Julian Shah-Tayler, aka The Singularity, in full

2:20Hi friends. Um, this is Unwritten Rules of the Road. I am Tash and I am joined today by the incredible Julian Shaw Taylor. Julian, thank you so much for joining us today.

2:34Well, thank you so much for having me. It's been we've known each other I guess for a long long time and I'm thrilled that you're doing this because you've had a lot of my favorite artists and friends on already. So that's great.

2:47I I we were just chatting about what a small world it is and um I I really love that about the art and music world is that um you either end up collaborating with each other or you have like very small degrees of separation.

3:01Oh, definitely. Seven degrees of Kevin Bacon as they say. Yes. And how many degrees of Bowie?

3:09A one degree of Bowie to everybody. He was everything to everyone, I think.

3:14Oh my gosh. Like truly such an inspiration. So, um, for those of you who are new to Julian, um, Julian inhabits many worlds, many projects. Um, I first encountered Julian, um, um, as he was performing, um, as part of the David Bowie tribute band. Um, and uh, really blew my mind. Like really incredible voice, performer. Um, and I I I was actually um,

3:45you're making me blush.

3:46Oh, I'm sorry. It's all true.

3:49I like blushing. It's fine. You can go on. That's true.

3:53Um I I was actually wondering um if if and I heard you discussed this actually um in another interview, but you were talking about the difference between a cover band versus a tribute band. And I thought this was fascinating because when I watched your performance, like it really did feel like you were channeling Bowie. Um and so if you could share with us um the difference. So a cover band generally plays the songs of me multiple artists, does not make any attempt to resemble the artist in any way and and maybe sings, you know, if you sing Bowie in the voice of Jeff Buckley, that's not

4:30a tribute, that's a cover. If you sing in in a somewhat similar voice, which arguably people have told me I have a similar voice to his, although I listen to myself, I think now there are plenty of people who have a better, more similar voice, but that's fine. I'll take it. Uh, and you know, sometimes I sort of make make some kind of effort to resemble the artist in question, which means wearing the clothing that they might have worn. And that's a tribute band. A cover band will generally cover multiple artists and not resemble one specifically. That's the difference.

5:06I I really love um like the theatricality about it. Um, and I was just wondering, did you just study like different videos and like watch his his performances and that's how you learned how to emulate?

5:20To to be perfectly honest, no, not not a bit. I mean, I've I've grown up obviously, as we all have, um, in our scene with Bowie videos and sort of, you know, mostly sort of he does epitomize the sort of cool of, you know, rock and roll. He's not he's not a a David Lee Roth. He's he's a kind of arty cool version of that style of performance. And he was also I guess because of his mime background, he he would make vast movements and stuff like that. And I come from a similar sort of background. I mean, I've danced professionally and I watched a lot of

5:59his thing. So I've never emulated him completely, but I have taken some signature moves like the archer for example. I mean, you know, people who know Bowie know these photographs. So I'll do them. It's mainly from the photographic record. If there's a, you know, a sign that he would use in some sense, I I'll use that. But as far as the I don't deliberately emulate him, it kind of comes naturally. So, it doesn't feel to me, I mean, I watch some Bowie tributes, and I'm not going to disrespect anybody who chooses honor the master, right? But some of them, you can tell they're sort of

6:40deliberately emulating, and it it feels a bit forced. And I'm really trying my hardest not to be that because I I I don't really like that. And and so, if it comes naturally to me, I'll do it. And if it feels right at the moment, I'll do it. But I don't choreograph to match. I mean, there are certain moves. As I say, I have borrowed things from the 80s floor show, but mostly not.

7:09I think maybe that's why it feels so natural when you're performing.

7:13Well, I mean, it it does, as I say, it comes it comes as it comes. It doesn't I haven't got one song that is attached to one movement or anything like that. And there vocally sometimes I will differentiate in my mind between a Ziggy vocal and a Blackar vocal because obviously there was a massive progression from that nasal high tone to the kuner depth that he he attained. And I and I try my best to obviously I'm getting on there myself. So that the early energetic nasal glam is a little bit of a reach for me compared to the later kuna thing. I mean I've got the range but you know that the

7:58it's a diff it's a different approach. So sometimes is your is the answer. I know that um you are um uh well you just released uh Wild is the Winds

8:13um and you just had a show um I I was curious if you if you could share um like your inspiration behind the stationto station um project that you're I mean to me that is I mean obviously Bowie has a lot of high points and it's difficult to choose a favorite album but the one that when I heard I think there was there were three transition points for me because with Bowie when I came to him initially was obviously in the 80s when you couldn't escape it was endemic it was on every show he was being talked about it was this image of this guy with

8:52blonde buffont hair and he was you know very thin in wearing those kind of really tailored suits which was the antithesis of what I was interested in at the time. I was much more a doors guy. I wanted that, you know, romantic poetry of Rambo and and and all that stuff. And I studied philosophy at university. So Bowie was always that guy who really didn't represent me at all. And it was blues because, you know, China Girl and Modern Love even all of that stuff. It's blues-based, which it was not something I was that interested in. It was um then I sort of like retroactively

9:32through a friend explored more of his work and when I heard time was the first one that turned my head because time live on on the um uh glass spider talk he was descending from a spider on the phone singing the song time and that song really got me because it's kind of vaudeville and it's really you know cabaret by Liza Minnelli I like I was that could have come from cabaret soundtrack. So I was really intrigued by that. But when I heard station to station for the first time in all its glory, the threepart epic and you know the seven minute intro, I mean

10:11it's ridiculous. It's the same chords for seven minutes, sound effects and the same riff. I was really intrigued and then I explored the rest of the album and the rest of that album and his persona at the time this icy cool thin white duke persona kind of crossed the streams into the goth interest that I

10:33because I'm pure fan and suede was another big band for me the London suede as you know them in America and all of that super cool lighting the cheekbones the thin like the the fashion of that all of that grabbed me and Diamond Dogs and Station to Station just grabbed me and that was the two records which made me just a huge fan. Then Station to Station just settled as my favorite Bowie album because it's funky, it's kind of gothy, the character he's singing in is just emotionally clempt which as a Brit I relate to. So that is that an an okay explanation? I don't know.

11:20No, it's it's it's really um inspiring actually. Um you know, I wanted to actually also like asking about your original music. Um you sent me this beautiful album, the you know that that tells the story of a of a love story.

11:39Yes. Yes.

11:41Which is a beautiful album. Yeah.

11:43Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. It's definitely It's not a concept album in the traditional sense of the thing, but it is absolutely the the the span of the record contains both the the fall of one relationship, the rise and the the ridiculous heights of the second relationship and then the desperate attempt to keep that together and then the next record tatamay which has been one of you know people I've second album two of of the year last year with Newway podcast called Hatamay is the devastation of the end of that So, it's kind of a concept of, oh what's happening here? Whatever. I mean,

12:27I I have a a disappointingly trained philosophical attitude towards matters of the heart because I've been through plenty of fallen relationships. And uh, of course, I accept my part in it, but it's their fault, not mine.

12:46Of course. Of course.

12:48I have to tell myself that otherwise, you know, I'd fall apart. Well, I mean, I think it's one of those things too where with like um the the heart the heartache um is is so beautifully expressed through through the music um as many albums have been like um yeah on the tracks.

13:13I know. Um I but I was it was it's interesting to me that simultaneously you've been um like creating these um Bowie songs and I was curious like um if one has inspired the other like as you're creating music in one lane if like in the other lane it gets It it definitely there's a song on Elysium and it's the one song where I just gave in and just said right I'm gonna try and sound a bit like Bowie on this song and it wasn't in the song it was in the guitar solo at the end

13:47because it was actually in Robert Frip I mean I I'm a huge Frip fan when Frip and Bowie work together that is magic I mean there's no denying that is you know Heroes that whole record is just Robert Frip owns Heroes and Mike Garson owns Aladdin Insane in my head I mean obviously the Bowie is the genius Maestro conducting the whole thing. But when Robert Frip is adding to fashion, for example, there is that's undeniably one of the greatest guitar solos of all time because it's so oblique and weird and this impenetraably odd, but once you've heard it, the dissonance becomes inextricable from the song. I mean, I've

14:29heard people iterate fashion and not emulated Frip's guitar on it, and it's ruined the song because they are so signature. And I So, you know, in some ways, it's like that guitar sound and solo by Frip is directly influencing the end of the end of the line. Everything else is an accident. Like if I if I chose a chord sequence that maybe Bowie would have chosen that not many other people had, it's not because I'm referencing Bowie consciously. It's just that I can't escape my musical influence. So it's it's Beatles, it's Radio Head, it's Bowie, it's Kate Bush, and if you and it's Prince to a degree.

15:12So those five people are the core influence of what I do. And I can't escape. Benjamin Britain is another one. Um, Debusi is another one. Like, I can't escape those influences, but I'm not deliberately applying them to my music.

15:30Those are great influences, by the way. Such great influences. Yeah.

15:34Thank you. I I I like to collect things which live in the same lane but aren't exactly the same. You know, I think I mean, I love Bow House, but it doesn't influence the way I write.

15:45I love Jane's Addiction. that doesn't influence the way I write that Zeppelin have crept into the next record because I love Zeppelin and there's something about the and that's the one that Brian Villion plays on and he's the right guy for that very specific it's pounding it's it's I mean I can imagine him on stage with his you know Yeah. I mean it's so interesting. Um I I've I I heard that um there were many composers like you know in back in the day that the way they learned composing was to actually like transcribe the work of other composers and then it somehow absorbed into them like they um just

16:31sort of inevitably learned. And so I think it's so interesting when you learn from great songwriting um and you kind it gets absorbed into your subconscious how it can kind of leak into your own work and in good ways.

16:43It's the harmonic relationships, isn't it? It's like if you have if you listen if you only listen to Chuck Barry, you're going to be writing 12 bar blues. I mean, and it's no there's nothing wrong with that, but if you're always listening to Shernburgg, it's likely you're going to do a serialist piece. And and it's and that's fair enough, I think, because you can't do anything new. I think the last new kind of music was acid house and this is a really long time ago, you know? I mean, all they can do now is I mean, you could argue Skrillex. I mean, you the dubstep. I

17:19mean, that's but that's drum and bass.

17:22So, you you can trace the roots of most things. And acid house to me that was a new thing. And I remember the advent of that in England. But then between acid house and now there's not enough technology that has been used effectively to make a new sound. And I think arguably now we're going to AI. Maybe AI will invent a new sound

17:46and then somebody will claim it as their make a million dollars leaving me in the dust. But you know

17:52oh we shall see I suppose.

17:56Well you never know. Well, I mean it's, you know, obviously there are so many there's been a splintering of of the music industry quite reasonably recently as I'm sure you know. I mean your band is Alice Band. Is it called Alice Band,

18:09Uh just Alice.

18:10Just Alice. Okay. It's Alice Band on MySpace or Facebook. Sorry. But um but so I mean Alice does I mean I love what you do. I think it's wonderful. It's very sort of cosplay friendly and there's very there's lots of drama in it. But it truly roots back to VAville and you know all all the Bowie and all those things. But I try my hardest to sound like something new and I just can't. I mean, it's it's there's always it's almost an anchor to have great influences from your past because you don't need you don't feel you need to forge forward everything's been done so well and so

18:49you're trying to be some you're trying to recognize that and appreciate it. Some I don't know. Am I talking nonsense now? Too many coffees.

18:57No. No. Never enough coffees. I I beg to I So, um I was wondering, this is my favorite part of um when you first start a song, but for you um like what does your blank slate look like? Is it like a melody that hums in your head or a lyric or um something that comes out

19:20That's that's a really difficult question. I I I like to answer that in these terms. So David Jay was recording with me for a while. Um, and he left his bass, you know, the magical bow house black base and he was back in Bow House at the time. So it had the sprinkly magic on it. So I used it. I just put some fret the bass parts together just to kind of try, you know, just what what it would do. And of course, every instrument you pick up says something new to you. It's like a different person. So his bass suggested several of the signature bass riffs on some of the

19:59songs on Elysium because that was the time when I was writing it. And so that is on the outside a weird way of coming up with the song and then I will thread it together conceptually and then sometimes songs will come together one line will illustrate a concept and then I develop the poetry that will become the lyrics and then I will put music to that. But a lot of the time now because I'm in the studio every day. I live with my studio in my front room unfortunately because I'm not wealthy. And um so I will make music every day. I'll I'll start a synth and and the

20:38synth will come up with some weird sound or a nice pattern and I'll record that, put a drum beat to it and then that will suggest a musical thing. I'll sing gibberish onto a melody and then eventually that will come into a song. One time I bought a new looper pedal and just played something, recorded it direct, no edits, and then wrote a song to accommodate that. So, it doesn't matter. It's like music is what I do all of the time, every day. And that means that it comes in so many different ways. And the the key to finishing a song is to iterate perfectly the concept that

21:16you're trying to put across. And that that's the important thing, the lyric to me. If the lyric makes sense as a coherent concept, then the song is finished and then the rest of it is just window dressing.

