John Calacci, in full

4:23Hi friends, I am Tash. You are watching Unwritten Rules of the Road. Um, we are joined today by John Calacci. Um, John, thank you so much for for for joining

4:37Oh, believe me, it's my pleasure.

4:41So, um, you have quite a deep, uh, history in the music industry, um, yeah, you when you shared like all all the people that you had worked with, I was completely blown away. I was like, "Wow, you've worked with them and you've worked with them." Um, but if it's okay, I wanted to start at the beginning because I saw that um, your your first thing that you had listed was mixing sound. So you worked as a sound engineer to start off.

5:10Yeah. So I was in college. I was 17 in college and uh met a I was a music lover since I was a little kid. So it you know that is my background there. But um I was in college and I met a buddy whose buddy was in a band and I went along to see them play even though I was way too young to be in the bars but I'd looked it so I was okay. But I uh I was open. So I went and uh they go, "Yeah, would you want to be our sound guy?" And I go, "Yeah, I've never done it, but I'll

5:42learn." You know? So that's what it was. And the great thing was the three guys in three of the uh four guys in the band were leftovers from a band called Fuse, which if anybody knows Cheap Trick history, Rick and Tom come from that was their first big band that um did an album on Epic Records back in the day. So, so [clears throat] after they broke up, Rick and Tom went off and started Cheap Trick and these guys just wanted to be like a high-end cover band. So, that's what they were. And, uh, so yeah, that was my first. So, I just learned and it was a little tiny PA. It wasn't

6:16like a big deal. It was three-piece band. Um, but, uh, and I just grew with that through the years with different bands and the same one the same guy who I met in college. um every band he was in, I mixed their sound and then uh yeah, I just and it was a kind of a weekend warrior thing for the most part because I once I graduated from college I uh I was an insurance agent as horrible as that sounds for for several years just to make a living because you get out of college and you need a real job. So that's what I did. But so I

6:49called it uh suit and tie during the week and jeans and t-shirt in the weekends kind of thing for for years. And then to fast forward, um, one of the bands, this guy was not in, but, uh, last one of the bands I mixed, um, in the early 80s, uh, it's called EIEO, which done a record on Frontier Records and Spock, I don't know if you knew who Spock was, Spock was a industry person, and she was sort of managing EIIO and got us the uh, the tour opening for the Bangles. in this is 1986. Um, and it was kind of a college tour and stuff and and EIO was kind of a

7:31college radio, you know, friendly band. So, anyways, we're only supposed to do a couple weeks. They loved us and um and then uh asked us to do the the next four weeks. So, we ended up doing six weeks. So, I actually had I quit my job as an insurance agent to do this tour, not not knowing what was coming next. that whole tour and uh helped the girls because they were having a little trouble getting to their bus and stuff and they were getting big at that point and Walk Like an Egyptian and uh uh the other songs from that record were were got them you know much bigger than they

8:09had been and so they asked me for their next tour which is 1987 if I wanted to be their uh touring security out of security so I said yeah I don't have a job I own a posts that I need to pay for. So yeah, so that's how that started and uh and then I did that for the next few years uh 87 88 89 and then they broke up at the end of ' 89. So that was that with that. Um but that was three great years and we and when [clears throat] Eternal Flame got huge um we had finished a whole US tour,

8:48girls were exhausted. We're in Florida at some record company uh big event and of course all the record companies there and they're like because Eternal Flame was huge in Europe, right? Was number one. They wanted to keep it going. So they're like begging the girls to go do a press tour and they're like, "No, no, no. We're too tired. We just want to go home. What do you want? What do you need?" It's like we'll fly you on the Concord, right? Which the Concord was a supersonic jet that they don't have anymore. um you can bring your boyfriends. Um every there'll be cart blush. Everything

9:24no matter what you want is paid for covered, right? So they decided to go and of course the crew didn't doesn't go but I I got to go because I was still their bodyguard, security guy, whatever. So that was three weeks in Europe. It was London, uh Amsterdam, and Madrid, weirdly were the three cities, but it was a week in each one. We're staying at like the Ritz Carlton and Madrid. [clears throat] And and they were serious about the car wash thing cuz it was uh we it was expensive place to stay number one and but we'd eat in the restaurant and we'd be sending $500

9:57bottles of wine to each other that kind of thing. So we we were milking it and having a blast. So that was a great that was a great year. And then uh uh actually that was 88 because ' 89 was the the big tour big tour big tour. And then uh no it was ' 89 and then we did another tour and then that was it and Bangles broke up. So and then I'm just rambling but I'm just kind of going through the years. Stop me whenever you

10:26No no no this is amazing. So, so this is like November I think of of uh 89 and then I in n in later that even I think in December I got a call from Steve Boding who was the production manager also sound front house sound guy for the Bangles also married he married Debbie the drummer so and uh I went to that wedding too that was in England that was um but anyways um so he called me he said uh I'm going to be working with this band you want to do you want a drum tech or something. Yeah, sure. Who is it? And uh [clears throat] it was

11:01Nirvana, right?

11:05But the tour never happened because Kurt got sick and canceled. So, that didn't happen. But then he's then he's um he's like, "Well, I'm I'm doing another tour starting in April or something, March, April." Um it's with this new newish artist, Shenado Connor. And he goes, "Do you want to do you want to do behead of security?" I go, "Yeah, I'd love to." So, this is where it gets really really kind of strange because I had the gig and then I get a call. Well, she'd rather have a woman security

11:41Okay. Can't, you know, whatever. And then, well, she can't find one, so I think you've got the gig again. And then a few weeks later, well, she doesn't feel like she really needs one. And I'm like going, "Okay." I go, "Look, try this." I said, "Tell them start." The tour started in Atlanta. I said, "Tell them to fly me out to Atlanta. I'll spend a week doing the job. If they decide they she doesn't want me, doesn't need me. Fly me home. You don't pay me for that week." Right.

12:15So, flew me out at the hotel, held a band and crew in the bar, of course, started the tour. And uh I meet I meet her and the tour manager asks me to uh take her shopping. So I take her to the underground mall in Atlanta and and I'm just I'm not one of these security guys that's like on top of you. I'm not you know I'm not I'm way different than a lot of them that I've met and a lot of them were. She was used to these guys in England that would uh had the radios here and like okay we're coming around the corner. We're doing this. She hated

12:48that. She hated anything celebrity buy. She wouldn't ride in a limo, all this stuff. So, she hated all that.

12:53But I was just like this dude hang, you know, walking along with her, right? Anyways, take her to the the mall. She goes in a store. I just waited outside just kind of walking along. And uh we get back to the hotel. I'm there talking to some of the other guys, meeting them, and she uh the the tour manager comes up and she goes, "You got the gig." So, I didn't have to like audition for a week. It was like a 20minut audition. So, anyways, so and that was an incredible year, too. But I'll let you ask questions because I'm just rambling on out. So,

13:31no, that's

13:32Go ahead. What else? What do you want to [laughter] Well, I'm I'm loving that it's like you you started off in one sector and it was just sort of like natural transitions that happened and it seems like it happened from friends that were like oh I know John and obviously your work probably spoke for itself where they were like he's he's a great person to work with right?

13:54Well yeah well the thing too is um that's how this business works. It's who you know, who you've worked with, who likes you, who likes the job you did, and if they'll recommend you or if they'll bring you along. That's what Steve Boding did. He brought me along, which I'm forever grateful for. And uh I don't know if you noticed in in the messages, he he wrote boring, right? And I wrote that's I said, "Is that is that your new last name?" So he's British. We take the piss out of each other all day long. It's so and I'm mentioning him a lot so he he won't think it's so boring

14:27if [laughter] he's listening. But anyway, but so yeah, that's how it kind of works. And and I've I've actually done it all. I've mixed sound, I've drum teched, guitar tech, keyboard, bass tech, whatever. It's all it's all all just you know what it is. And uh did security for many many years and then um food managing for many many years. So yeah, it's 50ome years in the business.

14:51Do I look that old?

14:54that's amazing. That's really amazing that you've had that career for that

14:58Yeah. So, what else do you want to know?

