Ryan Hutman, in full

0:45Heat. Heat. Hi friends. Um this is Tash and you're watching Unwritten Rules of the Road. Uh we have a very special guest with us today. Uh my dear friend Ryan Hutman. um of many many things, but for we'll we'll start off with Crane.

1:54Um hi. Hi, Ryan. How are you

1:57doing? Well, how are you today?

1:59I'm awesome. It's super happy to see

2:02Yeah, it's great to see you. It's great. It's always great to catch up with you.

2:06Absolutely. I feel like we always kind of like pick up where we left off, you know? We're like we go on our various adventures and then we come back together and it's well, what have you been up to? So,

2:17here we are. Yeah.

2:20So, you recently went to Germany with

2:25Yeah, this is this was our second time in Germany. Uh, and honestly, it was uh one of our lifelong goals, our dreams uh to to one just to play overseas, but then two, we got to play Wave Gothic Trefin, which was, you know, that like uh for for me there is no bigger festival. I guess Maril Luna, but even then it's not to me Mariluna is more goth and less industrial whereas Wave Gothic Cre is more industrial. So is it was like the the pinnacle for me. Uh and the first time we went was a was a really crazy story because uh we got we got asked to go and there is I want

3:08to say like 10 venues or even more and there was almost like over a hundred

3:14Wow. And I had already booked a ticket to Germany because my nephew was getting married to a German girl in Germany who just happened to be living in a city one hour away from Leipzig Leipzish where where uh Wave Gothic Treon was happening. And it happened to be the same exact weekend

3:38and I already had

3:40I already had it booked. I already had the ticket. Me and my wife were already going and then I was thinking like we should try to get a show and then and then I just looked I'm like oh dang Wave Gothic TF is happening that same same weekend and then we got the invite and then and then we got to meet so many people that we we've been able to trade remixes with that we never got to meet in real life. So we finally got to meet these people in real life which was so fun. Um, then we went uh up to uh we went up to Sweden uh and we played uh

4:13what's the main city in Sweden?

4:16Oh, Stockholm or Stockholm. I couldn't think of it.

4:20I understand. Yes,

4:22played Stockholm, which was so cool. And uh again, got to meet a bunch of people that that we've only like sent messages on Facebook and emails over the years and got to meet them in person. And uh oh, something else very coincidental is is uh we had never actually met our uh our owner of our record label in person. So, uh, we're on, uh, Dark Dimensions, uh, on, uh, Scanner and, um, and Frank from SITD, he is the owner of that label. And we had never met him in person. And we ended up playing the same exact venue on the same exact day as he was DJing

5:04uh, the night. So, of all the venues, of all the bands, of all the times, of all the days, we just happened to to meet up. And it was just so cool to It was so

5:16it was totally meant to be.

5:17Yeah. And then so then this last time we went to Germany again it was meeting a bunch of people that we've only you know texted with and then we got to meet them in person. Uh and this time we actually got to experience the whole festival because uh the first time I went I had the whole wedding. So, so we did the whole wedding thing and that's really all I did and I just I got to go do the one day really two days of the festival and this time I got to experience the whole entire festival. Got to see all the bands. Got to see my

5:48favorite band Kite which was absolutely amazing. And then also a bunch of bands that I' I've been fans of for so long. Strumm Cafe, uh Poopy Fabri, um Spetszn. There's like so many. Uh I finally got to see the Orange Sector. Yeah, I I can keep going on and on, but I got to actually see them all live uh there at that that venue or not at the venue, at that festival. It was so cool.

6:16That's amazing. That's really amazing. Especially it's like I don't know. You were talking about like, you know, this has been a lifelong dream to be able to do that and then just to for all these things to unfold to be able to see like bands you've been wanting to see and, you know, having those experiences, that's just amazing.

6:33Yeah, it was so cool. I'll tell you another crazy story too about uh Kite because I had been a fan of theirs. I forget how I got into that band. Do you know this band Kite?

6:42I know the band Kite. Yeah.

6:45So, they were touring and the promoter for Phoenix pulled out. So, they were touring the US. The the promoter for Phoenix pulled out and I got a phone call. I forget who called me, but someone called me like, "Hey, Ryan, I know I know you know Phoenix. Uh, we got this band coming through called Kite. Uh, if you want to host them." And I'm like, "I think I know that band." And like one of my favorite I have a I have a whole playlist just dedicated to their music. And like uh I got to uh host their show last minute uh in Phoenix at a little bar and uh unfortunately almost

7:27no one showed up which I felt really bad but they were happy to play and they gave it their all and I remember my face hurting at the end of the night because I was smiling so much

7:39and it literally it it could not have been like I cannot think of anything better than that right? Uh when it comes uh to to music or experiences, that was Yeah, that was absolutely uh tremendous.

7:52And getting to talk with him and Yeah, it was so cool.

7:55And I got to I got to show him Crane before Crane was ready. Like

8:01Oh, that's so cool.

8:03Um I forget his name now, the singer. He was like, "My throat hurts. I need to go get some ginger." So I I took him in my car to go get some ginger. And I was I'm like, "Uh, I gotta play him. I gotta play you my tracks." So, I'm playing him like unreleased crane tracks and he's like, "Yeah, you could probably do something with this."

8:22It was pretty cool.

8:24Oh, that's awesome. Oh my gosh. I just I love that. Like I don't know. It's funny like you never really know what you where you'll end up landing and it just seems like you've just had like kind of a series of very cool coincidences that have kind of, you know, landed in your favor. For sure.

8:41Yeah. It's divine intervention. I'm sure of it.

8:45Yes. Yes. I think it also might have to do with the fact though that you've been putting out some amazing solid work for, you know, your career. I mean, I feel like, you know, from your days in Hardwire to where you are in Crane, it's like, and I'm sure it's like you will continue to evolve, but there's been such an evolution, right, from from each thing that you've gotten to experience. Yeah. Yeah. The first music was 98, so we've been doing it a while. And uh yeah, we've just got to a point now where it's I think it's it's pretty easy for us to dial in the sound now. And

9:25whereas before I don't think it it really sounded um professional. It always sound kind of amateur-ish to me. And I struggled a lot. And now I think I think we're finally to a point now where it's like, "Okay, this sounds professional." Like, it's very easy now. I could Okay, well, we we we could now

9:46now that we got the hard part

9:48uh out of the way, now now we can do uh now we could experiment with the sound. Now we could now we can do other things and uh now that we know that's going to sound good. Well, what was it that like helped you shift um to to find that where you were like crossing that threshold between being, you know, like you were saying the amateur sound to the professional sound? Was there any like particular thing or was it a series of things?

10:14So, pretty specific thing actually. So, what it was is I had I had mixed one song and I I love the sound and I'm like I got to get all my other songs to sound like this. So, um, I used the the kick and the snare and the the mixer uh, from that one song and I copied it to every other song

10:34and now it's just that's just my template and I start with that template every time and it makes it sound great every time now. So, and that's another thing too. I was every time I would do a song, uh, we would, Chris and I would always, we would constantly go through 100 kicks, 100 snares, and we would be choosing which one's which. And, uh, now I have a kick and a snare, and that's it. And like we could change it, but it's like we we A and B it back to that kick and that snare

11:05to make sure it's the same uh you know tonality, whatever, the same loudness. It still kicks the same. Still, you know, the same EQ.

11:15But that that's really what made it made it easy for us is is that that template. Now I can throw anything in that template and I'll know like, oh, it's not too loud, it's not too quiet. Like as long as I can hear this kick and this snare, we're we're good. We're golden.

11:31No, that's very very cool. I I I was wondering actually like um like how did you manage to find that? Is it like are you self-taught in terms of your production or were there ways that you learned how how to create those sounds? I had a lot of help but

11:53a lot of experimentation you know 20 20ome years of experiment experimentation till I finally landed on that on what I think is like the golden

12:03and then uh you know uh Dave Strand he taught me a lot. He showed me all his mixing techniques which helped me uh you

12:16um by the way Scott Scott Scott Scott speaking of the strands uh Scott Lovey says that kite show was very special. what's up Scott?

12:29it was special.

12:30Yeah I think that's awesome. Um, yeah. No, I mean I just it's everybody has their flow, you know, when it comes to the creation and the sound and, you know, like and I that's really interesting that it's like through experimentation that you've found like what is really locked in for you, you know, for your sound.