21:32I actually um take a moment to um say hello to everybody in the chat. Thank you so much for joining us today. Um Dusty actually had a question for you. Um uh it said, "Writing on the road, yay or nay or it's complicated?" I'm always writing. Could be out on the road, at home, in my studio. I mean, it it it it's been affected sometimes by I mean, I'm trying currently to distract myself from constantly doing music because what I would do is I', you know, bounce the MP3s, the backing tracks, and sing in my own head while I'm on a plane to try and finish a song.

22:15Tends to be writing lyrically more than melodically. and and I tried for a while. I brought a little synth with me. I'll show you this thing, which I cannot recommend highly enough. The Lumi. And I'm not sponsored by them, by the way. I'm actually sponsored by Roland, so I shouldn't be showing you this. It's supposed to light up, but I think it's run out of batteries, but these are great. So, you can connect them to your computer and and use them. I never did. I never did. I I tried on a plane to do it, but it just felt really arched to be sat on a plane next to somebody I don't

22:48know playing with this glowing feather lightning. It just felt really pretentious. So, I I I never did it. So, yes, lyrics, not so much writing

23:01Well, speaking of road, um I was curious, um what was your first live

23:09First ever live show. Do you count my um appearances in the cathedral when I was at Durham Cathedral Choir School?

23:18Yes, absolutely.

23:19So, my first live show, I mean, realistically, I was five and I sang with my whole in front of the whole school. Uh but then I was also a choir boy and I had I was a soloist at Durham Cathedral Choir School. So, I would solo from the age of seven in Durham Cathedral, which is, if you've been there, which I'm not going to assume you have, but if you haven't, you must, it's the setting for Harry Potter, Hogwarts, and it is a magnificent building with the reverb that you want. It's basically the Cockto Twins in stone. So, that that would have been it. that

23:57my first rock gig was when I was 15 at my boarding school and it was a learning experience and it's wonderful. Obviously, you know, all the girls thought, "Hey, this guy's pretty cool." So, that was that was that was a benefit I was hoping for and didn't know whether it would work, but it did. It totally worked. So, yeah. 15 my boarding school.

24:23Wow. And did so you knew pretty early on then that you wanted to be in bands and and create music then? Um I initially I mean I I was very I was sort of top in my class for biology and Latin, right? And this is from an early age all the way up because I I was quite I have quite a facility for language. That's one of my things. Um and I'm fascinated by human bodies. Love the human body. But um so I was going to be a doctor and I and I determined it was going to be probably a neur neurologist or a neuro surgeon. And

25:05then I realized that okay so this is a funny story. I've probably told it before my grandfather told me one day he was probably 92 at the time. He said Julian I'm I'm so tired and I want to die but your grandmother won't let me. And it gave me a sort of existential intake of breath, right?

25:30And he wasn't being unkind or he wasn't being cruel. He was a very very excellently lovely man, right? But then I I something clicked in my brain which to to be a doctor is to patch people up, right? and to prolong their lives and to and I I saw the effect of like oncology um treatments and things like this where people are given six months more by all this horrible regime of chemotherapy and and all this sort of stuff and obviously I want people to have longevity and survive and all that stuff and then I realized he he kind of made me think okay well sometimes maybe it's not my

26:09job to do that so what I would rather do is I would rather change people's minds and make their life and their state of being worth living, right?

26:20Because I mean I it there's a difference, isn't there? There's qual there's life and there's quality of life. And my grandfather was probably joking, but if I was having a terrible quality of life, I would want to feel good about my life again. I wouldn't want it prolonged where it was awful. So, and that's my thought. It's not what I push out into the world. So, I thought I'm going to become a psychologist. And then I realized that I love psychology, but I don't like the science of it. So, I was like, I'm going to be a songwriter so I can write things that make you

26:55existentially able to deal with situations. And a lot a lot of my music is about that. It's about acceptance of horrible things, acceptance of mortality and turning it on its head and keeping your head up high, if you will, which is my favorite song offium about, you know, your facing a horrible existential crisis, but you can deal with it through focus. Like I I do transcendental meditation, which is, you know, the meditation the Beatles did and David Lynch did and all this sort of stuff. And what that does is it grounds one in the reality that although we do live in maya which is the state of being that it

27:38is the leela which is the play of the universe. So taking things too seriously and taking yourself too seriously and taking the troubles of today too seriously can all be you can effect a screen saver onto your mind over that. If you go into straight transcendental meditation, you do 20 minutes and what it does is it loses you your consciousness for 20 minutes and when you come back into your body, which I've done every time so far. um you feel refreshed psychologically and existentially which is great because you know if you have a big problem you're like oh my god you know my had a

28:27fight with my ex-wife or whatever it might be and then you meditate and you clear the mind and you realize we are all one we are all connected the cosmic consciousness flows on within you and without you as George Harrison said it doesn't matter and you can in deal with the horrible horrible thing that's happening with at least a sense of the passing all things must pass as George Harrison also said that you can then get you'll get past it you wade through the to reach the shore the other side and it it just helps sometimes you know

29:07I can't remember what the question was

29:10I was on the journey with you so

29:12oh well wonderful do you do TM I I well I practice my own form of meditation. Yeah.

29:19Okay. Okay. It's it's so important I think especially when you you know you you've come out of the highly optimistic phase of your life and dealt with lots of real life problems which everybody does right

29:34whether it's you know terrible illness or whether it's your parents bought you the wrong collar pony you know it's like it's existential crisis of different types in everybody's life and the only way to deal with it is to find some sort of reflection and self-reflection to just get through it. And TM is for me that and for you is your form of meditation. So good.

29:57Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's I I I I it's so wonderful hearing other people's um practices. Um some people find practice in in movement. So it's like their meditation is through movement whether it's running or dancing or just whatever it is like they find the meditation in motion. Sure. Um yeah, but it's always um so interesting to hear about the different practices that you know bring you to I guess um maybe peace, a sense of peace and groundedness would be the word I' I' I'd use. Also, we have the great benefit as songwriters of of people who can put down our we are our own psychoanalysts. Sometimes we can

30:40extrapolate from our creative process where to go next because you know you start writing a song I start writing I had a horrible experience which is probably the worst of my life where I massively I've had two of these actually massively betrayed by you know good friends or supposedly good friends and writing a song about that specific experience helped me through it because it made me real firstly it's it's asserbic nasty song which is I'm not that sort of person but the asserbic nasty song enabled me to kind of come to terms with it. It's like a cathosis of some sort and that and that's another

31:22answer to the question that was asked earlier. It's like it's through cath catharsis. And if I'm on a plane and I'm going through an angry moment and a spike, I will write down what exactly encapsulates that and what I want to say to that person without having to say it to them. And I'm quite good with language as I say, so I can say something really specific but not lielous. Well, I I I really love that, you know, music does have a way of um transforming um and alchemizing, you know, the even the darkest um experiences that we have and also that it can then translate into

32:07like you were mentioning earlier like ways that it can help other people um like people can connect to that message, you know, because I think all of us experience different things um in different junctures And then, you know, I think as artists, we can then translate it into something hopefully that can transmorph ourselves and thus pass it on, you know, pass the torch on.

32:31Yeah. And and you know, to that as it pertains to that, the the the song I'm referring to, the angry song, what I did when I was marketing it, and let's make no bones about it. I was marketing the song. I want people to listen to it. I made a a sigil of forgiveness and um cleansing, right? which is a I don't know you probably of course you do what a sigil a sigil is just for people who might be watching who don't know it's it's a it's a a sign it's like a a drawn sign that contains meaning within it for you um and it's it's a magical practice

33:07in the kind of crowley crowley-esque style where you contain your wish to the universe in this thing and it focuses your thought and my wish in in the sigil was to cleanse myself of the anger. And what it was was I put the sigil out to a lot of my followers and fans and said, "Look, if you have somebody that hurt you and really betrayed you and makes you feel terrible every day, give me a video of you burning this sigil." And I sent copies of the sigil that to everybody and I sent them, you know, free downloads, whatever it was. And I got lots of video back of people burning

33:43this sigil and saying, "I cleanse." And I had a spell cleanse my heart of animosity towards X and left it blank for their person and you know so mo it be whatever that language was I don't remember and I got all this video back of people in their element dressed up to the nines or just in in their backyard or whatever burning the sigil saying the spell and that was the video for the

34:08and it was firstly it was fabulous because it gave me a sense of closure on that situation and Secondly, there was a video of all these people who really appreciated that. So, it was an interesting experiment in how to reach people and I want love and harmony and peace for everybody, right? Because if somebody if somebody who hates me has love and harmony and peace in their life, then they won't bother me because they can't be bothered, right? So, even my worst enemies want peace and harmony and and all that stuff. But I also need that peace. And even if they don't hate me, I if I still feel hatred for them,

34:48it's going to eat me up. It's whole Buddhist concept, right? So even that song, which is the angriest, nastiest, most acid song I've ever written, is designed to cleanse and create peace. That's my excuse anyway.

35:07It sounds so powerful though, and I love that you set that intention. Um, and it sounds like it really did um find its way home in a way, you know.

35:16Yeah. And and people really appreciated it because of course they're getting involved and and they appreciate that that's what I'm trying to do because otherwise it just sounds like an angry song to be honest. I don't want to diminish it. It's one It's a good one, but it's I don't want I don't want it to be seen in in the fullness of time as being like a you know.

35:38Yes. I well I love I mean sometimes um you know you can have such big emotions um and you you were mentioning your psychology background um but you can have such big emotions and not know where to put them and I think that it it's it's so amazing when you encounter a song um you know by an artist and you're like oh you know I'm so glad this artist is expressing something that I just couldn't didn't put my finger on and it helps to have a place to put that you know

36:13absolutely you know Morrisy for all his sins recently Morrisy was that guy I mean he was probably the most effective resonant lyricist I mean I don't know whether you like the Smiths and Morrisy but I would listen to his lyric and it was so like I am the sun in the air of a shyness that is criminally I mean he's Oscar Wild in the way he writes and then he says I deserve to be I'm I need to be loved just like anybody else's.

36:41Yeah. And I go to a club and I stand on my own. I go home and I alone and I want to die or whatever. It's like, wow, that guy speaks directly to me. Like there is there's none of this like optimism. There's none of this, you know, it is just literally him saying I'm so lonely at this moment. And everybody feels that even the person with most friends in the world, you know. So, I kind of understand the psychology of that. And, you know, it's I can't remember what the term for it is, but when you write songs that that speak to a need like like that where you

37:17want to connect because everything I write is to connect with people, everything. Even though it's in my terms, which is kind of arrogant, I just want to connect. That's all that I want to do because I love people. Mhm.

37:32Not all people then, but most people. I'd like to connect with the people I don't like the most so I can tell them to stop being mean.

37:42That's fair,

37:46Yeah. No, I mean and I think also like when you are expressing things that can be darker, um it's it's I I recently heard interview with Rick Rubin where he was talking about how you know some of the most powerful music I think is like it's like out of a journal. Um, and it's having the courage to just really express exactly what you're feeling, whether or not you're going to be judged for it, however people look at it, but to just really dig into just the raw truth of of where you are.

38:17Oh, like like John Lennon's first solo record. Like that record is probably one of my favorite records. And you know, he had the raw honesty to just confront so many difficult topics. I mean, well, the two the first two of his solo records are are equal to anything the Beatles did in my in my head because he was just addressing horrible horrible truths about himself and the way he felt about Paul and all that sort of stuff that is unvarnished true feeling and you can feel every moment. Now, that's the one thing I would say about Bowie and I love Bowie and it's not a criticism at all, but

38:55Bowie was an artificial character developer. So a lot of his music was one level disconnected from his true emotional core. In some ways it's difficult to hear what he's driving at when it's so arty. I mean there's letter to Hermione was I mean I do you know his catalog well

39:16not that well. I know some I know some of it because of the albums that I've I've been a part of. Um Right.

39:22Um but I I don't know Letter to Hermione. Well, let letter Letter Termine is one one of his songs from the very first breakthrough album, Space Odyssey. It wasn't a breakthrough album, but it's a folk song and it's the the only one in his whole cannon which I feel is unvarnishedly honest. It's like it's about his girlfriend that left him and and it's so sweet.

39:48I mean, sweetness and Bowie don't really go hand in hand generally, but that one does. And it's and it's significant because of that I think and and I and I I try although there are character there are snippets of characters in my writing it's very rare. I've definitely got more of the boat. I've got more of the John Lennon approach to this lyrically and musically, but I got more of the music musical influence from Bowie, I think. And because and and John Lennon is the greatest Bowie, John Lennon, Kate Bush, I mean, they're the top three of ever songwriters, right? But Bow's genius was musical and intellectual. John's genius

40:34was visceral and personal and Kate's just beyond everything. She's she hers is alien. She's the real alien in the

40:44I could definitely see that. Yes. In her own universe for sure,

40:49but equal to them both, I think.

40:53Um, we have a question from um, and I'm so sorry if I'm mispronouncing this. I think it's Danolic.

41:00Danic. Yes, Den.

41:02Um, Dan Schulik, um, you've produced work for other artists. Have you been, um, influenced significantly by any of their work?

