Ken Magerman & Collin Schipper of Amaranth, in full

0:21Hey, hey, hey. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Hi friends. Um, this is Unwritten Rules of the Road. I'm Tash and we have wonderful friends and guests today. Um, Ken Merman and Colin Skipper. I hope I said that right. Of you got it. Oh, yeah. I did it. Um, thank you all so much for joining us Welcome. Thank you for having us. Yay. Yes. Um, such a joy. I feel like um we've been in like kind of like sat we've been satelliting for a little while because I I hit up Ken um this was before the pandemic to play a show together. Um Alice wanted to play with

4:01Amaranth. Um and it didn't work out. But I'm so excited that we get to do this um at Cat Spixation Festival. Yes, that that's going to be a great one. I mean, just so many exciting bands and and friends and just Cat meant so much to our community in Detroit there and and Smalls and just to have so many of her friends there to support and celebrate her is a big deal. And so I'm really stoked to be playing with with you guys and just all the amazing bands there. We're we're really geeked and we haven't done like a a festival like that before. I'm always there to cover Fixation and

4:41kind of hang out with everybody, but we hadn't played it previously. So yeah, we're really geeked to be doing that. That's actually going to be really special. Um I hope it's okay to mention it, but you have a new release, a new Yeah, we see we're one of those like we're so terrible about the promotion of our releases where we just get it done and with no plan or like leadup big things coming. We're just like, let's put this out, Colin, at like midnight on a Thursday. And I guess people will hear about it when they hear about it. So, yeah, we're not precious about trying to

5:17uh keep our secrets, but yeah, we just put out a new single that we wrote and dedicated to Cat about her uh called Remember Cat, and we're donating all the proceeds to the Ferndale Cat Shelter, uh which was Cat's favorite charity. Um, and I don't know, it I like the song. It's a banger. It's a fun song. That was with that one. I don't know, something that was tough that we tried to do because Cat was a silly goth like like us and appreciated kind of the fun of it all. So, we wanted something that embraced that but at the same time had that reverence that we also feel because

5:59this one really hurt a lot and you know our it's going to take a lot of all of us stepping up to fill the hole left in the scene by not having Cath there. Oh man, now I'm going to get misty already like 5 seconds in the interview. No, that's okay. I'm good. I'm good. But yeah, so uh the new song is out. It's out on Band Camp, Spotify, all of that. And then at the Fixation Festival, we will be playing it live for the first time. So, we're excited for that. And hopefully I won't start ugly crying then uh while on stage while I sing. Fingers

6:34crossed. Well, that means the rest of us need to learn the lyrics so we can help you sing it. True. True. Anybody who wants to that would be wonderful. Yes, they're great. I I did I tried to have a very repeatable anthem lyrics. So, I love it. Yes, it totally got stuck in my head when I heard it. So, awesome. I will be singing with you. Go ahead. Go ahead. Yes. Yes. Um Yeah. Yeah. No, I think it's it's really amazing and um I don't know like I I when we experienced the Detroit music scene ourselves um for the first time, we were really blown

7:11away with just how supportive the community was um and is. So, um yeah, I grew up over on that. I live out in West Michigan now, uh Colin and I in Kalazoo, but I grew up on the east side there. And there is I mean Detroit has a a special culture uh around music you know going back to whether you're talking MC5 Iggy pop you know I mean it it always has and then the electronic scene too you know you talk Derek May and kind of the the holy trinity of techno and people the the bluecollar scene there definitely embraces music but in particular underground music and I feel

7:56like that's always been a big part of it and and Smalls has been there a long time and always been about that, you know, like whether it's in punk rock or post punk or goth or Scott, you know, they just have always found a place for our thing and our music to be heard when in a lot of cities that's not always the case. There isn't a club that kind of for live music really dedicates to that as much. Yeah. No, I mean it's it's it's really inspiring and um I I was wondering like is that kind of what inspired both of y'all to to start the band and to to get

8:39go into the journey of live music yourself was growing up there? Um, I mean, we kind of did this version of Amaranth, Colin and I, uh, only about six years back. It's been longer than has it. God, where does time go? I guess it is. Yeah. But, um, I started Amaranth when I got to college, uh, in Kalamazoo uh, with some different people. And this was in my 20s, uh, when I was a pretty boy in a trench coat with long hair and all that jazz. Um, but Colin and I kind of bound each other more, yeah, in my 40s and decided to pick things back up

9:21again and restart the project and brought some other people in with it. And um, it was at the time I was kind of rediscovering goth music. Um, it went along with Sounds and Shadows and things like that, but there was a good long time there where I hate to say it, I kind of became one of those bitter, crusty old goths where I just went, well, if it's not the Sisters of Mercy, then [ __ ] this, you know, and just kind of I don't know, like I gave up at nobody's going to do anything good anymore. And it and then whatever it was like, you know, six years ago or so, you

9:58know, with Twin Tribes and actors and, you know, I started finding these new bands I was falling in love with and going, "God is a renaissance." And and now I don't even listen to old music anymore. I can't remember the last time I like put on a sisters record or joy division. I don't have time. I'm too, you know, busy always with the brand new releases that are always pumping out now and wanting to get reviews and things for that. So, that was kind of my renaissance and Colin helped make it a reality and make it easy because, as we talked about, I can't do crap by myself when it comes to

10:39technical. So, I'm going to let Colin now give his uh history and story, too. I I I mean I don't have a lot on that. Uh when we when we did bring it back um the original guitar player uh Josh Garmin who's in Crash City Saints and other amazing and wonderful bands. Yeah. Um was part of that as well. Um, so it was it was a great time just because of how far things have come where we were able to take a lot of the stuff that Ken and Josh had worked on prior and kind of bring it into a more modern feel with I

11:16mean still that trying to focus on those all those good goth sounds and industrial sounds that we loved. Um, I can't not inject a lot of 90s industrial sound into things. It just happens when I touch it. It's in your blood. Yes. So, um, so I think it got some more of those industrial tinges when I when I started working on it. Um, a little darker on that side of things. But, um, yeah, it was just joy to bring it back and and then Pen and I just started writing like crazy the second we got together because we're really dumb and we have a lot of

11:57fun together. So, and I think that's how it started getting really dumb. Yeah. That like in the past versions of Amarant that was me with Yeah. like two or three other serious people. And when it was Colin and I together, there was nobody to really rein us in or stop us when we were writing goth songs about ninjas and ass play. Like, nobody was there to say like, "This is highly inappropriate. This is not Goth. Stop writing about your only fans page, Kevin. This is not cool, bro. Um, but you know, to me, goth music has to be fun. It should be. And people wearing frilly shirts with like cuffs

12:44and upside down crosses and everything. If you're taking yourself too seriously while doing that, you are missing you are missing part of the fun because it should be a little silly. And I mean things really are dark and things are hard, especially right now. I mean, a lot of people are going through a very scary world right now. But at the same time, I don't know. I I also have to like use gallows humor and laugh um you know at myself and the world because it's the only way to stay sane really and and goth music can be for that too. It's it's a very

13:26pageantrybased exatholic type music, you know, and and I think that's something that we try and make sure we keep incorporated while having songs too that are serious and have serious themes mixed in with us writing right now and EP of songs based off of our Dungeons and Dragons characters that are also goth. You know what, whatever. Yes. Yes, I am here for this. I can't wait. That's awesome. I mean, I love that you bring joy into it because I feel like like you were saying like you you can't you know there is darkness, right? The human experience has darkness in it. But the fact that you can also

14:11find that joy I think um is infectious. It's absolutely infectious. I mean, just getting to chat with y'all right now, I feel like I've laughed already like the whole time. So, um, thank you for bringing that light. I mean, even like serious goth stuff, I think that was always how I took it. Like when I was, you know, whatever, 17, 16, I'd listen to the Swans when I'd have a horrible day and I'm in a bad place. I'm I'm feeling, you know, in my feelings right now. And then I I will never be Swans. I no matter what's going on with me, I am not tied to the bloody post of