15:02Was she I mean, I'm sure she was right.

15:07She was amazing. I would literally the side of the stage for every show and she would always look over at me after a song or two and ask me if it's okay. And of course, I would make her laugh by saying no, it stinks or whatever, you know. Um, but literally I'd be standing there and the hair in my arms would stand up the way from her singing. It's just, you know, otherworldly. So, but yeah, she treated me like a king. I mean, I was her by her side night and day basically. And couldn't have been sweeter, funnier. um so humble and um my favorite stories

15:46when I first met her and uh one of the first things we did was we're supposed to do Saturday Night Live. This is the first one where Andrew Dice Clay was supposed to be the host, right? So she said she wasn't going to do it because he was too much of a pig, basically the misogynist pig. So she said, "I'm not going to be on the same show with this guy, blah blah blah." So, um, anyway, so and she had her her three-year-old with us on tour, Jake. So, um, she wanted to go, uh, find the toy shop. So, we're in New York City, and I

16:20I, uh, t take her to the store to get toys and stuff, and she she paid whatever she bought with a $100 bill. So, she had like $70 in change, right? And the first homeless person she saw when she walked out of the store, she gave it to him. So I was just like, okay, I like her.

16:41Um, yeah. And that was an interesting whole thing. Anyways, and and then the other times at Saturday Night Live too were also very interesting. But uh yeah, I just and she I know Shane had passed away uh not too long ago and I spoken to her right before that and we kept in touch through the years and I saw her two or three times through the years, but she was always she changed her phone number or her her uh email every five minutes. So she'd give me it then I'd try it would you know be worth it. So I'd have to like somehow get a hold of

17:12her again, whatever. Um, yeah, she's planning on maybe coming out to LA and and living here, living out her uh retirement years as she called it. You know, she said, "I might as well I should be in the sun, not in this." She was in London. She had moved to London. So, and so

17:29so that was a heartbreaker for me for

17:32So, yeah. [clears throat]

17:34But, uh,

17:35she sounds like she was a very downto-earth person. She was, like I say, she refused to to uh get in a limo. She would literally like make the band take the limo and she would take the band crew, the band uh van or whatever else it was.

17:51And uh so um but yeah, that was just Yeah, it was it was a hard year. And the Bangles, too. There were times, you know, just doing security like people really like getting where they shouldn't be and doing things, saying things whatever there shouldn't be. So people always ask me like, "What's your qualifications?" I just go, "Well, how to get out of situations without making a mess or hurting anybody or this and that." Um, the second thing was I wrestled in high school, so I could I could put somebody in a hold and just get them out because that's what you want. You're not It's not a fist fight

18:33you're looking for or anything, you

18:35And uh,

18:36a funny story, too. I actually interviewed when I first moved to LA. I actually flew out early to for the interview was with uh, Black Crows, and it was basically to be um, what's his face? Uh, the singer's uh, bodyguard while they're recording in the studio. But basically, it was to drive him around. And I told him this, too, when I met him. I said, uh, I said, "Yeah, you just needed somebody to drive drive you around and get you get you out of your bar fights." Cuz he was getting in a lot of bar fights and stuff back then. And and uh and there's all these like big muscle

19:10guys that were waiting to interview too, right? Like big, you know, weightlifter dudes and stuff. And and the manager's like, "Yeah, you're different than the rest of these these guys." I said, "Well, yeah, I am." And so I do my my job a different way, but uh I said, "If you're looking for somebody to be his bouncer and just go around and and break up and finish his fights," I go, "It's not me, you know. I'm not in it for that." And I would do a tour, but I'm not going to just drive him around LA and stuff like that. So, um that was pretty funny. And then he asked me uh

19:41actually asked me his him and his brother were there. He goes uh asked me if I could knew how to roll a joint, right? Mhm.

19:47And I knew I didn't want the gig, so I just I said, "Well, I probably could, you know, do that, but I'm not going

19:56That was my answer, but I'm not going to [laughter] I'm not your I'm not your slave, you know. Come on. Anyway,

20:02when I told him about we had a laugh about it years later on

20:06I was the long writer about that. But

20:09anyway, so what else would you like to know?

20:14I was curious about the album. Oh, go ahead. Sorry. you you had a

20:18well well I could finish with uh so Chenade like that that year and then the next year Susanna Hoffs uh asked me if I would um come with her on her press tour for uh her first solo album that was coming out you know in 1991. But uh going back to the uh the uh Chenade thing um one of the incredible things we did uh was Amnesty International concert in Santiago, Chile. So

20:49that was cool in it in itself but um and [clears throat] it was only about 6 months after Pinish had been ousted as dictator. So it was still very sketchy, hairy place to be. So they had us sequestered in our hotel almost like we're jurors or something with mach machine guard cops outside and we couldn't go anywhere without a a whole patrol of of of you know the policeman chili chile and peace policeman. So but uh so the only people so the the people in the show well there's two two nights. One was like New Kids on the Block and all these other you know type bands and

21:29then our night was uh um Sting, Peter Gabriel, Jackson Brown and Chenade were the four four main acts and it was very heavy because it was in the um big soccer arena wherever where Pinish had tortured and murdered many of the his whatever opponents whatever.

21:49Yeah. And so there's a whole thing where all the mothers of those mothers and wives of those those people were on stage at one point too. So it was like this very heavy heavy thing. But during the week it was there for a whole week. Um it was just us in the hotel, right? So it was we hung out. We all had dinner together and stuff. And one one of the days um I told my girlfriend Tanya that I was she hates when I tell this story because she thinks it's too too droppy. um so uh Chenade wanted to play tennis and there was clay courts which were

22:24cool and I played tennis and and of course she didn't. She walks out in her Doc Martens and stuff and trying to hit the ball and Clay and so we're just goofing around and a couple of other guys uh Dean and and Mark in the band uh were playing too but nobody could really play right and so we're just hitting the ball around and next to us was uh on the other court right next to us was um Sting and his tour accountant Goon who actually ended up going to prison for many years for embezzling millions of dollars of Sting's money. And then the other side was Peter Gabriel and uh

23:00and I don't remember the Sting's tour managers was was the fourth. So anyways, the and we're just out there and the tour manager goes, "I got to go do some work." So he walks off and I forget which one looked over and said, "Does anybody want to be a fourth?" Right. And I go, "I'll play." So I went and played. [clears throat] And uh it was hilarious. And um it was me and Peter Gabriel against Sting and Dune and Peter and I were about equal. I was a little bit better. Um, so and we we play for two days and of course it's 1990 so there's no phones or you know

23:42nobody's bringing a camera so there's no like here here's here's us playing tennis or anything but it's just like it was pretty surreal and it's clay courts and you got the snowcapped Andes in the background and it's just kind of this whole you know who gets to do this right so it's one of those things same things like flying to Concord like who gets to do that especially on somebody else's time right this is a $5,000 this back in 1980 80 whatever 89 one way is 5,000. Um so just stuff like that you get to do if you're in the right place with the right

24:14people kind of thing. So um but anyways and then Susanna that whole uh thing right after that. So it's like one thing after another which is pretty rare because usually there's a pretty good size gap. This was just like Chenade decided she was done. We were supposed to do Australia and I never been. I wanted to go. So, she canceled that tour in November. And uh December, Susanna called me and said, "Hey, I'm I'm doing this press tour for my first record and I want you to come with me." So, we did US, Canada, um Japan, Australia, and Europe in three months. Wow. Right. Yeah. So it's like

24:53so I got to go all over the world and it was again basically cart blanch we had [clears throat] because record company was again still feeding off eternal flame and and uh [clears throat] we really want to you know keep the momentum going whatever. So, um, yeah, they spent a for doing this press tour. And then, like I say, it was, you know, wine and dining with the record company and just beautiful hotels and I would I would jog with Sue every morning no matter how I felt because she would go to bed early. I wouldn't.