12:51Yeah. So finding the samples like the kick and the snare sample took a long time of but it it it came back to where I would always like I would throw that in a a a new song just to see how it sounded and usually it was the best.

13:07So So now I'm like okay that's I think that's just the best. Like we're just going to do that every time and

13:14get up to that level and then switch them out like like just recently we swapped them out for we did a remix for a beggar uh 258 and we have a totally new snare and kick in there but we did A and B it to our original to make sure it was the same like levels and stuff. So,

13:33so, um, in terms of like because it feels like sound is something that's something that you're very very passionate about. Um, like how do you apply that to your live sound? Like how do you translate like the the studio sound in into the live forum? And is that hard to do? it. I think it's very hard to do, especially with our style of music because it the keyboard lines to me are are almost impossible to play. Like you would have to Chris and I cannot do it. Chris can can he can, but like for short bursts, like it's they're so fast,

14:12you know, and and uh they're usually 16th notes, so it's like you would have to be spamming the keyboard the whole time. Um, so a lot of honestly a lot of the sound like when we play live is uh a backing track which is most of those um most of those baselines a lot of the atmospheric sounds. Those are all mixed into the backing track. Um I will play some live leads uh but it's pretty rare honestly well because I'm usually running around singing so it's hard for me to do both to do the leads and and to play. I'm not that talented. And then uh Chris uh we he uh he's a

14:59master of drums, so he has uh we use an electronic kit. Um and his his drum sounds uh just build build on what we already have and make it bigger. And and I think that really like him doing that live is really what makes our show like a live show and not like a uh a karaoke karaoke show.

15:22I don't think it'd be a karaoke show even so. But yes, I love that element. That's awesome. For sure. I mean, you really know. I I the I first experienced you as hardwire and I just felt like just from the moment I saw you performing, you really knew how to engage the audience. Like it was like you really were just like, you know, I'm this is this is the music. This is the sound. This is this is who I am. And it was amazing, you know?

15:50So, yeah.

15:52Yeah, it helps. Um I forget who who helped me with that but I uh I uh perfected a technique of like uh of of showing showing the audience giving me power. They're they're they're building me up and I started doing this all the time like yeah get energy ah

16:09and I started doing this all the time like ah

16:12come on and that that really uh got me going once once once the audience is like yeah go and I was like yeah and it was this reciprocal thing I think with the audience. So it was

16:25I love it. You were totally doing that when I saw you and I was like, "Yes, I am feeling this."

16:33It's good fun.

16:35So from from your touring from Hardwire to where you are doing your your touring now with Crane, like how do you feel like things have have changed um and it's it's honestly the same. It's just less gear.

16:56Oh, speaking of the live sound, too, we we actually bought some vocal processors, Chris and I, cuz on the album, it's very affected the the we

17:06crazy amounts of like doubling and modulators and like a whole series, a whole rack of vocal processing. And we wanted to bring that to a live scenario, but man, like every show that we've played, like we we cannot get away from feedback.

17:25Oh, it's a beast. Yeah.

17:27So, the last show we're like, you know what? We're not going to bring them.

17:32Still had feedback. Still

17:36still had Still had feedback. I'm like, whatever. Like, we're just We just cannot win. There's no way. I think there's little feedback whales that just live in sound systems and they're sent to torture us. I guess this is my theory.

17:52So, so the latest uh gear that we bring is uh Chris has SPDS Pro. Uh he has some he actually just bought some uh re uh uh pads from the 80s. Uh they're rolling. I forget the name of them, but they're they're trying like they look like the Simmons almost, but they're rolling. And um and he has like a rack for those. And then I bring I bring a to play the leads with. that's it. Like that's that's it. We we actually we finally learned how to trigger our backing tracks through the SPDS. And I I didn't realize how powerful the SPDS is. It It is honestly bonkers how

18:42much you could do with the SPDS.

18:45Uh like like uh we put all of our backing tracks connected to a foot

18:53And and we can make the foot switch as long as we want. So like we actually a lot of our our our live shows, it actually starts with a really uh like this big buildup piece. We did it in hardwire too, but it was like this buildup piece where we're not on the stage. We start the song and then we come out on stage while while it's building up to like a big crescendo and then we start playing. And uh it used to be like I would tell my wife to go out there and press the button and come back. But but now we have now we have it

19:21on a foot switch. So we could actually move the foot switch behind the stage, hit it, and then you bring it out or whatever. Like there's a bunch of cool things we could do now. Although that last time we didn't last time we played, but it's kind of cool that we have it there to to to use that way.

19:38That's awesome. That is that's amazing that you can just control it with a foot

19:43Yeah. Makes it really easy. And also too, like the SPDS will never skip. It's hardware. I don't have to worry about updates. Like it's it's always going to work. And and when you

19:55you can also use it to trigger back

19:58everything at once. So you can actually trigger 16 different tracks at once if you wanted to. So if you wanted

20:05a separate mix for one person or the native click track or if you need uh something special for the house or something special for me like you you could make special backing tracks and trigger them all at once with the one one foot switch and it always works. That's amazing. Yeah, it was really cool. Yeah, I went to a deep YouTube rabbit hole of people using it live uh of figuring out how people do it and uh yeah, it really paid off. It was really cool to see. Shout out to Roland.

20:41Yeah, they they very cool. I was wondering um like you know like you mentioned a simplified setup that must make it so much easier for doing like all of the touring abroad, right? With all the flying that you do.

20:55Yep. Yeah. The first time we went there actually we we plugged everything in and our uh our um converter broke and the his SPDS started smoking.

21:12Right. right before the show.

21:15We're freaking out.

21:16Yeah. And and my nephew saw it's like, "Oh, this is smoking." He like ripped it out really quick

21:22and and uh Yeah, we ended up getting a different converter, but it's like Yeah, if if that's the one thing I worry about because the power is not the same. So, and we had it like melt almost on us. So, now now we're all super paranoid about all of our gear melting. So, like this last time we went, we we we bought

21:44the the best converters we could find, like spending extra extra money for for the converter that is is the best just just to make sure we're not going to have that problem again and have a

21:55Yes. Yes. Okay, that's some solid advice because I I feel like if you if you haven't, you know, toured abroad, it's maybe something that you wouldn't think about um or or be aware of. So, for sure like having that backup and also having a really good, you know, model of it.

22:14I think what it was is the the Roland actually had uh it had a converter like its power supply could convert or something weird like that like it it could do both

22:23both uh whatever 210 or whatever 220 or 110. So, it could do both. I think just built in which was nice. So, but you know a lot of my gear isn't like that. So, I have to have a um I have to have a

22:39Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. Well, I noticed on uh you know, some of your beautiful videos that you've done, you also have like incredible lighting. Um do you include like a visual show with it or does does the the venues that you play at end up providing that for you?

22:57We we don't like to do we like to bring a a lighting guy if we can. Yeah,

23:05but that that's not always the case. So, there was one um right during COVID, we decided to do a live stream concert where we had our lighting guy uh Rich Bouter come and do our lights. And uh I think that was the best uh we we ever looked was at that venue with him doing the lights. Uh and that's our that's our preferred way is have him Kim come do the lights. But, you know, when we travel abro abroad, we can't afford to fly him out there and have him do the lights. So, we're usually just at the mercy of the the venue. And what we saw,

23:42too, is we we we're not going to do like like a screen behind us or play video or something behind us because

23:50I feel like that distracts too much from I know a lot of people do it. Some people do it great, but I don't know. I feel like it distracts too much from the audience. Like when you have a bright screen behind you, uh yeah, that's too distracting from what's happening on stage and like it makes it makes your stage lights

24:10Like you need to have

24:12darkness to to see the lights and then in between the lights.

24:17So yeah, we usually we usually if if anything we would have them put our logo up really dim,

24:22but even or nothing. Just do nothing. Just do lights and that that's usually the best I think.

