have to kind of be

1:03:37like okay if I if I have to pick one city um as much as we would love to play all the cities I think you know yeah Ryan came to Phoenix so was good to see yes I talk about my jewelry that that often comes up like with uh with like you know San Francisco and Sacramento um you know like they're different communities and it's great to play both but ultimately you know that you know Sacramento people often will drive out here if they really have to so it's you know and I I think Tucson and Phoenix are kind of like that too um they're

1:04:08just close enough to be inconvenient but you know not bad in convenient yeah uh OPG 4704 says pancakes is in Tucson that's yes yes we love pancakes that's that yeah that's that's Sam what I was just talking about yes yes speaking of which I see Clint Carney on here as well just oh my God hi Clint oh I love our peoples there so there's so many friends on here now I'm embarrassed I know um so uh we're getting uh several more questions um this is from Cliff Anderson um says Hey Y'all uh while touring through Texas anything stand out that make you go yeah we're in Texas

1:04:55much love oh yeah what's it called the big Amo yeah we were on our way we finished our uh I think we had finished our three Texas shows we did Dallas Houston Austin um yeah we were on our way North on our way North to oh get to Denver we had Denver uh and Mike our like tour manager on the road and driver is like I got to take you somewhere and we we didn't even believe this place when we got there it's called The Big Texan in amarilla yeah yeah and it's insane and there's like big huge steaks and contests for if you can eat this GI

1:05:31steak Disneyland yeah it was it was it was the most utterly like yeah it was totally Bonkers and they had like I don't even know where to start with this place first of all we just got just enormous amounts of meat it we were in we were like and there was like big mechanical bulls out front it was just like there was this elderly Duo of musicians where like there was the girl with like the the woman with the the fiddle playing Johnny Cash yeah playing Johnny Cash C at our table and it just there was a guy there who was doing one of those like you know eat this gigantic

1:06:03steak under a certain time period you know and you get your name on the wall of fame or whatever thing that was the contest like eating the most meat in the list yeah it's it was the literal that Simpsons bit where the guy dies eating the steak it was that actual thing like that was what this was based on apparently and we watched this guy he didn't win by the way um he he was he looked bedraggled it was like the heart attack was about to hit him I'm thinking anytime that was that was that was very Texan any I've done a lot of stuff in

1:06:33Texas and that is the most Texas thing I've ever done oh and then I think the was bies in Texas oh that's all over Texas I just have to okay I'm Canadian I did not know what and I've toured a lot but for some reason I've never stopped at this so I I did a post I'm like what is this place and I little did I know it's got its own like fan world of am like there there's merchandise it is it's a gas station but not and and so everyone was schooling me on this because I just had a picture of me going first time at this crazy gas station and

1:07:06then I learned that bies is a thing it's got a fan base but anyways and that to me that's maybe not Texas but just the American things that I don't know about so I think um this time our our best show in Texas this time was uh was Austin alium which always shout out to John alium that's always uh always a great show and that was that was a highlight this time yeah we had uh we had some really good barbecue that one night remember you and I went out everybody else I laugh though because I don't in Austin everyone goes for barbecue but my favorite thing is a

1:07:39vegetarian restaurant near the uh near I'm not vegetarian but I this just this one restaurant so but yes when we had barbecue that was really good too so yeah I'm getting a kick out of this myself because I'm from Texas um I'm actually from Leck which is really close to Amarillo and my cousin is a rancher in Amarillo so I'll have to share I love people's perceptions of Texas like to hear you know I'm totally totally nailing it here like you got the barbecue you got the bies for sure yeah bies have have you been to the Big Texan I've heard of it that's a thing

1:08:13it's like my cousin knows all about it but yeah destination W it was an experience that I did not know that I needed to have and I definitely needed to have it I want to go back yeah oh and um so we also getting uh a question from um uh David Montoya uh what would be a three band Tour lineup uh that you would drive 100 miles to Sea bonus if the bands no longer exist that we would go to see oh okay oh yeah Jesus Jones EMF and Carter the Unstoppable sex machine which is a lineup that I was about to fly to Toronto to see in June