25:25I'm in Paris and then go have fun, right? [clears throat] But, uh, but yeah, one night the uh the drivers because we have them 247, they go, "Let me take you to a club." So Sue's in bed. It's like 11 o'clock at night and uh we get in the the car, the limo, and he takes me to this club. It's called the Bandouche, which at the time was like this very famous club that all the models in Paris would go to. That was their hang, right? And he pulls up and at the time I had long hair and black long jacket and whatever. and uh

26:01and he pulls up, gets out, it's a Mercedes limo and he pulls out and he goes up to the dorman as people are waiting to get in and he's like, "I've got this rockstar from America that, you know, I want to get in." And so we get right in and I'm sitting there going, "Yeah, these are the beautiful people and I don't belong here." So everyone ranking left. You know, it's just was that that intimidating? Just like,

26:26"Yeah, I've seen her. I've seen her, you know, all these models." I was like, "Okay, yeah, this is this isn't me." You know, but it was still pretty cool.

26:36so um yeah, I had to get up at like 6:00 in the morning after being out till 3:00 in the morning and jog and I I barely made it without losing my cookies along the same river.

26:49So that was like,

26:50oh my gosh,

26:51okay. Yeah, I can't do that. I'm going to have to do this. So, but um but the rest of it was just fun, you know.

26:57So, yeah. And then and then she uh she goes, "Yeah, I'm doing a a a summer shed tour with opening for Don Henley." And I go she goes, "But I wish I could bring you, but I can't really afford a security person, you know." And I said, "Well, I'll help drum tech and whatever." And she goes, "Oh, okay." So that was my actually first fora at that, right? And I I play I play guitar and stuff, so I'm you know, not a real musician, but I play. And anyway, so I ended up that was my first foray into that kind of thing. And uh I did that

27:31whole tour and again that was a blast. I mean, Don Henley's band was great. He was great. The you know, Big Sheds sold out and and Susanna did really well. She she killed it and uh she even had uh Rusty Anderson who's a guitar player played been played with Paul McCartney for the last 20ome years at least, something like that. So he was a guitar player. a really top-notch band and young guys with long hair kind of thing. So, it's a lot of fun and uh I get some Anyways, um so that was three three and a half months of of that and then

28:10I decided I'd move to LA cuz I'm from Rockford. So, yeah, okay. there's not much for me to do here and business is out there and [clears throat] the old uh tour manager and actually managed the Bangles for a while, Ian. Ian Lloyd Bisley um had a house in in Woodland Hills and uh he said, "Yeah, you can stay at my house and I'm in I'm in Europe. He he's he was he's been taking care of Christoberg who couple other hits, but anyways, he's huge in Europe. So, he's He was gone for almost five years, all all but like a few months. And so I got to live in this

28:51nice little house in Willland Hills with a pool for 5 years for next to nothing.

28:57that was pretty sweet. And then that's when I got back into mixing cuz tours weren't coming up and whatever. So I just started mixing showcases and uh Meredith Brooks was a friend of uh the girl I was seeing at the time. And um I mixed some of her showcases. Um, do you know who she is?

29:15Mm- [clears throat] I don't.

29:16Um, she had a hit um, I'm a [ __ ] That that was her song. Um, it's been a while. I know you're much younger. Um, but she had a kind of hit at that and she was she was great too. Had a great band. Um, and this guy Rob Lawer and did his showcase and he got signed and uh, who I didn't see for 20 years and then I've been working with him quite a bit the last 10 15 years again. So, um, doing charity stuff. We do a lot of charity stuff, too.

29:45Um, so doing that for a while and then, uh, there's a I was tour managing E, um, before the Eels, right before the Eels stuff. and uh and that and then there was a gap and then uh Bangles got back together in 1999 to record a song for uh uh Austin Powers movie, I think the second movie and uh they decided they were going to tour again. So that's I was right back in at that point um again doing backline stuff at that point um is that's all he needed at that point. And uh so doing that um uh since since then. But so we had a a tour

30:34manager and managers, different managers for a few years here and there and then was 2003 or four somewhere in that that point. Um I they handed the the reigns to me. I said, "Yeah, I can do it. Let me do it." you know, and it's so tour managing now at that point is the hardest job, but it's also good to be in charge. So that's

31:01what exactly is tour managing actually if you could share that.

31:05If I if I if I had to give my definition, it's it's I'm wearing many hats. You're an accountant. You're a babysitter. You're a bartender [laughter] sometimes. Um, and you're uh I want to say a judge, but you have to break up disputes and things like that or just, you know, decide, okay, this this isn't working. We need to do this. Um, and then so the bangles for years, I should just sign my emails, dad, because it's basically like being the dad,

31:36You're the dad. So, um, but [clears throat] yeah. So, but but yeah, the and and um booking not booking agent, but a travel agent. So, because I I did all my own I didn't use travel agencies. I I did all the booking of flights and hotels myself because I knew what everybody wanted and um got the best hotels and and got to a point where I could, you know, have relationships with different hotels and always get like great rooms at great rates in really nice hotels and uh so that kind of thing. and then I know what everybody's you know flight preferences were and stuff like that and I only I

32:14didn't trust anybody else to do it right. So it's a lot of work but then you like I say you're in charge you're you have your hand on everything so you know it's right and you know it's how you want it. And I've met so many tremendous. Everybody does it differently. You know, everybody's pretty tremendous. It's completely different. Some are way

32:34Some are way like me. There's a few like me that do everything. And uh so, but yeah, it is a hard job and and when things go wrong, you're the dad. When things go right,

32:47they just went right. you're not you don't get as many oh that was you did a great job as hey this didn't work out or that was you know I didn't like this so so you got to be pretty thick skinned and you just got to trust I mean takes a strong personality too because some people try to walk all over you I've had artists kind of that I've only worked with for a short time that kind of like tried to treat me a little differently

33:13as long as they were not aligned I you know fine but if if somebody like there's certain things you can't do with me, especially having done security, too, right? I mean, um I know how to deal with things without causing too many ruffles, but I also I I don't take anything from anybody.

33:34I I even tell people I go,

33:36I wouldn't let my mom and dad talk to me like that, and you're certainly not going to talk to me like that.

33:41And if you want me to if you want me to leave, I'll leave because what you're doing right now is making me unhappy. And I do it. And I I literally turned down some some after working with somebody years of very lucrative six figure a year kind of employment. Not worth it.

34:08For me. For me. For some people.

34:10And [clears throat] other people that have worked with this person. I don't want to mention who it is. Um but um had completely different. They were like whatever you need, whatever you need. You know, I I'll take care of it. You can talk to me any way you want. And I was I'm just the opposite. You know, I will make I will do everything the way you want it. I'll do it right. And you know, but you're not going to treat me horribly. You're just not. Yeah. find somebody else you want to talk like that. It's not me. So, so I and I've always, so I've always been happy with

34:43what I'm doing until I'm not

34:45like that one time and I

34:47I'm done. It's

34:49you know, but like I say, passing up a lot of work, but sometimes it's just not worth it, you know. And

34:55I think that's it keeps you happy then, like you were saying.

34:58And and I and I do this. I love music. I love music. I have since I was a little kid. I mean, I look at some of the 45s I had and they're like advanced music for a little kid, you know, if I mention the bands, you you're going to know how to lose that. But, um, but even like bands like the Yard Birds and stuff like that were like this British blues with that Clapton and Jeff Beck and Jimmy Paige playing guitar with them through the years. I had the 45s and all that stuff as a whatever nine-year-old, whatever I was at the time. And uh

35:31so it's just yeah, music was my life from being a little kid.

35:35So being around it and and uh

35:40it makes me happy until I'm not.

35:43Yeah. No,

35:44which is rare. Which is rare. Like like the Bangles, we're like family.

35:48We we just are. And and it's so comfortable. And so been very very very fortunate. But I think I you make some of your your own fortune by

36:01being good at what you do and being, you know, nice and care and take care of things. Um, but there's a lot of luck involved, too, you know. I mean,

36:13working with Chenade, you're frozen. We're both frozen.

36:20I hear you.

36:21Do you see we're frozen?

36:23I'm not frozen, but I think

36:25Yeah, I hear you, too. We are both We're both frozen.

36:27Are we? Yeah.

36:28You're frozen on my on my screen.

36:30So, anyways, [clears throat] Scott,

36:34yeah, I'm here.