24:28Yeah. Oh, it makes sense. I mean, it's and and the thing is is really like you have a very high energy show, so it really is about just, you know, getting out there and having that energy. Um, you know, which it's always enhanced by lights, but I think ultimately the show is a show with or without them. So yeah,

24:47there's there's times like especially in hardwire where and like Rich did a bunch of our uh lighting shows with Hardwire and where the lights would start strobing like during like a like a blast beat on the drums and that that is one level up. Like I already thought I I was going crazy on stage and then that happens like oh my god like Yeah. I even want to go crazier like Yeah. So I think it really helps me too really get into it and that and I think that also is reciprocated with the audience where like oh my god look at it. Well, in Crane, um, you also have like a

25:31very specific aesthetic. Um, you know, and we had chatted about that for a moment and, um, you know, I was curious like is that something that you had envisioned from the very beginning or is that something that you just ended up

25:48It's we were actually inspired by we saw some art on the internet of of someone who who honestly had that look. They had uh black cloth on them and they were wearing a black crown. I'm like I told Chris, I'm like, "Dude, we we need to do this. Like, this is super cool." And we we do it a little bit different. Like, honestly, we kind of someone pointed this out the other day. We kind of look like the uh the ring wraiths from Lord of the Rings. And I'm like, "That's perfect. Yeah, that's great.

26:18we can do that." But yeah, we we do a little bit different with the flowing uh stuff and and uh kind of like a almost like a medieval like robe type outfit. And uh yeah, we also a lot of our songs honestly is quite a few of our songs talk about swords. So in the last album the some of the art we incorporated the swords. Uh but yeah, we figured I couldn't really bring a sword around in uh Germany because they would they would probably freak out. Yeah, maybe. So,

26:51yeah, they get the cops on us. They'd have to catch me. I don't think they

26:56This I mean, yes.

26:58Just kidding. I'm I'm I'm old now. There's no way. Like, they would easily catch me. I would run out of breath. There's no way.

27:05I don't know. I've seen you run around stage, so

27:09Well, it's Well, it's it's been a big change lately. like like the last show I I honestly was really feeling it and uh yeah, this means I need to go to the gym or or start walking some more or something cuz I was I was really out of breath for a lot of that more than I had been in the past. And we even we even did like Chris and I we both did we uh we knew that we were kind of out of shape. So, we actually had to go uh I started doing uh really long walks or I was walking like three miles a day to try to get my stamina up.

27:47Still wasn't enough. Of course, it didn't help. It didn't help to like the venue the venue had no AC.

27:53and it was super humid and and it was shouldertoshoulder in there.

27:59Like you you could not move through the crowd at all. Like it was

28:03packed. So yeah, all those people, humidity, no AC, like we were dying. And poor Chris, he had he had the uh the the he he usually wears two um veils.

28:17And uh he said it got stuck to his face like his like his sweat was like water boarding him with the the thing on. So he he had he had to take it off. He's like, "Dude, I'm going to pass out if I

28:29if I keep that thing on." So yeah, it was hard. It was hard for me too because I a lot of times too like can't we can't really see through it just like in hardwire hard I don't know why I always have to have to like disable myself when I when I go on these any band I'm in like a hardwire we wore welding goggles on stage. All right. What do you think that does? Like there's like it's impossible to see through those things. And and then again I'm doing the same thing in in Crane where I'm wearing wearing uh this death shroud over my face where I can't I can't see

29:02That's impossible.

29:04It's always been theatrical when I really think about it. I'm like, "Yeah, there's always been like something like that is like, yeah, let's let's see if we can jump through these hoops."

29:15because I was wondering about the visibility like how you're able to like navigate with the with the veil and everything. So,

29:22yeah, it's not easy. I felt really bad, too. The last concert where I was uh one of the other bands, he had a bunch of lights set up. I I kicked the lights every time. Every time I would go over real I I'm like and after the show I just had to apologize. I'm sorry, dude.

29:36I tried I really did. I tried my hardest not to kick your lights.

29:42I just did. I kicked them a butt. Sorry,

29:47What can I do?

29:48It it it happens. It does happen. And everyone, for the most part, I find is rather cool about that because we we do understand the the the live music wind

29:58Yeah. Yeah. He didn't care. He's like, "No, it's fine, dude." So, I I felt less bad about it when he you said it was

30:06So, are y'all um do you have any um shows on deck that are coming up or are you just kind of focusing on in the uh being in the studio for right now?

30:16Yeah, no shows lined up yet. Um but that's that can change any moment. Uh we are currently working on we we got asked to be part of a uh a dep mode uh tribute

30:33very cool.

30:34Yeah, expect that soon. We're we're doing uh a cover of uh Something to Do which honestly is that original song is so industrial if you listen to that beginning like it is it is pretty awesome like how like really uh really it sounds like a really like like really crazy sampled bass like pushed to the limit and yeah a slap bass and yeah we're going to try to to to do it justice although I there's no way I'm singing it in key like I have to do it I have to just do like the uh the the normal scream where I can't Yeah, I don't think I could do it in

31:14It's It's always so cool to hear like covers done in in the style of like the person covering it. So, it's going to be very very cool. I can't wait to hear

31:25Yeah, should be fun.

31:26Yeah. Yeah. So, are you um like just going to be probably working on on music at this point for for for Crane or is there anything on deck for you outside of Crane as well?

31:41Uh no, just new music. We

31:45a few tracks that didn't make the cut last last go around and um it's it's it'll be a bit hard I think to to make the next album because

31:58with with the last album with three um we again we realized some some dreams that uh we we always wanted to make a a few things We wanted to get all the marketing done first. Wait, we wanted to have a music video, which shouldn't happen. And we wanted to um have uh a vinyl made. That was always a dream. Even, you know, 98 1998, that was that was my dream. It was so cool if I had a vinyl. And then we we have a vinyl now. And it's it's we Yeah. We so now now we have to make bigger dreams. So we we we reached the big dreams. So

32:46yeah, making a new album trying to top what we did last. And then uh the other thing that we want to do is we want to play this this uh old school EBM only festival called Familiar Trefin in Sanders Lebanon, Germany. And that that's the next goal, the next dream is to play that that festival because it's only old school EBM. And uh yeah, it that that's the next pinnacle of of uh for festivals for us.

33:16I know y'all will do it. I have no doubt. I just it's so cool just to say that like you know this is a dream of ours and then it's happened and what's on deck and actually have an idea of what you what you actually you know wishing for and I think that's I'm like yeah I could see that totally.

33:37Are there any other things that you're dreaming of that that you can share or um you know besides the festival? Uh honestly I I do want to do more video and I think uh but we'll see too. I also have aspirations to uh write and direct a you know since I'm doing video full-time now I've have I have a lot of I'm I'm leaning a lot towards that whereas uh in the past I couldn't wait to come home and and write music and now it's split between wanting to write music and wanting to you know uh create some some video. So

34:24yeah. Yeah. No, I mean you're you're very gifted in both realms. So um yeah, sometimes it's sort of like picking and choosing when you're like, "Okay, I feel the pull for this thing and I feel feel the pull for this thing and kind of where where you end up choosing, you

34:41Um like I think that um especially like if you have a very clear idea, things tend to kind of just unfold very quickly, you know. Yeah, for sure. I agree.

34:57Yeah. I think that's something um well, especially as as a filmmaker, I'm sure like you probably already have kind of general concepts and story and stuff like that where you're like, these are the things that I want to explore. And I feel like that probably is a big part of the battle when you when starting from the ground up, right?

35:18Yeah. Uh yeah, it's it's been nice to honestly uh use

35:23AI to con make some of the concept art and to uh very quickly like get some of the ideas written out. Uh so I've been I've been really delving deep into AI

35:35And it it's been mindboggling honestly like what what has been coming what what what is coming and like how quickly it's coming and uh

35:46Yeah. Hope hopefully uh we'll get some more tools in the belt and hopefully it just doesn't like uh hopefully it won't make my music better than me soon. Although I'm worried that uh I am worried that it's going to make it's going to make Crane music better than I can make it pretty soon. I think it's going to get that good that quick. So, we'll see.

36:11We'll see. We'll see. I mean, I feel like you're you're a person of evolution, so I imagine that you're always going to probably be ahead of that curve, you know.

36:20Yeah. I I hope I hope I stay ahead of it and not get trampled by it. Well, Yeah. It's it's it's a fascinating realm, that's for sure. I think that um I don't know though. It's like I feel like if you have like a a deep rooted like flow of creativity where you kind of like have your own flow of writing songs or you know whatever the case is it's like I don't think anything can really replace that you know

36:50so I think I think too you need um I think artists need uh turmoil in their lives to I think that's the reason they produce the art is they have some kind turmoil, some kind of emotion or some kind of feeling that they're they they need to And uh yeah, lately life life has been really nice for me. So So there hasn't been much turmoil. So I haven't had much uh you know uh been struggling for lyrics honestly lately before where I'd have like a clear vision of what I want to want to say.