14:53failure. I I am not weighed down by the sinking lead weights of fail. Whatever is going on with me, it's not what that guy is going through. He And so, you know what? I should have perspective. I You know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna get a milkshake. I'm I'm going to be okay. And I think there's I really love that. There's also, I mean, let's be real, the scene is filled with as as one of them. We're just all nerds. I mean, it's so much pageantry and it's so much absurdity. And I feel like we have to accept and embrace that to some degree. And I was the 16-year-old who everything

15:33was so serious. Yeah. And everything was dreadful. But I had How do you not laugh at it once you get out of there? Yeah. You're you're sitting there listening to pretty hate machines. Some girl just done you wrong and the world was pretty much over. Yeah. I'm amazed that it moved on beyond that day. But somehow it did and now I'm 47. 30 years go by and I'm still here. Wow. Who would have figured? That said, at this point in my life, if I still We saw Stabbing West last year and I am somehow still 16. Yeah. just went through a breakup and it's the end

16:11of the world for those two minutes. Yeah. We were there at Smalls and Kyle and I just sat there like crying, holding each other while Chris Hall yelled at us and we were we were those kids again even though we didn't know each other back then. Oh my gosh, I wish I had been there not only to watch the show but also to watch y'all because that's amazing. It was pretty awesome. Like it's funny because I had talked to Walter Flackis of Stabbing Western uh before that show at other times because he's in the Sounds and Shadows group. And so I walked I saw him there and I was like, "Oh, hey uh

16:48Walter. What's me uh I'm Ken Mgherman from the review page Sounds and Shadows." And he goes, "Yeah, I know who you are, Ken. We're like Facebook." And I was like, "Well, I mean, whatever, whatever." And he goes, "Hey, cool. Well, it's good." And he talks to me for a minute. He goes, "Do you want to like take a picture with us or something for?" And I was like, "Oh, I mean that would be all right if you want to like no big uh sure." And I like take this picture with and the whole time I'm like, "Just be [ __ ] cool. Just be [ __ ] cool. Just be [ __ ] cool."

17:15Okay. Oh my god. Oh my god. This is happening. And then Chris Hall walked by and and accidentally touched my butt when he walked by and and he was like, "Oh, sorry." And I said, "No, thank And he went, "Uh, okay. All right." So, I made it weird. Okay. I made it weird. Whatever. Weird or fun? Yes. Yes. Um, real quick, I just wanted to to say howdy to our friends that are watching. Thank you all so much for joining. Um, Jessica Davis was saying, "I agree with Ken where music has to be fun." Um, and Dusty Chalk is saying, "Amen to that. If you don't fall on your face once in a

17:58while, you aren't challenging yourself Yeah. Hi to both of you. Hello everybody out there. I'm challenging myself all the time then. And you do a lot of falling. Helen does a lot of extreme sports and we have to like tape him back together before we have rehearsal. Yeah. Gotcha. So there's cardboard cutout Colins sometimes involved. Sometimes we have talked about doing a robot version of Colin in case he can't stand up during a show or something. So we're in the process of working on the technology. Gotcha. Well, I have great faith. I can't wait to see this. Um well, I wanted to ask um so for this

18:45is for both of y'all. um like I is Amaranth the first um live music that that you performed with or was there any projects before beforehand? Yeah, we both I mean I would say old Amaranth like Amaranth from my 20s was yeah probably our first serious thing out of high school where I mean yeah we got to like open for bigger bands like Switchblade Symphony or whatever you know like we we did the thing back then. Um and then this you know new Amaranth we had quite a few projects in between. and I did like a mod project. I played in, we talked about the uh guitar player

19:23from Amaran, uh Crash City Saints, stuff like that. And Colin has done a bunch of them, many of which metal. Um so I didn't get to see him play a lot because that would have meant I would have had to listen to metal. But um I knew him from the scene and you know, we talked to the point where one day we said, "What if we uh just started playing I actually uh played for a long time. Did a lot of weird experimental electronic and noise things with the old keyboard player from Amaran. That's true. That's part of how I got to know Ken. One of the many ways uh talking

20:02about it now, I remember what a small and incestuous scene Kalazoo is. I forget about that. Yeah. Yep. That's Yeah. I played in a number of bands before this and a lot of weird projects and and brapping. Yes. Yeah. We did a lot of like inviting different electronic artists in to do just live electronic experimental weird setup improvisational things and we'd do those live. We'd do those recorded all kinds of stuff like that. Um as well as yeah metal bands back in the day. So I asked because I always love like seeing the journey of how people get to where they are in in the present, right? Like how like the

20:47things that influence you to get to where you are. So um do you do you feel like you bring some of the experimental electronic um elements into Amaranth? Yeah, definitely. Um again, recording for us like I have I have the studio in the house. Um, I recorded a lot of other bands for years. I from doing the earlier projects, I just ended up with so much gear that then I felt like I was a terrible human if I didn't share that because it was just too much for one person to justify owning. Um, yeah. So, I and just trying to just doing demos and stuff like that.

21:28At some point, I realized I was better than this than most of the studios I was going to to get recordings done. So did a lot of recording for other bands and so for us studio time is just hanging out and having it's it's just fun. So, there's so much stuff that just we're playing around and and it's really just us on a Saturday night hanging out and playing and that ends up on there. And and it kind when he talks about his his gear and whatnot uh at Collins's house, there's more guitars than there are places to sit. That's that's kind of a a given

22:07there. But also, you know, aside from the music, when I met Colin, he's a very accomplished visual artist as well and went to art school and does painting and and things like that. Um, so other than music, there was a lot artistically he was still doing before kind of we started up Amaranth again. Well, when you were describing like your songwriting process, I could literally just again from chatting with y'all, I being in the fly on the wall, I I imagined just a lot of laughing and enjoying the the whole process, which it really doesn't get much better than A lot of it gets forgotten about for

22:51other people's protection. Um, we're currently working on some spaghetti western stuff. Not saying that's a good idea. It might not go anywhere. We'll see. But yeah, dumb ideas just turn into things. So yeah. Yeah, we there's a lot of that for our songwriting where we'll kind of just Colin will come up with like a beat or an idea. We'll start adding in layers and then it'll just kind of strike me um of you know an idea for a song or something. And usually I I don't know I it's not like I have the greatest voice in the world or like that's where my talent lies, but one of the ones I do

23:30have is if I have an idea in my head I can just spit lyrics that I'll use 80% of, you know, like just off the top of my head on the fly. And so usually our songwriting process involves Colin has a beat or an idea and maybe he'll say the name of the song or something, you know, one word that he had and then I'll hear that and I'll just kind of do a spit take for it and see what I come up with and see what sticks and we'll record it. Then we'll bounce a track of that and we'll go back and listen to it for a

24:06couple of weeks straight and I'll rewrite it in my head, shore it up, get it what it needs to be, and then we go re-record it. Um, and it's ready to go and we kind of have it refined in the idea. But I would say more often than not, that's what our songwriting process involves. Well, that and like a bottle of whiskey and a lot of stupidity. But other than that, you know, that's the serious part of it. The problem with this though is a lot of the time his scratch vocal is the vocal we keep. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of the time he's

24:37making up this [ __ ] as we're going and I have to try not to bust out laughing and ruin it with a live mic. Yeah. And I'm sitting there just covering my mouth and stifling laughter as because there's there's a 30% chance. That's that's it. That's the thing. That's the one we're going to do. Yeah. It is very hard sometimes. I think like famously the one we did that the most uh off the the first album uh spreading the charred remains of hope. There's a song on it called uh Taco Dip: The Things I Do for And we originally the idea for the song was this joke that like what would be

25:23the most goth depressing thing in the world and it's that you go over to your terrible racist aunt's house for like Thanksgiving and you don't want to listen to any of the crap she says, but she makes the best taco dip in the world and so you have to like eat your own while you're chowing down on the and listening to her crap being like, "Uh-huh." An choice. Yeah. Okay. Uh, and that was originally going to be the idea for this song that we had. I don't know why it happened. Is that what happened? The light went red and something unccorked in me and I did the best