36:35It might be my It might be my Wi-Fi. I don't know.

36:37Yeah, I think I'm way up by the hills

36:41Yeah, if you want to turn it off and then turn back the video. Um, it'll probably unfreeze. Speaking of um behind the scenes techs, three cheers for Scott Landis for helping us with our tech.

36:55Oh yeah.

36:56Thank you, Scott.

36:58Always happy to be here.

36:59Yes. Am I um am I still frozen?

37:02Uh no, you're good.

37:03Just John.

37:04You're good.

37:05Well, I'll I'll I'll take a second to say thank you everyone for for hanging out with us. I'm loving seeing some people that um that are that know John um and our friends that are new to John. So, um yeah, when he gets back on, I'll I'll relay some of these questions that I'm seeing in the chat. But, thank you all so much for hanging out with us and bearing with us while we're figuring out the tech stuff. I'm sure John's probably just restarting. Yeah, I love um uh what what um Pete Russo is saying. Um I love living in the future, but we lost something also.

37:45Hello. You have to you have to have been there and be in the moment. Um yes. And um um we'll ask we'll ask um John about this question. Um, according to Henry Rollins, tour manager is the parent. Yes, I would definitely attest to that, [laughter] being the tour manager myself for my band. Yes. Um, yes, Scott's getting some love in the chat. Thank you, Scott, for saving our lives once again with your cape.

38:17I think this is my first time I've ever been um [laughter] on the screen.

38:23You want to try your video again, John?

38:26Yeah. Um,

38:31there we go.

38:31Oh, there you are.

38:32Okay. I was just testing text testing like Okay, what do we do? [laughter]

38:36It might it might be my Wi-Fi. I'm guessing like I was

38:41I noticed that your voice was cutting out like once in a while, like not too often, but um

38:45but it's fine. Yeah, I think you're you're all right.

38:48Okay. Sorry. Yeah, like I say, I'm up in the hills and my Wi-Fi is uh is satelliteish, so it's it's not super great. So,

38:59seems I think I think Yes, please. Okay.

39:02Um actually wanted to there's a few uh questions that came in the chat.

39:06Um so, um Pete Russo is saying um according to Henry Rollins, tour manager is the parent. Is that accurate?

39:16That's Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm

39:17He's the dad. Yeah, [laughter] absolutely. And and not to put musicians down, all of you, but there's quite a [laughter] few. They're like they're like children, you know, and a lot of times like what do I do? How do I do this? And you're like really? Okay. So, not all, but but and it's cute and you know what? And that's to me that's the job. The job is to make sure everybody's okay and everybody's comfortable and everybody gets what they need and everybody hears what they need to hear and all that. All of it. All of it. That's just it. It's all-encompassing.

39:50And uh

39:52um [clears throat] and go and going back even in my my uh uh touring security bodyguard days like especially like the British crews, they're always like really like they want to bust your nuts, right? So So Chenade's crew is always like give me a hard time. I went look I've done every one of your jobs before and I've done them well. So

40:13if you want to make fun of me, they called me Mr. White glove, right? because you walk in, you're not doing gear, you're not doing any stuff like

40:20And then I'd always bring them a beer or a drink or something like while they're setting up then they stopped giving me [ __ ] Right. So again, you got to use this once in a while just to

40:33make things go well. So

40:36I love that you've you've played those different roles, so you have a very deep knowledge of how things run and how how all the wheels turn together.

40:44Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah. I've wired up PAS. I've done, you know, so my only problem now is people go, "Can you mix this?" And I'm like, "I'm an analog guy, man. I I I have never worked a digital board." And if you gave me an analog board, yeah, I could do it in a minute, you know, and I've done studio work and I've mixed my own stuff. I do some music and and stuff like that. So, but uh but being on a a digital board is just it would take me too long to figure to learn it on the spot, you know. So, can you mix a

41:18show? And and I'm kind of you kind of moved on from that anyways, you know. Yeah, I will tour manage, you know, or I mean lately I've been working with Peter Asher, who's quite famous old gentleman who had a group called Peter and Gordon back in the 60s. And Peter ended up well, first of all, Peter grew up with Paul McCartney living in his house for a a few years while uh Paul was dating Jane Asher, his sister. So, he's got that. Then Paul McCartney gave him a song World Without Love that was a big hit for them. Anyways, then Peter went on to uh

41:56be who was head of uh Apple for Apple Records when they first started. And then he ended up u managing and producing Linda Ronstead, James Taylor, um artists like that. And through the years he's won many Grammys and done all kinds of stuff. But anyways, he's um so he does a he does shows where he he plays these songs that they had and tells all the stories about all the other artists that he's worked with and things like that. So that's kind of what I'm doing doing lately. So it's not really it's not really tour managing. It's but it's I'm kind of dealing with all kinds of factions of what's going on

42:32with the shows and this and that. So um

42:36that's fun. And he's a he's a gentleman. He's a sweetheart and a really very very smart man who uh has again done it all as well. So, you know, it's nice. It's nice to work with classy people. Let me put it that way for sure.

42:52Well, we're seeing a a Cosmo Toppers 88 Keys saying our Wild Honey Orchestra shows run like clockwork thanks to John. Yeah, they and they just call me the uh the coolest the coolest guy in the room is is a thing because the So, yeah, I was saying we do these charity things which Wild Honey is uh a great a great uh charity that works with uh autism, childhood autism and uh research and that and we do these shows that end up being epic shows. We do backyard shows to be these epic shows with like 70 80 and massaging, you know, egos for that many people. It's a huge, huge

43:38undertaking. But the shows end up being epic. And we we did a show with um again, I'll be talking about bands that way before your time, but the love and spoonful, which had a million hits, right? We actually got three, John, Sebastian, and and the two of the other guys that from the original band to do the show, which we'd always try to get maybe one person. So, we we did a whole Love and Spoonful uh concert with actually three out of the four, the fourth one had passed away years

44:09who hadn't ever played together in like 40, 50 years, something like that. So, they're really special, cool events. And uh we've done a bunch of Beatles ones, Kinks. Um who else? Um the band. We actually got G Hudson, the original keyboard player from the band to show up and he's he passed away, I think now, but this is several years ago, like seven years ago. Um he came and just, you know, blew it away. It was incredible. So, you know, things like that. So, and and they're, you know, we do we used to do them at the uh the uh Alex Theater in Glendale, which is goodiz theater and that. So,

44:49but yeah, just having that many people and then when they bring their guests so backstage ends up being like 200 people and I'm kind of

45:00in charge of that, not getting too out of control and stuff like that. So, anyways, but a lot of people put a lot into it. I'm I'm not I don't make it all happen. That's for sure. I just on the day I make things go smoothly which

45:17So, and and that feels good too. It just feels good again around great music and stuff and it's fall, you know, nobody's getting paid. Um but it's really fulfilling to give back, so to speak.

45:31Well, um I know Cosmo's great. He's a great musician. So, I figured we'll be chiming in.

45:40Oh, yeah. We're getting some some really sweet some really sweet love from from different people. Uh Denise Whitfield, by the way, John C is such a great guy.

45:49Um yeah, thank you all for joining us.

45:53The Bangles uh uh Facebook fan, a real the one that's been around for for years, Return Post, which she does a great job at. The funny thing is I see all my pictures. So, I was one that took pictures back in the 80s, right? And

46:08and uh the web master way back when took my whole photo album, scanned every picture. So, my I've se I go, "Wait a minute, that's my p I took that. That's my picture." That comes up all the time. Not just there, but it it pops up everywhere. Um so, it's kind of funny. So, I guess I shared it with the world without knowing that's what was going to happen. So, anyways, but yeah, Denise is great, too. What else you got? Um, so Dusty is actually asking if you have any Spinal Tap slonyhendra type stories or Oasis like infighting siblings type stories or anything like that that you

46:45can share.

46:48No. Well, I actually have a real Spinal Tap stories. Um, my friend Deborah Dokin was uh slated to play drums with Spinal Tap at uh what was that? The inner um one of the theaters. It was a um uh women's choice type event and Sean Culvin and but Spinal Tap was one of them. It's kind of unplugged and heart um the girls from heart and and Nancy were there as well.