37:31Uh lately it feels a bit forced. So maybe that's why I've been uh leaning towards video more than I have been leaning towards towards music.

37:40That makes sense. I mean I I I though I will I have not shared very much of it. Like sometimes if I if I feel like okay I've gone as far as I can with writing lyrics for this one thing, I'll just start sketching just kind of a way to change things up and

37:58you know I don't know. It's like it's like you have to set it down, I think, for a little bit and explore another medium to maybe find what you're looking for in the song or whatever. Yeah. I heard someone tell me once, it's something that we practiced a little bit during the when we wrote three is just set a set time uh for working on it. And even if you are in a groove when that time's over, just stop because you you will then want to get back to finish that and you'll be thinking about what you could have done and then you'll make something even

38:38better. Now you've given it more time. You've been able to think about it longer. And that's something that's something we did a little bit during during three uh to kind of you know extend uh that that flow period of of that super creative period. Just stop it in the middle and then really think about what what we did for you know a week and then come back and then then put it all down.

39:04How long of a flow period would you set We we would whenever I get to Chris's Chris has the studio at his house. So whenever I get to Chris's house, usually have to work until 8 or 9 would would be the time. So we we'd probably spend, you know, three four three to four hours and then

39:32that's a good chunk of time. Yeah.

39:35And then and then we're done. it. That could actually be very hard though, too. I was thinking of like if you're in a really good flow to be like, gonna put a pin in it for now."

39:48It has been nice. We And every time when we finish, we we always uh do an export and then we would listen to it in the

39:56I think and any musician musicians out there, you have to listen to it into in the car

40:03every time.

40:04You have to. And you have to find like that terrible speaker, right? Like your little box that's like the terrible speaker to get a real idea of

40:18Yeah. For sure. It's the only way to So foundationally when you start a song um do you feel like it it you come from different places like um whether it's like a a baseline or a groove or um like a little melody or is you know is it is it something that you kind of veer towards in terms of like when you come come up with different songs? A lot of times it's a baseline, especially with our kind of music. It's it's all baseline. And usually it's just think of of a fun way to do it. I even shared this before. I don't know if you saw it. I put out a

40:57about how uh a lot of times if I get inspired at home, I will actually just uh start recording on my phone and I will start slapping my belly as the drum beat and start doing doot dudes for the And and then then I I take that recording and I translate that to uh actual notes and an actual baseline. And uh yeah, a good example like in that video I showed how uh I just had this idea in my head like wouldn't it be cool if the baseline went like this and then I then I I faked it with my mouth and then um that ended up being uh the remix

41:34we did for Storm Cafe and it translated pretty well. So that one that one was a good example of I was able to kind of like pull out of my head like what I was trying to to do and actually make the keyboard make those because it is the sound too had like a a lazy note before start over. So like the end of the the before uh it's usually a loop. So before the end starts over, it had like a I don't know, I'm not very good at musical terms, but right before it starts again, it had a long note that actually took up the first like quarter

42:12of the the end of of the last loop and then the quarter of of the first loop to have this big kind of noise before it started again. So yeah, they'll be able to realize that to make that weird those those whippy portimento type uh keyboard sounds. Yeah, it worked out.

42:32I love that. Especially like I don't know. It's always so gratifying when you hear something in your head and then you hear it out loud.

42:40This is exactly the thing.

42:42Or you make it sound better. That's a lot of

42:45Chris and I would do that all the time. And that that's what was so fun about a lot of the Crane M music, especially on on two was uh we would just we would write the baseline. Usually Chris Chris Chris Chris will will usually play them maybe a little slower or whatever, but then we speed it up

43:03and then we would we would play it back through the Nord lead too and we would just go nuts with the knobs and like like both of us like it had like three or four knobs that we were in charge of. So, it was it was literally like almost eight hands on the on the keyboard at once while we have it playing back and we're we're we're tweaking little things. And every little tweak did something so cool and where where we would do just really random stuff too like like uh in the middle of it, Chris would just hit hit the trans transport up like two two octaves like

43:36boom boom and then go back real quick back. So, we get like these ultra high pitch noises and we're like, "Wow, that was wild. Should we keep that? Like we do we should we keep that in there?

43:54That's awesome.

43:56Yeah, that that happened a lot. We're like, "Wow, that was that was too much. Was it?

44:02But was it?

44:04Was it? Shall we keep it?" Yeah, let's keep it.

44:09So that was pretty fun.

44:10Sounds so fun. I mean, I feel like it's like when you find the right people to create with and you're able to have fun like that, it makes such a difference.

44:21Oh, yeah. Especially with Chris cuz he's we think a lot alike for especially for these baselines. We're just like, "Oh my god, that's perfect." And um yeah, and then and then doing all like this really crazy whippy stuff with the portimento. Both of us are like, "Oh yeah, we're And then and then to really push the limits of like the Nord lead and just like get really too far, what most people would consider too far and just be like, "Yep, that's it.

44:52That's the that's the take."

44:56So, and usually usually when Chris and I are doing that, we are laughing like we're we we're done with that and like, "Oh my god, that was that was way too crazy." We're laughing and then we're like, "Yep, that's the that's it. That's I love that so much. It sounds so magical. Like um I do you actually know um have an idea of like what the knobs do or sometimes is it just sort of trial and error where you're let's just see where it goes.

45:25No, we're we're we're uh pros when it comes to the Nordly 2.

45:31And and we got pretty good with uh Serum. Uh most of the the sounds on three are are Serum actually and very few are the Nord lead 2. Uh but yeah, the Serum is is very inspirational, too. And uh I'm looking forward to getting Serum, too. Maybe there'll be another another batch of of inspiration from that the new stuff that's in Serum 2. But that that one that one uh when I got that and I um that really inspired a lot of the sound in Crane 3.

46:09Very cool. That's awesome. like for for for somebody that is wanting to start out um like as a keyboardist or synthesist um like would you say like maybe foundationally that one of the steps is just first of all find your instrument?

46:28I don't know. I was just talking with someone about this. I forget who it was.

46:33I feel like it's a um whatever that instrument is, it doesn't matter. that's going to be the best instrument. What when you first start out and and you there's something that you really want to try, you'll find a sound in that that that will just be your sound for for a time, I think

46:57cuz cuz like you know I we still have that Nord lead 2. We had that all through hard wire. Uh, and to me that honestly that that the sound from that keyboard kind of defines uh, Crane. It was the Nord lead 2 and the Axis Virus Uh, those T keyboards were all over two and and a lot of three. And yeah, I I think that's how it works. Like you you'll hear something or you hear someone play something, then you'll go buy that keyboard. That will be your sound. You'll you will then push push that keyboard to its limits. And then you you won't look for another

47:38keyboard until you're done pushing that one to its limits. I think that it's like um well, like you said that you have like kind of your eye on the serum, too. Um so I'm very excited to hear what the next, you know, evolution is going to be for Crane from

47:59Yeah. Well, we'll see too because like when I

48:03I listen to demos. I like I I've seen I I've I've researched all like the new None of it really sounds like things I'm going to want to use. None of it. When when Serum 2 when the original Serum came out, I was like, "Oh my god, I I got to get this. I

48:20can't wait to to make sounds with this thing." Uh and then Serum 2, like all their features, like they sound cool, but I don't I don't know how I'm going to use them. I I can't visualize it in my head or or sonically like how how I'm going to use the new features, but maybe I'll just be inspired by new uh what's it called? It's new presets and stuff. I do that a lot. I'll I'll buy a bunch of like sample packs and try them all out. See if there's a sound I like.

48:48Do you ever do any sampling of things yourself or do you usually use like other samples that have already been We do a lot of our own. Um,

49:01you'll hear. Yeah, a lot of the eerie sounds that we have, honestly, are from sample packs. Uh, I find it's really hard to create eerie sounds at the caliber I'm able to just get from other people.