26:08single vocal take of my life and it just happened to be about the amount of fingers that were appropriate uh in my bum. And it it got way out of control, way out of hand. And both the rest of the band is literally like biting their hand and arm to stop themselves from making noise as I finish and just with a straight face. I did the whole thing and everybody looked at me and they were like, "Oh my god, we have to do this as the song now, Ken, because that's the best I've ever heard you sing." Like you just unearthed something from your depths in that. and

26:56Jesus. And that is that first take is the one that is on the record. So, are there any like stray laughters that we could possibly hear that leak into the I feel like I had teeth print in my arm. I didn't. And I ended up hiding under the recording desk with a pillow over myself. I think Ian did a spit take and it hit me. Yeah. So, like at one point in the song, I like like had to rear back because he like let it like like spit water out at me by accident. So, yeah, there you go. That's a I don't know that we've really uh gotten into that story

27:38on an interview before. So, there you you have the true story of Taco Dip. now we know. So, are you going to be doing this song? actually um you know it's a nightmare to play live is it it just weirdly had like key changes and all but yeah we will occasionally uh but no it's not on the on the docket for uh fixation. We we do have a lot of new songs that we're going to be playing for the first time there and some other uh surprises. Uh we have a very special cover uh for someone uh that we're going to play that night. Um

28:23but yeah, no, we probably won't bust out Taco Dip for that one. But if we play again, we should set a a show for uh Amaranth and Alice and we'll do Taco Dip for that one. Yay. We have I I make the guitars that we play and Wow. So yeah, um there's a problem of there's there's also like 32 guitars in the studio. Like when Ken was saying there's more places more guitars than there are places. It was not an exaggeration. There's there's the guitar. It used to be a couch, but now it's just a guitar stand. So Wow. That's you don't that's that's for guitars.

29:05Yeah. So again, when we start recording, um, a lot of time we're just grabbing random different guitars. And this is great. And we're getting, we're trying to figure out how we can play some more of these songs live easily without bringing seven weird eight string guitar that he decided to use randomly on this one song. And Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So sometimes there are some songs that we're finding difficult to figure out how to play live without. Also, we're lazy and we don't want to bring anything more than we can fit with the three of us in a car. That's that's it. So more guitars and we're very anti- amp. Yeah.

29:47Yeah. No, we get snobby. We look down at like other bands carrying in like vint or we're like, "Oh, have fun carrying that amp." Whatever. We don't use amps. Amps are for suckers. I actually that that that that actually leads a question where I was wondering um yeah like with it sounds like you with being able to be like really creative um in the studio like how how do you guys um decide what to do live and and what is your approach with that? Uh they come up with ideas and I tell them if I can figure out how to do it or easily or not. That's that's pretty much

30:24it. Um, I mean, do do we have a good a good plan and do we have the equipment to make that so we can do that with bringing as minimal gear as possible? But I mean, we do put a fair amount of thought I think into it and talk about it, you know, say we're playing with like because we do have cuz we're so weird. Like we have a really wide range of styles to our music. Like everything that could possibly fall under the goth industrial umbrella, we have songs within that. And so if we're playing with somebody that's closer to like industrial metal or something harder,

31:06like we have a hard set we could play that has, you know, like some pretty intense loud stuff. if we're playing with, I don't know, a sca band or something, we have very silly sets that is easy for us to put together and also stuff in between, you know. So, yeah, we do think about that and we kind of try and match our set to what the the show or the venue is. I think that's brilliant. I mean, I um you know, for for bands that I know have like kind of a diverse spectrum, I think that's actually brilliant. And I mean, the fact that you can even go towards

31:43SCA, that's amazing. Like, not many bands in the in the dark alternative scene, I think, could do that. Our our current guitar player, Damian, was in a Scott band for a long time. So, yeah, that that has come up. And I mean, that's just it. If you looked at like our influences though, it's, you know, Dead Milkman meets 9in Nails meets, you know, Sisters of Mercy or whatever. Like, but Weird Al, Dead Milkman, those are definitely in there. And so, you know, I it's a part of who we are and we very much just embrace that we're kind of ridiculous and and we own that.

32:26I think that's awesome. I mean it's it's again it's a breath of fresh air. Um and I think it invites other people to be able to just drop their guard and be like oh you mean I too can be silly and just you know my whole rotten self and and there's a lot of big you know we got to open a couple years back for Voltater for example who was a big deal to me. I mean, as somebody who kind of invented Comedy, God, you know, and getting to open for him and kind of do our silly thing along with that. And I felt the same way when I heard

33:03him, you know, as somebody who coming out of high school was just it all has to be just as sad as humanly possible, like every day just mascara streaking down my guiltridden face, you know, you know, and and then hearing him and being able to be like, "Oh, this this song is about killing my ex-lovers lovers." Brilliant. Like goth can be this, too. It can be anything. And I think that's one of the big jokes like in the Sounds and Shadows always when people try and what is Goth and I'm like if I roll my eyes any harder they'll fall out of my head because I

33:43don't know. Goth is whatever I say it is, you know? Like why why do you care? Like none of us came firing into this world out of our mother's womb with an intricate knowledge of the Sisters of Mercy Bides or something, you know? like we all came into this when we came into it and that's okay. Like you you don't get I don't know a pension or something for how many years you have in the scene. And a lot of times when people act like that like oh because I saw this band before you were born it must mean I'm so much cooler. And I I mean yeah

34:17that's cool man that's rad. But I don't know like that's not really what it's about. It's about trying to share with other people this thing that we're all into and the idea that the macob and the dark is something that we all relate to on a human level and find beauty in. And to me, we're a small enough scene as it is. We don't need to be pushing anybody else out because they happen to be born after 1965, you know, like that's just I don't know, very I I worry sometimes about the goth scene that it's so focused on the past that it doesn't allow itself to grow. And that's what's

35:06been so exciting for me with Sounds and Shadows and in the last 6 years, like I said, in particular, this kind of goth renaissance that I'm seeing young people fired, you know, going to a vision video show and I am by 20 years the oldest mofo there. And like these kids are just fired up like looking at Dusty, jumping up and down, dancing. And I'm like, "This was me 30 years ago." and they are that excited and I feel like they're going to carry this on for us for another 20 years, you know, and that's what fills me with hope. Yeah, absolutely. Um Yeah. No, I mean,

35:48you know, speaking of Sounds and Shadows, um like what what was your inspiration in in starting it? It's just such a beautiful community truly so inviting and so I feel welcoming to to you know for for people. So, So it started out um it was a love letter to twin tribes. It was I that was what it originally what sounds Joe started is. Uh, I got, like I said, I went through this period where I kind of just gave up on there being new music I would like, you know, and all of a sudden I started finding Twin Tribes after some of these bands and I got rip, roar, and wasted

36:31one night and just went, you know what, these Twin Tribes, people need to know about this and if I don't tell them, who Well, so I got on Facebook and typed like a I don't know like 12 paragraph love letter to the album Shadows by Twin Tribes and just posted on Facebook and woke up and kind of went, "Oh, did that happen last night? Weird." And I woke up and Twin Tribes had found it and shared it and other people were com and people were really into it. And so I did a few more and a few more and eventually it got to the point where I got a website to do it

37:20because the reviews were I don't know having that kind of popular and it was a big deal to me. I love doing. I'm like, "Oh my god, I'm not the only one. Like other people are fired up about this now." And how the group came about um was just I had started doing the interviews then a little bit and doing the reviews, but Facebook the algorithm isn't great for that, sharing things that you know are to a website or something. But the loophole of that was that if you had a group and people kind of signed up for, hey, I want to see things shared by this group, then it

38:00would kind of override the algorithm. So really, I just started out doing it as a way that people would see my reviews and interviews when I shared them. But then it's me, as you might have noticed, I get a little verbose at times. And so I started wanting to get conversations going and I would post a question or a you know has anyone ever thought about this? What are your thoughts? and you know kind of reminded me of the old bulletin board systems that I used to do like you know in high school that I guess were kind of the precursor to Facebook which was you know these sites