41:12I've, uh, I've worked a lot with David Jay, which is, um, he played bass for Bow House and Love Rockets, and obviously it's hard to say whether I was influenced by David after working with him, or whether it was just Bow House that influenced me in the past. But to be fair, not really. I work with Darwin, who I love dearly, very good friend, and also is work is in the Night Crickets with David Jay, uh, which is another tie-in back. And Darwin has influenced me, I I think, and and I mean not just musically, but as a human. Darwin's you have you ever interviewed Darwin?

41:51You must.

41:51I don't know.

41:52He's magnificent. He's a really great artist and a wonderful guy. very smart. Um, so maybe I mean I've I've done remixes uh for Beauty and Chaos and I've worked with them a lot and I've asked uh Michael Saravalo to play guitar on my new album. He's he's on one song of my new album. So in that sense, yes. And I love Michael. I love you know MGT also when he worked with me on um a couple of songs that we've done together. Is it an influence? Exactly. No, but I would incorporate something of what he brought to my music back in

42:33if that makes sense. Because, you know, he taught me that sometimes it's just good to play goth rock guitar. And he's way beyond that. I'm not, you know, putting him in a box in any sense because he played some really lush textural stuff on my stuff, too, but his style of playing is is powerful. And a lot of my stuff isn't powerful. The songwriting is powerful, I would argue, but not the sound. So sometimes now I will reference what MGT did with me to make my song sound a bit more, you know, so maybe Dan, maybe. Yeah. I I heard it. I heard uh it was

43:17it's so interesting when you have like different people and they have a certain sound and a certain feeling um you know to bring it in. Um I was curious if you were brewing up um any new original music. Um

43:30yeah. Oh yeah. There's an album in the can. Um I'm currently as I say Brian Brian recorded drums on a couple of things. Um, so we've got those songs that Brian and and Michael played on done and a lot of the other stuff is it's it's so okay. So there's a greatest hits album coming out. Basically, we're printing uh we're getting the artwork together at the moment. And this is a remix album that my my record label um head who is a musician himself called David Chapfield. He remixed about 12 of my songs and he's done sort of radio mixes of all of them because he delved

44:11deep into my catalog and just chose all the all the songs that he really loved and said, "Can I do remixes?" And I was like, "Absolutely, why not?" You know, cuz I made the finished product and it's done and it's out and it's great and I love it. So, yes, please do what you can. So, I've given him one song which is a new original which nobody's heard and sounds great coming out next week. Um, and so we're going to do a big marketing campaign on that. We've got we've got liner notes, lots of artwork. we are, you know, putting together packages. We're going to do this is

44:49going to be the proper marketing push of my whole career to be honest. And then I also have a whole album of new material. It's I'm choosing from about 17 songs to whittle it down to maybe 10 11. And there it's it's great. It's one of the albums of my life, but it's not as commercial as Elysium, if that makes sense. Because Elysium is a quite commercial record. It has maybe five singles on it, which ANR ears would say these are singles. This one has two singles, but the rest of the album is songwritery based. I'd describe it as a cross between Hunky Dory and Grace by

45:28Jeff Buckley. Not Jeff Buckley's great vocal, of course, but um it it's got that feel to it. So, it's more indie rock than the rest. A lot of my stuff has been quite electronic, but there's no synths at all on this new record. It's all guitars and fretless bass.

45:49Wow. Very cool. I love that. It's like a I mean, I love your synth work as well, but um that's so cool that you're actually going to be exploring those different textures.

45:58I mean, I've done for throughout my career, I've done mainly singer songwriter based stuff. It's only been electronic since the last 10 12 years. And and that's only through just I bought a bunch of synths. I mean I had at one point I had 16 synths and it's really fun playing with sounds but I'm predominantly a songwriter honestly and you know the songs take center stage when you do that sonically doesn't have any so I I kind of and this also pertains to the question that you were asked earlier. I have gone back to the idea of writing a song from the song up. Having the song

46:41concept done maybe mainly on acoustic guitar is how I write or piano. And so I will write a full song that gives you a test as to whether the song is strong enough because if the synth line I mean I don't know whether you've heard the new Ladyron album rightron are the geniuses of this conceptually they have an art school mentality for concept. So the the the lyric will generally be quite simple, but it'll be cool. And then sonically it's a world. But I get the feeling that if you took a Lady Tron album and played it on an acoustic guitar, it wouldn't work as

47:22well as it does with all the sonic development. And that's what they do. And I love them and they're fantastic. And don't get me wrong, I'm not in any sense denigrating that. But I am proud to say that a lot of my songs are acoustic. If you bust the songs, you can bust them with an acoustic guitar. You can play them on the piano and they will iterate because they have structure and they have form and they have a middle eight and they have, you know, all all that sort of stuff. It isn't important to anybody that stuff anymore, but it's important to me that I go back to that

47:59to prove I can still do it, to be honest. I mean, having lived in that 12 year synth world, you know, so

48:07Yeah. No, absolutely. I I I love I I saw that you had played some acoustic shows. Um, and I love that. Um, it's like it goes to your roots. I think that's what I love about acoustic music in general is that you can really hear the song.

48:22Um, yeah. And and it live or dies on your I mean obviously a little bit to do with your skill and whether you can play because I've spent you know 10 years feeling a bit karaoke and I you know I've been in a band that it never gave me the chance to really play the instrument. It was sort of a facade in some ways. So now I'm sort of thinking to myself well I have to develop my instrument because it's 10 years of not practicing or playing proper and I have in the studio. So, I'm I'm over egging this particular pudding, but I like the

48:57idea that I can get up there and I can develop my playing and my artistry and my musicianship as well as, you know, being able to create soundsscapes and and you know, and people really respect and like that. I mean, I've been doing these, as you said, acoustic Bowie shows where I sometimes play original songs, too, and it's some of the most exciting songs. Sorry. Songs. Yes. Because it's Bowie. But some of the most exciting shows I've ever done because the people are right

49:29If you're doing acoustic show, unless you're Ed Sheeran, it tends to be smaller venues. And this particular place I play is in South Pasadena. It's a Italian restaurant. So people are eating magnificent Italian food, drinking magnificent Italian wine, and they are singing along to every word of the Bowie that I'm playing. And I do requests and I'll play for three hours. Like I I know maybe you know hund Nove got a list of all the Bowie songs I've done in the past. It's probably a hundred strong, you know.

50:00Wow, that's amazing. That is really

50:05And I you know Bowie used to do that. That was he was sat on the floor with a 12 string guitar and at the beginning of his career and and you know I if I couldn't do that I would feel embarrassed to get up and strut my stuff and then not know how to do the songs. It's like it's part of the immersion to a degree. It's like you know and he's he was a very fasile 12 string and piano player. So to again pertaining to that, the reason that I've played I mean I've played 34 instruments on on records. So you know from sitar to clarinet to flute to

50:44guitar and all that stuff. The reason I did that was Prince because I read that Prince had done that. So I was like I'm going to do that too. And I'm not pretending I played well on all those instruments because I didn't. But I think it's important to when you have a mentor figure, whether you know that mentor or or whether you've just been respectful of the mentor, I think it's good to find out what you like about them and try to emulate that

51:09because you're always going to fall short. Like I think London Suede, one of my favorite favorite bands, and this again is not diminishing at all. I love them. They are when they started were trying a little bit to be like Diamond Dogs era David Bowie and they failed miserably but in doing the failure managed to create something magnificent in its own right and became one of the greatest bands that ever was but the kernel of it was let's be a bit like I can't complain because we've got Bowie already and now we have Suede, you know. Yeah, it's I mean I feel like um well

51:50Bowie has such a large body of work and I mean you do too.

51:55Sure. It's been

51:56and growing and growing. It continues to

52:00400 or so songs I've been involved with on Spotify.

52:03It's been

52:04That's incredible. I mean, I lot a lot of this stuff is just remixes that I've because when I do a remix, I'll get a vocal stem and I'll ignore the rest of the track and I'll just build this remix around the vocal stem because that's more fun for me. Just imag the the song the the vocal, hear what key it's in, trying to figure out what I would put to the chord, and then write a whole new track to accommodate the thing. And people I send them back a remix and they just go like, "What? What is this? This is different tempo, different time signature, you know, but

52:38they listen to it and they generally like it. So, I'm I'm okay doing that, you know.

52:42I love that creative approach.

52:45It's fun. Incidentally, send me one of yours. I'd love to do a remix.

52:49Oh my gosh, that would be amazing.

52:52BPM and V vocal only. that would be amazing. Yes. Um Oh. Um, is Sidro um I I hope I am saying your name right. Um, thank you all so much for for joining us. Um, wanted to ask um, what made you choose the name Singularity? I like it.

53:14Uh, so when I was deciding what to call the band because I I had a solo record which was under my name, right? So I then I put a band together and then I recorded the whole record on my own, but I had a live band. So I thought there must be a a you know band name. And I was reading Ray Kersfile's The Singularity is Near book. And then I heard from and then I read brief history of time which is Stephen Hawkings book about black holes and they reference singularity in that and I was like this is a sign from the universe. This is the

53:46singularity and it references you know the for um Kurszvile it was the point where science um growth and understanding is so exponential that nobody can quite see what's going to happen and that applies to AI as much as anything else. So that's the sing the technical singularity is where we do not understand how technology has grown so quickly and human understanding doesn't have any idea how to get his head around it. The singularity is also according to Steven Hawin the edge of a black hole where all time and space and understanding of science collapses. So it's it's a duality with the word singularity. So I I love words and

54:30playing with, you know, I concepts and meanings. So that's why.

54:36Yeah, absolutely. I I I do too. I love the play on words for sure.

54:42And I think it's interesting that your music um does have like different um opposites that you play with the the the electronics, but the acoustic and you know, the dark and light themes. So it

54:55that first album the 404 not found album that was this the name the singularity did exactly that's exactly why I wanted an acoustic song but with everything electronic around it singularity just the meeting of so many different genres and things so it was it was a factor in that album and then it just grew from that because that was when I started playing with synths and realized you can do something really special with that. So, and and I and I'm not limited um sonically by anything as well, which is to a degree that's the same as, you know, a black hole. It's like you can

55:32get a bizookie on this song and pair it with an 808. It's fine. That's the musical singularity, right?

55:42Well, do you when you play live, um do you have like particular ways that you like to translate it live? Um, like

55:53I do I mean I' I've only played one full band show for a long time. I opened at the Wilton for um Depes Mode cover band and uh Stubbing Westwood and Julian K. And what I did was I had a guitar player, I had a a drummer, live drummer, I had a uh the bass was on the track, I had a backing vocalist, and I had a guy playing synths and and percussion. So that that was the one iteration where I've had a full band, but often I've just played on my own or myself with the drummer. I do want to put a full band

56:31together, but to be honest, because of the nature of it and because I have strings and I have trumpets and all that sort of stuff, it's going to be hard to get a full band just covering the thing from fresh. So, it's probably going to involve tracks and I I I would prefer to be very very wealthy and playing the Hollywood Bowl and then I'll get the USC marching band behind me.

56:54We're putting that to the universe.

56:55Yeah, let's let's do that. Thank you, T.

56:58Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. It's always interesting to me because um the way people translate their music live. It's, you know, I've I I saw Buork uh do a show where all of her both her computers uh like they crashed. Um and in her adorable accent, she says, "Our computer is ill now, so I will sing ballads." And um she did everything acoustically, which was magical. It was so magical.

57:25Well, that that's like Julian Coke. Julian Cop did a series of shows and it's not that like Julian Cop, but he would open his own show. He'd do an hour of acoustic songs and then his whole the band would come out and he'd do another two hours of full band shows and I'm like I want to be there, you know, like Prince three-hour shows and the and it's the huge band and they're the best thing you've ever seen in your life. Like every print show was magnificent because it they were so rehearsed and it was so perfect and they could turn on a dime, jam out the moments. He'd just go like

58:00this and they'd jam, right? And then he'd do a splits and he'd go and play basketball while they're jamming this. I I want that. But as you know, it's expensive. And so you need people who actually care who would come to the You need thousands of people that would come to the show. And you know, you need to pay. I will not put a band together and not pay them properly. I mean, that's the other thing. It's like I want I respect The last show I did was Friday night at No, Friday Night. Yeah. At the Three Clubs and it was a Bowie show. I

58:33had Lou Reed's guitar player on my left. I had Brian F's guitar player on my right. I had Dweezel Zapper's keyboard player. I had a a bass player who I played with for 15 years. I had a drummer who plays in Britain's finest which is one of the best Beatles tributes. Those guys are excellent. I cannot underpay them because they turn up do one rehearsal and they are Like I I have to have earned that,

59:00you know, to afford those players and I want those players because they're brilliant. So, you know, to and you know, the Verve is one of my favorite bands and Suede one of my favorite bands. They were buddies jamming at school and they played together for five years before they even found their feet. I That isn't going to happen with me. I haven't got five years to try and find a band and be buddies at school and jam it. I mean, I'd need top flight session players. I mean, I've worked with people who who can play the parts, but they can't play the the range of parts

59:32generally because I play from funk to frip on the record. And I need somebody who can do that. And it's and I can't sing and play that at the same time. So it it's there are people out there but they they are really really good so they deserve to be paid well. And that's that's the reality of it. I mean you know I I've been away touring for 10 years. I haven't got that tight-knit group of friends who are really excited to play with me. I have a couple and that's fine and we're developing it. So we are playing Barcinist in October for example. playing the ladies run after

1:00:07show next end of this month. No, end of next month. So there there is a couple of shows on the horizon. So I've got to get my together.

