John Giovanazzi, in full

0:18Hi friends. Uh welcome to the first episode of Unwritten Rules of the Road uh for 2026. Um I am joined today by my amazing wonderful friend John um who is um the creative director behind DS Bunker here in LA. Um we're doing a really special episode uh live in person which is such a treat. I never get to do this. Um John, thank you so much for joining us

0:49You're welcome. Glad I could be here live in person.

0:51Yes. [laughter] Um so the private jet in So, first of all, um, congratulations on the 30th anniversary of Doss Bunker. That is incredible.

1:03Thank you. We're old. It you feel it some of these times, but it's nice to be able to keep going and keep, you know, doing our thing and uh, demonstrate it for a new audience.

1:14I think new generation.

1:15I think that's like gosh, I mean, from when you started out, did you even imagine that it would be going for this?

1:23Oh god, no. Nothing. nothing went that long, you know, like

1:26even the things that were successful beyond any imagination of us ever getting to their level had always kind of petered out or ended for one reason or another. So, it's just with night life being so chaotic, there was it's actually kind of crazy to think about that we survived like, you know, at least the early 2000s when stuff was really weird.

1:46What was the early 2000s like in in in LA like that? It was just a lot of um it's like when the uh how do I say this? The environment changed a lot like in the nightclubs when everybody kind of did the shift into bottle service and EDM like that kind of took over everything. So there wasn't a lot of space for the alternative clubs to exist anymore. So, you know, we kind of got banished to sports bars and Wednesday nights places and anyone that would have us

2:20off nights on at gay clubs.

2:23So, I guess in the peak of that, like what made you keep going? probably just being stubborn. [laughter]

2:33I [snorts] love it.

2:34But, I mean, you know how it is. That's a lot of a lot of this the music that we like didn't really have a platform and so if we didn't keep doing what we were doing there would be no platform for it

2:45and we are all very grateful that you have kept that going. Um I think that's really amazing. Um and it's allowed artists like myself to be able to like have a platform. Um, yeah. And I think especially gosh, LA is it's such a huge city and such a huge scene and I I don't know to have the courage to be like, I'm going to do this.

3:10There definitely wasn't courage. It was I think it was dumb, but um [laughter] once you get going, you just kind of, you know, like, okay, I have to see this through and let's keep doing this. And it's for me the the motion jooba thing is when you start working with a somebody on the smaller level and they start to see success and you kind of can feel your um place in that success a little bit and it's kind of what keeps us going.

3:35That's amazing. Um yeah. I don't know. I just off the cuff like in the last year have there been certain highlights where you're like this is why I'm doing this?

3:48Everything since the pandemic's been weird. So, I don't know if I would, you know, it's not the same as it used to be and it's kind of hard to place it into historical perspective.

3:57But, um, I'm kind of excited about what we have coming up this year because it's allowing us to kind of look back

4:02look a little bit farther back at at what we've done and how we've done things. And rather than doing like one giant um 30th anniversary event, we're doing a series of smaller events that kind of mimic how we would have done things in the past. And I think that's going to be really enjoyable.

4:17That's amazing. I love that you're looking forward and looking back at the same time. So, um,

4:22hope trip.

4:24Yes, time traveling. Um, are can you share some of the things that are coming

4:30No, absolutely not. [laughter]

4:32Please. Um the the thing that I've been focused on for the past couple months is we have that big show with Covenant coming up and we're not allowed to call it an anniversary for them, but it's they're calling it their 1986 to uh 2026 tours, you know, which is 40 years of the band.

4:50So they have a lot of they they'll have a lot of things to say.

4:53Yeah, absolutely. and a lot of material to cover, but it's, you know, their their story is so unique and interesting that um, you know, I'm really happy that we can be part of that.

5:05That's amazing. I I saw them um in San Diego um when they played with

5:12And just I was so blown away. Just incredible. Like really incredible. So that's going to be a really special show. Yeah. Uh when when is that going to be?

5:22March 13th. March 13th.

5:24So that's kind of the main focus at the

5:27Nice. That's really exciting. Um is there any other um shows in particular? Are you just kind of staying focused on on that one?