38:36you'd go to and yeah you could share ideas or topics or questions and because we had bands that I worked with and that I'd reviewed where some pretty bigname bands were there people would post questions then and you never know who was going to answer it. I mean, it could be like Rodney Orpheus, you know, from Cassander Complex or something gives you production advice and people are like, "Wait, is that real? Did that just happen?" So, the the group started kind of taking off from that and got a life of its own. And right from the get-go, I just wanted it to be nice. Like, the

39:13internet is so full of just people trying to be cool or one up or have a hot take. And I was so sick of it. So, I just wanted to build a place where if you say anything even remotely shitty to someone else, I just block you and and just boot you out. And it turns out that's what everybody wanted. And so, the group just grew and g I think I made a joke today that I think we're around like 8,000 people in it. and that I still to this day treat every person who tries to join Sounds and Shadows like I'm the door guy at Berdine in uh

39:53Berlin, which is like this club that's like notoriously like the hardest club to get into. But I am that, you know, scrutiny on your answer to the four questions that I'm amazed we have this many people in the group because I probably block 10 for everyone I let in cuz most of them are bots and stuff, you know, and I I don't either or selling something. So yes. Yeah. I I mean I think that's it's it's really amazing to see how you know the seed of something grows into what it is because like you were saying I think the community as it is you do see like

40:32people will have like really like you know questions about production like you were saying or questions about like oh how do I find a show in this region and and it seems like people are truly kind. So, I think that's the big part of it is people feel okay to ask that stuff because you're not going to get like 10 edge lords taking a [ __ ] on them for asking a legitimate question, but they just don't have that many experience in yet. Maybe they're just starting out or something like that. And yeah, like I've pretty much sorted out all those edge lords by now. They really there are

41:06every once in a while someone will, you know, but it is I'm very quick on the take of it and I I just don't even wait a moment. And I'm like, "Wow, you sound crappy. Bye." Like that. And life can be that way when you're online. Like you can you can just build that kind of a world and word gets around and now people just know not to do it. And I think like it's a community where the energy Ken had with this was so much like I want to see your cool stuff. Show me I love I love all your cool art. I love all your cool music.

41:43show me what you're doing. Like, I'm really want to hear it. I really want to see it. And and I feel like that at the core has just been something that has continued of everybody is just show me what you're doing. Like I want to hear your new stuff. It's not just like I'm advertising it. Like other people are saying what are you working on? Please show me what you're doing. Yeah. Um, and I think the other side of that too is like musicians are we love what we do. We love all the elements of that. And so there's there's gear forums where you have people just

42:20hanging out in their basement that hate everybody else that's actually doing something. And then you have something like this where you have actual musicians and actual artists that are you ask your question like I love this stuff. I want to share it. I there's somebody else that wants to hear me talk about synthesizers. Yes. I I couldn't be happier that somebody cares about a low pass filter. So, it's it's such a good community for that because again, this is it's all kind of nerdy. I I think that was like especially in the beginning on Sounds and Shadows for the group in particular that it it worked

43:04because I was that excited. That's just it. Like those early reviews and everything, I they were truly love letters. And I think when it comes to music reviews, that's what people actually want. you know, they don't, you know, I have never written a negative review and like it's kind of this thing because there is so much new music now. I always feel like there is a freaking title wave coming over me at all times where I can't even so I don't have time like to li I have to listen five times to a record before I'll review it or something to to feel good that I got the

43:41gist of it. And I can't imagine listening to something five times I didn't like just to [ __ ] on it. Like that is a level of negativity that I I don't know, maybe somebody possesses, but I sure don't. And so I just like writing about the stuff I love. And I think that's what people want anyway because people aren't going to you to find out what not to buy. You know, people are are coming to my music reviews cuz they can tell. Good God, he is almost too excited about this. You have a very goth St. Bernard energy that's kind of freaking me out, bro. And

44:21but at least, you know what? I guess I should probably listen to this record because if you were this fired up about it, um it must have some redeemable value. And I think that's why my reviews have Yeah. like led a lot of people to the the scene and and the music that we do. So, well, you're you're getting some love in the chat. I just wanted to share um Pete Russo is saying um that he's been there less than five minutes and this gentleman is speaking to my soul. I love that so much, Pete. Um Dusty Chalk says, "So say we Um also saying, "Here, here is the

44:59worst." Yes. Yes. I love it. Um yeah. Uh, no, I mean it it's it's I think it's really beautiful that your approach to your own music which is with real like you know enthusiasm and joy has been like that energy has been brought into the community as well. Um, and it's it it really inspires I think other people also to share that joy where they're like oh I too am excited about this thing and we can we can like chat about that you know. Yeah. and and I there has I I get to watch all the time. That's the other thing that's beautiful in kind

45:34of the Sounds and Shadows family is just me watching how many collaborations have come of it where I know that like I watched a topic or something that was there and two people met and started talking about this and then weeks later I find out that they did a guest vocal on this person's album or you know you know stuff like uh you know the burying kind with uh you know Dan and uh you Scott and just people that I respected both their bands and like them where they found each other through this and then made something else as a result of it and I get to I don't know feel a

46:16little piece of that myself, you know, little little maggerenta. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's I always joke when I like cuz I'll do that a lot. I'll be talking to someone. I'll be like, "Hold on. You know who would be able to help you with this? Give me one second. I'm going to create a chat." And I'll put both on there and I'll say, "Hey, this person, this is this person. They're into this and blah blah blah this and you could help them because of this, this, and this goth yenta." And then I'll just leave the chat and like that's like my favorite thing in the world. I love it.

46:47Well, I that actually makes me like um like wonder in terms of um I guess the like the fact that you're constantly exposed to to new music and new artists like has that changed the way that y'all listen and create Yeah. I mean, I've always stolen like but but but now I find myself doing it uh from brilliant new artists and you know taking their vibe too and no like I I think that's that's great and I would say yeah my perspective has changed and expanded and I found stuff that was a synthesis that someone else did that I didn't even know existed like witch house or something and you know

47:38find myself wanting it or we talked about electronic saviors uh coming up. We have a song on it with dog tablet and the legendary Martin King of Test Department uh brought us in to help on the track and we ended up uh making uh you know industrial outlaw country and I I I don't know how that would have happened otherwise but it was you know I was kind of inspired by a couple other yeha goth artists that we saw recently and so Yep. Yep. Yeah. which I didn't even know I wouldn't know existed without this. That's a thing. That's a thing. You'll probably meet Kun, one of

48:18my favorite Yeeha goth artists. Uh I'm sure that he'll be there at uh Fixation. So that's a great Detroit band to check out. I'm excited. Oh, they're so Yeah, they they do like Yeeha Goth in assless chaps with a theramin and you haven't lived until you witness. You don't even know. You don't even know. It's You need Oh my gosh. Yeah. This is amazing. I love I love the the music that you're sharing that actually it's coming out of Michigan. Like you're like I'm I feel like I'm learning already. Like this is exciting. Um are you going to be able to stay for um like um the

48:58whole festival or you Yeah. Yeah, we'll be Yeah, I'll be there Friday, too. Um, and you know there again because of Sounds and Shadows, these bands become friends and I talk and but some of them will talk for years online before they come through town or whatever. I'll meet him in person. So yeah, there's definitely some people that night that I'm really excited. Um, like the band night from Texas uh is coming through there on Friday. Uh, so we're really excited for that. And I've interviewed uh the Twins before, but I've never uh met them in person. So, I'm excited to see them play live and meet them in

49:35person. Yeah, we've played with Knight uh in Texas, and they're just wonderful. Amazing. It'll it'll be a treat. So, yeah, super talented. I actually I noticed um Colin, you're wearing a Bellhead shirt, and we love we love those guys. We've we've played with them as well, so I can't wait. It's going to be a really special night, I think. Yeah, Karen and Ivid are, you know, just good friends and have been wonderful and, you know, people we've hung out with a lot. Um, and just in general especially, Karen kind of, you know, has become like my goth mom for the scene and I'll check in on me, make sure that