1:00:16I'm excited for this. I'm really excited for this. I definitely would love to

1:00:21Oh, for sure. I'll I'll invite you. June the 11th as well, I have a believe it or not, I have an art show. So one of my good friends is Claudia Laneir, who is um Do you know the song Lady Grinning Soul by David Bowie? M I don't

1:00:36really. It's the closer of Aladd Insane. It's one of the most beautiful songs ever. She was the inspiration for it and then she was went on to be the inspiration for Brown Sugar by the Rolling Stones. She was the inspiration for these two artists and she used to be an IAT. Anyway, she's my good friend and she sang at the um Concert for Bangladesh with George Harrison. Like she's a legend, proper legend. But anyway, she's a huge fan and she's very supportive of of my music and she's set up a an art show for me. So, I'm going to be exhibiting, you know, artwork from

1:01:10my albums and pictures of me and all this sort of stuff, which feels really strange because, you know, nobody knows who I am. So, I'm going to perform at that. So, that's June 11th. That's I think the next show.

1:01:22Very cool. That's so cool. And I love that you're um incorporating different mediums. So, it's not just the music, but also including like the visual um storytelling behind it as well.

1:01:35Oh, yeah. I use I use um projections for all the shows because if you're going to use tracks, you have to use projections because they'll sync track, right? I mean, do you guys use projections now?

1:01:47Um no, but we have um we have a light show that our drummer program.

1:01:51Wonderful. Wonderful. That's that's my next step. I want a light show and projections and and there's a guy Trevor Song who's really good in in town. He does the magic wands at the moment and

1:02:00Oh, very cool.

1:02:01I've seen his show with I've actually never seen magic wands, but I've seen what the YouTube he sent me of of of the Have you seen Magic Ones?

1:02:10I haven't.

1:02:11No, they're supposed to be really good. But, um, his light show is great. He's really knows what he's doing and he's I guess it's all MIDI controlled. Mhm. Yeah, that's what Steve, our drummer, does. So, yeah. Um Oh, we have a question um from Phoenix. Sir Julian, have you ever had a time where you had the words to write in your head and would lose them before you can get them out? Um, so far I'm just a little published poet, but have higher hopes.

1:02:39Yeah, funnily enough, I mean, it happens all the time, but now we have the notes app on our phone, right? So now it tends to think what used to happen to me a lot this and and I mean a lot like you know for hours at a time for nights at a time I would write a full finished song with lyrics and everything in my head while I was sleeping and I would wake up write the song down go back to sleep and then my subconscious because it's a tricky trained my dream to dream that I woke up and wrote it down and then went back to sleep and then I

1:03:16wake up in the morning, I'd like that was a great song. Let's see what it and then my notebook would be blank and I'd be like pesky subconscious, you know, happened to me several times and I it was frustrating. Yes, all all the time. I used to, but the notes app on your phone is your friend because you can transcribe from voice notes and you know you come up with a crazy concept, you just go crazy concept for a song blah blah blah blah blah or poem or whatever it might be and you can do that on your if you have a iPhone. I'm making too

1:03:47many assumptions.

1:03:50Yes, I love I love voice notes and the notes app both. It's so vital, I think.

1:03:57Yeah. Yeah, especially if your muse is mischievous and likes to like whisper things in the middle of the night or when you're driving,

1:04:05right? I I know that I've had some scunt looks from girlfriends or wives at some point where I've, you know, got up in the middle of the night and gone into the bathroom and just picked out a I do it quietly, but you know, I'll sing a little bit of the song into my phone and and they'll be they'll hear it. They're like, "What's going on? Who are you texting at this time of night?" You know, I promise you nobody. It's my news. She's texting me via my subconscious, you know.

1:04:33I'm just having a conversation with my subconscious. Nothing to see here.

1:04:38Just a demigod in my dreams.

1:04:43Oh gosh. Um, oh yes. Uh, Cidro was uh talking about two-layer dreams. Um, definitely means some deep sleep.

1:04:55I love the um the the movie. I don't know if you've seen it. Uh Waking Life.

1:05:00Of course. Of course. Link Letter. Yeah.

1:05:03Alex Jones is in that. I I I rewatched it recently and I realized Alex Jones is in it and I was like, "Wow, I would not platform that guy in my movie."

1:05:16yeah. No, it's just I love the idea of like um like really it's like the play of subconscious that happens and the awareness if you're able to lucid dream

1:05:27I I can lucid dream and that's that's something I trained myself to do for I thought it was a good idea and it's wonderful with me as I tried astral projection for a while and that was wonderful too because I I think I'm always I don't value waking life over experience. I don't value one over the other. I think both of them are you have to integrate. It's like the shadow self, you know, you have to integrate all of the parts of yourself to experience fully what's going on. I mean, that's one of the things that led me to take mushrooms and things when I was younger

1:06:00was just the desire to really experience and and understand the mechanisms and the operating systems that we all labor under because life is phenomenally brilliant. It's such a great thing to be experiencing the world and and all the things in it and pain and pleasure and joy and misery like they're all an essential part of the experience and you cannot have the light without understanding what the dark is. So it it's all of those you have to you have to embrace all of them and if you do then you have a fully complete life you know in in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I think um it is

1:06:47um well we were talking about earlier how like I think writing songs is a way of bringing light to the shadow side that you might you yourself might not have been aware of.

1:06:58Oh I've I've never been I' I've not been a person who expresses anger well and I you know I'd have to question why that is because that's a strange situation. And I know that everybody has their angry moments and I've now discovered anger and I have very virilent hatred at times and that's something I find difficult to express. But putting it into a song gives me a nice contained maybe I'm neurode divergent. Who knows? That's what everybody is these days. So perhaps maybe I'm not. But but putting it into a song means that I can say, "Okay, well, do I do I want this hate?

1:07:39Do I want this poison? Or can I put it here? I put this moment here. I put this moment here. I put this moment over here as Kate Bush said. And it it's wonderful because you can truly it's cathosis, it's closure, it's all those things whether it be joy or or I I can't write songs about joy until the joy is no longer on me

1:08:03because that's you know I I it's it's difficult for me to articulate because I'm experiencing it. I can't really write that well in the depths of misery. I mean, most people, I think, uh robbed of all verve when they're miserable. And so, I can write about it once it's happened and I can sit, you have to sit in it. This is what the Buddhists say, sit in every moment. Sit in every state of mind and experience it fully because it will pass. But if you don't if you try not to experience it and push it off, you won't know what it is and what it's teaching you and what

1:08:43it's telling you and what your capacity is. And that I I mean it theoretically it's great and in practice it's Well, when you are in the thick of those moments, um I guess it's sort of like it it can be so difficult to to translate. Um you know, um and um I really do like the idea of like sitting with something. I think I I was reading something about a a yogi teaching about the idea of inviting your shadows to tea and and having a conversation with them, you

1:09:19rad charander or something like that. I

1:09:21I think it was. Yeah. Yeah. No, I I of of course, but I mean that's what you sit and you have tea with your demons and then you realize that they're great and they you know they're fun and they they help you they help you experience the the light because they are the antithesis of it and and I I fully believe that like I'm I shadow Yungian psychology and shadow self. I've experienc I've read a little bit about that and I've done all the what's your shadow archetype, you know, all those things, the the quizzes online. They're really fun. I mean, nonsense, of course, you can't boil it down that easily. But

1:09:57it it it's interesting because, you know, certainly with sexual kink and things like that. I mean I one of my ex-girlfriends was a dominatrix and she would talk to about um you know sexual kinks and that is a fascinating shadow world because people who have sexual kinks sometimes can focus their shadow in that department and when they find the outlet for it can make them a whole a much more whole person and and having a sexual kink is much more containable than having an emotional kink because emotional kink requires that you interact with somebody who understands and wants to provide it. Whereas a sexual you can pay somebody to

1:10:37do it, right? So being human is complicated.

1:10:46Absolutely. I know. We're such rainbowed creatures, I think.

1:10:53Yeah. Well, absolutely. And and there's and the darkness is not a color, but it's part of the experience, isn't it?

1:11:00Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I I I Oh, go ahead, please.

1:11:05Oh, I was just saying, you know, talking of rainbows, I have an 11-year-old little girl called Phoebe, and she is has also been my savior in so many of these times because when she is here with me, which is part part of the time I share custody with my ex-wife, she reminds me first firstly, this is the way I look. Even when she's being really annoying, she's sassy now. Like, she's 11. She is sassy. She's giving me all the she has her own opinion and and all that stuff. And I can be quite she can be quite frustrating. You know, she's adorable and lovely and a very easy

1:11:41child. Don't get me wrong, but of course there are always moments. And I sit and I look at her and I'll simmer a little bit. And then I'll think this moment at this age will never happen again.

1:11:54And I let it go. And it's and each time it teaches me compassion and patience. And I I'm grateful to her for her capacity to teach me that. Even though I know it's me teaching myself that lesson, but I need that challenge from somebody I cannot lash out at and I would never lash out at. So I can practice patience and compassion for the whole world. Right? So that when she was born, when her head emerged, I was the first human on the planet to see her head emerge, I realized, okay, my ego is irrelevant. Everything I've done, all my striving to be the rock star of the planet and be

1:12:37desired by all the women out there and all that stuff is completely irrelevant. This thing, this person now is my priority and the person that I will love until the day I die. And I love myself. I think I'm pretty cool, but I love her. If it was a train, if it was the train track dilemma and she was on one rain and it was 10 of me on the other, it would be 10 of me in a second. There wouldn't be a consideration, you know. So, Phoebe is the light of my life. That's again, I'm sorry I get off track quite easily. Tangents are very welcome always,

1:13:17especially lovely ones when you're discussing um you know the people that you truly love and that's really

1:13:25Yeah, she's she's magnificent. She's truly I'm very lucky.

1:13:29I I remember seeing an album actually named after her.

1:13:33Oh yeah, Phoebe. That's those are all the songs I wrote when she was sleeping on my lap.

1:13:40she was a b she was a baby. So I was just playing on my laptop and whilst because you can't I don't whether you have a cat or a dog or a baby or if you have any of those things and they fall asleep on you. That's probably if I have a maternal side that's probably the only time where I'm just like you can't move your arm even though it's fallen asleep. You don't want to disturb the the human or animal that's sitting on you because that's the most precious moment in the world. They trust. It's trust. It's joy, you know. So, I'm getting old.

1:14:16I am too. It's very beautiful. I was envisioning um that that very precious time um because you were talking about like this is the one moment in time and just like how incredibly beautiful it is that um you were translating music as you were experiencing that. Oh, it was it was quiet ambient music, so it would help her sleep and just, you know, it's it's drifty. It's quite good. I mean, I' I'd say it was one I did it one-handed mostly because she was she'd be lying here. I'd be doing it on the laptop and, you know, playing synths and just So, it it it's I I like it. It's a nice record.

1:14:57It's it it's a purely ambient. There's no songs on it, but it's it was

1:15:03Does she uh listen to it now or has she heard it?

1:15:06I don't think she's ever heard it to be honest. She is not really that interested in my musical exploits. She's very very proud of me when she comes to a show and she knows all my songs but off by heart because of course I'm mixing them and listening to them back on different speakers all the time. She knows all my songs, but she's much more into the Beatles and um I I sorry to say Taylor Swift, who is not my favorite, but she loves Taylor Swift. She loves um Sarah Maddock. I guess it's kid kids stuff. And Sarah Maddock's great. I love her. She's she's a funny sort of rapper

1:15:41who wraps kids songs, but really cool. They're they're very cool and very fun.

1:15:49I don't think I've heard any of her stuff, but that's awesome. It's for kids. I think it would be something you, you know, you'd have to have a kid. Do you have any kids?

1:15:58I don't.

1:15:59No. No. You'd have to have a kid to be forced to listen to it. But once you get into it, you know, there's songs like The Story of a Worm. And it's just it's really it's silly, but it's really well produced. And she's clearly wholeheartedly embraced this role that she has as being this like quirky rap thing, and it's it's really cool and wholesome. So, I like wholesome music.

1:16:23Yeah. Yeah. Well, you mentioned like that you um didn't really write music that was like in the joy because you're experiencing the joy. Um, and so it's really cool when you have other artists that can do that for you or they're you're like I am in the joy of like expressing for children and

1:16:45you know like Rafi and people like that it's like there is so much

1:16:49like absence of cynicism and I mean you know there in reality if you listen to you know music by adults there are very few songs or artists who can really express that kind of calm joy. And the one one of them is Kate Bush. I mean, if you listen to her album Ariel, which is just basically her chatting about a day in England, just sitting around doing nothing, talking to the birds, and then she imitates a whole bunch of bird song. She's really weird. However, this is one of the most joyful, like happy, wonderful feelings you get from listening to the record. It's just so calm.