5:36Um immediately after that we're doing a show with not immediately like a month later with um Suicide Commando who are coming through probably to the US for the last time. It's kind of like right before their visas expire. And the way set up for artists to get visas right now or not get visas is um they're a little bit discouraged about potential future and um so we're going to be hosting them one last time and it's I'm pretty excited for that too but trying to you know keep my excitement in chronological order so it's

6:08I feel like

6:09so things get the proper amount of I feel like um the fact that you have been able to do this for 30 years um there is definitely some wisdom in pacing like yeah

6:22yeah it's you know it's very weird to plan things a year in advance and then not get excited for them and then you know if you get excited too prematurely you'll kind of lose your enthusiasm. So it's just try and put it in the back of my head like here's the thing like in six months we're going to start getting excited about this other thing. Yeah, I like that. I feel like it is definitely about pacing because as well like you have shows um and events throughout the whole year. Um yeah,

6:50I mean it's probably not too unsimilar to like a record where it's, you know, you're excited about it while you're recording it, mixing it, and then you have to turn around and get everyone else excited for it when it's out, you know, pressed and released, which is probably like sometimes a year and a half later.

7:05Yeah, that's true. It's funny because you sit on songs for a while and then like two years later they're out in the world and you're like, "Oh yeah, this is new for you." [laughter]

7:17I also do a lot of um I concept things pretty far out. So I always have a notepad of ideas like, "Hey, here's something that's, you know, like in my head right now, like might not come to fruition ever or might not come out for two years."

7:31I love your concepts. They are so brilliant. Um,

7:34I like to be able to think about them for a minute to see if, you know, like to see how they'll fit into the world and the what's going on and the current trends and see if they like hopefully fit into an emerging trend.

7:44Yeah. So, it's like you have like sort of an incubation period that you're able to like

7:50in the back of my brain. So um

7:55and my Google Docs

7:57I back of the brain Google docs I I have I have my my growing list myself. Yeah. Very very helpful. I think that like I don't know um it's interesting because I feel like you've had so many different layers of creativity um through your DJing, you know. Um, incredible DJ. Um, and also like the nights that you put together and I I mean I loved your venue complex that you had as well.

8:31I did too, but I'm glad that it's in the past. It was a lot. Like

8:35I don't recommend anybody ever open a small music venue. It's

8:39if you like music. [clears throat]

8:41Yeah. Oh, interesting. Okay. It's it's like anything else where you everybody the world sees the part that's exciting and that they think is interesting but you know people don't see the you know what you're there doing during the day and the things you have to do to stay open pay the bills. It's um by the time Complex closed I didn't listen to music for enjoyment for like two years afterwards.

9:03And so it was nice to be able to kind of like use spot use use streaming again and like listen to records. It was, you know, I kind of enjoyed rediscovering

9:13Hey, I used to like this.

9:15Yeah, that's it's it was a really intense um venture. I mean, I've talked to other people who've had venues that have shared something similar where it's really intense and so much work.

9:30And, you know, the nightly pressure of, you know, it might just be another show for you, but for the artist playing, that's their show. And, you know, it's takes a lot to get everybody on the same page and to funnel everyone to get similar um effort and enthusiasm levels like it's a show every night.

9:49Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

9:51And for the patrons too, you know, like they're coming to see a performance and you have to deliver, you know, a top-notch performance every night.

10:01I think that's true. If you truly care about it, which you do.

10:05Yeah. I've been doing it long enough I have to.

10:07Yeah. [laughter] I mean, not technically. I mean, there are definitely people that don't, but you are an example of a person that

10:16Yeah, we don't have to talk about them.

10:19Yeah. So, um I was wondering actually like um it seems like you've really like channeled your focus and your energy towards um promotion. Um, would you say that's like something that you feel like is one of your primary passions?

10:38Yeah, I there was a point a long time ago where I recognized there was like a fork and I had to um focus on a certain area because you can't multitask like you know, promoter needs to be full-time and you have to be a DJ, you have to focus on it full-time and if you're going to be a in a band, you need to focus on it full-time.

10:58And I was I looked at the just the landscape of how the city was at the time, which I think is fairly similar. Um, and it's I was I thought I was like there's a fairly decent number of pretty good DJs in town, but there are not a lot of very good promoters in town. So, I think that's where I'll be able to make a difference.

11:18Yeah. And you do. Um, okay. So, we we we were starting to talk about this before we started the stream, but I was wondering um like if you could share what like how you approach promotion, like what you think a promoter

11:35Um it's kind of like the what's the main guy in the circus called? You know,

11:39the ring leader.

11:39Yes. The ring [clears throat] leader is kind of what it feels like. you know, everything from concepting the event out to finding the location to um you have to put together a rough idea of how many people you think are going to come to it and who's going to come to it, like what your target audience is and craft the marketing plan and art direct, you know, the the assets, the graphics and the posters and the advertising and things like that and then do the booking and, you know, if it all comes together, then you have a good Do you um do um promotions primarily um

12:15digitally or do you also do physical physical media as well when you promote?