50:09I'm drinking enough water, stuff like that. Like she's I love it. Yeah. Yeah. We played with them in Madison and also in Chicago. So nice. Well, and as a bass player. Two bases. two basis is better than one base. So, yes, I know it's pretty amazing. Um, oh, and um, uh, Amy is saying, "Nothing but facts and much love." Sending much love back to y'all. U, Pete was saying, "Seal from one source and it's thievery. Steal from many and it's inspired." Exactly. And I mean, I think there's a difference too between, I don't know, stealing a baseline straight up from another band, which is not cool, or

50:57having a tonal inspiration or tip of the hat. Like, uh, on the new single um, for Cat, Depes Mode was her favorite band. I mean, that, you know, she had the tattoo. a lot of people afterwards in the Detroit scene got the same tattoo, you know, to kind of honor her there. And so when we did the song, we threw in the word black celebration to it as just an homage to both her and Depes Mode at the same time. You know, it's not like we, you know, took that as part of the lyrics or based around it, but but a tip of the hat is, I think, a cool thing to

51:38do from artist to artist. Yeah, absolutely. Um I I could definitely hear the Depes Mode influence in the production and and the lyrics as well. I was like, "Oh, Black Celebration. Now I I can put those dots together." So, yeah, huge Depes Pesh Mode fan here. So, I love that. Um well, um speaking of influences. Okay. um current influences like are there any particular like artists that are like you're like this is amazing? That is a tough question for me because yes, 500 of them. Um you know, as somebody who kind of runs the a music review page for all this stuff, good god, I could we could talk the next four

52:26hours of me just going through all the bands. But yeah, there's some big top ones in there. I know I briefly mentioned uh Vision Video and Dusty, but to me getting to know him, like hang out with him and see him play shows and watch the way he inspires young people towards this scene is just incredible to me. Um, and aside from that, the fact that he does that, he took something that was a joke or a gimmick of this character, used that on TikTok to lure people over to hearing his band. But here's the thing, it doesn't do you any good unless your band is

53:13amazing. You know what I mean? Like you could get people to like listen for 5 seconds, but unless vision video is as good as vision video, it it doesn't do him any good or go anywhere. So then he gets him there and on top of that he is like the most leftist, you know, politic person with this punk rock ethos and says it openly at all of his shows and makes it about that. And then I watch these 20-year-old kids ready to like grab sides and pitchforks and follow Dusty up the hill because they're that inspired by it. And like, Joe Strummer, get back. Like,

53:56damn, son. And I I just love the effect that he has on that. So, I I think I hear stuff like that. Or obviously Joelle and Louise and Twin Tribes have been a a huge one. um actors um Jason uh and and the rest of actors have meant a lot to us in that um ego likeness you know Donna and Steven there's there's a ton of these bands uh Bellweather Syndicate um that that are big inspirations to me but also have turned into friends you know and it's so weird to have that too like the logo behind us for Sounds and Shadows and the amaran

54:39one was done by Jim Marcus. And I mean, when I was 15, one of the first industrial shows I got to go see was, you know, Jim along with Switchblade, uh, I mean, uh, Sister Machine Gun. Um, but getting to see Die Warsaw. And years later, I was reviewing a single kind of when Sounds and Shadows was starting out, one of the early ones for this band called Go Fight. and I didn't know this and I was just like, "Hey, a guy that does this, would you be willing to do an interview?" And it turns out I then am doing research for that interview for

55:20podcast and I look it up and I'm like, "Oh, this band is Jim. Wait, that Jim Mar." And I'm like, "Oh my god, I've been talking to him like an idiot this entire time and it's freaking Jim And we we hit it off. We talked a lot and I came time for sounds and shadows where I had my own web page and it was starting to really blow up and I was just like, "Hey, do I know anybody in the group right now that does like graphic design and logos cuz I I need to get one." And Jim reached out and he was like, "Yeah, I I do that." I'm like,

55:53"Yeah, I know you do, Jim, but I cannot afford you." I was just like, "You do locals for like international companies and stuff like uh that is not a part of my budget." And he goes, "Ken, we're friends. Like, I'll I'll take care of it. We'll work it out." And I just stopped for a minute. I'm like, "Jim Marcus and me are friends." Oh, okay. And like I've had a lot of moments like that. So, it's both the bands and the music are inspirational to me in a lot of ways on that because I genuinely love this [ __ ] But at the same time also I've been inspired by

56:31awesome people that like care about lifting up others in the scene. And that's become a big part of the tapestry of Sounds and Shadows. It's also a funny story. I'm going to I'm going to self-own myself here. Are you going to talk about the story about the logo when you were telling Oh god, that's what I was hoping. So, as you can see behind me, this beautiful logo that Jim put together and especially like I said where he came up with this idea of this community and the idea of it is so built on like looking out for each other and so intertwining them and putting the

57:06plus symbol in like he did and everything. But at first he was like, "So, what do you have in mind, Ken?" I'm like, "You know, I don't know. Just something simple, man. Like sounds and shadows with like, you know, goth. So, like maybe like a black and red or something. Look, Eddie goes, "Uhhuh, Ken, what you're describing to me sounds an awful lot like uh Nazi shit." And I was like, and and Jim is the most like hardleft, you know, liberal guy. And I was just like, "Oh, no." He goes, "This is why you hire a graphic designer, Ken. I'm going to fix that problem. And so if it wouldn't have been

57:50for Jim, I would have probably got cancelled before we even uh got off like the first two reviews. So unintentionally with just bad graphic just that I have no visual eye. That's uh he saved me on that one. He took a bullet for me there. That was good looking out, Jim. Oh man, thank goodness for our friends, right? Especially the ones that can do the things that we can't do. Like we were talking about it helps to have like um people that have their own items in their picnic baskets and they're like, "Oh, I I have this in my picnic basket." So, yes. I think on I know musically too though

58:34we're there's there's so many of I think our friends are a huge inspiration but I think it's also funny just because the inspirations that we have are oftentimes so just all over the board and and depends on the week um depends on what band we just saw and what I'm I cuz I like I like a lot of like high lung and Ivor and that kind of stuff and M I'm going to see Spirit Box in a couple weeks and so like I'm going to be playing some eight string heavy riffs for weeks on end after that pumped up and that might creep in and so the

59:15musical influences are pretty pretty broad and I I think that again that does come in but at the same time it's are the general umbrella of the main things that we love and and also like what you create is not necessarily what to listen to. Um though what we create is often what we listen to for us. But uh well I mean and I think too like there is difference um in colonized like I said I mean he'll do a lot more in terms of metal and I would say that Colin leans more towards the frog and complexity whereas me I'm more leaning towards bands that are

59:58about lyrics and melody and things like that. And so when we get together to write, I think that's a part of it, too, where we push and pull each other towards the middle and and come up with something that isn't just four chords in a dream with a really good clever poem over it or 27 key changes and uh 14 different overlapping guitar riffs where we we both give a bit and then come into something that is a little bit complex. Lex, but also a solid enough simple core that people can latch on to it. He only lets me get one key change per Actually, Colin, I wanted to ask um do

1:00:49you get inspiration for like like the next guitar you'll build? Like I was curious if you have any ideas for future Go ahead, Colin. Grab it. I made sure he brought one just in case. I don't know if work. Oh, here. I'll probably have to move off so that you can Oh my gosh. It's not Oh, we got a little bit of it. We got a little filters. But to be clear, like, you know, just gets a block of freaking wood. We're not talking about he like puts a kit together. Yeah. He carves like the wood from scratch. Does all of this, all of the inlays, puts, you know,

1:01:30the parts together. I mean, this is a a labor of love every time he does one of these. And they're all pretty amazing. And a lot of bands in the scene now have started to show up with Colin Shipper guitars like Witch Hands, uh, you know, uh, Kentucky Vampire, you know, stuff like that. We'll see Colin's guitars out in live videos of bands playing and everything. That's exciting. Yeah. Um, inspiration. Uh, so this is where the stupid I I love process. I love process in all things. I like obsessive, ridiculous processes that don't need to make sense. Um, things that are gratuitously difficult for no good

1:02:17Um, and yeah, I think there's that I love materials. I love the things we work with, you know, like paint is paint. And I like when paintings look like they're made of paint and it's thick and it's viscous and it has you want to lick it because it has just flavor. And I had a bit of a tide problem there. The forbidden paint. Yeah. So, it's stupid. I know it's stupid and I know it's ridiculous, but I also like I do I I get I'll see a beautiful piece of wood and I think, "Wow, that's a beautiful piece of wood." And yeah, it's it's got shapes in it.