49:17I haven't been able to figure out eerie sound, whatever atmospheric sounds. Well, uh, so that those are easier for me to go outsource. Uh but yeah, I we do do a lot of samplings. Uh good example is the last remix we did, the one that we did for Bagger uh 258, they um we sampled we actually sampled like some really old uh stuff. Uh we sampled uh the movie um what is the movie? It's a post-apocalyptic movie. um where I can't remember it now, but we sampled a a really cool phrase from from that movie. Uh it's going to kill me. Well, whatever.

50:02You know, you're going to remember right after we finish talking.

50:07Is it like a modern movie?

50:12No, it it's a Yeah, it's a famous movie, too. Or they they all take drugs called S. Does that sound familiar? Oh gosh, it does. And I can't think of it either.

50:26That's that's the part we sampled at the end. Yeah, there's this uh the lead character. He was he was known as the

50:34but he was from the the the the outlands away from society. And he learned to read on his own. And he learned Shakespeare and because that was one of the the books that he read. So he he spoke in this kind of Shakespearean tone compared to all the rest of the people that had no knowledge and they were all like they're all deemed just like worthless people. They brought him into the society. Anyways, everybody in society takes these drugs and it's him yelling at all the people like don't you want to live? Don't you want to feel the blood in your veins? And I just thought that

51:06was such a cool thing to say like like have him like tell like almost in like this Shakespearean like language too. I thought was really cool. So we did that.

51:18Oh, was it Brave New World?

51:20Yep. Brave New World. Yeah. So So they made a version of that I I want to say in the early 80s uh that had had him go off on on the people and it was so cool. We also sampled um a really crazy drum sound from Chris Chris was telling me how like he he's like there's this sound in Alphaville that I've always wanted to replicate and he played me the song and then we actually used uh AI to kind of isolate that that drum because that drum was a bunch of other stuff was layered over top of it. So you couldn't really get a clean sample of it. But we use AI

52:03to uh cut that out. So then we sampled that and and we we did something else too. We did another drum hit that was uh I think from a 242 song

52:18that was just like a just a crazy drum hit like

52:21you know that we also kind of like pulled out and then inserted into our song to kind of like fill fill in like for extra drums and like uh percussion.

52:32so we do a lot. I think I think every single one of our songs has sampling. it's usually something that we we are doing. It's not like we're buying a sample or something. were uh I've I've been on a kick lately to find uh video game noises of like people getting hurt in the video game and they'll make like they'll make like a grunting or like a a pain noise and then I I put that into a sampler and I'll I'll shift it. So, I've been doing that a lot like these these uh vocalizations of like these grunts and in in in the songs and

53:13I I love I've been doing that all the time. So, yeah, expect that on the next album, guys.

53:19A lot of grunts from video games.

53:24That's awesome.

53:27I think it's amazing that you have such an ear for sounds. um to the point where I imagine I mean does it ever get overwhelming though when you're out and about you know in a day and you're like oh I hear this sound and I hear this sound or you know sounds that might bother you I'm not sure. No, there's there has been a few times where I I literally have to get my cell phone out and record a sound

53:51where like there

53:52it's usually a machine sound. Honestly, it's usually like some like a crazy like belt fan or who knows. I'm like, "Oh, what a wild sound." And I have to get my phone out and record it. Usually those don't make it into the what's it called though? those when I record my cell phone that doesn't make it into the song, but it inspires me for like, okay, let's try to recreate that what I heard there and try to make something like this. So,

54:18it still it still helps. But yeah, it's very rarely I'm going to record something with a cell phone and then put that directly into the song.

54:27They never quite turn out just for whatever reason, you know, the little cell phone. Yeah. Yeah. But that's I mean I think that's really cool because like um you know I feel like on a very foundational level like you know your your sound is so it's recognizable. It's such a a beautiful like um polished in a good way sound like it's it has just a next level like uh feeling to it. I mean I've noticed that with your remixes. I've noticed that with your own music. Um, and so like I just imagine that it's just, you know, like you were saying, you you've been doing this for a while. Um, and if

55:09it's something that you focus on, like I feel like, you know, hopefully you continue to get better and better at whatever the thing that you're focused on is, you know?

55:18Yeah, I think so. It's uh I still struggle with getting, you know, Chris and I both do vocals for our songs, and it's really hard, honestly, to get us both to to sound even in the mix uh because we have our tone is is so different. You know, he's he's got almost like a liebach, you know, super low, grally uh tone that he usually has. And me, I have a really, you know, kind of high-pitched uh painful grunt, type of of yelling. And uh it's hard to match those in the song, but uh I just got some new software that I think is going to help even that out. And

56:00honestly, when I part of what took me so long to finish that that remix of Waves was uh I couldn't I couldn't get there was one part of your vocals that uh kept like like overdriv the compressor I had and like I couldn't I just for the life of me I couldn't figure it out and it kept bothering me and I sat on it for so wrong. It got to the point where like I'm just going to buy some software and hopefully it fixes it and then I did and then it fixed it and I'm like, "Oh, great. Oh, finally I can give this back

56:38to them." Like, uh, it sounds great now. So, yeah, but but during that process, I actually lost a bunch of uh the song. Uh, my my plugins weren't working right. I I don't know what it was, but but I had a bunch of presets for for a bunch of the uh uh all of the synthesizers that I I'm not kidding. I think there's like 12 in that song. 12 different sounds played and it messed up like a bunch of them. They would not load. So, I had to recreate it using using an old export of of of of thinking like like how how I originally made that and I had

57:20to remake the sounds. And I got I got pretty close, but because I made them originally, but I got pretty close. They still didn't sound quite as good as I originally had it, but but I got close

57:33I mean, it I thought it turned out beautifully. Um Yeah. Yeah, it was really really beautiful. Um, I really loved the groove. Um, and that's something that's always been signature about all your music is just there's this really driving, you know, super recognizable groove that feels like this pulse, you know, and I really love that about your music.

57:59Thanks. Yeah, that's something that I'm I'm proud of. Something Chris is proud of is always having a driving a driving force and whatever it is, it's going to have a a push and a drive towards a towards a crescendo every time.

58:13Yeah, absolutely. Is there like, you know, some tempo ranges that you veer toward or do you kind of like to like kind of keep it open whether it's like a slow deep groove or a super like high tempo groove? You know, I I was curious about it's easiest for us to make a groove at 120 and below to have that mid-tempo or slow tempo groove. We're I think we're pretty good at that. But uh I think a lot of it depends on the song. A lot of times like we especially when we're making an album like we we have to make a fast song or two. has like most

58:57and and most of the songs will probably stick around 140

59:02130 and then and then we'll get down to that mid-tempo 120 to 100 and even slower like um I want say dark triad was something like that.

59:14Yeah. So, they even get slower. But, uh, yeah, that's that's something that, uh, we we purposfully will always have a mix on the album. And when we're when we're writing, we we think about that. Although, I think it it, as I previously said, it's easiest for us to make a groove at probably 100 and make it really sick.

59:42Filthy filthy like baseline. Oh my gosh. But yeah, I mean, I do feel like it's interesting because um you know, I've seen this with electronic music where it's like if you if you find just the right groove or the right pulse, it just it seems to just like it it just gets you moving like even yourself on this, you know, when you're performing it just but it feels very satisfying, you know? Yeah, I've noticed a lot of um like the the genre of like this cyberpunk style music now. It's kind of in that whole mid-tempo range and it's most of the times it's literally just a kick and a

1:00:29baseline and it's just a really that's all it is. It's it's it's almost directly EBM music. It's just kind of more modernized, but uh it's uh yeah, it's just nothing. There's just nothing to it. It's just that done really well. Just kicking a baseline in a groove done really well. And uh it's really fun to to see, you know, where I felt like like uh the genre of EBM is like kind of lost and forgotten gotten it finding it feels like there's like a resurgence of like things that are just like it's so close to it to me like all all this like modern cyber punk style uh

1:01:08and EDM like um like Rez and uh I'm trying to think who else is like that. But there's a bunch of these these bands that are making this kind of like dark uh dance floor music and it's like it is so close to EBM. Like okay, this this is good. Like kids kids are liking this again. So we're we're we're good.