12:19Um I will do selective physical but it's most mostly digital these days. It's you know it's so much easier and more effective than the unfortunate amount of time that everybody spends on their phones. It's you know the you have to get to people through their phones or you're not going to have any success.

12:35Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. That's true. Um, you know, you were talking too about like um, you know, and you and you were saying it very casually, but I'm like these are all like monumental things like finding the venue and and you mentioned visa earlier. Um, with with certain artists that are international, you have to like navigate that.

12:55Yeah. There's going to be a um big drop off of international artists soon.

13:00Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. Unfortunately. Um, yeah. I think it's one of those things where I'm I'm so grateful that you've been able to bring in the artists that you have. Um, Suicide Commando is going to be amazing.

13:14I hope so.

13:15Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, if a person were to want to start getting into promoting um, you know, I I like I know you've mentioned um, in the past like just working with other people um, is assisting them. Is that kind of a good way to get started? Yeah, it's, you know, it's kind of like, I guess it's interning somewhere is kind of the the easiest path these days. I mean, I would not recommend getting into this. It's it's an easy way to kind of it's similar to the the saying of don't meet your idols because you definitely have to see the ugly side of the

13:54industry and it's that can definitely turn a lot of people off. Yeah,

13:58it's um but yeah, if you're determined to get into it, go get an entry- level job at a venue or a promotion company or an internship. It's, you know, and you can move up fairly quickly.

14:08Yeah. Gotcha.

14:10I think it's I mean, especially in in certain cities that have a really active music community, it's easier to find like people that are already doing the

14:19Yeah. But I would recommend that people go get a boring day job and then enjoy their music in their free time.

14:24Yeah. Well, for artists that are wanting to start out specifically in LA, um whether they're touring or local, um you know, it's it's different in every city, but um specifically in LA, like what advice would you give to an artist like that wants to get a show?

14:42There's I would seek out the DIY promoters because they tend to take the

14:48they'll tend to take chances on newer acts that don't have proven draws or followings just, you know, based on

14:54Yeah. And that's if you have one of those, one or two of those goes well, it's um the community hears about it and so it's um yeah, those that's what I would recommend.

15:04I really love it. I mean the I've I have found so much um like incredible uh resources through the DIY community, you know, in different cities. So that's definitely a very solid pathway for sure. And even if you go on Tik Tok, you can find like accounts that do um guides to different DIY venues in like throughout the country and you can put together an okay tour if that's what your goal is?

15:28Yeah, absolutely. I mean, from from your vantage point, would you say that playing shows is something that can be valuable to artists or would you say like staying um kind of more digital can be something that can also just if if a like an artist for instance doesn't want to go through the touring circuit.

15:49There are I've seen artists be successful with this, but for the most part, I don't think it's a very good

15:56Yeah. Because the easiest, you know, you're gonna make that visceral imperson impression on people that's hard to get through your phone or YouTube or

16:07It's true. I mean, there is really something magical about um the live music experience, the community.

16:14Yeah. When the kick drum hits you in the air from the kick drum hits you in the chest is like a feeling that you can't recreate sitting on your couch.

16:20Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. or the actual like people, you know, that are

16:28Yeah, it's true. Um I I I first met you actually at Kinetic Festival.

16:34Oh, wow. In the olden days.

16:35Yes. Um it was my first show with System Sin and I just remember like I didn't know anybody. I was super shy and nervous and you made me feel so welcome like right away. Um, and I love that you've brought that ethos into Doss Bunker. Um, would you say that's like kind of always been the way you've navigated? Just

16:57I mean, if somebody's curious about our community and what we're doing, there's it doesn't seem like why not be welcoming to them. It's it's kind of how I look at it is you want to give people a positive experience because they'll want to come back.

17:10Yeah. Well, clearly I have continued.

17:14We're still here. [laughter]

17:15Yes. Yes. But that is something I did notice. Um, you know, immediately when I went to my first Doss Bunker event was just how people just were very welcoming. You know, I feel like that's probably a really big part of when you want to grow a community is

17:32for us being in our weird location that we were in for so long that's now popular. Um, just getting there was kind of like the if somebody had gone through the effort to find this place and get inside it, like you could kind of tell that they they didn't they weren't necessarily part of the community yet, but they were curious enough that where you knew that they were not like going to be a problem.

17:51Yeah. Like they actually had to go through the rabbit hole and make the

17:58The dark street and

18:01stand in the line and

18:03it's a whole thing. Yes. Yeah. So, I I think that's something um if anybody has never actually had the experience of um going to one of these events, just to know that it's it's um it's not as scary as you think.

18:20Exactly. [laughter]

18:22Not just here. I I think it's the same everywhere else.