1:03:05It's got the way the grain goes and and so there's you have limitations. And again, I think that's an important thing. Uh, I I love placing rules and limitations on things and and that's one of the reasons I got into making this is is I like those constructs that we can put on things. And so within this within this form I have to, you know, there's elements I have to use, elements I have to stick with in order to make it work. And then trying to find out what the materials want to be within that, which is that hyperromantic idea of you have to listen to the wood. Yeah.

1:03:45And sometimes you just slip and now you have a new shape because your bandsaw went too far. So, we're going to be creative because uh it's an expensive piece of wood. But everybody should definitely go on Instagram and look up because it has all there where you could see the Pikachu guitar, the unicorn death metal guitar, the uh amaranth guitar, and my personal favorite that I like to steal and play at shows, the uh guitar that is this beautiful hollow body that looks like a violin or a Oh, that sounds amazing. So, um, is it what what is the Instagram handle to see all all of your guitar work? Just Colin

1:04:30Skipper. C O L L I N C H I P E R. Awesome. I d like the That's not the Instagram one, but that's the the Yeah, the branding is Arts Dascese Guitars. Um, I'm terrible about all things social media. I wouldn't exist on there if Ken didn't tag me and do things. So, if if you want to get like one of the coolest guitars you possibly could in any style you could imagine. Yeah. Reach out to me and I'll make Colin respond to you. That's and I will take my sweet time because I only do it when I want to do it and when it feels right and when I

1:05:09love doing it. So, I'm very slow because it's a I want them all everything. I only work on them when I want when I feel passionate about it. So I I want it to be not because I have to, but it's my something I get to put something into. So yeah, absolutely. Well, I I I am a huge fan of of woodwork. I love like you were saying, I I myself don't do woodwork, but I really admire and love the craft of it. Um I I was curious like how like how you choose do is there particular wood that you prefer to work with or are you kind of

1:05:47like he does it different like every other time. Okay. Yeah. He he gets bored of wood. I mean let me tell you that guy goes through a lot of wood. Like he'll try it one time then he's got to touch another piece of wood. Then you know he touches that one twice and all of a sudden he's like I'm bored of this wood. I want to touch some other wood. And it's just non-stoping hands on wood. Basically, you just just got to polish those knobs until they're nice and shiny. That's all I really care. And then you move on to the next. Exactly. How it works. There's always another

1:06:18piece of wood to be polished. Yep. Well, I'm excited to see your work. That's really amazing. It's something with us. I do not know. With love. With lots of love. Oh, yeah. No, I think it's it's absolutely wonderful to see um that you you both are multi-dimensional artists um and that find true joy um you know in whatever you do whether it's the community or you know the craft or the or the music itself. I think that's really beautiful and very inspiring. God knows it's not like uh you know David Geffin is calling us to send a private jet. So, I it's important that it's fun because uh why else would you

1:07:06do this, you know, in 2025? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I it's something I I was talking about this with Mark Paradise um last week that I I really feel like we love Mark. Yeah, I've interviewed him before, too. Great. Just super cool dude. Yeah, just I I I feel like uh you know, in music you it really is a labor of love. Um, you know, so you know, we we are here because we love it and we love the community. So yeah, I think people forget that sometimes too that, you know, they see artists trying to put themselves out there and trying to do this and I don't

1:07:43know, we'll get turned off thinking that it comes across as a little too thirsty or you're always sending me about your project or your, you know, but I you have to love the thing you're doing or else how can you expect anybody else to and and I think people should talk about their art that excited. because that's what makes other people want to be invested is because you genuinely care, you know. Yeah, absolutely. Would you say that be like a good piece of advice and wisdom for somebody just starting out just to find the joy? I I think that's imperative that you have to I think the other thing

1:08:24I say to people all the time is just this one because it is frustrating right with 10,000 bands out there right now to get any kind of notice right is the best thing that ever happened in terms of people knowing about our band was me writing about other bands like honestly like and so that's the thing I'd say to people is start celebrating other bands in the scene because it's going to come back around to you. And and I try and tell people when they join kind of sounds and shadows and sharing maybe about their project at first, I always say make sure that you're going through listening to

1:09:09other people's things, commenting on them. comment a bit on the I don't know music that you enjoy that you hear there because this hasn't actually changed since the era of social media. Social media can get you fans in a very basic level if you already have a base that has to come from in real life. And and it doesn't necessarily have to mean that you know it's people in your local town. It could be people you're just talking to online like I do, but you have to actually know them. You have to actually talk to them about treat them like people and then talk excitedly about

1:09:53your thing and they'll be genuinely interested to try it because you've talked to them about their thing too and been involved with them. Once you have a core of people that do that and are willing to kind of do what I just did a second ago and be like, "Dude, if you want to know about Yeeha Goth in Detroit, it's the band Crew. Uh, CRU NE, you have to check it out." You start doing that a bit and have people hearing you do that and you showing up to shows, not just put up a Facebook flyer, okay? You need to go to shows and be seen and

1:10:33be there. Okay, now people are ready to invest in you. And once you have a core of people have done that, it will start to just get the ball rolling. And just doing stuff online can help you at that point. But unless you start with step one and step two, you are never going to get to three or four. And on top of that, I tell people a lot in the group, record labels where they think they're on step one and they're like, "Oh, I need to sign with a record label." In 2025, you don't because a record label is great to get you from five to six,

1:11:13seven or eight. But you have to get yourself one to five before a record label A can do you any good. and definitely until you can do them any good. And nobody's going to want to do that for you unless you have a value to them in that sense. And I think that's one of the things that I don't know, for some reason doesn't get taught or doesn't occur anymore and and people expect it to happen in reverse the other way where they think just sharing on social media is going to have them blow up as an artist when it isn't. Like if you look at the bands that are truly

1:11:53successful in our scene, like we've talked about like your Twin Tribes, your actors, your Vision Video, they tour nonstop. You want to talk about people that are working hard out there because it is not easy to live your life in a freaking van for six months out of the year. And that's what they do and that's what it takes. And most people do not want to do that. I sure as hell don't. Like if you offered me the same amount of money I make at my straight job to like get in a van and smell Colin's farts and drive around the country and not see my cats or Rachel. Like hard

1:12:34pass, you know? Like, okay, there is a dollar amount that puts me in that van, but it is it is not where I'm at right now and not one that anybody is willing to give me, you know? And I I think that's I don't know like rethinking what it means to be a working musician these days. Yeah. Cuz almost all of us do have day jobs now. I know very few musicians that just that's all they do. Yeah. I think you Yeah. Like you said, do you you need to love what you're doing and do it because you love doing it. Yeah. You need to love the scene and love the

1:13:14people in it because if you don't and if you're [ __ ] on them because you think that your stuff is better than we all know that local band guy. Yeah. Sitting in the back of the show talking [ __ ] like you're not going to buy anybody. Nobody likes that guy. Nobody likes that guy. You're not going to get anywhere. I think, you know, I and if you're really socially awkward, get yourself a Mag Bear and cuz And if you don't know how to set your own guitar effects processor, you know, it goes both ways. Yep. Uh I mean, it's a community. I think that's part of it is realizing that you're part of a

1:13:49community and and being part of that. It's the same thing, you know, in art shows like you could be the best painter in the world of whatever genre of painting, but if you don't go out and talk to people and be present and and be at those shows, no one is going to want you to be in those shows with them because nobody's going to know you exist. Like, you have to put yourself out there. And that's scary and terrifying and hard and difficult. But if you love what you're doing, just like relax. and other people are scared too and realizing that they're all in that

1:14:24same boat or at least at some point you are. We've all been there. So just going out there and trying and and enjoying it, enjoying the scene you're in, enjoy being part of that is so important and you're not going to get anywhere without that. I think that's another thing in Goth Industrial that honestly has always surprised me since I've kind of gotten to this side of it where I know this many people that far above us, you know, people just starting out, kind of the entire spectrum of it, that most of the good ones really appreciate that this scene just isn't that large and they're just down to

1:15:07earth cool people. I've met, I'm not gonna say none, but very few uh artists that I was really into like this that I end up meeting them where they ended up just being douches, you know, like it honestly most of them are just really cool, humble people and that's the reason that they're successful is because they have a sense of Yeah, absolutely. Um I I myself am really really shy. I'm a super introvert. Um but I love going to shows and I find the same thing like um at the very least um when I go to the merch table um I find that it's very inviting.