1:09:00of 2020 and then the stupid pandemic hit and they never rescheduled the show oh no yeah so I'm going to go see EMF they're coming around in the US finally for the first time in a bazillion years I'm going to go see them I was out with I missed the last Jesus Jones tour because it was out with you and Carter the Unstoppable sex machine I don't know what'll I'll see them but I hope it'll happen that's my that's my Tour lineup that I'm that I'm craving I can't I might have to skip this one I I I'd have to put more thought into it not a good

1:09:25on the person so we'll put a get back I'm trying to think of like who I think you would travel to see oh no I don't I don't know think about that okay we'll think about that I'm sorry I feel like we should have some inside joke that's like the same band three times yeah yeah yeah I'm not that yeah see another band cover my device three times in a row you know um an area cover band yeah hey if there was an area cover band out there I would go see that that sounds incredible because that would never happen it's so far out of the

1:10:00realm yeah yeah I'll I'll get back to you David I know your contact UM getting some love from DJ skeletal um saying always welcome in St Louis um I booked area maybe 16 to 17 years ago here at Dante and of course TSH many times we are so grateful for you thank you so much I want to I I have to remember that context we didn't do St Louis we haven't done it in a while so if you're still booking we go I've never played actually it it was really good yeah there there's a beautiful venue wonderful community at crack Fox um highly recommended yeah

1:10:38just wonderful wonderful people so yes awesome if y'all can if y'all can route through I I highly recommend it that one I'll put on top of mine because I did like playing there it was great um oh um uh rensky is saying I can't wait to see you at dark dark Fest singing flesh Fields me too I'm practicing that one you can't not wait to see me you haven't seen my band play in like 10 years on Kevin I have like the one band that Kevin's not into that's it oh we're excited for you too Eric I like that um this is another question um

1:11:17from David L um one of my favorite songs is six seconds uh what is the meaning behind it oh no um if you're willing to share No but it's highly detailed microwave of an instruction it it's funny because I think back that was a really old one too and I don't even think uh I hate disappointing people but I don't think it's that sensical I think it was just a really cool Vibe I had going on and you know had this like kind of megalomaniac KFDM like like just like it's going on and like the lyrics are literally it's going on forever it's going on forever

1:11:53and ever and yeah and I I hate to disappoint but yeah there's not really a lot to explain to the depth of that it was just like a awesome Stompy dance song so yeah that's it it's got like that galopy Rhythm to the vocals that I think really is is really distinctive yeah you're making me think of these I didn't do that one on last tour either but yeah these older songs I wish I could do more in them yeah we could do six se would be a that' be a fun one to put back in like yeah okay we'll put it back in the set though

1:12:22even though you know it's about nothing no kidding I think it's always interesting um like especially when you start building your catalog because you you have to choose like how am I going to squeeze in material into this condensed amount of time right um and sometimes you'll choose something but then you'll have um your audience that's like well I would really wish you could have played this song it's always when you don't play and I have a rule I always I pick at least two from every release to balance it but sometimes you know you just wish you could do that third one or that you're

1:12:57like oh everyone ask about that but I just can't fit it and sometimes for me vocally I know there's a one people want to hear but I can't really pull it off live as well I'm just not like the range might like I'm like if I'm struggling that one won't go over well or I don't feel good singing it live or um or there's one song I have called um invisible and I know people love it but there's no vocal gaps like and it's fast there is not one instrumental break in that so I'm like I can't breathe when I do that song so and I know I struggle

1:13:27and it won't sound very good so I just choose not to do it so s I'll just sing that one next time okay he'll sing it I actually have a lot to play on that song so that's a that be I do like that one um I I I should mention I I know this was obviously about that was definitely a very gen question but in my own band we have songs that we've had people cycle out of the band and we can't play them without them uh we've got we've got a couple songs on the first album that I just like would have to totally