18:25Yeah. Absolutely. I think that's true of like the live music community as in in large, you know, I mean, of course, you'll meet the occasional, you know, bad apples, but for the most part, I scene has them.

18:37Every scene has them, but yeah,

18:39you can't let that be your um definitive

18:42Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it's interesting because um you know, having been such a long-standing um you know, entity, would you say you've shifted gears in terms of how you approach like

19:00Many times.

19:02Like I mean, you kind of have to um fit into the way everything's working. Like, you know, I don't particularly like dealing with the meta advertising back end. Like it's I find it soul sucking, but it's um

19:16it's where it's the most efficient way to connect to your customers.

19:22And it's um you know like after this I'm going to go home and craft the big marketing email for something we're announcing tomorrow. And it's um I'm you know not as very excited about doing that. But it's it's just part of what we do. Like

19:35you know I like and if it were me I would be handing out flyers on street corners still. Like it's I thought that was the that's how you meet your customers. That's how you can judge people's excitement level. Like you hand them a flyer, they look at it, their eyes get big or they look at it, throw it on the ground. That's that's your, you know, boots on the ground, instant gratific or instant reaction. Like, you know, what people's what the thoughts are going to be on the event.

19:57Yeah, I I enjoyed that part.

19:59Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely different. I mean, it'll be interesting to see like five and 10 years from now how that'll shift. Who knows?

20:07Watch someone else do it.

20:08I [laughter] know. Uh, I don't know. I mean, it's I I feel like um like you were mentioning like you you really do have to have a love for it, you know, to to continue to do what you do.

20:24Do you have like um different ways that you discover new music now?

20:30Um it's unfortunately a lot of just algorithms, but also following other people I know that whose tastes are aligned with mine and aligned with what we want to do as a brand. And it's just, you know, check out everything is the answer. Like every one of those band camp notifications on my phone, like on Fridays, I'll get thousands of them, but I usually go check most of them out. And it's you'll find some cool stuff, but it's

20:53it's a lot. Yeah,

20:54there's so much music out there. Like I think there's I mean I think people put out too much music is my opinion. Like I know that's they um you know the the industry thing for a minute was feed the algorithm release a new song every month or you know something like that but it's it's too much. It's you know like it's your fans are not going to like every one of your songs. They're not there's nothing for them to latch on to or get excited about it. It's you want people to when they see your you know your artist name pop up and like hey there's a new song to get excited

21:27about it. And it's I just feel when it happens on like a semi-weekly or monthly schedule, it's you don't have enough time to miss it.

21:36That's very true. That's very true. I think it's true of touring as well. Like

21:41Oh, yes. Absolutely.

21:45Like the whole local band thing is play all the time until you don't have to play all the time.

21:49Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I think it's Yeah. Gosh. I mean, I feel like we pressure ourselves to just get out there and do the thing. And I think there's definitely a lot of wisdom to just like kind of giving not just other people space, but yourself, you know, just a space to be like, let me just take a beat here, you know?

22:08Yeah. It's not just like not just let your um artist entity take a breather, but also like take a breather in life is

22:16You don't have to constantly be on.

22:19Yeah. I really I really appreciate that. You know, I've had some some mentors that have, you know, said like, "Go to a museum. You know, do things that feed your soul."

22:29Yeah. Read a book.

22:30Read a book. [laughter and gasps]

22:32I have a friend lately that's gotten almost essentially off her phone and um is just she's doing a whole curriculum of reading the classic Gothic horror novels. And our only communication lately has just been photos of whatever book she picked up at like the local bookstore. And it's always like, you know, some Edgar Allan Poe or something.

22:54Oh, that sounds amazing.

22:55I think she's having a very excellent time with it.

22:58Oh my gosh, that sounds amazing. Like, I might have to follow in those footsteps.

23:02Yeah, just find something that's going to get you excited and dive into it and hopefully it doesn't involve your phone. I was curious actually because I know like how hard you work on, you know, putting together events like um like what are ways that you recover? Like how do you feed feed your soul actually after putting together these really large events?

23:24Um the day after the event is always like a depressive zone. Like it's just whether it went great or or not. Even if it went fabulous, you're going from if what feels like the entire world wanting to talk to you, like leading up to the event, you know, your phone. On a week of an event, I'll get 200 maybe 300 texts a day.

23:45And then the day after event, none.

23:48And so it's just kind of like, hey, nobody cares about me after the event happens, which I, you know, isn't the case, but it's like you don't have anything urgent to deal with. And so it's I just try and um decompress I guess is the best way. Like

24:00do something make pick something that'll make you feel better. Just go get a massage or go for a long walk or

24:06I like to get facials.