47:20So um and Deborah Deborra actually was going to play with both of them. But anyway, so those the guys, the three guys show up in in costume in in character, never broke character, and it was hilarious. It was just hilarious to [laughter] hang with them and uh be the drum tech for Spinal Tap for five

47:39Um [clears throat] but uh not not really. You try to avoid all those those things that fighting. nobody I've ever worked with fought with each other. and I' I make sure if if my crew is not getting along, I straighten them out right away, you know, as we can't have that, you know.

48:09So, but no. Um, I mean, yeah, some me getting yelled at by somebody and me saying you don't get to do that,

48:19that happened. Do you want That's a good story. Again, I'm not going to bring up names because I don't want to out anybody. And and the person is incredible artist. Incredible. Incredible artist. I just

48:29I I don't take crazy, you know.

48:33Or or just things that don't make sense that are in

48:44pretty smooth, you know.

48:45Yeah. I did a I did a a three-month tour with Belinda Carlile and uh it was basically her and I in a van and then the band and crew and uh in another van and uh it was great. We she's really sweet. Um very smart and I had [clears throat] to get I had to give her something to do because we had long drives and and I so I said I said do me a favor and navigate. She Oh, I'd love to. which is like, you know, so I because I was driving a van, I didn't have my car with the the GPS thing in

49:20there, so we had to use our phones and uh so she and she was a great navigator. So, and that gave her something to do other than stare out the window and stuff, but uh yeah, she was great great great to play work with and and great performer and and stuff, too. So, that was cool. Yeah, I I've turned down stuff that I know I wouldn't like to do, and that's a nice u thing to be able to do sometimes, but not always. But I, like I said, I'd rather not do anything than do something I'm not going to enjoy. So, no matter Yeah. And and in this life,

49:58another thing that I learned early on is save your money because there are rainy days, rainy rainy months, even rainy years. like I'll look at my income and I'll go, "Oh, wow. That was a bad year." But you survive because you you save money from the good years, you know.

50:17And uh

50:23Any other good questions from people?

50:26Oh, they're all great questions. They're all great questions. Um well there's actually one that says um um as running as someone having run security you must have um had some crazy situations throughout the years. Um can you talk about some of the craziest situations that you've had to diffuse?

50:45I would love to. So [clears throat] I had many actually. Um some were kind of ended up kind of funny. Um first one that pops to my head is Bangles. We're in Iowa in A as Iowa playing the college because Ames is not a big metropolitan city we're and and so we had our tour buses and we're we're a basically more like a motel and uh I'm checking and and I see college kids age kids I don't know if they're college kids but you know five or six guys trying to look in the windows and up and find out where the Bangles are cuz our

51:28tour buses are right there so they know we're there. So I decide to confront him and uh I just w there's like five of them and I just walked up and I go, "Excuse me, are uh are you gentlemen?" That's the exact you gentleman staying in the in the I call it a hotel. Staying in the hotel? They go, "Yeah." I go, "Well, I need to see your keys." And they go uh I go I go without missing a beat. So, that's what I thought. I go I go, I'm going to I'm going to do you guys a favor. I go, I've already called the cops, which I hadn't. I've already

52:02called the cops. I'm guessing you got five minutes, 10 minutes to get out of here. So, I'm doing you a favor and letting you know that. Otherwise, you're going to be arrested for trespassing and for peeping into windows [clears throat] and I'll try to keep it clean, but they're like, "Yeah, who the [ __ ] are you? What are you going to do?" Like, and I go I go, "Well, I'll tell you what." I go, "There's five of you. There's one of me." I go, "I promise you if this goes down, at least three of you are going to the hospital."

52:32You're going to get me because there's five of you, but I promise you three of you go into the hospital before that happens. So, stop talking and let's do

52:41They walked away. And I go, "That's what I thought." But I took a chance cuz, you know, I [clears throat] they're like I made them think like, "What does this guy know that we don't know? or is or I don't want to get hurt, you know, but [clears throat]

52:58so um that was a good one. Um again, I could have got killed, of course, but uh a funny one was it was Chenade. It was a smaller theater. It was at a school, I Trying to remember. was a odd gig, but it was a theater. But no, it wasn't the school, but um like five guys get on the stage at once,

53:25And it's just me, right? They got past. So there's guys, there's always security guys in front of the stage, right? These guys who like watching the show. So these guys hopped up, right? All all at once. So and I just go, "Here we go." So I just ran out. I started I just put a football block in every one of them one at a time, right? I knocked them all off the stage. It took me like a minute or so and then I after the show there's a knock on the door to the backstage dressing area and uh I answer and uh Chenade's assistant answer and she goes, "Oh, it's the guys

54:07that were on stage. They wanted to apologize, right? And I go I go, "Shenade," I go, "The guys had jumped on stage." She goes, "Yeah, let them in." I go, "You serious?" [laughter] So, we did. And they were like, "We're sorry. We just were having fun." I said, "Yeah, it's cool." I guess hope nobody got hurt, you know, but not not a bright thing to do, you know, cuz somebody like another security guy, you've seen them, you've seen the clips, they knock people out or they hurt them badly. And then the last one was uh again back in the Bangles days uh Summerfest Milwaukee big

54:38stage big tall stage at least 12 feet I think. Um, and uh I'm in my position stage stage left just you know hanging in the in the behind stuff out of the out of the way but there if any anything happens and I look over and I see this big guy out of control being dra dragging uh one of the one of the lighting guys or PA guys the the guys that helped set everything up a smaller guy. He's got him around the ankle and he's he's dragging him and he and that. So then I start heading out and I'm it's a big stage so I'm kind of far away but

55:17I start running out and this guy's bigger than me, right? And he's he's got to be on something because he's crazy. He's running straight for Susanna. I run out and I drove hard body block into him and all it did was stop him, right? And then he bounced it like a few feet. And then I I got my wind and when I did another one, I knocked him off the stage, which is 12 feet. I knocked him off the stage because he was this close. He was this close to getting to Susanna. And if he hit the microphone stand or whatever, she's going down.

55:48I get I go to the side of stage and I look down and I see this guy and and the security guys at this at Summerfest, that's a lot of them are cops, offduty cops, right? want to make extra money. and they're kind of jerks actually to be honest with you, but that's neither here nor there. Um, so, uh, I looked down and this guy's beating the [ __ ] out of these

56:14So, he was on he was on something

56:17but he was a big like farm boy, right? But I was like, "Okay, there's another one I dodge because this guy, you know, if he's beating these guys up and it's just me, you know, if we're we're wrestling or punching out on the stage is stupid to begin with." But so I was just glad I could knock him off the stage. But uh yeah, there's a bunch of the hardest one, too. One um another Chenade thing in Portland. Uh end of the show, the stage goes dark and then before coming out for the encore um this girl gets on stage, big girl and she's like yelling chenade chenade

56:57and it's nobody's on stage but all the gear is and guitars and every you know everything. So I grab her, but I just put my arms, you know, around her, trying to get her into like a easy headlock, which is what I normally would do, but it was a girl. I didn't want to like hurt her, but she was pretty strong. And again, a larger girl. And all I could I didn't want to throw her off the stage. So all I did was I I just kind of took and bulldoged her through to the backstage. And there's security guys back there. And there's stage the

57:30door to go outside. And I just get her in the head of the a push bar. So I just pushed her in the push bar and got her out, shut the door. I look at the security guys and go, "Thanks a lot. Great job, guys." You know, they just stood there. Didn't do anything, you

57:44So yeah, those are, you know, I I would I I tried to add it up one time. It's like 50 60 times that I had to get

57:51you know.