1:13:55restructure around somebody else's vocals or capabilities or whatever uh so um I think that uh some of that is stuff where it's like I wish that I thought more about that when I was you know when I was writing that song being able to do it live which is something uh Dan from Babyland used to talk about that a lot um he always used to say that like if he couldn't play a song live it wasn't going on the album because then somebody want would be able to question not exactly those words but that that was a thing that he was often concerned about makes

1:14:29sense yeah it's interesting because like when you when you are like putting the the songs together for the album like keeping the live element in mind can definitely be a factor for sure yeah there's definitely songs on our albums that we we have not performed live so um yeah there's hard to make the call yeah there's a there's this XTC documentary that I watched a couple of years ago where you know they asked sort of in-depth why they hadn't played live in a million years and they were like oh because everything that we write now is just for or not now it was all 20 years

1:15:02ago but you know everything that they'd written was really just for uh recorded stuff and they didn't feel like they could do anything useful with the live anymore um and my thought process as a fan was definitely uh well I want to hear this weird alternate version of this that you that you could only play Live um but yeah I I don't know uh artistically maybe that didn't suit them so I could see that too this is a question that I I get myself quite a bit um and I always think it's really it's it's a it's a really interesting inspiring question um is is

1:15:36um what like is there a certain way that you approach your songwriting is there or does that vary from song to song like is your favorite way that you like to um explore your songwriting go first or you go first I I'll think think about it yeah I am um I rely on I got a phone here but my voice notes my voice memos because my ideas will come to me I'll be in the shower I'll be W walking my dog and I just get a melody in my head and I'm like oh God and so I have to Quick get it out and so I've got a million voice

1:16:11notes that I will go back to to say oh yeah and then I'll say that one's that one's good I'm GNA flesh that out and then I go you know to my computer I load up my my software and I start like laying down Beach um yeah I usually pick the BPM of something lay a very basic beat down and try to get that Melody out even if I haven't done the verses or something around it and then I'll structure it uh you know I go okay it needs this many bars for the verse and then I go what compliments that part I wrote so that's

1:16:42kind of where I come from or sometimes it's like a mood like I know I want to write about a theme which usually dictates this is going to be ballad or this one's going to be really angry uh so I think it it varies but um this last album it's all my voice notes that I'm just walking around um with I I definitely start with a vocal Melody um and if not it's a syn it it's just a little catch like and it just like plays in my head until I get it out and then I'll do stuff around there but that that's my own process so um I usually uh

1:17:17I usually sort of start with a sketch which is usually like you know a synth lead or a beat or something like that and then um oh pardon me I told you at the beginning Scott said he was gonna mute me so I assume nobody could hear me anymore um like oh god um I usually start with a sketch and I um I spend a lot of time thinking about structure and trying to make sure that whatever I'm doing in any given song that I'm writing is different than at least what I did in the LA in like the last couple of songs if not

1:17:55something totally different than anything that I've ever done which I found my bandmates often are on my case because they're like why is there like a three bar break here that makes no sense you know or things like that but I I spend a lot of time thinking about structure and that that guides a lot of my songw writing but I also um I try to make sure that things have a have melodic and and this is there's not a lot of my writing that is super present in cyclon 9 but the stuff in on IR I think this is this was what I added

1:18:27to that that I think actually seeped into some of the later stuff that they did too without me um I try I spend a lot of time trying to make sure that things have a lot of melodic and harmonic progression in a way that I think a lot of electronic bands in our genres don't always and um that always stands out to me when I think that there hasn't been thought put into the really like that side of the structure um because I think those songs don't stick with people as well and you know uh I feel like the difference between songs that you hear on the dance floor for a