24:07Mhm. I think that's important. Like I I feel like that's something that can get missed. You know, talking about the overdoing of things like Yeah.

24:15And it's also like why we do the events infrequently. It's, you know, we want we were running into a problem when we were doing the events regularly that um regardless of what we had going on, how cool it was or whatever, um or what else was going on that wasn't in our opinion equally as cool,

24:33um people would go, "Oh, well, I'm going to go to this thing that's happening this time because I know we can go to Dust Bunker next time because it'll be in a week or in a month or

24:42And so we shifted to our, you know, three times a year model. um where it's, you know, we want it the we want people to be intentional with coming wanting to come to our events and it's um

24:53it allows us to put more time and effort into crafting it and to booking it and promoting it and

25:00you know hopefully to get people to attend them and I think it works.

25:03I I really like the idea of being really intentional with it too. Yeah. It also gives space between them to do other things like um this year we're doing a couple actually announcing tomorrow we're doing a series of three events where we go back to our original location in Long Beach. It's like 200 or eight 180% capacity. So I expect all three of those to sell out fairly quickly.

25:25Um we might be doing a party on a boat.

25:28That's all sounds amazing.

25:30Yeah. [laughter] you know, just different things that get that engage the community but are not just like the same dance club at the same place, the same music.

25:41because there's lots of facets to the scene and, you know, we'd like to celebrate as many of them as we can.

25:46I love that you, you know, get really creative. I I was actually curious, um, if if you have, um, ever had an interest in making music yourself.

25:57Oh, no, absolutely not. No. I determined a long time ago that that's not my path.

26:02just I see a lot of other promoters who [snorts] make music that's what I feel is mediocre and their um

26:12their patrons kind of pretend to like it

26:16I don't want to ever have to have my friends or patrons pretend to like my music because they like coming to my

26:22That's fair.

26:23And also I feel like my strength is in the support.

26:26Yeah. you know, let me organize the party. Like, you can be the party.

26:32I think that's really powerful. But again, I mean, you still are exercising your creativity in different ways.

26:38Yeah. I enjoy crafting that the marketing plan and, you know, like here's how we're going to make this look cool and here's be cool.

26:46And here's the finding the artist that fits the the different event perfectly. It's, you know, like we talked a little bit about Moon 17

26:56and I think that they um so we have them playing with Covenant

26:58and so they both tie in because they both, you know, Moon 17 is essentially like a sci-fi EBM project and Covenant got started essentially as like a Bladerunner tribute act.

27:09I just

27:09there's a lot of connection there.

27:11Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's going to be such a good pairing.

27:15Yeah. Really, really good show. I'm excited for it. Yes. Do you do you find that like um I mean I I know that you put a lot of thought into putting it together, but um you know I this is a question about mistakes. Like sometimes have you had like things where you've put it together and you're like oo I'm not really sure or certain.

27:40The um almost all of them is when you do something successful and you're like hey this was great let's do it again. Mhm.

27:48And it's um you can never really replicate something. Exactly. And it's um we had a we did a multi-day event for our 20th anniversary that was went really well.

27:58And so we were like, "Hey, our ice in the venue was like, let's do this again." And so the 21st anniversary was a lot more difficult to line up because when you're booking with people, you can't go, "Hey, come play our 21st anniversary." It doesn't have the same ring to it and it's um things get more expensive quickly and it just it's you have the expectations of the original super successful event.

28:21Um you know in the fresh in the minds of the attendees and it's just it doesn't feel the same. So try to not replicate. Anytime I've had like things and I've going I kind of wish I didn't do this. It's usually when I'm trying to copy something that was successful that I had done previously.

28:38Gosh, that is actually really solid advice for artists as well.

28:43Just move forward.

28:44Just move forward. Yeah.

28:45Stay true to your vision, but move

28:48Yeah, absolutely. I think that's something that can be sometimes difficult to let go of, you know, because I think humans are just creatures of habit, you know.

28:57Oh, yeah. And it's it's also there's a, you know, a lot of data out there that if something worked, do it again.

29:04Yeah. But it's, you know, art and, you know, art's emotional and it doesn't always um, you know, play along to the numbers as they as people think they would.

29:16It's true. It's really true. Yeah. Reinvention is hard, but I think it's um

29:22I don't think you have to reinvent. I think you just have to do something that that's not replicating exactly what you did before. H. So, how do ideas come to you? Is this kind of out of the blue or [snorts]

29:38Yeah, sometimes out of the blue. Um, melatonin dreams are pretty good. [laughter] Um, no, seriously, it's just like looking at like I try to get inspo from what's happening. So, I'll look at other parties. I'll look at music that's coming out and be like, "Hey, how do we make this interesting like into an interesting event?"