57:53Um again, one time a guy ran on stage just goofball, right? I get him in a soft headlock. I walk him over. I go, "All right, that was funny. Now, don't you know, just don't do it again." And I hand him off. And uh 10 minutes later, he's he's running out of stage again, right? Again, a big stage, so it wasn't like anything tight, but I ran out. I put him in a not so nice headlock, gave a little squeeze. I said, "That's it. You're done." you know, and I

58:22thrown out but you know um more a funny story that's not anything but um Chenade didn't understand why people wanted autographs first of all but

58:36I told her and and it's a thing she even repeated to me not too long ago when I was talking to her. I used to tell her one means 100, right? If you're going to stop to sign an autograph, you might have to sign a hundred because people are going to see that you're open to it. Or to airport sit around. She goes, "Jan, will you get me some coffee?" I go, "I can, but if I leave, people are going to put an autograph." And a bunch of other people do. You're signing every one of those autographs. You okay with that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll be fine. I go. So I go get the

59:14coffee. I come back. She's surrounded.

59:17I stood there with the coffee with the biggest grin on my face. She didn't get I told you. And then so from then on, she never asked me to go get a coffee again. [laughter] It's like it's like do a bad job of of washing the dishes. You'll never get asked to wash dishes again. You know,

59:32this is true. This is true.

59:35But that was kind of a funny story. But anyways, um

59:38I imagine that you really have to think on your feet. Like you really have to be able to assess situations and think very

59:45Yeah. In in every aspect of of the music business, honestly, like if you're a guitar tech, you have to if you see something, you need to take care of it right away. Or if you see a mic like even now like we did Kaboo and Susanna's mic stand because those things those festivals are a nightmare for for bands and you don't get a sound check and you just kind of get a line check and

1:00:07and you kind of rely on stage hands that are doing stuff and

1:00:11you try to check as much as you can but uh like Suzan's my stance like you know drooping and stuff so you got to run out. is you gota if you don't get it they're like looking why isn't anybody helping me you know so you run get it

1:00:25tighten it real quick and then you you're run off um I had to do that cuz I still as a tornado I stage watch and [clears throat] and again through through all the years um Debbie didn't want anybody else tuning her drums or doing her drums and the funny thing is I'm not a real drummer I can I can do drums to to check drums I can do a beat and a little roll and and you know be funny, but uh tuning drums is an art, but it's one I just taught myself. I didn't like read books on it or what do I do? I just know what sounds right and

1:00:59I know kind of a you know and and I had my own idea on what drums should sound like. Anyways, but um we're touring Japan with uh Okay Go, this band Okay Go, which really fun band, great videos. Um, and the drummer came up to me. He's like, "Can you can you teach me how to tune my drums?" I'm like, "Dude, you're a drummer." Serious? And you probably been playing drums since you were a little kid. I'm not a drummer. I just But yeah, I'll show you what I do. It might not work for you, you know? And uh, so I do, you know, but a lot a lot of guys don't.

1:01:35You start with the bottom heads, right? A lot of guys don't do that,

1:01:38you know. That's where you start. And if you don't, you're just you're fighting a battle. And then snare drum is a trick of just I tighten the top head as tight as it'll go. Put a little patch of uh a little patch of tiny cloth and calf in one little corner and it's it goes from this ting sound to this snap but with a nice deep deep tone to it. So it's it's simple but it's you know

1:02:04this trial and error which I did through but I tune drums for 25 years you know. So, but again, it's not something I I go out like, "Yeah, let me do that." You know, somebody needs it, I'll do it, you

1:02:17Yeah. Once you once you're tour managing, you're kind of like try not to do the that kind of stuff because you're too much going on anyways. But we did one tour where I had to tour manage, drive, take care of merch, guitar tech, drum tech, and play percussion. So, I played percussion with the Bangles for seven years, eight years until they decided no more boys in the band at one point because we had a keyboard player too, uh, Harpo for many years. Um, so I decided, that's kind of my idea. I said, "You guys should go back to being a garage band, you know,

1:02:55not this, we sound like the record band or or especially like the hits with all the keyboards and strings and this and that." I go, "You're a garage band. You're like the best garage band ever, you know, with great vocals." So they kind of did and uh but I was out which was fine because [clears throat] you know I was still tour managing but I'm playing I'm on stage playing percussion during during shows which the only time it was really great was uh we did Hard Rock Calling in London at in Hyde Park opening for the well we were the band before the police

1:03:26and uh um that's a funny story too because we got there the night before tour bus pulls up to the venue. We weren't supposed to be there, but we did. And uh uh Vicki and I started drinking, right? And uh Vodka Tonics.

1:03:43And they had like little cups like this, right? But they had like the beer the beer ones, right? So I she goes, "Would you like?" I go, "It's a tent. It's a backstage tent, right? So just, you know, party place." So I grabbed the big cup like you're drinking right there. I said, "Uh, vodka tonic." Right. And uh so I had like a couple two three of those and jet lag and no sleep and but I got sick all over my my hotel room

1:04:20and this isn't like late at night and then the next day you have to get there early and you're there all day but you're like you know you get your riser set up and this and that but um and it's on it's all on film, Right. So, but anyways, I got to play in front of like 100,000 people and I got introduced and I'm like going I have a million music musician friends that would have been dying to be on a stage in this in front of this many people and here's me who's nobody playing nothing, you know, gets to do it. But there's you can see me on

1:04:50film because it's the whole thing was filmed. Um I'm sitting on the side of stage going like this cuz I tore my throat was like razor blades from

1:04:59being sick. So yeah, and I relive it when I see it. I'm like, and it was was so painful and and I'm not a big drinker, so it was like one time out of a million, you know, if that happened. But so yeah, that was sort of a mistake, but again, you know, kind of a cool moment that I made it through, so so to speak. So anyways,

1:05:24uh so um getting some love from um Nick Guzman Guzman, I think. Oh yeah. Yeah. Nick is great. He's a great musician. Um great guy. And uh his mom who is a beautiful person, beautiful human being. Um uh passed away a few years ago and she she was his everything. But he's he's marching on. He's just a great guy, great singer, great musician, writes and he's uh I believe he was nonverbal as a child. um autism. Um but he's he's amazing. He really is amazing.

1:06:05Um nobody I mean he sings incredibly and he's he's a musical savant. He really is. He's plays every instrument. Um in pitch on key every every thing he sings. So he's you know one of those guys. U but yeah and just a great guy and a great family. So hey Nick. Awesome. Yay. Yeah. Um, also, um, Maybelline 74 and Aaron Curtain, um, saying, "John captured some amazing Bangles backstage memories over the decades. We're all

1:06:42Um, yes, [laughter]

1:06:45the Detroit girls. Yeah. Yeah. Good friends. [clears throat] And And I was I actually, as a security or even tour manager, I I made friends with the fans just because why not,

1:06:56you know? Mhm.

1:06:56And I would go, you know, before a show or whatever, I'd go down the crowd and just chat with them and and yeah, there's good dozen of them that are we still keep in touch and are friends and stuff, you know. Why not? You know, you never have

1:07:10But and they're all good people and stuff, so

1:07:13Uh Nick is saying, "Thank you, John, for giving me and my mom a shout out. I miss her so much."

1:07:19Of course. Me, too. Um, Maybelline74 is asking, "As a tour manager, um, what was a really challenging request from an artist that you had to fulfill?" Oh, that's a tough one. Um, well, the well, the the hardest which was outdoor stage at a winery somewhere in Northern Northern California. Uh, it was so maybe it was East Coast. I can't No, it was East It was somewhere. I think it was East Coast. Um, it was so hot and blistering hot, like near 100 degrees, whatever. And they just had like these little stage fans and stuff and and uh I I just know the girls were like

1:08:14miserable. And I go, I'm like, "Can we need It's too hot up there." I go, "Do whatever I can, you know?" And I I one of the few times I I got I lost it because I was hot, sweaty, and trying to just do what I could to make the stage liveable for the the set they were going to do. And uh yeah, I was like and they brought this giant fan that literally was would blow people just off the stage. I go, "Okay, that's not working. Just what do you have just some good small, you know, fans we can put on everybody just to, you know, keep a

1:08:45little air moving?" So that was a challenge. And and we really didn't. It was just miserable. Everybody was just sweating and there's nothing we could do. So that was a challenge that I could not you couldn't say yeah could you turn the air conditioning up or turn the sun down or whatever [laughter] just it is what it is and but you you know you still are to you know need to

1:09:06being asked to make it different. So yeah that was that's the only time I can think of. Um I mean there's times where like I can't hear myself. I can't that's pretty typical right you know.