1:01:32Yeah, for sure. I don't know. It's interesting to see like how things will cycle and then but then like the modern takes on it, you know. Um, but then I feel like when they do cycle too, it's just like, um, like the artists that have been doing like the original, you know, style, um, it's like there's even more I I feel like love, you know, where they're like, "Oh my gosh, I'm discovering this band for the first time." Um, and I love it so much, you know?

1:02:06So, yeah.

1:02:08Yeah. Hopefully, we'll be one of those people in the future.

1:02:14I mean, that's how that's how I was when I first heard Nitsereb.

1:02:18Actually, when I first heard Nitserev, I told this story before, but I don't know if you heard I when I first hit heard Nitsereb. I was actually I was I think I was at the club with Scott. If he's still in the chat, at the club with Scott and with Dave and we uh joining the chat came on and I'm like, what what is going on with this song? because like they just he just repeats the same lines over and over again and it's the same same loop the whole time. Like it didn't make any sense to me and I I didn't like it at all. And now it now that song is

1:02:48one of my favorite songs of all time. And like I appreciate it so much more now or back then I didn't I didn't get it. I didn't get it like like uh what he was trying to do back then. I don't know if I still do. I still maybe I still don't know what he was trying to do back then, but I love it. I absolutely love it now. I love the repetition now. And I love I love that it's it he doesn't need any other baselines. He just needs the one. That's the best one. What?

1:03:19Makes all the sense. I mean, why? Yeah.

1:03:23Yeah. Why have variety? He already No, he picked the best baseline already. It's done.

1:03:32Yeah. I feel Yeah. I mean, there's some songs where they're just so tasty and you're like, well, I could listen to that and loop over and over and over. So, yeah.

1:03:46So, is Nitserb one of your foundational

1:03:52It's it's it is now. I originally though it was what really got us into it was was like uh bands like specnaz doing this paying homage honestly to these bands like Nitsereb uh doing this kind of old school style.

1:04:08Uh so yeah originally it was it was like um orange sector this modern bands doing this old style I think is is really what got us into it. And then, you know, then later on, like I I wasn't into Front 242 when I first started. I didn't I didn't quite get it. I mean, I Everybody has heard Head Hunter and Dance on the on the dance floor to Head Hunter, but that was the limit of my knowledge of of Front 242 and uh yeah, now I love them. And it it was it was nice. We actually got to open for them when they came through Phoenix.

1:04:47So, it was cool. Yeah. The legends. Oh my gosh, that's amazing. Like I don't know when you when you first meet one of your heroes or or people that you've really been influenced by, like do you are is are you able to just like go up to them and talk to them or is there like a

1:05:08I I got I'll tell you a story too. So we, Mike and I, Mike Marsh and I started Hardwire because we were huge fans of KMFDM. The biggest fans of KMFM. I'm pretty sure that comes through in the music, too, because we we love them.

1:05:28And we we did end up collaborating with Nesh on a song, which was a dream come true. Another dream. we got to open for uh Slick Idiot when when they came through town and I went up to Anesh. I'm like, "Hey, dude. I want to let you know that you you one of my idols. You're one of the reasons why I started this whole thing." And what I didn't know is he was really pissed at the sound guy at the time. And he took it all out on me.

1:06:04Oh no. Oh

1:06:05yeah. He turned to me. He's like, "I'm your idol, huh?" I'm like, "Uh, I didn't know what to do."

1:06:12Oh, no.

1:06:13Like I'm like, "Yeah. Uh, yeah. It's really great. It's so good to see you. I'm in the band that we're opening. Uh, I I'm just I was trying to make conversation, but like he didn't want to talk to me. like he was so mad and like I but I think he forgot about that because you know he was gracious enough to like we we traded remixes over over the years and then we had uh he he actually came to Chris's house at our studio and he actually sang um I can't remember the name of our own song now. He sang on one of our songs and it was

1:06:47amazing. So yeah, I'm sure you Well, talk about a full circle moment,

1:06:57Yeah. Yeah, that was probably one of the coolest. And then getting getting to meet uh Jurgen Angler, which was again a dream come true because long long before even before I was into um really industrial music or or I was just getting into it honestly. And back then like we didn't really have the internet and I I didn't really know anybody when I first got into that kind of music. And I I would just go to our local record shop and I would just ask the guys like, "Hey, what else is like uh KMFDM?"

1:07:34And there were some dudes that knew and because even even like if I go ask someone like, "Hey, what's like KMFDM now?" Like most people that the record shop are going to have no idea, but that guy knew. He's like, "Yeah, you could probably check this out." and he gave me uh Drops had done a a cover album of a bunch of Metallica songs and I was already a huge Metallica fan. So I was listening to that and I I fell in love with that and uh yeah that was very very early days of Hardwire and uh Mike and I both were in love with that album and we

1:08:07would listen to it constantly. So, we became big Decrupts fans and then I think we just reached out to him on Facebook and we're like, "Hey, dude. Uh, we really want to do would you be interested in doing a remix for us?" And, uh, he did. And then, yeah, I think he's done he's done three or four for us now. I think he did one or two in hardwire and then he's done two uh for Crane.

1:08:36Wow. So

1:08:37that's amazing.

1:08:38It it was

1:08:39Yeah, I think he gave us the the biggest compliment too when uh he really wanted to sing Disco King for Crane and we're like I remember asking him like what do you think about if you sang it in German? And he was like uh I don't think that's going to work cuz like the like the language just doesn't work out. like I can't make it rhyme and stuff. I'm like, don't don't worry about it. Like, if you think about it at all, you don't have to, but if you want to do it in German, I think that would be really cool. I don't care what you say. You can change

1:09:15all the lyrics. Just do whatever. But he did. He turned it all into German and then gave it back to us and we we uh we redid the song with the with his German

1:09:24Oh, that's awesome.

1:09:26Yeah, it was

1:09:27I love that German translates so well in this style of music. I think there's just something so beautifully rhythmic and

1:09:37powerful I think about it. Yeah.

1:09:39I feel like it was born in Germany. This whole style,

1:09:43even though I don't think it actually was, but I I feel like it should have

1:09:52Yeah. Well, I mean, I just it's I think it's so cool like going back to like, you know, how you were talking about like it was a lifelong dream to be able to go to German these festivals. Um, like feeling the call for it. I I've never experienced it myself, but from everything I've heard, it's just really amazing. Like the, you know, the the whole like dark music community, you know, and varying forms of dark music, too, whether it's electronic or, you know, goth or metal, just whatever the case. I feel like there's just such an incredible scene over there.

1:10:30Yeah. Yeah. Lipish is something else. uh WGT or how they say it uh VGT is is something else like especially when you see the the first day when they all line up to get their tickets they get a wristband and the ticket itself honestly is gorgeous. Never in my life have I seen so much attention given to just a ticket. It it's honestly it's like an art piece the the ticket itself and it's it is so cool and yet you get this band and uh there is a line of I don't know I want to say a thousand people maybe not that many exaggerating but it takes you it takes you probably a

1:11:18good hour or two to get through the line to see that many people all dressed in black and and during the days of the festival, they all take over all the areas where uh all of the the the trolleys are full of them. All the buses are full of of people in black and there's big big groups and the the whole park is just nothing but black. It is just so cool to see and the amazing outfits are so cool to see and so many vendors of of people who sell that kind of merchandise, too. So, it's like and stuff like I can never get like there we went there and they

1:11:57had this whole shopping area built out at at the park of um they had like an indoor section where they had I don't know probably a hundred vendors and it was just like the most gorgeous art like homemade art and then they there was a guy that had that only sold EBM stuff like you would never find that in America like that. There's no way that you would find an EBM only uh seller of anything. And it was just so cool to see and

1:12:24and uh you know meet meet those people, talk to them, talk to them about their art and and see all the all that cool stuff there.

1:12:35That's so cool. Like I just I love that it's like and to see it on mass but like a shared love, you know, it's like and and to see that many people. I feel like that's where you're when you go to these places, you're like, "Oh, wow." Like it's one of the things I love about festivals. It's like, you know, you find other kindred spirits where you're like, "Oh, we all love very, you know, similar but different things." And it's very cool to to convene.

1:13:01Yeah. It is so nice. So, um, in terms of your film making, if I may ask, are there particular genres that you're like more into, um, that you you kind of have your eye on?