29:56How do I get people excited about this?

29:59I love that. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's like especially if you have a a real idea of like um gosh, I mean it's it's it's a big it's a big vision thing, but just like how a whole group of people might respond to something. Yeah. You know,

30:18so a lot of it is how do I get little pockets of excitement and turn that into like a movement? Yeah. That's that is no small feat. I mean, um, again, like especially in I think larger cities. I mean, I I speak as a person who grew up in a small town.

30:39no farmers markets.

30:40Yes. [laughter] No farmers markets where I grew up. We were talking about farmers markets before and how much I love them. Um, but yeah, like it's just, you know, I a larger city. It seems like um almost overwhelming when I think about like how there's so much going on, you know,

30:59that is really I I worry about that and think about that all the time.

31:04Cuz I'll have conversations with other people and they'll be like, "Hey, what else is going on that's conflicting that night?" I was like, "Literally

31:09Yeah. Like it's kind of why I steer away from doing events in the summer because not only are you competing with all the other entertainment aspects, you're competing with the beach, with the sun, with day drinking, with people's pools,

31:21you know, with hikes, like

31:23Because if you go on a hike all day or like go hang out at the pool, you're not going out at night.

31:28You're you're just not

31:30No, it's absolutely true. I mean, I remember when you were um giving me some advice about like here's some great times to tour, you know, and times that you shouldn't be.

31:40Yeah. [laughter]

31:42Stay away from October. Stay away from

31:45Yeah. I've learned this the hard way. Oh my gosh. How many tours I've I've had where it's like, okay, this these three artists are are like literally the same tour at the same time. Yeah. I will always remember that day that um B&B Nation played the same day as Skinny

32:03Oh, okay.

32:05Like a mile apart. How did the shows do?

32:09I think they both did okay.

32:11Okay. Definitely a testament to the community. Yeah,

32:14for sure.

32:16I mean, I think that the um the Live Nation marketing data told them that it would be okay, and it was, but it's

32:24it's not a Sophie's choice that I was excited about making. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Like there's been so many times I've I've had similar where people are like, "Oh, this show is going on tonight." You know

32:40what's bad is when it's like four like smaller DIY shows and you're just like, "Hey, I would love to see all four of these bands, but they're all playing the same time at different corners of town and it's

32:52Yeah. So, when would you say are like good times to like plan plan for

32:58I like early summer like before Fourth of July.

33:01Because you're um

33:04you're not really going to run into too many weather problems or delays or anything like that and but you're not getting into the brutal heat anywhere

33:11And it's um after that you're just competing with people going to the beach and there's like at least in LA like all those free concerts and festivals and stuff and it's you never know when one's going to pop up.

33:20Yeah. Um I think after Halloween and before Thanksgiving is a underrated window because it's again you're you're going to get some weather but it's most of the time won't be too bad. Yeah. And it's people are you still have a residual

33:36hype from Halloween going and like you like dove fully into the holidays yet.

33:43That's true. That seems like a really nice time. And I love the fall.

33:47Yeah. Yeah. Like if you're out in a van, it's not too brutally hot for the most

33:52Yeah. And it's not like the brutal

33:56How many bands do we know that got stuck in Denver?

34:00Many. [laughter]

34:03We learned the hard way.

34:06It's true. Yeah. There's certain There's certain regions like MKO did a East Coast tour in December and we learned the hard way. Yes. How was your week in

34:22See, exactly. Yep. [laughter] We learn things where you're like, "Okay, this is when not to tour. This is Yeah. And you are human. You cannot beat the elements."

34:32Yeah. It's

34:34It sucks if like your van breaks down and like you're not getting it fixed if somebody taking care of this like you know like I've got some people coming through who don't sort out accommodations for themselves. I was like where are you sleeping?

35:23Yeah. Gotcha.

35:26Or you look at the writer what are you eating? Like

35:30Eat a vegetable you will not die.

35:34Yeah. I mean, it's especially if like artists are not used to touring.

35:37Yeah. I don't care if you get sick after my show, but eat healthy before it.

35:41Yes. Exactly. [laughter] Kind of important. Yes. Yes.

35:47Yeah. It's It's a thing. I mean, staying healthy on the road is not easy. Like,

35:52Tap in John Siren on this.

35:54Oh, yes. John Siren knows the ways. This is how I learned to tour. It's true. So much wisdom from John Siren. I always bring the rice cooker and slow cooker because of John.

36:04I had to give my rice cooker away because my um kitchen wasn't big enough.

36:11maybe maybe the new place.