1:17:35and and full there's there's there's this it's there's a twinge to everything Kate Bush does of melancholy which appeals to me as the sort of goth I I'm not a goth but it it's sort of it's got that goth twinge but what she does is she talks about it or sings about it sorry in this way so as you're also elevated and and it's like a gigantic warm hug from the mother universe listening to Kate Bush at her best. And some of the songs, I mean, they just no no artist can express loss or melancholy the same way Kate Bush does because she's so invested in

1:18:19it. Doesn't matter what the song is in terms of commerciality or or anything like that. Now, she's earned the right to just do whatever she wants. So when you listen to her music, it is rambling and it's insane, but it is so beautiful and so gorgeous and I love I love that. There's no artist No artist maybe Leonard Cohen te touches that sometimes but no other artist can really do that, you know.

1:18:46And I and I think

1:18:48I don't I don't want to be, you know, kind of weird about it, but I think it's because she's a woman.

1:18:52I think there isn't the same um sentiment. I don't think you're allowed to have the same approach as a man in music. It's like it doesn't sort of, and I'm not complaining being a man in music, don't get me wrong, in any sense, and that's not what I'm trying to convey. It's just that I haven't heard that many men who will deal with the same emotional tones. Robert Smith maybe a little bit,

1:19:16but Kate Bush is just one of a kind. stands outside of everything, you know, and and I'm

1:19:24I'd love to meet my friend was invited to see her play the last series of shows

1:19:29and I really wanted to go and I was just really bummed because I applied for tickets, couldn't get them because obviously they sold out in a microcond and I missed all the shows because I couldn't go and they were in in London so that was another problem. But um my friend said, "Oh yeah, I was I had VIP. I could have given you mine." And I was

1:19:53a silent scream in my head like, why didn't you tell me?

1:19:59it wasn't meant to be yet,

1:20:01right? Well, let's hope she does another series of shows. That would be nice. It seems unlikely, honestly, but we'll see.

1:20:11maybe she'll sing on one of my records one day. Oh, see this is where the the intersection will

1:20:18right? She's she's only had Prince and, you know,

1:20:24Well, well, the the the uh the reality is still young, so we shall see.

1:20:29Sure. Sure. I mean, I I've not written anything. I mean, I've I've worked with some I've worked with Mike Garson. I mean, not Mike is one of the greatest pianists in the history of ever. He played all over. He was with Bowie for a long time. 35 years or something he played with Bowie and he illuminated the Aladd Insane album and he's on my new

1:20:52No biggie. No biggie. And Carmine of course. Carmine Roas who played bass on Let's Dance and went on tour for that whole Glass Spider tour and the Serious Moonlight tour. He's on my record too. It's like this is amazing. I mean, you know, I David J. I mean, these are people I can't I shouldn't be able to reach because I'm not a star and I have never had a hit, but they like my music enough to offer their services. I mean, I'm honored. I'm so honored. But I'm also kind of smug is the wrong word, but it's like, okay, my music is good. Look, these guys think it is, you know. Come

1:21:31on, world. Listen. No, it's it's really incredible when you when you have these experiences that um it's like you're working with people that you've either been like, "Oh my gosh, I know who this person is and they have all these incredible bodies of work that they've done or just moments in time where you're like, "Wow, it's like a reflection of like I think I'm on the right path." Right.

1:21:56Oh, sure. It No, it totally feels like that. I mean, and so right now feels like that for me because the greatest hit record um which is as I say it's I might put greatest hits in quotations and I mean it it sounds great. It's actually going to get marketing. I I've never marketed anything really. I mean this is and it's my bad because you know I've had the money in the past to do it. I just don't know how to do it. So, I'm going to trust that a record label with their infrastructure, David Chapfield's Harmony Records, has the capacity to do it and and can help because, you know,

1:22:31honestly, the people I do reach with my music and I'm not pretending I don't have any fans because I do have people who appreciate it. Dan Schol for example has been very supportive and is one of those people. Um, I mean, clearly the quality is there and when they are fans, they are real fans. Like, they don't listen to one song and go, "This is a one hit wonder." They listen to the entire body of my work, which is incredibly flattering. I really feel wonderful because of that. It's it's, you know, and that's it's a blessing and I'm I accept it graciously and so there

1:23:05must be other people out there, too. It's just nobody's ever told them about the work. So, still got time. Oh, um, let's see. Um, Acidro says, "Have you ever played uh Moonlight Sonata around dogs and cats or any animal for that matter? Um, I was told classical music including Moonlight Sonata will make um the mind and body

1:23:31I've played Moonlight Sonata many times because um that was a song from a B-side by Depode. So, I learned to play it. I have never played it live but I will tell you cla deloon which moon and loon have a tiein together um by debusy is that is pho's sleepy song.

1:23:52anytime she I wanted her to go to sleep which if you have a baby you know what that means um I would go in the car put on moonlight sonata and she would be out. It's cavalian conditioning that you use to make kids go to sleep. And Moonlight Sonata is hers. And I play that. I've I've played it to her on the piano and she starts crying now because she's like, "I'm not sleepy, daddy." I'm sorry. She's 11. She doesn't cry now. She's just like, "Oh, Dad, stop bedtime." Mhm.

1:24:29Yeah, I've had the similar Moonlight Sonata is my all-time favorite classical piece and that's actually what got me into playing classical piano. Um because that was the song that

1:24:39Oh, I do. Yeah, that's my first

1:24:41What do you play? What What is your favorite thing? Aside from Moonlight Sonata, of course, is it Beethoven?

1:24:46Beethoven is my all-time favorite to play and Mozart's my favorite to sing.

1:24:51Right. Right. Right. Right. Oh, I mean they're good classics, aren't they? I It was always Dusi for me because Dusi is

1:24:58he he's kind of the textural guy. He's he's the cure of of or the cockto twins of of classical music to me. And you know, so I I played a lot of his work when I was learning classical piano. I mean, now I'm I peck at the keys as much. I can I can play fine, but it's not how I was. I mean, you know, it's been a long time since I've practiced classical piano. Do you still practice?

1:25:24I do. I do. Yeah.

1:25:26Every day.

1:25:27Every day.

1:25:28Three hours a day.

1:25:29Not three hours, but um it's it's it is like a form of meditation for me. There's something about like when I run my songs and my exercises and scales, like it actually like really makes me feel grounded. So, that's like a form of meditation for me.

1:25:43I envy you. I I really should. I really should. And thank you for inspiring me to do so because I I was for a while I picked up Arabesque the Arabesque song by Dusi and Alaturka Rondo Alaturka by Moza and I was practicing them and I was and Moonlight Sonata and I was getting better and I was getting back to the fluidity and the facility in the fingers because you know you lose that if you don't practice you they start it starts feeling not like muscle memory it starts feeling like a challenge and I was getting there and this is last year and then I just all sorts of things were

1:26:20happening and I was still on tour and you know it just stops you doing it and then I got a new keyboard and my keyboard started not working so I was like I don't and that that's a good excuse for me not to do it and that's there's no excuse like if that's your instrument if that's what you do for a living you should do what you're doing you know

1:26:41yeah it's um because I you know I I play keyboards for other people and I sing on different things and sometimes I'll be more vocally active, sometimes I'll be more keyboard active, but I try to make that a daily practice like obviously I can't do that on tour. Um.

1:26:57Right. Right.

1:26:58You know, but I do

1:26:59Are you Are you playing piano live on on stage with with others?

1:27:03Um uh there's one song that I do keyboards with, but most of the time actually um Scott and Gordon, they'll play bass and guitar and synth at the same time. I see.

1:27:14Um, and then we also have a keyboard player as well. So, we have many synths on stage

1:27:18because I don't remember seeing you play play piano. That's that's why I was surprised. I didn't know Alice Tash. But that that's good. I'm I I mean I I really I really feel like I've got the leisure time now. I'm not touring so much to do that and just get better because I I used to I used to find meditative reasoning in it. But also I have my daughter around so she doesn't want to hear me practice. I have you ever seen Yuja Wang play?

1:27:50she she's So there's two pianists I've seen recently last 10 years. Lang Lang who is the best pianist on the face of the planet currently and Yuja Wang who is the best female planet pianist on the on the planet at the moment and she is absolutely magnificent. if you ever get the chance. Yuga Wang.

1:28:11Oh, I will definitely check that out. Yeah, thank you for that.

1:28:17You're welcome.

1:28:18Yeah, I'm I'm seeing um Oh, is also a a fellow um keyboardist u pianist as well. That's awesome. It's always wonderful to meet fellow musicians who find the joy.

1:28:34Sure. Sure. I mean, piano is a piano is an art, isn't it? It's different. It's different than playing a guitar. It's like there's a I think there's a lot more feel to a piano than than a guitar because there's a lot more levels of Do you have a piano at home or is it a

1:28:49I have both. I have both. Yeah, I I write on I write on both. Um I I tend to gravitate towards the piano. I've written some stuff on guitar, but it really does um channel a different vibe.

1:29:00Oh, sure. Sure. It's it's the difference between Kate Bush and Bruce Springsteen. Like Bruce is a guitar. Kate's a piano.

1:29:11And I absolutely

1:29:13I won't put Elton John in the mix because I don't really like him. I I some songs but some songs but it's just very it's it's not I don't know. I I should Everybody who likes the things I like likes Elton John and I'm just like it's fine. Yeah. No, it's I and I think like you mentioned something earlier. Um I think it really doesn't matter what the instrument is. It's just the fact that it's it's an expression like whatever medium that you choose. Um

1:29:43yeah, I mean this this is true. I mean I don't want to diminish the the effect of the guitar. It's just it I think it's a I don't want to use this term again. It's like I think it's I think the guitar is a male instrument and the piano is a female instrument. hate to be, you know, don't there is no duality in in that. I just think that they have different functions um psychologically. That's for me they do. Okay, I'm just going to narrow that. For me, they have different functions.

1:30:13Yeah, absolutely. Like I I feel like um even just the physicality where it's like the way that you produce the music versus, you know, from different instruments. Yeah, absolutely.

1:30:24Feels like an ocean. Piano. You have an ocean in front of you with a guitar. You have a

1:30:30I don't want to say what came to mind

1:30:35But it isn't an ocean.

1:30:37Yes, it's not an ocean.

1:30:42Well, um I know that you have uh you you mentioned your art show that's coming up. Um do you have any other um shows with your other projects that you're going to be doing?

1:30:53So, okay. Okay, I'll have to look at my calendar. Actually, I have I actually playing with my daughter's school band on Friday this week. You're not nobody's welcome to come. And then um then I'm playing at the Tiki Bar in the OC on the 14th which is Thursday um next week which is a Bowie show. It's the whole of Station Station in full. That's the one we just did at three clubs and plus other hits it's playing with Yas Raasia which is a Yazu and Raia Erasia sorry Yaz Yas she's called in this yeah Yas and Erasia tribute and then on Saturday the 16th we're in Feritton 80s bar.

1:31:33Woohoo. Then the 29th of this month we're in the Monty Bar. Um the Lady Lady Tron after show party. Um that's my original music. Um, and then June the 6th, we're in Lancaster, big shops with my Bowie band. Then the art gallery opening show is June the 11th. And then I'll stop there because that's an overwhelming amount of information for anybody listening. But I I I'll put a graphic together because um I haven't

1:32:04You have a lot coming up.

1:32:06Yeah, I mean I you know I just stopped touring with another band which was my principal income. So, I've just got to I I don't do anything else. I'm just a musician. So, it's and you know how hard that can be to survive on. I mean, you know, even these shows are not going to come close to being livable, but I'm building it up. And the and my Bowie band, which is is my principal source of income to be honest. Um I mean, we are we're really good and we're quite popular. We just need to start, you know, start the process. You know how it

1:32:41is. you have to book three months out

1:32:43and I started booking a couple of weeks ago. So even though there are shows in the pipeline, they are three months out, four months out, five months out. So and I I I mean I've been around a while, people have goodwill towards me as a as an artist in general. So I'm it'll be fine. Just it just takes a bit bit of

1:33:03Yeah. Yeah. Well, um are you the one that's doing all of the booking?

1:33:09So it's It's a lot.

1:33:11It's a lot of work.

1:33:13It is. It is. I do the booking myself. So, I feel you. Yeah.

1:33:16Yeah. Well, we can trade trade information because I need to, you know, have a wider scope. In fact, we should do some shows together. That'll be really fun.

1:33:24I would love it. I would love it.