1:09:16Yeah. Um, so but those are like you run over and you tell the monitor guy this, this, and this. And then if it's still not right and and then like the girls use uh wedges for years and years and they decided to try in ears

1:09:36and never really worked for them you know and and I said yeah I said it doesn't work for everybody and it shouldn't doesn't have to you know you keep trying and to have one in one ear and one out is kind of defeating the purpose too you know but I guess And so there was always that kind of, you know, struggle to get

1:09:57what they need to hear on stage or somebody's playing too loud or whatever, you know,

1:10:02trying to just get things like that. So yeah, that's like I say, you're the dad. You're they come to you with everything, you know. They don't go to the sound guy, can you do this? They go to me and say, can you take care of this or can you fix this or whatever. So

1:10:14but that's the job, you know, and you you either love it or you hate it. If you hate it, don't do it, you know. So

1:10:20yeah. Yeah.

1:10:23Um, Pudge the band is asking, "Do you think we will get another Bangles tour?

1:10:29Very doubtful." Um, I I think I mean, never say never, and I can't speak for the girls, but yeah, I mean, everybody's kind of doing their thing. Susanna's doing a bunch of stuff. She wrote a book. She's writing movie script. She's uh I think she might be working on a second book and she's also doing a lot of shows here and there. She's going to do a short tour with Billy Idol. She's doing a a week almost a week at the Carile Hotel in New York um like a residency thing. Um and she does a lot of shows at Largo

1:11:08um with different fun guests and things like stuff like that. Vicki is Vicki and her husband John Cowill are going all over the country doing uh shows. Uh they did a record with John's one of the cows and his brothers wrote a bunch of songs that didn't really get a lot of attention or even recorded. So they decided to, you know, do a kind of an album of those and did and it's really great and and they they're great together. They've always been great together. Um, and it's a fun fun great show. And uh they both sing like birds and and uh and she'll do and Vicki will

1:11:45do a few bang songs here and there. And uh and then Debbiey's Debbiey's uh moved out of LA, but she was doing stuff with uh Peter Buckm and uh Scott McCoy um up there and uh uh and recording some stuff here and there too. So, everybody's kind of busy doing doing different things. And and I mean, if the Bangles ever get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, then you probably see them play together. There's nothing like, "Oh, we hate each other." It's just a we're we're we've done this. We could keep playing the songs, you know, a million times. I mean, they were

1:12:24together since 99 until they're still together. Not really broken up, but um way longer than they were the first first time around. it was 81 one or two to 89. So, um that's a testament itself to the you know and uh yeah we we had a lot of fun in in those days. Um so and then um I want to give a shout out to this uh another charity thing we do that I do work with is Joey Song in uh Madison, Wisconsin. It's once a year uh event. It's usually two, three nights and um it's it's raising money for uh childhood epilepsy.

1:13:05And Mike GML, who who it's his baby, he had a a 5-year-old son Joey who had epilepsy and passed away.

1:13:15So he started doing I think just getting friends. He was in he worked in bars and and bars that I used to mix out in back in Madison because Madison's just 45 minutes hour away from Rockford. um many years. Um so he worked in you know so he's he's friends with Butch Vig who's uh drummer in garbage and and produced Nirvana and a few other things and uh so they started doing stuff and and it got bigger and bigger and I just came on board about like four years ago now um because they were asking if Debbie could come and I said yeah I said but I have

1:13:50to come too you know that kind of thing. So, um, and then because of my experience, I ended up I've been sort of backstage managing and stage managing that. And, uh,

1:14:03Yeah. We get last year we got, uh, uh, what's his face? Johnny Resnick from the Goooo Dolls. Um, we had a bunch of drummers. We had, uh, um, Stacy Jones, who's great. Um, De, but Debbie didn't come last year. She couldn't. Um, but Vicki did, and Vicki and De Debbie did it the year before. and debuted it the year before that. Um, and uh, Matt Sorum and we had Hugo from uh, the King of Four. Um, bunch of drummers and uh, uh, uh, K. Hanley from Alerts to Cleo. Um, we had uh Gina and uh Jane from the Go. So, it's just a bunch of fun great

1:14:55people and and there's a one night it's more acoustic and and some Q&A stuff and then the next night's full band and everybody doing doing their thing and then kind of a battle of bands between boys and girls. So it's it's and the the camaraderie is is incredible and the group of people that work behind it and

1:15:16and the it's just really well well done and raised I know last year was a down year because we lost a lot of sponsors because of

1:15:26what's going on in the country financially and stuff and a lot of sponsors were kind of pulled back because fi you know money's a little tighter but um the year before I think we did over half a million.

1:15:36Wow. includ includes sponsorship and

1:15:40uh a lot of uh

1:15:43auction stuff like that but but also selling tickets and this and that but

1:15:49last year we actually did a little over I think almost 350,000 which for not having sponsors was

1:15:56pretty good too. So, and we're always trying to add people and we had uh what's his name? Uh from Eve 6, he was great. Max, he was great. Everybody's great and yeah,

1:16:08great music and but just

1:16:11the camaraderie is just ridiculous. Like all the girls in one dressing room, right? There's like 15 of them and they're just all having a blast, you know? So, it's

1:16:19it's another labor of love that ends up

1:16:23more fun than it should be probably and more just yeah, it's just I wouldn't not want to go, you know. So,

1:16:31So, we do that every year and again this year and I'm trying to wrangle in some, you know, big big names too because that's what you need to really, you know, who are like, "Hey, can you get Paul McCartney?" go. Well, I know his band, but I don't know him, and I'm pretty sure he's probably going to want to come to Madison, Wisconsin in January where it's, you know, 10 degrees out or, you know, he's got other things to do. But, so, yeah, we're always trying to get, you know, bigger names and I'm I'm working on I've got many connections and some of my friends do, too. So, um, and

1:17:06again for your show, if you need people that are in the the, um, this side of the business of of touring and stuff, um, I've got a great friend from it, but he's really busy, too. But Brian Key, who um, has worked with The WHO for a long long time, but he also does tours at Abbey Road. He's written books. uh he's a he's just like a genius guy that's in the business that's been on the you know on the road for for forever and ever um as well. So let me know

1:17:39Yes, absolutely.

1:17:40if you want me to recommend a few people. He's he's the one that comes to

1:17:43as as a guy probably got some stories that you know would

1:17:47would amaze your your fans and stuff too. So

1:17:51yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Yeah. Um well, we did have a few more questions. Um yeah, sure, go ahead.

1:17:58Uh so, um you've lived a life that seems to be truly unique and had a chance to be around a lot of iconic artists. Um can you talk a bit about what you think it is about those artists that makes them so magnetic and iconic? Um do you think there's something that separates them from other artists? number one. [laughter] But I mean, yeah, there's a charisma that some people have. Um, I would have to say, well, one one of the the incredible times, too, um, Angles did the International Rock Awards in New York. I think it was 88 or ' 89. And it was I'm sitting in a room and

1:18:40with everybody I grew up listening to in the room. Seriously, it was like I'm sitting actually sitting on a couch with Alice Cooper, right? Who's sweet, sweet, great guy. And I look over and there's um a couple makeup hair and makeup chairs and Susanna's in one and Keith Richards is in the other. Right.