1:19:02month that then go away versus you know some to PES mode song that's been getting played for 40 years as often did somebody stop to think about you know does this feel good as a complete unit uh in a more traditional music kind of way and I think people are tempted to avoid thinking like that deliberately because of the you know theoretical ideals of Industrial Music challenging the ideas of what music is supposed to be about and I'm like you can think about that but then still write a good song uh so that's my shake on that yeah absolutely I I think that you know the

1:19:38the structure the arrangement how you layer things um it really can change everything you know yeah um I think that's part of the fun right oh sorry do you need a water break this no I'm fine this is I I do have a cough drop though that'll probably help I really I was this like I was really hoping like three days ago I was like this has got to be gone by by the time I'm doing this interview but you can ask me something while he gets his I have wonder I got in Canada so that's how so we're getting a a question from Ryan Morgan um I remember listening to 6

1:20:20seconds on a 4 cd compilation by VF before the heart for bullet album or the gun song EP were released I love the VF yeah um I love the VF version why is it different from what it is now really okay no no I love that one too um that one was the oh okay well that's interesting so the um the one the original one that you love was before I was working with producer uh and then I got um a producer involved in the heart Ser bullets album Seb comr from you know iconic oils uh Comer commander and that the one that ended up on hards for

1:21:00bullets is the one produced by him so that's that's why they vary a little so yeah the difference of working with a producer and and uh and not so yeah yeah are are you both um self-produced or do you work with different producers um uh at least with this with your current albums that you're I like I write my songs structure them layer them and then send off stuff to work with a producer for the final thing because my interest is not in saying I can do everything and I want to tweak I don't like tweaking the little high hats so uh I like writing vocals and Melodies and

1:21:37harmonies and structuring the song so I feel like I'm I'm a songwriter and I do program and complete the song but those final details of like getting that you know that final EQ because that would drive me crazy that's just not my forte um and that's what I do so oh the producer too right well you know what though can I just say cuz I feel I defend it a little more we're going to get into the feminism part because a lot of people a lot of people you know oh well if you don't do everything and you're a woman like whereas you know or

1:22:09like a woman might get well you're just the singer like oh would you tell Dave Khan he was just sing you know so certain like things like that I think women feel like they've got to do it all and do everything to be that fully respected but I mean I've been in the business for over 20 years and I do program I do write and everything but I just decided that the time needed to spend to get that next level of production that's just not where I want to put my efforts I want to write another song so you go okay well first let me say that one of the very first

1:22:39shows I ever played with Jennifer back in like 2005 I had this very clear memory of somebody coming up I think they came up to Joe uh um who was playing keyboards with us at the time and was like oh I love those beats you were making and he was like I didn't write any of this and they're like well no we know you really wrote it he was like no no this is she wrote all that I didn't write any of this I just showed up to play live and like this guy like would not believe it and it was uh that was my that was my first direct

1:23:06experience with the sexism in the weird layer of misogyny that's floating around everything in in this industry that I I mean it's everywhere but it was it was a a very direct experience for me which I would not have normally had so uh GL I got to see that yeah actually then then one you weren't on there's just one more story it's about touring this is bad I'm not going to call it the city but the sound guy guy here there's me say the sound person who was a man uh went up to um this guy was a jerk though so yeah yeah I call everyone guys so uh went up

1:23:39to Mike who is my drummer and he's like okay so what are we gonna do here what do we need and he's like oh talk to her and you know it's just like no and I came up I'm like oh what do you what do you need to know he's like honey this the men are talking oh wow I've never been so angry in my life but you don't really want to anger the sound person because that could ruin your show so I actually had to eat it my anger and I just walked off and I think I went backstage and went and Mike knew yeah Mike's like I'm

1:24:11GNA deal with it for her but I like we you had I had to just let him get away with it because I if I exploded we might have lost the set we were just opening but anyways there's my other story it's been a lot I would say it's better now this we're talking these 20 years ago stories it's not great now but it's it's my my personal experience is it's been better so yeah you don't want to anger the sound guy you know except for that one time what the last us oh let's not talking about that let's not talking about that anyway um okay I got a little