1:33:26I mean, both Bowie and and originals. I mean, I could open with originals. It could be Alice and then it could be the Bowie band because we have a bit Obviously, the Bowie band brings in a built-in audience of Bowie fans. Luckily, because most of I mean the Bowie fans in LA have been coming to my shows for the last you know 10 15 years and they all watched my pandemic shows. I used to do um acoustic and Bowie live streams and so I had a lot of people like Dan Schol I believe found me through that and I would do every week I'd do a whole set of Bowie originals

1:34:03and people during the pandemic were starved of you know information and fun things to do. So they would watch me across the c across the country and and the world just watch me play my the Bowie covers that I was doing and it was the the response was heartfelt and overwhelming because people really really loved that I was doing it. So it was totally worth it for me because it was I was bored as well. I was in the pandemic, right? So it was wonderful to be able to do that and they were requests. That's why I've played a hundred of Bowie songs because people

1:34:36would request songs and I'd learn the song and I'd learn seven or eight songs a week for people to play them on the show. And so it was a it was a wonderful way of connecting with people and as I said I love connecting with people. It's it's a a joy. I'm not shy. I like I'm quite gregarious and uh Garyus as you probably figured out.

1:35:03Dan um Dan is also mentioning your live stream request shows. Um having seen your live stream request shows playing acoustic piano or guitar for the same songs. Um it's really interesting to see how the songs are the same but

1:35:17Thank you, Dan. I appreciate you very much. Dan Dan has come to see me play in Singularity shirts. Um Mo most times it's it's re it was really there was a dark time when he would turn up and and it would make the time a lot lighter. So thank you Dan. Really appreciate you.

1:35:37Yeah it's I mean gosh learning Bowie songs is not easy. I um I I had the chance to learn um Hunky Dory and Diamond Dogs um as a

1:35:48shows. You did the album shows. Is that the ones at the um King King? King King. Mhm. Yeah.

1:35:54I I auditioned for that and I didn't get the gig.

1:35:57Not piano vocals.

1:35:59Well, I I am so sorry because I think you're incredible.

1:36:03Oh, no, no, no. It's It was fine. It was It was the wrong fit at the time because I I was on tour, so it would have been a difficult thing for me to commit to it,

1:36:12but I would love to have done it. I did a Diamond Dog show of my own at Bourbon with with the band Fell to Earth, and that was

1:36:18Oh, wow.

1:36:19So good. Sweet thing. did. And you're a piano player, right? So, you're getting to do Mike Garson.

1:36:26That is He's There's some challenging stuff on that record.

1:36:31Oh, yes. Yeah.

1:36:32Oh, yes. Yeah.

1:36:33So, I'm impressed.

1:36:35It's It was very educational because um I to really learn I mean, you mentioned also your Depode cover band. I've I've played keys in a Depode cover band as well. And when you actually learn like the layers that go into a song, um cuz you know, I think when we listen to a song, we can attune our ears maybe to the vocals or to the guitar, like whatever it is, but when you're really peeling back the layers and learning the individual parts, it's like, wow, this is brilliant.

1:37:03Well, I mean, the thing is with Dep and Alan Wilder was a brilliant contrauntalist like he knew Counterpoint very well. electronic counterpoint which has taken you know obviously Bach Bach style um classical count people who don't know Counterpoint it's like Bach style interweaving lines little lines and um you know then you discover how how brilliant he was because he could take a song that was you know played very very rudimentary rudimentarily by Martin on acoustic or organ sound or whatever and visualize it as punctual notes. And that that's the genius that he had. He's like taking it into that that realm. And and I played Allan's

1:37:53parts in in the dep mode thing that I did. And um unfortunately everything was also on the track. So nothing that I did was really relevant and it felt a bit like karaoke to me. So it was draining my will to do it. But, you know, I could play I did play everything and I played along and I played all his parts and I developed it so it was exactly what he was playing because I'd watch video of him, but it was all irrelevant. So, if you if you can't take the parts off, you're just playing on the top of a track, which feels just disingenuous to me musically. So,

1:38:33um that's one of the reasons why I was fired because I complained about it. So, so you know I but but I respect the process because I've tried to do the same with some of my music because obviously I've learned a lot from that process of studying what he did and I mean I learned it ineffectually and I'm pleased with the results but his genius cannot be understated. He was the sonic architect of some of the greatest music of all time. And when they lost him, he they the band devolved into a much more prosaic rock band.

1:39:10And even though they get great producers to work with them, they don't have the taste and nuance that was brought by Alan Wilder. I mean, you know, Songs of Faith and Devotion was the last record which he was involved with and it's the high point of music. That is that's probably my northstar for what I would like to have as my one of my records. It is absolutely brilliant from start to finish and it's rock and roll and it's guitar and it's heavy, but it's also sumptuous and sexy and brutal. It's all of the things on one album. I mean, Violator is great and it has hits on it,

1:39:49but Songs of Faith and Devotion, the song Higher Love, it itself is their high point because it it has a complete and utter switch halfway through where it goes into a totally different key through a weird progression. It's like, and you know, they don't have a station to station or a paranoid android. Higher Love is that. And high at love is so sexy like like that that and we never well we played it when I was the Martin in the band for a while. I was a the sing the Martin had um a cancer thing so I had to cover Martin for a while. So I put extra

1:40:31songs in the set while he was away

1:40:33and higher love was one of them because everybody wanted it. Everybody in the band wanted it and I we loved playing

1:40:41He came back, took it out, whatever.

1:40:47Yeah. It's Gosh, I mean, I feel like it's it's amazing actually certain songs where you're like, "Oh, wow. I that's another really great one." And um I there's certain bands that I think can be attuned to having tribute bands for them because there's just such a body of work that's so good

1:41:06and so varied. I mean, you know,

1:41:09Bowie is very good example like Bowie is is you can you can and I was just discussing this today. It's like Bowie has a big gay following because the Ziggy character was gay or bisexual or whatever and he was very, you know, into the costumeuming and things. So that's very fashion forward. You've got the thin white duke who's this icy, you know, emotionally guy as we mentioned earlier. Then you've got the let's dance Bowie who So Bowie was all things to all people throughout his career. He was arty as hell because of, you know, one outside and blackar like whatever sort of music you like like he was funky like

1:41:47and soulful like young Americans. So there is one song by Bowie that you can play to anybody where they're going to go grudgingly. Oh, okay. I do like David Bowie. There are no artists like that. Maybe the maybe the Beatles, but there are no other artists that can do that. Kate Bush is really weird. So there are not very many songs by her except Running Up That Hill perhaps that everybody would like. It's fine, but she's one of the greatest. Prince was another one. He's I've I've under sold sold my the influence Prince had on me because I adore Prince. It's just he's not the songwriting northstar for me. He

1:42:23is the he is the he's the northstar. Like Prince did everything himself and he did it in such a way so it doesn't matter that it's just him. Nothing was lacking in quality. His bass playing was the best bass player in the world. His drumming, he was the best drummer in the world. his programming is best programmer, best synth player, best guitar player, best singer, best dancer. God, what's wrong with this guy? He's so brilliant in every way. Like, but that's also daunting. And his his high points stopped and he continued making music which with great musicians, but never made a record as good as when

1:43:02he made it all on his own.

1:43:04That's my opinion. As soon as he invited the best musicians in the world, it ironed out the creases and and the um shortcuts that he used to make his own music sound great because they were so great they could do anything at the drop of a hat. So, it became a bit more anodine. And that's that's a pity.

1:43:23Yeah. Yeah. I I was thinking about, you know, the artists that that we were talking about and some of them are no longer with us and gosh, it's like you you really never know when it's your time, right? And I don't imagine anybody like when they're setting out and creating like if they'll know like this is how many albums that I'm going to have written.

1:43:48yeah. I saw I saw an interview with Tony Vasconti where he implied and I could be reading this wrong that Bowie did not know that Blackar was going to be his last album and that he had plans past that Blackar um to make a war albums and he had that EP No Plan which was ready to go and it was supposed to pre-age some more stuff and you know although it was a beautifully as the press likes to spin it orchestrated final record and it's there's lots of clues that he's never going to be with us again. I it's very possible that that wasn't necessarily the case and you know

1:44:30I mean that that year started with Lemi if I remember Bowie went January the 9th 10th something like that Prince Leonard Muhammad Ali and George Michael went in

1:44:49Wow. like that that's the worst year for music deaths that there could ever be. I mean, you know, that that is five major heavyweights in their genre. Like Lemmy, if you don't if you don't like speed metal, you know Lemmy's name, right?

1:45:06If you don't like art rock, you know Bow's name. If you don't like funk, you know Prince's name. If you don't like mis miserable raincoat music, which is Lenn Len is one of my favorite. I'm just being facitious there, but you would know Leonard Cohen's name. And then George Michael, obviously everybody knows George Michael's name because he was so huge. Those are the heavyweights literally with Muhammad Ali's case in our world gone in one year. That was insane.

1:45:35Yeah, it's wild. Like gosh, this was pre- pandemic, too. I remember when all it was like backtoback where it's like, oh wow, this is Yeah.

1:45:45Yeah. And and you know there aren't many left. I mean you know hang on to Kate Bush and Tom York is all I'm saying. Paul McCartney.

1:45:54I mean you know I mean Paul Paul let's not make this a Deadpool. You know Paul's up there in age right? So it's not it would be expected Mick Jagger but you know those guys were not old enough to be to be lost then. This is 10 years ago. The heavy weights of music all

1:46:16Wow. I've taken this to a dark shadow self is creeping in.

1:46:21We're delving in the shadows now, folks.

1:46:24Exactly. Let's write a song about how happy they are in heaven. I I don't

1:46:29Yes. Yes. No, but I was, you know, I was thinking about how like important and vital it is just to um continue to to make your work while you are here because you really just we really never know, you know.

1:46:46Sure. and and I have I have so much I have I have vaults like Prince which I haven't quite finished the song and it's

1:46:54you know probably another hundred or so which unreleased at the moment and I will you know if there were I mean can't predict these things but I will give instructions if there's any chance I know to somebody I'll just say look I want to finish all this stuff and I want you to release it at least as a legacy item you know for the seven people who listen to my stuff like Dan I I have a feeling it's more than seven.

1:47:2170. All right, fair enough. I will.

1:47:26No, but I mean it's it's I think that's um well it's it's it's inspiring um that you've shared that um songwriting is a regular part of your life. Um and that's probably why you've been so prolific. It's just that it's a regular practice for you. Well, it's meditative like like you were saying, your meditation is playing the piano. My meditation is recording. And you know, when I when I can interweave that synth with that fretless baseline and put the drums on that have that right groove, that's a almost hyperfocused, you know, maybe it's ADD. I don't know. As I say, I don't know if I'm not

1:48:06neurode diversion or not, but it it's something that hyperfocuses and it calms and it gets rid of all the cortisol inside. This is my realm. I know what I'm doing. It's the only thing in my world that I know what I'm doing. I know that this will work with this because I've been, you know, what is it? 10,000 hours they say. I mean, I've done

1:48:27like 100,000 hours at this point. And I feel good. I mean like the Bowie the Station Station album I recorded. I mean it's like I every single song from the ground up was one take on every instrument. Not every instrument. That's not that's a bit of a lie. But most of it was one take because I know the song's Inside Out and I just wanted to put down something that was because I know that Station to Station was um an album that he made under the influence very much in Los Angeles with some brilliant musicians and I know they did it in one take and they recorded it.

1:49:04Harry Masslin, who produced the album, I'm just gonna humble brag now, told me that my golden years cover was the best he'd ever heard.

1:49:13And he produced the original station to Station. I'm like, because I I remember recording it in one take. Every part just doo know that part know that part and that was and then it was done. And I wanted not to correct anything. I just wanted it to come as it was because also it's not my music. So I although I I'm spending the time to mix it and make it sound good, I also don't want to like overplay my role in it. So it had to feel like a flow and and I am very pleased with it. Sounds great. And all the fans I've sent it to have said they

1:49:50enjoy it. So I feel like I did an okay job. So,

1:49:55well, um I I'm really excited to hear um what your future music um is going to sound like. I was curious if you remember the first song you ever wrote and what that was about.

1:50:08Oh, yeah. No, I do. It's It was called Rain. I lived in the north of England at the time. Um and it was a desperate attempt to sound like The Cure. I I had the album The Top and I heard I'd heard at the forest obviously because that was really popular. It was I I only No, I had The Top on cassette and I had Japanese whispers, my first CD I ever bought, which is great. It's a great little EP. Do you know The Cure?

1:50:38Of course you know The Cure, but do you know that album Japanese Whispers? It's the one with Love Cats, The Walk, um, Let's Go to Bed, and then it has all the B-sides. And the Bides were my favorite, but I was desperate. Oh, and I had Staring at the Sea or Standing on the Beach, whichever one was the CD of the greatest hits. And of course, The Forest is a brilliant song. So, I wrote about being at boarding school, not specifically at boarding school, but I wrote about being in a room, watching the rain, and thinking about death because this is what the cure would do,

1:51:09right? and it's terrible. So, I would never play it to anybody, but

1:51:17but I got better.

1:51:21So, you I I think you said around 400

1:51:25So, yes. Yes.

1:51:26When when when the anthology comes out, that one will not be on it.

1:51:34I think that's amazing, though. Um Yeah. My gosh, it's every song that's created is its own journey and marks own its own little chapter in history and a person's life and experience. So,

1:51:46I I've just put together pertaining to that. I've just put together a lyrics and autobiography book which I'm I've just put the lyrics in and I was like, "Oh, I'm going to sell this as part of the process, you know, with I put a nice hardback book together and pictures of me, the nice ones." And then I realized, okay, I'm going to write about the stories of each of the songs. And then I realized the songs are my diary.