1:15:51It's very welcoming. Like I always feel like oh other nerds that I can talk to. This is great. I think that's one of the beautiful things about it is like that realization. I it's so easy to get starruck and there's so many pretty and beautiful people that you just say, "Oh, you're too pretty to talk to like with everybody when you go out to these shows and it's I I think they're they don't think they're better than you. They're also introverts." Like almost all of us are introverts there. So, just yeah, not being afraid to compliment somebody on their awesome boots and start a conversation or talk

1:16:34about their band. Like, they want to talk about their band. Yeah. They're so ready to talk about their band. Please talk about their band. So yeah, I think that's another thing that surprised me in the early days of Sounds and Shadows, too, is I had a few people that were like I wrote a review of them of an album I loved and they reached back out to me. I didn't know them, you know, but I wrote the review and they reached back out to me after reading it and were like, "Ken," this was like a pretty bigname artist. I don't really want to, you know, say the name of, but a pretty

1:17:04bigname one. and they reached out and they were like, "Ken, like honestly, I was reaching a bit the end of my rope of why do I still do this? And should I even still?" And I read your review and I felt like here's somebody who really got it, who understood why I wrote this record and what it was about. And like I started like like balling pretty much, you know? I'm typing to this person, but I'm like, really? Okay, man. Cool. Cuz I love your record. And you know, I guess what I'm trying to say is while people are still alive, tell them that you appreciate

1:17:49their art and appreciate that they do it. Cuz you'd be surprised people way up the chain that still need to hear that. and and it still matters, especially when it's genuine and it comes from the heart. So, go out and write reviews. Even if it's just on Facebook or if you want to write for me, reach out. I always need PE I have more stuff than I could ever write about and I could always use more, but tell people, send a love letter to a band because they need it more than you know. And and they they won't laugh at you or think you're dumb

1:18:24for doing it. Honestly, they they need that and appreciate it. And I am amazed by the level of people that have reached back out to me and said what one of my reviews meant to them. Somebody who I wouldn't even think they knew I existed. I shockingly have run into it very little where I get starruck just because I don't stop to think very often. So, it kind of helps me from, you know, worrying about how absurd I seem in this situation, like the stabbing westward thing. Um, but it it doesn't happen much like other than Paul Barker where he Okay. Okay. That was one. You

1:19:03you're you play bass good. You you play bass what? And then he came back an hour later because he was gonna fix this and said, "Bass good." and then left. Yeah, that was one. Okay. Okay. But that was Paul Barker. I think the other one maybe as well like Chris Connelly, but like other than those two, I feel like I've managed to be pretty chill during any interviews that I've done. I mean, there's definitely the understandable ones, you know, I could understand. I was pretty buzzed for that one, too. And it just like we were it was at uh uh in Chicago at Cold Waves

1:19:47and we're at the afterparty and Matt Finale is like spinning down there and it's just you can't even breathe just human to human like shouldertosh shoulder moving through this basement and I just I come through a cloud of smoke and there's Paul Bark and I'm like you you're you're a you are you are Paul Paul and he goes Yes. Yes, I am. You You play bass. You I I do. You play bass well. So So well. So well. And he was like, "Thank you." And just like kept walking. But yeah. All right. I flubbed that one. But the rest of them I was doing great.

1:20:36You know, you probably put a smile on his face. Yeah, he did smile. I don't know if it was with me or at me, but he did smile. Yep. I mean, if you can bring joy in some form or fashion. I'll take it. I'll take it. Yeah, I definitely have my my share of of fan girly moments, so I understand. Well, you just you lose your tongue. Just words don't really come out. A lot. I just do it eloquently still. But I mean, I'm still very much like, "Hi, I like you. You're Do you know who you are? Do you have any idea? You're so great."

1:21:25Oh my gosh. Yeah, I I definitely have my share. I don't know. Colin, is there is there anybody that you could meet that could perhaps I'm pretty dumb. I I I don't I don't I mean I have many moments where I can't talk to people, but that's just cuz I have many moments where I can't talk to people. It has nothing to do with their star level. I'm pretty good on that. I do I think I've been pretty good since when I was 16. The band I was in was opening for Kitty and they were the same age as me and I met them and I I don't

1:22:01know why. It was one of the first shows I got to play where I was opening for a bigger band and I met them and all that came out of my mouth was hi and I just I couldn't do anything. I my limbs didn't work anymore. Just you don't actually have to be famous to do that to call it. Yeah, it depends. There's just sometimes I just fall apart. But that doesn't it's not because you're famous. I just don't work all the That's okay. I think that's true for all of us. But we've been pretty good. And when I haven't been as active, but in

1:22:40all the interviews and when meeting people, I I we're all people. So, it hasn't bothered me too much. And like I said, everybody I talk to is just excited to talk about what they do. So, just like this, actually, we so recently um we did a show last year in Lancing, Michigan. uh very cool for like a uh goth festival type thing that they did there and they asked us to come play. We had a great time. Played a good show. They had a lot of like drag queen and king performers there that we played with and us and uh another band and it was a blast. We had a good time. And

1:23:20part of that, the sound engineer, who's one of the promoters for the show, came up to Colin afterwards and wanted to talk all about his guitars that he had made and like, you know, what we were using in terms of equipment and they talked all night. So, they had a rapport. Well, this year they want we're going to play another show there coming up here uh at the end of May. And uh but instead of reaching out to me, they re he felt so comfortable because he talked reached out to Colin and Colin like came to be like, "Dear in headlights, Ken, there is someone trying to contact me

1:23:55about a gig. Why are they doing this? Have they talked to you already?" No, they haven't. They You guys talked. You had a connection there. They want to talk. Um Okay. So, what do I say to them now? Well, do you want to do the show? Uh, yes, we'll do the show. Oh, well then that's what you should say to him. And you know what? I'll I'll take it from here. It's fine. But yeah, it was funny. He was just like, why would he why would he try and talk to me because he liked you, Colin? Yes. I mean, I imagine that that um whether

1:24:34you realize it or not, you are inspiring to other people. I think this goes across the board, you know. Plus, he's a razor hottie, so I mean, he doesn't get that either. A I think when it comes down to it, you know, you really do, it's like inspiration is infectious. Um, and you know, in in listening to you talk about, you know, both of your processes and and such, I feel like other people probably are like, well, how do I become, you know, inspired in my process? Like, how how do I find that, you know, play? Yeah, play. I mean, what inspires us? You know,

1:25:20probably our most popular song was inspired by the movie uh Miami Connection from the 80s about ninjas uh in a band who do spin kicks, you know. Uh and that's what inspired Miami Nights and Ninja. We just watched it the night before, were very hung over and decided to make it into a song. Yep. Capture the mood. Yes. So you mentioned um is it did you say an EP that's coming up or a full length? We uh we just put out the So the stuff we have coming up is we have on electronic saviors the song with dog tablet uh the uh you know industrial uh outlaw country

1:26:08uh that's on disc two of electronic saviors for this year. And then uh we have the single we just put out for Cat. And then the next uh big thing that we're going to be putting out will be the EP, which I think is going to be five songs that, like I said, are all based on Dungeons and Dragons characters that uh Damian and I have run in game that we then turned into a a song like a necromancer who wants to uh raise up the dead to throw a rave. Um, we have one about a paladin uh who cannot uh achieve uh arousal uh unless he's wearing his

1:26:55armor. So, he just gave up and gave himself to the church because he figured, well, this won't do me any good anyway, so I guess I'll just be hard in my armor. And uh you know, we have a plethora of these like ideas that we've spun through and we're trying to get in on that sweet sweet con money. We're going to start like, you know, hitting up like Gen Con and stuff like, "Hey, do you like goth bands that play D&D songs?" Cuz Love it. That one's probably going to be a while. We did just put out an out an album not that long ago. Gothamism.