1:24:43aggressive sweet little me did get aggressive on One show I had never seen her do that for it was very funny um I'm done putting up with the [ __ ] yeah it took 20 years for me to find my voice no but okay go ahead so uh for me the question was uh was originally about we were talk about the producer thing I just thought I'd throw in sexism in the music industry just to like really R up we have to get to it at some point sorry okay go ahead yeah I uh I try to avoid doing things myself for my own band that I'm not good at uh and if I don't think

1:25:19that I'm good at something and I'm not it's not something that I enjoy so much that I really like want it to be my specialty then I'd rather get somebody else involved who's you know who's somebody really cool to do it so um I feel like everybody should know enough to get a demo out you know everybody should be able to put something together on their own that gets their ideas across to the people that need to know what the idea is um so I you know so I can put together uh I I think I'm I'm a little bit better than that we've we've

1:25:49put out a couple things recently uh uh we did that uh everything go co did that Dort tribute compilation for example and um we did uh we did recording of some of the instruments at um my drummer's house who also does a lot of production but uh I mixed that entirely myself and I feel like it came up pretty well if I if I will say so myself but our most recent single for example uh well our our albums we've always had somebody doing the mixing at least and uh on the last album we had Wade Allen from Christ analog uh as the producer and he

1:26:25definitely did a little bit more than that he you know he did a lot of a lot of tweaking and a lot of like adding little noises and changing effects and things like that but it wasn't yeah it was definitely production but it wasn't the sort of super involved production that people associate with like 90s producers and this time when we did this this most recent single I uh I asked my friend Matia simovic uh to do it and he is a producer producer like that is you know he's a uh and he's worked with a lot of uh really cool newer bands he's done stuff with like everybody from from

1:27:00boy harer to uh what do you call in patriarchy and um my favorite uh of his bands he's worked on sacred skin a lot of these newer bands that are doing really cool Cutting Edge stuff and I went down and actually did all the recording and everything in his Studio from start to finish uh and it was a great experience and I highly recommend it if you have the opportunity first of all to work with Matia but also to work with um you know to work with a really serious producer who maybe is has more has a more diverse skill set than uh you know Than People traditionally do in our

1:27:38community um not not that Wade doesn't have that skill set he does but it was a home studio this was like a you know a full working Studio at at its at at top possible level and uh you know it wasn't easy to make that happen fortun fortun I've known matio for a long time so I think he was uh able to slot me at a at a schedule that was a little bit more convenient than maybe anybody else might have been able to get so I appreciated that but um it was a really good experience and I think I don't know if we'll be able to do that all the time

1:28:09going forward but um I learned so much about what could be done during the process of creating a track that I feel like I'll be able to take to every experience going forward so I hope we have the opportunity to do more things like that again yeah I mean it's speaking to to Jen um you know you were talking about um you know feeling like you have to wear so many hats and I love that both of you are talking about like um the strengths of the people that you've worked with um because I feel like really like any particular piece of art that you create

1:28:46if you choose to make it collaborative which a producer is a collaboration um it's sort of like going like okay the sum of the parts than the whole right so like you're giving everything that you can and um and the only way for it to be the greatest you know whole is for you to sort of accept like okay this is this is my best that I can give and this person has a skill set that I don't have right and really celebrating that so that you can make the biggest greatest piece of art that you can out of it you know yeah and hopefully learn from the yeah yeah and

1:29:21you recognize that you know what you bring to the table like some I work with people like they said I can't do what you do I can't get those harmonies or think of that catchy you know I can't write a song like that but I can my skill sets that like I can perfect this and and flush it flush it out technically so we all kind of have our own strengths and if you find those good partners to work with whether it's Studio production live like it's it makes everything better and it comes together and that creates art right like it it puts it polishes it and it's ready