1:52:13And if I know and read the song lyrics, because I have to look at the lyrics because otherwise I don't remember because these are songs I wrote over five years ago. Imagine that. And so I can remember and I can see the progression of the lyric writing because I was a terrible lyricist when I started because I was just, you know, trying to make things fit the music. And then you know I read the lyric but I remember where I was when I was writing that lyric and so I can remember who I was hanging out with what where where in London it was generally I started

1:52:44writing properly in London. No that's not true. I started writing in York but the good stuff started coming in London and I would write the stuff and I would encapsulate where I was. So the the whole book I've done the first two years of songwriting and I've written that story because it's a daunting task because I'm over 25 years old. That's a long time to be writing songs and it so that is going to be the autobiography. It's going to be lyrics threaded with the story of where I was not necessarily pertaining to the lyrics specifically but sometimes referencing them because that is the diary I kept

1:53:26and because we don't have you know we didn't have phone with geo tagging or locations I have to look at contemporary photographs and lyrics to really understand what was going on in my brain and so there are a few people who have expressed an interest and my mother and maybe my stepfather.

1:53:51Yeah. I mean, I think it sounds like it's going to be um really really special. I mean, it's I feel like most artists that I I've I've chatted with, like it's it's like you do remember where you are, you know, when you've written a song. um like you were saying like who you were with like the the surroundings and gosh there's certain artists when like certain songs that just hit you or you're like what were they doing at the time and I I find it fascinating you know like what was Kate Bush doing when she was creating Running Up the Hill and you know

1:54:25I've seen such a funny interview with her where she talks about it. She says she she says what's running up that hill about she says oh it's about a hill and he says you know have you ever run up a hill? She says oh no I don't even know what a hill is. don't ask me that question. I'm like, okay. And she's not a difficult woman. I mean, you watch any interview and she's very charming and wonderful, but that clearly, you know, she was having a bad day or what's going on, but yeah, I mean I I but I it is fascinating. I mean, and I love doing

1:54:52interviews like this, Tash, because I you probably I probably sent you the link of all the I've done so many of podcasts and things like that. And I love it because it makes me understand more about what my process is and all that stuff because I never talk. My daughter doesn't want to doesn't care or want to hear about my process of lyric writings. I mean, I help her write songs

1:55:12but you know, and I give her little instructions, but

1:55:15I don't get to talk about music with that many people in my life. I mean I it's changing now I'm back in LA because I'm meeting with more musicians and more musicians who are interested in playing with me for example and um so that's wonderful and I do get to talk about music but as far as talking about my own stuff unless I am given a platform in which to do it. It feels very conceited and sort of selfserving. So thank you for the opportunity. It's nice to

1:55:43Yes. Thank you for taking the time. It's, you know, gosh, it's I absolutely think it's a gift to to get to talk to artists um like yourself and especially like when you're like really um devoted like there's a devotion to your work. There's a devotion to your muse, to your creativity, and um you know, and and not just, you know, the way that you've um created your own songs, the but but the way that you have emulated other artists, the um you know, the way that you've um created with other artists as well. Um I think there's a devotion that has to happen. There's a dedication. Um,

1:56:24and you mentioned the the 100,000 hours that you've put into it, but it's in it's incredible to meet people um who like are have dedicated themselves with that focus and that love, you know.

1:56:36I I I mean I think you have to I think there are people who have to make music, right? I mean, I think you're one of them. And you know, David Jay is very inspiring. He's he know he had his hit last hit however many decades ago and he is still out there. He's going he's playing these shows with jazz shows. He's playing with these, you know, in really interesting people around the world and constantly playing and writing songs constantly and releasing stuff constantly because he is music. It's not just in him. It is he is it and he's poet. He's a poet as much as he's a

1:57:14musician and he wants to express he needs to express all of those things constantly. It's not how can I make money. It is because, you know, I've written some backing tracks for him where it's Love and Rockets revisited, right? Or The Cure sounding and and I've really wanted him to work on it because it's like, let's have, you know, let's let's give this to the goth clubs and watch them dance to your new single. He absolutely does not want to do that because he's got his muse and he is so dedicated to his muse that he's redefined other people's expectations of him or he's irre it's it's irrelevant

1:57:48what you expect of David. He's just going to do what he does and he doesn't pay any mind to how people what what people expect. He doesn't care. And I aspire to that. I mean, if I could just tour with the music I have and just do the he does um living room shows a lot. That's one of his, you know, models is he goes to people's homes and he does a show and you know there'll be obviously big Bow House fans, big Love and Rockets fans and he'll play to

1:58:18I I can't speak to this. It's probably hundred people or whatever in somebody's living room and and they've got David Jay in there which is amazing and they want David Jay in there. Now, I would do that if people wanted me there. I would do it in a heartbeat because, as I say, I love connecting. And when you're on a stage like the Wilton stage, for example, was the biggest show I've done with my solo music. I mean, I've done many House of Blues, but the Wilton is obviously it's a heart land for me and it's for us it's a big show in LA. And

1:58:48though it was wonderful and really vindicating because I got the whole place going with the music they'd never heard before, it isn't connecting in the same way because you're not meeting the people.

1:59:02They're watching you. It's a very

1:59:05I mean, you have to give, but you're sort of taking that from them in some ways. It's like taking their admiration and just appreciating it. And I really like meeting people after the shows and talking to them and and hearing what they have to say because I don't I'm realize I'm talking a lot in this interview and I'm talking not really letting you say that much but I mean it is an interview with me so I feel vindication doing that. But when I'm backstage or or after the show, I really want to hear about the people I'm talking to and I allow them to speak a

1:59:40lot more and I want to listen fully to what they have to say because it's fascinating. If you meet somebody in what does a person in Alabama, what's their preconceived notions? What are they thinking? How how do they react to certain things? And and it can be challenging sometimes. I mean, you've you've toured, so you know, it's like you meet wonderful people and sometimes you meet people who have questionable views, but I want to know all of those things and I want to know why and I want to know about them and I want to know what inspires them. I want to know what I mean some in some ways it's market

2:00:18research for me and what you know what my song's going to be next but mostly it's just because I'm fascinated like what how you walk down the street and you just you don't notice the 73 people that are on the same street. Sometimes I'll walk down the street and I'll look at each of them and I will have what's it called? s the the their understanding that you that they have a complex and complicated emotional life that you that is the same as yours and it's in so many different directions that it's it's just unfathomable that there are eight billion of us and we are all in inspired

2:01:00and reflected by our experiences and that is a diamond facet. Everybody is a diamond facet in so many ways and it's fascinating to me. So I want to know about everybody. What I find difficult is when I meet somebody who just wants to hear about me because I'm bored of me. I've lived me all my life. So I want to know about them and they don't get the chance to go up on the stage and express themselves. So let's do it now. Let's tell me about the last time you saw Depes Mode or the last time you saw Bowie or how it inspired you are by

2:01:34RebelRebel. I mean whatever it is it's like I just I sit and I center and I go okay this is fascinating this for them is an opportunity that isn't for me an opportunity it's like it it is because you meet so many people as an artist it's like these people that's was very divisive saying these people but the people that I meet don't have the stage so it is interesting to hear what they have to say and that that what is what drives me you know I love that.

2:02:05Yeah, absolutely. I I do feel like um the beauty of live music is that it is like such a um it's almost like an infinite mirror, you know, where you like um you've created this music that reflects your life in a particular moment or your thoughts in a particular moment and then you're performing it on stage and then there's other people there that reflect it back to you because they have their own experience of it. And then the infinite circle happens as well when they share who they are with you and you are converging in that moment.

2:02:40Yeah, that's a beautiful way of describing it. An infinity mirror of experience. I I think that's a good a good way especially when you're sharing I mean do you don't you don't do tribute or cover generally, right? Just mostly

2:02:53not anymore. I I did um we did the the two Bowie albums and then I I was I dipped my foot in the dep mode cover band. Um but now we just do covers so on occasion like cup covers but um but yeah I haven't done anything like that since.

2:03:08But you you have the exper and I know you've been around for a while doing Alice so you must have people who know all the songs right and they will sing the songs at your shows. I mean how do you feel when that happens? It must be a sense of community and and joy and connection and all those things. I mean I I have very few people who I mean there are a few but it's it's not that many because I haven't been present for a long time on the live circuit and that is one of the most rewarding things. It's like it's it's a it's a the church

2:03:38of Alice. Do you know what I mean? It's like those people you know and you can trust that those people in the audience are generally going to be really excellent people with good taste and who are sweet of heart and mind in some way. you know that's you get to create your circumstance by projecting your way of looking at things songwriting wise right and I mean I I've s I had a weird and this is I mean pardon me anybody who's watching who is a fan I have one song which I wrote for JC Shaz who was a member of Nync right and I not I was

2:04:16never really an NYSync guy I didn't know them because I was in England and I met JC and we were writing songs together and he's a wonderful guy. It's really a proper proper musical artist. Like NSync does not reflect the brilliance of JC Shazes in any sense. So I wrote this song for him. He had always told me I love Prince. I'm I need a song that's going to work for me. So I wrote this naughty song inspired by Prince. And I played it to people in my house that I was shared house I was living in at the time. And they said, "Okay, you can't

2:04:46give this to JC. You should keep this. Is the best thing you've ever done." And now that is my biggest song and it represents me. So people who listen to it's called Wetter and it's about you know loving loving twists um may be more than loving and it now represents me to a lot of people who come at me from a kind of sexualized perception of who I am. And I created that and I'm I'm far more than just my looks, madam. You know what I mean? So, but but it it define it defines people to you. Like imagine your Trent Resner put taking your kids to school

2:05:27and somebody says, "Will you join the you know, let's can we play one of your hits? Can you play one of our hits in front of the whole school?" It's not going to be closer, is it?

2:05:36You know what I mean?

2:05:37No. No.

2:05:40It was It was an interesting experience. It's like I create what with the music that I write. I create the expectation from the people that approach me about it. So the people that approach me about songs that I write with a whole heart and the part on the sleeve beautiful loving songs which is what the greatest hits is mostly by the way. That's what I'm doing now this year with the loving songs. I bring loving kindhearted people like Dan is a loving kind-hearted dude. like he's he's been been a fan for a while and love him dearly. He's a wonderful man and his son is lovely guy

2:06:16too and so those songs bring in those people. Now if I write a cynical song about you know people being nasty I will bring people who have been hurt like being in a depress mode cover band you'll be bringing in people who have a degree of dissatisfaction and melancholy that they exhibit in their whole being

2:06:41and and that's

2:06:43and I don't repudiate that in any way because I am a bit like that

2:06:48but you have to be careful what you put out into the universe. sometimes because you don't want it to reflect. You don't want to wish the universe to bring you something that you don't actually reflect. So my song wetter and my sexuality are not entwined. It does not define who I want to meet. Like I don't always want to meet people who are hypersexualized because there's a lot more to the the catalog. But if that's the only song they like or know, that is the people that I bring in. So I realize now what I give out will always come back. And of course it's a rule of magic

2:07:26and all that stuff. So it so it's from the Bible like this is wisdom

2:07:31of the ages like and I I've just put music out about all the things and which one hits you cannot control.

2:07:40It's so true. It's so true. Yeah. That's it is so beautiful to see um when something resonates with someone and it's so interesting to see how I I uh recently went to a book signing um with um uh the creator of the fountain. Um uh my brain it's uh my brain is squished so I'm trying to remember.

2:08:05Aronowski. Aronowski.

2:08:06Thank you. Areronowski and um yeah and he was talking about um just sort of like yeah the the idea of of the things that you put out um and what it resonates you know how it resonates with people and he was like I I actually have noticed like certain works of mine resonate with certain people. He's like you know I've noticed that people that are really into super like the tech behind it um are really into like my Noah story.

2:08:35Yes. And there's different ones.

2:08:37Um, yeah, there's Pi as well. There's Pi. So, there's Pi, Reququum for a

2:08:42Um, yeah, he's like, "And there's different people that will resonate with different different films that I've put out." And same with your songs. You

2:08:50Yeah, it's like you just never know what you've put out, like how it will connect with a person. Um, yeah, there is

2:08:57his work is is phenomenal. I love Aronowski. I Have you seen Mother? Because I Oh, no. It's not Mother, it's Vontria, isn't it? What was the last Areronowski? Because I haven't seen it.

2:09:09I can't.

2:09:09I'm not sure. Yeah,

2:09:11I I've I watch I mean if it's if it's got Aronoski on the title, I watch it because I love his work. It's it's just

2:09:18Oh, yeah. It's brilliant. So, um but

2:09:22fountain all-time favorite. Yes. But um but yeah, no it's it's you know certain things will resonate with people in different ways you know and you never know you know how it will

2:09:36it's it's resonance but it's also it who you are and it rewires who you can expect to bring into your life and and I just I only say that not because I've got woo woo mentality but because I've witnessed it happening

2:09:52like if I sing about joy joyful people come to me. If I sing about pain, I will invite people in who have pain and give me pain. It is very simple. It's a simple and it's a universal law as they call it. And so I'm making this album about joy because I want joy, you know.