36:12Yeah, maybe new place. Yes. I love having ours. It's like kind of a requisite and the band's used to my cooking. So, yes.

36:20Yeah. Very important.

36:22Do you ever um cook for the bands or do you just Okay.

36:26Yeah, that'd be a lot. I don't mind I like going shopping for the hospitality stuff and like to see if I can like I like buying local products and like here's some new juices or fruits or something that's in that you guys would enjoy and

36:39make your experience um memorable here

36:42you know I'm not most of the time they don't want homecooked food like backstage you know sit back there at the crockpot like nobody wants that [laughter]

36:51I don't know I'm like

36:53most people don't want that

36:54most people don't want that though this is true this is true

36:57it's usually just get in eat something, do the show, and get out. Especially with how far apart the um cities are in

37:03on the West Coast, it's there's usually not a time a lot of time to

37:07hang out and have that like fresh meal.

37:10It's true.

37:10Like European style or whatever.

37:12Yeah. No, it's interesting in different regions how there's pockets where it's like I feel like, you know, if you're in the East Coast and the Midwest, you can hit so many cities in a short amount of time, but here on the West Coast, it's we're very spread apart. For sure. We're starting to get little pockets of scenes so people could play like kind of regional shows though. It's interesting, you know, like Palm Springs and Riverside and I mean, Orange County has always been there, but that's always a mixed bag.

37:38Yeah. No, that's exciting.

37:41That's exciting. I I feel like that's actually probably opening up a lot more possibilities for artists. Um, especially DIY artists, you know.

37:49Yeah. Like if you're playing to 100 people in, it doesn't you don't have to worry about radius clauses and cities being too far apart. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, LA in and of itself is so huge, but you know, if you're just playing the one show in LA,

38:04I've definitely seen people try and book like, "Hey, we're going to book Glendale and Santa Monica."

38:11Yeah, of course.

38:12Spoiler alert, that did not go well.

38:16Yeah, it's it's Yeah, that's even though they're spread apart, but

38:22yeah, I still get people all the time, hey, yeah, we're playing Long Beach and we're going to play um downtown LA and then we're going to play Hollywood. Like, no, you're not.

38:28No, [laughter]

38:32I do appreciate like how you are like have always been very giving with being willing to share your wisdom, you know? I feel like it's it's helped me a lot. I've learned so much. Yeah, absolutely. Like you you're always like

38:47so giving. Um

38:49well, no one wants to see anybody else make the same mistakes that I had to make or you had to make, you know? It's

38:53if you can help nice, well-meaning people not do those, it's

39:00makes you feel nice. It makes you feel like all the crap that we've gone through is somewhat worthwhile.

39:05Absolutely. Absolutely. Like, okay, don't do these things because [laughter]

39:12Because these are mistakes I may have made myself.

39:14Yeah. Do not try and play a show on

39:17Oh, I did not know this was a thing. Okay, good to know.

39:21On things like that, like people want to dress up and go out and party and dance to [ __ ] the one ministry song.

39:26They don't want to watch a band. They don't want to pay like ticket price. They want to be in costume. I actually went to a successful show on Halloween. They were like, "Just prepare." And I was like, "I wouldn't have thought about

40:07Or like how Cold Waves was always like kind of like potentially lining up against Cubs games in Chicago. think,

40:12yeah, it's things that you wouldn't quite know, right? Yeah.

40:20We played a show in Seattle and I guess there was like a Taylor Swift um concert happening the same day, so people were warning us about the traffic. They were like, just prepare yourself because it will take you much much longer to get to where you're going. So,

40:34yeah, like be careful booking Sunday shows in LA on during football season.

40:38Okay, this is this is good to know. Yeah. Well, are there I mean besides like the shows coming up um like what's what's exciting for you this

40:53Um regarding the club.

40:56I'm just really excited to kind of like lay out our like our full history of like our legacy and cement that a little bit. Like I'm working on some other projects, but I'm not sure if I don't want to talk about them because I'm not sure if they're coming through at this point because I've had some some delays on them. And it's um but we're trying to do some things that definitely um make our mark.

41:18And it's like a perfect example of something I'd love to get done is there is no Dosmoker Wikipedia page. Every time we've ever tried to make one, they it gets deleted.

41:29We're mentioned on tons of bands. Like we there's all the links. I don't know how to do it. It's

41:34okay. So this is the thing that needs to get fixed.

41:37It's on the It's at the bottom of the list. It's on the list, but at the bottom. Yes. Yes. I really love birthdays and I I love that it's like it's like reflection. You get a chance to like reflect and I think that it's like it's such a beautiful thing to be able to commemorate, you know, your anniversary like you were saying like going through the history

42:00Oh, I am booking some out of town DJ dates to try and like help spread the word of the celebration. So,

42:07book me.