1:13:21Uh, we'll see if I make if I make something, it it'll be, uh, like a uh, it'll be uh, in that genre for sure. So yeah, I I don't know. Even when I said that earlier, I'm like that's that's a big dream. I don't know if that will ever happen. Of course, I said that too about vinyl and and playing WGT. So I don't know. Well,

1:13:47and here we are.

1:13:49Yeah. And and I did those things, so I don't know. Maybe it will happen one day, but that's, you know, that's a big dream. And that's I I have a long ways to go before that would be something something I actually would put together or or be able to to to finalize and and show people.

1:14:05Well, what I do like about music videos is I feel like it kind of gives you the opportunity to like dip your foot in where you're like, "Okay, these are the things that I really love seeing um in movies." And so you can probably incorporate some of those elements into your music videos.

1:14:22Yeah. Yeah. uh makes it really easy too because the music video is really short. Although like when I edit them though like there's there's so many more cuts than there would be in a normal movie where you're you really have like especially with our music too. I have to keep up the the energy and the pace. So I need and then I need there's a crescendo again. So I need to save some of the best footage for the end. I don't want to use all the best stuff at the beginning because then the the end won't be as you know it'll just kind of peter out. You don't want

1:14:51to you want to keep keep the energy up and keep keep the audience engaged. doing a music video I think is is very Although it doesn't have to be. I just make it hard. I just make it Yeah. Like it it can be very simple because I've seen I've been inspired by so many music videos lately where man there's there's just nothing to the video and I love it. Like there's so many times where it's just like uh a person sitting against the wall just lit in a really cool way uh with a guitar. I'm like, "Wow,

1:15:28oh, I love how that looks. Oh, I could just watch him do that all day." And there's nothing to it. Like there's, you know, compared to, you know, a billion cuts with a billion effects and, you know, all this stuff, all multiple cameras. It doesn't Yeah, it doesn't have to be that. I just I just prefer doing that, but it could be very simple. Do you make uh do you direct your own music videos or do you um rely on other people to work with us?

1:15:59Yeah, we're write, direct, and then act. But we're lucky to have uh George Gford as our uh uh director of photography where he can he can really take what I have in my head and then make it better. Like I don't know how he always makes it better. like it it he is such a gift uh where where I'm like I I see him with the camera and I see what he's he's way he's moving and stuff I'm like oh my god this is what are you doing George and then he plays it back for me I'm like oh my god this is amazing like like I yeah

1:16:35I thought you just I thought you were messing up like but it it is is kill yeah it's killer killer footage so yeah we're very ble blessed to work with him and he um yeah he really makes the ideas come to life and his his uh grasp of light is really what sets him apart I think where he knows like he told me and I regret it now but in the last music video he's like uh there's just not enough light moving around and he's like why don't why don't you you know he told we had some other guys on he's like why don't you grab a

1:17:12light and just kind of move it the whole time I'm like why would he move the light that doesn't make any sense George, like there's no what would make the light move around. He's like, "It's a music video. It needs the light to move around." I'm like, "Yeah, but but it doesn't make sense." Like I don't I So I told him, "No." I'm like, "No, don't. We already shot a bunch without it moving around. I don't want to do it again without all moving around." Guess what? The shots with with the light moving around are the best shots. It looks the best. It doesn't need to be explained.

1:17:42And yeah, so now I regret not not listening to him because he's he's usually right. He usually has Yeah, it's nice to see his his vision uh on top of what I the the the limited information I give him and see what he he does with it. It's nice. I feel like part of the joy of when you get to collaborate with people is like seeing like things from their lens and like you were saying like it's like how they'll just like next level whatever the thing you originally thought of. Yeah. It's it's uh it helps it helps a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we would

1:18:23have been able to make like the uh the break the beat video or even the hardwire video um without without George's unique perspective. Something we did in the break the beat video I know no one else could do was uh we actually used the same technique that uh they use in Bladeunner to make the pupils glow kind of like you know like animals do. And the way to do that is very difficult. We actually had to set up a um a piece of glass on top of the the lens and then shine a light so it bounced off that that glass and go directly down the lens.

1:19:14And so the lens doesn't see it, but it picks up almost like the the lens has a flashlight coming out of it. And that gives it that that reflective look in your eyes. And we did that. And that was very difficult because one lining up a piece of glass in front of the lens and then lining up a flashlight to also then point straight up that where it would match perfectly, but then also match what we're seeing, what the end of the lens is seeing. So getting all that stuff, it was it was a lot to set up. And George had already researched that technique and knew

1:19:50exactly what to do. And uh yeah, there's no way we would have been able to do that technique without George, for sure.

1:19:56Oh, that's amazing. So, besides um Chris and George, are there other people that you really like to collaborate with? Uh when it comes to crane, uh we don't I mean our photographer we we love too. Uh that's Jim Fury Hesterman. Uh he he really uh I think he's the best photographer there is. So we make sure we use him for any photo shoots that that we're going to do. He he gets the call first. And uh early in Crane's career, it was uh Dave Strand. He was featured on two of the songs for the first album and uh yeah, he was really inspirational getting us going and and uh knocking out

1:20:51knocking out that album. So, but other than that, there hasn't Yeah. Yeah. It's really really George

1:21:02George and Chris and I uh when it comes to being being creative and uh and vis visually and then uh when and musically honestly it's it's really just Chris and I now. Well, it it's, you know, coming back to like where you were like, we found this right sound, we found this right template. And when you find the right thing, um, it's like, well, that's that's the right thing, you know, you don't have to keep on reinventing the wheel to to continue to develop that, you know.

1:21:36Yeah. We'll see. We need to push it push as far as we can.

1:21:40I I listened to an interview recently where uh I forget what it who it was. I want to say it was uh one of the guys from uh OMD and he he was saying how in every genre of music it was always the music that was pushed to its very limits that people remember the most

1:22:03like distorted electric guitar like they couldn't push it any farther and that was the sound that made that that decade and then after that like I think about like the 80s it was like the the the gated drum which like didn't exist well of course they had new instruments too synthesizers and stuff became really prevalent so that was kind of new uh and then I was thinking about this recent decades we don't have much like we don't really have many new instruments they're all kind of copies of old instruments or just old instruments and the only new things I was thinking of was like compressors

1:22:41and uh autotuners are getting pushed to their limits and this is what people are now wanting. They wanting this sound like pushed to its limits and uh it's just kind of cool to see like this kind of like this punk rock vibe is what people are latching on to most through through all these genres of like taking this instrument pushing it as past where it can go and that's what makes it unique. So that's what I need to do with my template now. I need to push that past where it should go and hopefully that'll be that'll be good for for a new album.

1:23:18Oh, I'm excited to see where you go with

1:23:22Yeah, I I'll need some help because I don't know either.

1:23:29Yeah. I don't know. I just I I I completely understand and relate to the to the to the push, you know, for sure. Where you're like, okay. I mean, I find that sometimes I write songs that are um beyond what is easy to sing and I'm like, "Oh, Tash, what were we thinking?" But, you know, you have to grow into your own shoes eventually.

1:23:50Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I did that with Break the Beat, man. That that song has so many verses. I think it's five verses and I I sing them fast and like it was a lot. Yeah. And and even then uh like recently Dark Triad, I tried to sing and annunciate as fast as I could. And it feels easy to me now to do it, but when I first started, when I first wrote it down, I was getting tongue tied over and over. I had to do so many takes to try to get it annunciated correctly and like in the right whatever in the right order and

1:24:27stuff and not uh fumble over my words. and it took a lot. But yeah.

1:24:35Do you do you have like um I don't know. Do you ever I mean obviously it's like you're you probably put a lot of work into like you know prepping for for your live shows, but like do you ever have moments where like you might forget a lyric or you know things like that just as a vocalist?

1:24:55Yeah, unfortunately it happens a lot. More the audience doesn't seem to notice. So, so Well, that's good. But yeah, I will mess up quite a bit. And like especially with the new new songs, it's very strange. Like I know what they need to sound like. Uh so I could just make some noises that are close enough and uh that's happened quite a few times in when I'm playing live. I'm like, uh, yeah, it's kind of like and then it just it just it works out.

1:25:32Yeah. Trying trying to remember the next

1:25:34is uh usually difficult. And usually the way it works in my mind, if I could remember the first word of the line, I'm But but if I if I can't like the next verse is coming up sometimes it's literally right up to the very second where I'm my mouth needs to open and that's when I remember what I'm supposed to say. That's happened so many times where yeah that's that's how it works for me now

1:26:03and somehow it comes out.