1:27:33Yeah, Gotham. So that was Yeah. But uh what two years ago or a year ago? It was only a year ago. It's not even a year ago. Wow. So yeah, we did just put out a full length album, Gothamism. We're just terrible about promoting these things, but it's all about kind of everything that we just talked about. That idea that yes, the world is depressing as hell, but with a little help from our friends, we can somehow bear it and get through it. And like the title track from that Gothamist, we had I mean Jason Corbett from Actors did a guitar solo. We had I think seven different vocalists

1:28:14that from the scene that added in and we really wanted to have that feel of all of our friends are what helped us put this together. Dan Milligan from Joy. Such a joy. Did all kinds of different stuff. Drum daddy. Drum Daddy. Yep. Much love, Drum Daddy. I love it. So, it can be found on all the all the streamings and Yeah. Band Camp, Spotify, all that jazz. Yep. We're on Spotify. I mean, I've never really opened it, but we're on it. Yeah, I'm told. I hear it's hard to find on Yeah. But, uh, yeah, YouTube Music, whatever. It doesn't matter. All the streaming things, but we prefer Band Cam. Yeah.

1:28:58Yes. for yes because they actually, you know, Yeah. pay the artist. I don't know. It's a novel concept. We We like the monies, please. It does help support the arts. It does. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Well, I saw that you're also besides um Fixation Festival, you're playing um in August as well. So, you have another show. Well, we got that show, my birthday week in August, and that's in Ipsellani, Michigan. And then before that, but after Fixation, we're playing God, two shows. Pardon me. Oh goodness. Such a cute little dainty sneak. Oops. Um, we're playing uh in Grand Rapids one night at church, which is like the goth

1:29:42night there that's run by our friend Ash. And then uh on the next dang it, the 24th of uh May, we are Can't believe that just happened. That's funny. Um, we are playing uh over at that same Lancing uh goth festival um again where they're going to have different like drag artists. I really really want to make because we are not we are not a touring band. So, I thought it would be hilarious to do a a tour shirt. So, Amaran's tour 2025. It's just the 23rd Grand Rapids, 24th Lancing. Boom. 26 My Couch. Bless you. And and just call it the I could have

1:30:33gone home at night tour. Yeah. But no. Yeah. So, we have those shows coming up and then the one in August. Uh so, yeah. Lots of exciting. Dang it. Oh my goodness. Blow up. I know. I'm having trles. This is the problem with a live interview. This is why I don't do them in case I have a sneezing fit. Oh no. Thank you so much for for for doing this with us and braving the sneezing fits. Um Charles Gupel is asking um if Colin sells his guitars and if so, how can someone view and buy one? Um would that be on your um your Instagram? would be

1:31:14that be the best way to get for them to get a hold of you if you if you do sell them or just to get a hold of me and have yell at Colin that someone wants to buy. Um so, uh there's some everything is for sale. Uh but I I like doing customs for people. I like doing something they want. I like having a conversation with them. Um, I it's difficult when people are farther away because I I want to make sure, you know, their handmade things and and expectations and all those things. So, like I said, it's a conversation. Um, getting a hold of Ken

1:31:56to get a hold of me. And then, like I said, I I do also like to frame people's expectations. I'm slow. It I make maybe 8 to 10 a year. But I mean, you're going to get a piece of art measured to your hand, designed exactly for you, sounding just what you want it to, you know? That's the benefit. But yeah, it's going to take a minute, you know? Yeah, I think that's amazing though. Um, you go on Instagram later. Like, you got to see them. Like, it'll blow your mind. They are so cool. All of them. Yeah. Um, Scott, if you wouldn't mind to drop all the links in

1:32:34the chat so that way people can can see where we can follow our friends. Um, yes, and support all things Colin and Ken because there there's many things to follow actually. There's Amaranth, there's Sounds and Shadows, there's your beautiful guitar work. Um, you know, multi-tiered things to follow and I love that that you are, like I said, multi-dimensional artists and creatives and also along with Sounds and Shadows on it. Yeah. There's the review page and the written stuff, but much like this one, uh, I do, and I love that you like actually have like hour-long interviews like this. We do uh on the Sounds and

1:33:10Shadows YouTube page, hour-long interviews with bands, uh producers, uh DJs, DJs, goth wrestlers, um you know, I I like to try and talk about all different parts of the scene, but and and also everything from young bands kind of just starting out with 500 followers up to legends of the scene that like tour with the Sisters of Mercy and stuff, you know, like everywhere along I take back Raymond Watts. Raymond Watts I we did an interview with Raymond Watts Gaga and I goo you did. Yeah. Hi. That was very much you're you're a pig. I I think with Raven though, it's so hard because he's just such a

1:34:00personable guy that like I might have started to stage fright, but he was just too like chill and cool. And so I just went with it. I'm like, this is just like talking to, you know, you sitting here in the studio right now. Like this guy's just too cool for words. So yeah, it's hard not to just feel at ease around Raymond. He has that effect. Yeah. But then you look at him and you reminded of like, oh, but you're still you're still you're still Raymond Watts. He is like that is and he is daddy like like when we saw him live and I'm like

1:34:31that guy's, you know, coming up on st and he's still owning those leather pants like it's still happening. Yeah. Yeah. I I know. I saw it when they came around for the last Sorry, I got myself a little over there. No. Oh my gosh. Oh, uh Jess is saying um uh that you have truly loved this session. Absolutely. Um yeah, thank you all so much for for hanging out in the chat with us. It's been so much fun. Um yeah, I'm excited to watch it later and I'll get to go back and read all the comments everybody have. I didn't have it up here on the screen while it was going. So,

1:35:11yeah. Well, um I think I can I can speak for all of us when I say we have been absolutely inspired. Um it's been a joy. Um thank you guys so much for for taking the time to chat with us and to share your perspective and your inspiration. I just feel like um like truly you you bring so much light to the community and we're all so grateful. Well, we appreciate you as well and we're really excited to get to play with you uh on uh in May over at uh Smalls. So that's going to be an absolute blast. Um I I'm really looking forward to it. That whole

1:35:47weekend's going to be uh cathartic and a lot of fun, but also processing a lot. That first time we did that uh Detroit. So Mike did a show of just Detroit bands kind of to honor Cat there before and just it was the first time I'd been back in Smalls and we walked in and I walked over to the bar and I just about lost it. that was a it's it's going to take a while to process through that, but having all those wonderful bands around and seeing those performances, I think it's going to go a long way towards helping me do that. So, yeah, I think that's, you

1:36:29know, from my experience of of loss, um, it's, you know, I feel like one of the things that helps us all is when we're all able to be there for each other and and to celebrate in a way that feels appropriate, which is through music, you know. Yeah. And that's what capital love, too. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's I think that's really like it's like the best you can do, right? Given given the circumstances, like you're like, "Okay, well, all right." Like, "How do I celebrate and respect this beautiful soul, you know?" Yeah. And we will and we will learn the lyrics so we can all

1:37:09sing along to Yeah. Yeah. Do that. Go check out the single. It's up there on Band Camp or on Spotify. And take a moment to to pause for a minute and just remember Cat Yeah. Well, my dear friends, thank you so much again. Um, sending you both a lot of love and so much excitement for seeing you soon. Pleasure was ours. This was a lot of fun and really truly, I said this before, as somebody who does interviews, for what it's worth, you you do an absolute great job. Uh, I really like the way that you ask questions and then let them breathe and and really give people a chance to

1:37:51get to know the artist. So, keep it up. You're doing a great job. Oh, that means a lot. I've I've watched your interviews and I think you're just amazing and so thoughtful. Um, so that really means a lot. I I appreciate it. Yeah. Awesome. Well, bye everyone. and have a wonderful rest of