42:08Yes. Yes.

42:09Hit the DMs. He's awesome.

42:11I'm going to uh Vegas and Tucson in a couple weeks and then Atwater Village.

42:18talking to Montreal and Chicago. Um maybe Europe.

42:23Just trying to go as many places as

42:25That's amazing. Are you going to get to see Sam in Tucson?

42:29Yay. That's awesome. I I love that you're um well spreading spreading the wings. Are there any particular places that you would really love to to go?

42:41Um, I'm really excited about going back to Chicago. Like, I love Chicago.

42:44Yeah, Chicago's amazing.

42:47Yeah, we um

42:48tons of friends, great food.

42:51When in when are you going?

42:54Uh, end of March.

42:55Okay. So, after after the Covenant show.

42:58Yeah. There's an event that I don't want to leak that's not announced yet, but should be getting announced in the next week or so. It's

43:07I think if you're from Chicago and you know what happens at the end of March, like you probably know what I'm talking about, but [snorts] I don't want to be the one who spills those details.

43:17Well, I'm really excited. I feel like I don't know. It's like there's a lot of really amazing things on deck for you this year.

43:24Doing my best.

43:25Yes. [laughter] I feel like I don't know. It's really inspiring. Um just also a testament to just like um leaning into what you're really passionate about. You know,

43:36that's a lot of it for me is just finding the finding the parts that you can get really excited about and focusing on those and try to not have to do the parts that you're that are dragging you down.

43:46Yeah. I feel like that's that's Gush. I mean, I think if you sometimes do things because you think you're supposed to is when you get into trouble, right?

43:55Yeah. Like for me personally, the my least favorite thing is when you get um solicited for a tour and they're like, "Hey, here are the three bands.

44:05Here's the artwork. Here's the ticket price. Um and have at it." Like you're just you're not there's no there's nothing on my side that's creative. Like

44:14maybe that like they they'll usually provide the music that you're going to play between songs between acts too. Like there's nothing for me to do on the creative side. like

44:22no um art directing a flyer or I like putting the lineups together like picking the bands that make sense and

44:30if I can't do that it's like not fun for

44:33I think that's important like really important. Yeah. I I always love getting to collaborate with people that are really charged up about whatever it is that they're doing. I mean, the same can be said within a band. You know, everyone needs to be charged up about it. Otherwise, it's sort of like, well, then why are we doing this, right? So,

44:53let the drummer have their solo.

44:54Yes, the drummer needs their solo. [laughter] It's true. More drum solos. I have to poke at John about that. It's funny because John is so not about the solos, but he's so amazing.

45:11Truly humbled. And

45:12if he doesn't want to do it, then

45:14Yes. Yes. But yeah, no, but I I do feel like it's so important to just like really um if you look at a show or an event as kind of a co-c collaboration, I feel like everybody wins in that way.

45:32I fully agree. Um, not my favorite. And it's usually just I mean it usually goes one of two ways. Either just like you don't do the thing that where the conflict is is going to be at or you just both kind of like bite your tongue and proceed. Yeah. Well,

46:11in a perfect world, the audience will never know anything wiser, but it's just, you know, sometimes you have to sometimes you have to work an event with people who you don't really that you don't get along with and vice versa.

46:25Yeah. I mean, I think it's inevitable. You will always and it's at at some point bump heads or, you know, have to deal with people that are bumping heads and just figuring out how to navigate that, you know. So, yeah. But um

46:39we're not do it. [laughter]

46:43Yeah. But I feel like it's like for the most part though, like when you're really, you know, working with people that are really passionate about what they do and they're they love what they they do that inevitably there's going to be a lot of joy in the room.

46:55You know,

46:56but that passion is also sometimes when the conflicts come in because people's passion, you know, extends into There's a strong vision and there sometimes can be two very strong

47:22Too many cooks is the want to have somebody who's leading the

47:53And one might not be better than the other or you might even choosing the the second best idea. It's to have a cohesive idea is better than merging two ideas together in my opinion. Yeah, we talked about this before the stream, but I really love that that is your like role in Doss Bunker is that you are a creative director, you know.

48:18It's my favorite part of it.

48:19I love it. I love it. Um, but those of you here, please come check out the incredible Dust Bunker events that John puts together. Um, they

48:58March 13th with Covenant. Let's do it.

49:00It's going to be awesome.

49:01And Moon and Moon 17.

49:02And Moon 17, which we love.

49:04Yeah. Come early for them.

49:05Yes. Yes. Yes. They're so good. So yeah, hopefully we will see you all there.