2:10:14I like that.

2:10:16I want I want love. I mean, you know, I could it can sound like it's a goth record, but you listen to the lyrics and it'll be just love each other and bring peace to your life. you because honestly not not wanting to go political in any sense but there is a very little peace and joy amongst people's there's little

2:10:35and you know when I first arrived in America there was a certain guy getting elected president who and there was so much hope that's a clue as to who it was in the world about what was going to happen then it wasn't related to him or his political party it was related to what was being put out into the world by his him and his people like this is hope

2:10:59that's something that has been removed from certainly the civil discourse hope is not what I'm feeling from this era and I want hope I mean you know I and I have hope I mean I do I just think things are a big cycle it's 40 50ear cycles within 20 year cycles you know and then you have the kalpers which is 15,000 year cycles like I believe that is real because It's it's it's psychology. It's it's community and civilizational psychology. So it happens in those wheels and it and you can see it happening throughout history. So we are in you know the age of the reaper

2:11:40currently and that is something which doesn't have to occupy your mind because it's a cycle and you can't avoid it. So you might as well lean towards joy to experience the joy that you want even in an age which seems hopeless because it exists. It's the peace that lives within each human being like it lives in there is a light that cannot be extinguished unless you want it to be because you make those choices. And so I my next song easy it's called it is probably the most joyful openhearted song I've ever written. There's a very there's an embedded deep question existential question in it and it's got

2:12:25a lot of spiritual values to the song but it sounds like it doesn't. It sounds like it's just fun and I really hope it's a hit because I think it's it does what I want it to do and I think the will be made a shade lighter if somebody listens to it.

2:12:43I am looking forward to hearing it.

2:12:46Send you a preview.

2:12:47Yes, please. I mean I think that um you know while while we are limited sometimes or so we think um with how we can affect the world I think the most that we can do is being in the present moment and bringing as much joy or light or love we can to the communities around us in the present

2:13:09share sharing it sharing it

2:13:10yeah and the people that are um oh just the people currently in the chat I was going to say are so lovely we we appreciate y'all so much and just I'm seeing this wonderful group of people that are just continuing to to bring a lot of love and light and so yeah.

2:13:27Yeah. I I love it. You know, the two of us dressed so darkly can bring wonderful lightness to

2:13:34you know one of my favorite music video directors is Floria Sigismandi.

2:13:38Love her. Closer. She did

2:13:41I think she didn't she work with Bowie? Didn't she work with Bowie?

2:13:44She did. The stars are out tonight.

2:13:46Right. And um so it's like in her it's like she has created such dark work but when you read her interviews she's so light um you know and I love that it's like you there's a place for the shadow but then you can still like it's I feel like you can find the healing from the art and the music and then embody light

2:14:06Yeah. I mean you know some sometimes I feel you know we're both sort of entrenched in the goth scene. Would I Is that fair to say about Alice?

2:14:15Oh yeah. And because, you know, I've written some darker songs that work in those clubs. So the the goth scene, I mean, a lot of the people in the goth scene are absolutely wonderful and just have joy all the time. But the way they portray themselves would imply that that's not the case, right? But when you scratch the surface, I mean, I I think the Cura is a perfect band to exemplify that because their their hit breakthrough songs are so silly. And I love that you can have this goth band that did the album Pornography doing silly songs like Why Can't I Be You and

2:14:50making video.

2:14:56Uh oh. I think I think Julian froze. Are you still there?

2:15:03Says my computer. Can you see me?

2:15:05Oh, yes. I can see you now. Yes.

2:15:09Can you see me?

2:15:10Yes, I can see you.

2:15:11Okay. But you know I think the juxtiposition of having the that um aesthetic whether it be musical or actual aesthetic and lightness can that making oneself a jester and being silly in a world which is very serious is a very important role and that's so I I I would like to be that and I'm not I'm not portraying my silly self. I mainly, you know, save that for Phoebe. But

2:15:47maybe you're destined for a future children's album. We shall see.

2:15:51I would love to. She's too old. Well, the children's album I did was the ambient one, but I I was talking I was actually talking to the the organizers of Electric Daisy Carnival about maybe doing a Rafy tribute there. Do you know Rafy? She did the baby beluga in the deep blue sea. Swim So Wild. Anyway, it's a huge He's a huge children's artist. He's old old man really like just a regular old guy. And I was just thinking I would love and I would have to volunteer it, but I would love to do the children's tent and play Rafy songs because I I used to go to my my

2:16:26daughter's um school and perform for them with my ukulele. And the joy that children have that it it goes away at the teenage years at least. And the joy that a three-year-old hearing their favorite song has. There's nothing that can beat that. That's not you know you being on stage in front of thousands of people just like vibing and dancing and swimming lasers. Just the joy reminating from one child dwarfs that experience. Especially if your own my my own. So Phoebe used to I used to go to her school. She used to sit on my lap and glower at all the kids and I used to have to play my ukulele

2:17:06over her head. She was like, "This is my daddy. Don't come don't come near." You so funny.

2:17:18Well, um if there are any other um uh questions, um please feel free to drop it in the chat. Um, again, thank you all so much for um spending your time with us, for being such a joy in our in our community. Um, Julian, I I I wanted to thank you for taking the time to share um your inspiration, your wisdom.

2:17:43You're most welcome. I wouldn't call it wisdom. I'm not that old.

2:17:48Well, I think that everybody has wisdom to offer, you know. I'm sure Phoebe has wisdom to offer.

2:17:54She does. Fair. Fair enough. All right. Fine. Thank you. You're welcome. And it's been a real joy and thank you. I really enjoyed reconnecting with you, Tash, because uh

2:18:04I didn't realize you were in LA and I didn't realize you played piano. So that I'm storing that information. So if I do that big show, I you know, you might get a call.

2:18:15I would be honored.

2:18:17Wonderful. All right.

2:18:18Yes. Um, oh, and um, uh, oh, uh, Isidro says, um, I must say I like where your heart is at, Julian. It's very sweet.

2:18:28Thank you, Isidro. I I try to keep light and what I what I say in situations like

2:18:35may not be my everyday grump. No, but um I I um I first encountered Julian when we um played together at the Labyrinth Masquerade Ball.

2:18:49And um I just remember it was so magical like seeing like your um emulation of Bowie in that context too. Um and um I mean it's such it was a magical experience all around. It's everybody is loves Labyrinth clearly and loves Bowie. Sure. And to be Jarth at the Labyrinth of Jarth was a pretty great honor to be

2:19:13I mean, it was pretty magical.

2:19:16I talked to Sean about maybe doing it again. I don't know whether this year is going to happen, but um I would love to because now I'm in town, so I I would be I would be available. And you know, I I mean, I love Sean. He's he's a he's he's doing something which I mean, I know he doesn't make any money doing it. And it's it's a labor of love for for everybody, but it is the most magical event I have ever been to. Like it's absolutely ridiculous, isn't it? I mean, every cosplay person in the whole of Hollywood doing their best work in one

2:19:50room, you know, or well, several rooms, but one hotel. So, I I really hope I'll work with him. May I mean, maybe this year, who knows? Haven't actually

2:19:59That would be amazing. Yeah.

2:20:01Are you playing again? um not not at Labyrinth. Um we're we're going to be playing at um the Goth Pride event um next month. Um so here locally actually in LA, but um aside from that, we we weren't planning on doing anything until we finished um so we we're finishing off our live album um uh DVD. So that's been a a work in process. And that's like um uh the last f finishing touches of our As Above So Below album. Oh, wonderful.

2:20:32So, yeah. So, kind of in the cave. In the cave at the moment.

2:20:36You're in the process. Are are you doing mixes and stuff yourself or are you Who do you have working on it?

2:20:41Oh, that's Scott. Um Scott does all of the producing

2:20:45the drummer. Yeah. Okay. Wonderful.

2:20:47No, the guitarist. Yes.

2:20:49Oh, guitarist. I'm I'm sorry. Yes. No, it's it's good to have things in house, isn't it? Because I mean, it's

2:20:54it's a process. I'm I love working with producers and I love working with mixers, but I also like getting things like you have contained control yourself. It's like you can just turn it on at 3 in the morning and tweak, you

2:21:08This is true. Yeah. I mean, it depends. I've worked with different producers and it's it's so interesting. I love watching the process of it. Um especially the producers that work really fast. Like I had um an amazing experience with Steve Albini.

2:21:22Um and I I got to play on an album um that he produced and um he's so fast. like he had his studio so dialed in and it's all analog

2:21:32that it was like watching him mix it was just it was like he mixed an entire album basically in one sitting and it was like

2:21:39wow you know watching a master

2:21:42but once once you I mean you know I mean he's a mics guy isn't it was all mics so once you got the mic positioning right you don't need to do any processing

2:21:50and he had all the right preamps and and I I regret because I I called him um this is in Chicago isn't he used to be based I called him and he wanted to work on something with me but I I was in Chicago for one day and he didn't have that day free and I'm like then of course he died so I will never work with Steve Albini but you know do little not do little sorry surfer Rosa alone PJ

2:22:17like every every Yeah. And he charged no, it wasn't a rate. He charged studio time, right? Because he realized he was just an engineer really, but he was one of the greatest producers in the history. So I'm lucky that I've worked with Nick Lorn,

2:22:31who is, I would say, as close to as close to Steve Albini as you can get these days. He's a brilliant, brilliant

2:22:39And I and I love I loved working with him and I would any time because I adore him as a human as well. He's one of my best friends. But um yeah, it's been a while since I worked with a producer because um it it just because I have contained control over everything myself and I have that process too. I have the right preamp for my bass, my fretless bass. I have the right settings for everything. So same thing I can turn around. I mean several of those Bowie songs on station album, the basic track was recorded for two of them in one day three times because I know what I'm

2:23:17doing. I just plug it in, go. Plug it in, go. Plug it in, go. I don't have to turn up somewhere, dial the sounds in, put things in the right positioning, all that stuff because everything's here. And although it I miss I do miss the process of of going in a room and and the ceremony of having something to do with other people involved. I mean, that's wonderful sometimes, but also I like the facility of just being able to do it and get it done. One song in a day, you know, from scratch.

2:23:45Yeah. No, it's it's definitely different I think when you're working with uh well it depends on the producer but um in the case of Steve Albini because everything was analog cut to tape like there's a pressure where you want to like make sure that you are very prepared so it's like one take

2:24:01just one take you know and I mean of course he could cut the tape which I watched him do um which was amazing but I you know it's like when I think you're in your own studio you have like kind of like the ability to like meander and I love the meander time. I love the ability to just flow and make mistakes and meander and Yeah.

2:24:21Sure. But there's also a lack of cohesion that can come with that. That's something I' I've noticed. I mean, you know, several of my records have been constructed like jigsaw pieces and I've done I've overproduced some of my songs and I listen back to them now. I'm like, "Oh my god, I should have just played that in one take and got it." So is a performance because this sounds like it's been jigsawed together. I know people disagree with me on that, but I'm of course you're always hyperritical of your own work. So,

2:24:53it's true. We are we are always our our own worst critic. It's it's very very Yeah. Um Oh. Um um Isidro asked um uh what is your favorite song to play on the piano?

2:25:09Favorite song to play on the piano? Well, I really like playing a song called um Lady Grinning Soul. I I love the song We Are the Dead from the Diamond Dogs album.

2:25:20it's a beautiful one to play and it's really The chords are quite interesting, aren't they? They're cool.

2:25:27And I love Arabesque. Um I can't remember it's in E by Debusi. It's one of the most beautiful pieces. It's it's a and cla deloon. Those those that's the

2:25:43Um for me I think uh well the patik sonata is actually my favorite. It's by

2:25:50Um yeah and um but the thing that really got me like hooked on piano was Moonlight Sonata. So

2:25:58Right. Right. Oh no. I I that was one of the first classical piano pieces I learned where I was inspired to learn it because it's so eligic.

2:26:08So beautiful, isn't it? It's like it's expansive and dark and it has some It has portent to it.

2:26:17It does. It does. It's inspired so many of my songs. Absolutely. Um well, my dear friends, thank you so much for um spending the time with us. Um and again, Julian, thank you for for taking the time to chat with us. Um

2:26:35we've only done two and a half hours. Are you slacking on? I mean, we can just keep going

2:26:44Offline. Yes. Yes. Um, well, oh,

2:26:47thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. I really, really enjoyed it and, you know, it reminds me that I've met so many wonderful people in my life and I should try and revisit that world because I've been in such an insular space for the last 10 years. So, thank

2:27:02Oh, yes, of course. I it is funny how we get into our our little um bubbles of universe and then it's like little moments that you're like, "Oh, yes. There's there's wonder

2:27:12there's other things.

2:27:13There's other things outside the

2:27:15Right. Exactly.

2:27:16Well, my Max just told me it's gonna get run out of batteries, so this is a good time to sign off.

2:27:22Thank you so much, Tash. Really appreciate you. Yes.