1:29:56go yeah I I think that's I think you know that's really part of the the fun you know um because you could just be you know a studio artist in your home um as a solo artist and just putting out work that way which is awesome um but I feel like um both of you are wired to to get out there in your community to create with each other with other people um you are you are banded people right so yeah I I try to do things as collaborative as collaboratively as possible a thing that I definitely have learned from my own band is and honestly from everything

1:30:33that I've ever done is if you try to do that too hard at some point things are going to stop because we're adults with day jobs and it's hard to coordinate everything so you know flexibility is also key but as great great though that collaboration may be exactly absolutely um well we're we're uh to that time of of of uh at 4:30 I know you guys have uh many many things on your plate um just asking the community as a whole are there any last questions that you wanted to um ask these wonderful friends of ours um if there's anything uh please put in the

1:31:11chat um if you have time uh Jen um you're getting asked from runy um which Indian restaurant would you recommend in Toronto since I know it has a famous area for Indian restaurants oh wow um I'm gonna recommend one called Banjara on blur Street and I'll send you the info are you coming to Toronto are you okay here's a secret announcement we are playing Toronto on June 14th oh yeah it hasn't it actually has not been um announced publicly we're just waiting for the details from the promoter and the club this will be my first Hometown show in a very long time and it'll be my only show announced of

1:31:522025 as I'm working on the new album like I there might be others that come but this is the first one announced and you can meet my mom I'm also this is going to be the first show I am flying in but it's also gonna be the first show with Joe in I don't know how many years so Joe Byer is uh from the band void a v1d and he was my co-producer like helped um produce flicker we we worked on that very collaboratively and we didn't work on stuff since that he has his own band and stuff but he's one of my best friends in Toronto as well like

1:32:23been best friend for like 20 years uh and he wants to return for this show he's like I'm going to play Live since and that works out well for for me and so the the one lineup of the first time Eric played with me was Eric and Joe and me and we're gonna do that in Toronto and it's it's really cool yeah yeah so I'm really stoked about this this is gonna be a great show oh that's exciting I feel like it's going to be really special to being able to have like your family and friends you know in your hometown too yeah there'll be a lot of family there it's gonna be

1:32:55odd I that makes me more nervous than performing to like strange to friends is fine but family like oh so judgy no it's a different Beast like my mom is like I'll wear my black hoodie I'm like you don't have to oh that's really sweet yeah dress your mom up in like like giant like yeah that's amazing um so you're getting um a lot of love and gratitude um John Turner is saying thanks so much for doing this um Dusty chalk also thank you so much for your time and your generous sharing um rensy says not anytime soon but um uh EPS uh something about and

1:33:41your puppy and Epsilon minus okay yes my puppy is rley um John is saying uh that uh he's gonna try to make that Toronto show I really want to see a HomeTown show awesome I think I remember saying that yeah yeah um and David is saying I hope to see you guys in New York so well Jen Eric thank you so much for for taking the time to chat with all of us and for sharing your amazing wisdom and perspective it's been such a joy and inspiration to share the time with you well thank you for having us Tash always a pleasure yeah this is great A lot of

1:34:21fun thanks thanks everyone that watched this long and just hear us go on and yeah I'm I'm glad this this worked out while Jen was here because I feel like there wouldn't have been probably wouldn't have been quite as many questions if it was just me I'm happy here and got to participate um yeah and thanks for having both of us on it's great yeah we have experiences and separate so it's been fun like yeah I think I think part of the joy is is getting to to really see your friendship because I think that's really part of the beautiful part of um being in a band

1:34:56together right is the Friendship the family the chosen family part and yeah she's all right I guess oh well dear friends thank you so much and and thank you everyone for sharing your time with us as well um best of luck to both of you I'm so excited to um hear the new music as it comes out and hopefully get to catch a live show as well this year somehow so yeah yeah we'll see we'll see you around soon I'm sure yeah yes yes all right bye everyone bye