1:26:05Yeah. I think I'm like I don't remember having that problem in the past. I have it now though where I'm just I just up to the very second like what's the line? What's the line? I'm thinking in my head as like as as the songs progress I'm like oh my god what is oh what is that word what is a word right until the very now it's a word like right right when it when it hits.

1:26:29Oh my gosh. Well, um, uh, in terms of like, um, like tours, um, that you've been doing with Crane, um, are they more like oneoffs or do you do like some backto-back shows when you're out and

1:26:46We Crane is very different than

1:26:49We have not actually played many shows. We were lucky enough. So, we we met uh Hosiko doing a tour with them with Hardwire and uh we we played the crane music for for Eric and he loved it and he invited us to play our very first show with Hosico in Mexico City. So, our our debut show h happened to be in front of 3,000 people in the heart of Mexico City and um it was absolutely amazing and we we actually didn't even have the album done when he invited us and he was the push that got us to finish our songs, finish the album, practice them and I think we we had to

1:27:42do all that in three months. So, we had to finish I I think we only had three songs done. So, we had to finish five songs. We had to write two of them from scratch,

1:27:54get all that done in that amount of time, practice them, and then and play them live. So, it it was a lot. And thanks to him, we we got it done because who knows how long it would have took if we didn't have an opportunity like that. I don't know if it would have got done the same way and with the same uh Deadlines help for sure.

1:28:18They do. Especially I'll procrastinate forever unless I have a deadline. There I I'll always put it off.

1:28:27Well, what was it like playing in in Mexico City? Um what's it in terms of like just the from the technical standpoint like similar to Europe and that you have to think of converters and flying your gear and all of that? I don't think we had converters and we uh we got asked to play as hardwire once in Mexico City so we kind of knew what to expect and uh the first time we going to Mexico City uh here's here's unwritten rule rule of the road uh don't take your really expensive uh gear to another country because that's how a lot of people will um

1:29:12Uh they'll launder money through expensive gear and they will tax you if you show up and you have really expensive gear and they don't know if you're legit or not. They don't know if you're an actual band. And you there's a whole process for declaring your gear and getting uh I forget what it's called now, but you have to have it you have to have it evaluated and have a a declaration written by the US government saying what you have and what it's worth. And then they check that when you get there and when you leave to make sure it's the same that matches with that list from the government.

1:29:49And the first time we went, we had no clue. We got stopped in Mexico. We landed in Mexico and they're like, "Is this a music gear?" And and Chris had his whole drum kit and like these really nice cases, these nice rolling cases. And we're like, "Oh yeah." Like, "How much is this worth?" because it gets to a certain point like it's uh if it's not worth much then they don't care. But if it's worth too much then that's when they care because that can be laundered for money,

1:30:18And uh we're like yeah this is a really expensive drum kit. We need to let us go. And they're like no no no. And uh yeah, it took it took me sweet talking the the lady there uh to please let us play the show and take our gear and not get fined basically or get taxed uh to bring our gear into the the thing or really what they were supposed to do is not let us in. Yeah. And after that we tried to play another uh show in Mexalei and we got stopped at the border and um we had one of them papers. We actually

1:30:55spent the money. We got it we got it done. Uh we had it insured too and uh it was very expensive and it was took us like a month to get it and it was a lot of work and for whatever reason we accidentally did not bring it. We did not bring our paperwork when we went. We went through all this trouble, spent all this money, had it all set up ready to go, doing it all by the book,

1:31:21and we show up and we forgot it. and and and we're like, "You know what? Let's just let's just see if they stop us. Let's just go." Guess what? They stopped us. And they're like, "What's what is what are these big big cases in the back

1:31:34Uh music equipment, you know. So, we're like, "Yeah, if you want to bring this gear in, it's going to cost you $800." They wanted to to tax us $800 to bring our equipment in.

1:31:51Yep. So we we ended up we had to cancel that show which really sucked

1:31:56let our fans down because we uh

1:31:58we messed up.

1:32:00But yeah, it's easier without without so much gear now. So that's the plan going

1:32:08Makes all the

1:32:11keyboard and a uh and a drum pad and uh yeah, nobody cares about that. Yeah, it's it is interesting because it's pretty it depending on where you go, it's like there's all it's like for whatever reason musicians seem to have the red flags for border patrols, you know.

1:32:34Well, I don't know. Usually, we look kind of like hooligans. We look a bit like ruffians. So, yeah, they're probably What is this guy? Why does he dress on black? What does he got back here?

1:32:50So, you have to have the most responsible person like representing or the most responsible looking person representing when you go across the

1:33:01Yeah. At least wear a shirt with color on it and then maybe it won't stop you.

1:33:08We have a a awesome uh question from Curtis Campbell. Uh, when do you know you have a good song to write or have you ever had any problems to write it?

1:33:22Uh, it's been both. Uh, sometimes I'm I'll struggle to make a song. Uh, but a lot of times too, I'll I'll I'll be inspired and uh I could write the whole song in a night. So, it's it's both. It just really depends. It just depends on how inspired I am. if I'm actually if I trying to force it or if it it if I'm so inspired that I I just have to like or or I have an emotion or something that I have to really put down. So that's that's the

1:33:53So when you are running into that like lack of inspiration I guess um like how do you how do you approach it from Uh, again, it would be cutting cutting the time spent on it short.

1:34:10Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah.

1:34:12And same thing when I'm inspired, cutting the time short.

1:34:15Uh, just not

1:34:19Yeah. Especially if you're not inspired. Uh, just stop. Think about it.

1:34:27Stop and think about it. Get inspired. away. Do you know how many tracks we have? I think uh Crane is working on its 144th track.

1:34:42So, that's how many ideas have died. that's how many ideas have died and been left on the cutting room floor. So, yeah. Every time I start a new track, every time I start a new track, I I I number it. So, that's where we're at. Yeah, it's it is interesting what ends up making the cuts where you're like, you know, you go through it and you explore it as far as you can go and then, you know, and then some things where you're like, you know, this one just isn't going to, you know, end up being the right thing.

1:35:19Yeah, Chris always has the final say, too. I trust him for for all that stuff. So, and and arranging the the songs in order on the album, that's always Chris. I just do not I I might have something to say, but usually he just nails it. So,

1:35:37Yeah. And what what gets cut, that's always up to him, too. Well, um uh if there aren't any more questions, um are there any um parting parting wisdoms or words and places that we can find Crane to support you that you that you would like to share out with us, Ryan?

1:36:02Yeah, we're uh mostly on Instagram. So, if you want to reach out to us there, uh I think it's Crane Sound on Instagram.

1:36:14I have to look now. I forget.

1:36:16I know.

1:36:18And then, uh I think I forget. I think it's Crane Sound on Instagram. Uh but yeah, we're on there mostly. We're also on on Facebook.

1:36:28For our music, we're we honestly I love Spotify. I am absolutely in love with Spotify. And uh yeah, all all our new music is there. Uh so that' be the best place to listen to us. Well, if you want to buy it, you would buy it uh on Band Camp uh through our label through Scanner, Dark Dimensions. That's where you'd be able to buy the album. And then physical copies, uh it's honestly hard to get in America. Uh it's it's in Germany at uh at uh special stores like like Papa Knot. There's a bunch of stuff I don't know from from because our label is a German label. Uh so it's all made

1:37:08in Germany and um I know you could buy it through Pop and I and there's there's a few other retailers too. Uh but there really is no retailers in America for the physical copies. well, but there are the places that you can experience your music digitally. So

1:37:30yeah, Band Camp and

1:37:32and Spotify for sure.

1:37:34Yeah. Yeah. Well, dear friends, um thank you so much for taking the time to hang out with us and Ryan, thank you so much for for sharing your awesomeness with us. It's always so good to get to chat with you.

1:37:49Thanks. Yeah, thanks for having me on. It's good to see you, Tash.

1:37:54Well, um we will see y'all next week. Uh we have um Eli Lev uh joining us next week who is a solo artist um solo acoustic folk artist um who tours like incessantly um who's on the road all the time and will be sharing his wisdom with us. Um, but in the meantime, I hope you'll have a wonderful rest of