1:19:00And then I look over here and there's Tina Turner, Eric Clapton, David Bowie, gez, who else? Grace Jones, she was crazy. Um so, uh Robert Palmer, all these people that especially like, you know, Bowie and Clapton and all these people, you know, that I grew up listening to. I'm going I look around and go and and I never like try to be like amazed or I don't bother people or whatever. I just I just I looked at Alice and I go this is pretty cool. [laughter] So So that was one of those moments where you're like,

1:19:38"Okay, who gets to do this too, you know, to just hang out in a room and watch these people in their just hanging out, right? They were and they were all like interested in talking to each other and just too. So, I actually have a folder on my computer that I just like called name dropping 101 and all the people I've met and there's

1:20:02whole one of actors and things like that because I met a million of them [clears throat] through Susanna a lot but just you know through the years

1:20:09and uh

1:20:11um and those musicians and and it's just I'm just doing it for myself to see how like stupid I can get. is like, "Oh, and I forgot about meeting that person, that person." So, it's, you know, when you, like I say, when you're around this many years, you you're going to meet a lot of them and stuff. And uh and then just doing tours, we toured with Pat Vanitar um in Australia and uh and bands like I I loved before touring with them and being friends with like the Huda Gurus, this band from Australia. They're just like killer and have been for decades. And and uh I was

1:20:44still I still see them. I saw him play it a few years ago at the Elray and it was just like packed, you know, and they're they've been doing it since they've been doing it since the 80s, too, you know. So,

1:20:54Um, yeah, it's just again, like I say, if you love music and you want to be around it, it's a good way to go. You just have to you have to work hard. It's work. It's not like it's not playtime. It's work. But if you enjoy your work, it's not work,

1:21:09you know? So, It also seems like you have to be like really flexible and adaptable and be able to just sort of learn new things as you go.

1:21:20Oh, absolutely. And you have to not be afraid to, right? Yeah.

1:21:25I'll try and fix anything around the house because they go, "Well, I'll try. I'm going to try, you know." And I go, "Oh." Or like computers. Like I'm hor I'm latecomer to computers, right? was um but I'll figure out stuff on my computer that other people who know computers can't quite figure out only because I go I'm going to try this. I'm going to look for this and you know I'm not afraid to ask you know. Yeah. So

1:21:51but yeah. Yeah. Like I said drum tech I I had never drum matter of fact keyboard player on the tour Suzanna's tour. I go look I'm your keyboard tech but I don't know [ __ ] about keyboards. So if anything goes down you're going to have to fix it. He thought [laughter] he just thought that was funny. He just thought that was funny. And he he's great. He's great, too. Paul Trudeau. Um he uh he's been played he played for years with Billy Billy Idol. Um but he played with uh Melissa Ethridge, I think, and uh few other people. But another funny story is we're on the road and he looks he looks

1:22:26just like Nigel Tuff from Spinal Tap, right? He did back then. He just like him, right? And the two of us are out to breakfast. We're doing laundry on the road on the Henley [clears throat] tour and having breakfast and he looks and he goes, "You know, you're a lot smarter than you look like you ought to be, right?" And I just thought that was the funniest thing anybody's ever said to me. And I just I quit back. I said I said that's funny because you're not. That's me. Smart ass. Yeah. Try out smartass me. It's gonna It's not going to be easy to do because I'll I'm not

1:22:57I'll keep coming. But uh that was pretty funny. So Um, we had another question um from Pete Russo. Um, were there any tours you worked that you took solely for the income but ended up being a core memory of your life, if that makes sense? Um, I mean the the tour with the person who I'm not mentioning that I I did several tours

1:23:28were all pretty difficult and I kept saying I'm not doing this again.

1:23:33Um, but they would beg me to do it. They love me blah blah blah until I told them I'm not putting up their [ __ ] But

1:23:42you know, um

1:23:44and uh so in that regards, but they they would beg me and again it was really really good money, you know.

1:23:53Um but it was it was more work than any other tours I had done.

1:23:58So I earned it for sure.

1:24:00But uh and and I again I enjoyed the music. Loved music. Loved that part of it. But the rest of it, um, and even you're dealing with, you're not just dealing with artists, you're dealing with the road crew, too. So, you're in charge of all that. So, I've had a few road crew people that I want to just throw through a window.

1:24:19Especially if if if I hired somebody, then that's different, right? But I'm just jumping on a tour and I have this is who I have, you know, and uh I have actually tried to get people fired. I said, "This this person is just making my life and making the other road crew guys' life miserable." And one one uh the artist wanted said, "Fine, let's get let's get somebody else." And but the manager was like, "No, you know, he we we know he he does what he does and does it well." I go, "I know a dozen guys that could do this job just as well

1:24:56that are actually really great to be around." So, it can be a little little difficult in in that. So, but I know and and I've just done little like um like goofy little tours like Judith Owen who's great. She's Harry Sheer's wife, right? She's Welsh, funny as they come, super talented, great piano player, great singer, just great. but she's, you know, doesn't have a big following, a huge following. But, uh, um, it it wasn't, it was the easiest tour I've ever done. It was just her, I, and Lelandclar, who's like very famous bass player who big long white beard and stuff, played with 8 million people. Um,

1:25:44it's just three of us, and it was first class. It was $70 a day per DM, you know, $3,500 a week. And uh the the gear was a a a little Pelican case with a a piano modeler um that you plug in and her wired in ears. That was

1:26:08Just carried [clears throat] his bass. That was it. So no gear, no anything. Every place had a piano or or if they had, you know, keyboard, we'd plug this in and they would use it. Um, and we we did the whole all over the US and stuff and she has very famous friends as well. So, it was kind and interesting. Um, and uh, yeah, it was just the three of us. So, it was it was just a laugh. It was a blast, you know.

1:26:35so, uh, so that was good money, but it was the easiest easiest gig I ever had, I have to say.

1:26:42So, yeah, that I would do I would do over again a million times, you know. Um, yeah. the Yeah, the only And Blinda was great. That was fun. Um, who else? I just did a few shows here and there for some people like Shelby Lynn who's so talented and a character. I love her. Um, but she asked me to there was a tour she was doing with a bunch of other artists and she didn't want to ride in the bus, right? They were going all over all over the US. It's a bunch of other not countryish. I can't remember who the other artists were. She's not really country. She's

1:27:20just a singer songwriter. That's incredible. Um she asked if I would just rent a car and and the two of us would follow the bus all over the country and I'm like there's no way I'm driving around this entire country in a car at, you know, at this stage of my career. I go, I love you, but no. and there's a bus going. Just get on the bus. [clears throat]

1:27:47But so that was one of the times I turned it down, you know. I didn't even it didn't even come to talk about money. I'm sure it wasn't would have been that great anyways because it's

1:27:55it was, you know, doing much of that. But um she's great. I would I would work with her any time other than that, you

1:28:02So yeah, you get asked to do some things, you know. I actually just got asked if I'd be interested in uh doing tour managing a bad company, which I said, "Yeah, Paul Rogers and Simon Kirk were in a band." Yeah, but it's not. It's It's all guys that have played in it, but those guys aren't in it. And so there's no originals and I go, "No." Yeah, Paul Rogers. I'd do it for free. Paul Rogers was, you know, in bad company. That's a great singer. He is, you know, I love his his singing. Um, so yeah, you know, you just get stuff like that and you know, but you know, like I

1:28:38say, if you save your money, you can pick and choose. You can't just go, "Yeah, I need the money. I'll do it even though I hate it."

1:28:46Um, that's my biggest advice to anybody in the business is save your money whenever you make it.

1:28:51If you have a good run,

1:28:53save it.

1:28:55Live live comfortably. But, you know, just know that you may have months and a year without working, you know, if you really want to stick to what you want to do or you'd have to go get a a real job. Selling insurance is my only real job

1:29:13And uh and I I would never go back to anything like that ever.

1:29:21Yeah. Yeah. I mean, especially h having gosh lived such an amazing life with so many It's rich. It's a very rich life.

1:29:29And to see And to see the world. I I love travel, right? To see the world and get paid to do it.

1:29:37It's ridiculous. Yeah. It really is. Um ridiculous ridiculously great. You know, like I say, flying the Concord was like an it's like being in a rocket ship, you know, and it's just it's and they you can't do it anymore. They don't have unless they're do another supersonic ship, but they just don't. I mean, from New York to London in three hours, something like

1:30:00So, yeah, that was that was one of the like, wow, I can't believe I'm doing this moments and and uh have had many. But yeah, like I say, you have to keep keep a even keel while you're touring. Otherwise, you can just get burned out. So, and I I try not if I have somebody asked me to do a tour if it's like 6 months, I'm not, you know, unless it's somebody I love, you know, if the Bangles are doing six months, yeah, I'll do it. You know, but if it's just somebody like, "Yeah, we're doing a six-month tour. It's great pay this and that.

1:30:40not not at that stage in my life, you know, not a teenager, but I did the riding in a van all over the country tours, you know, I paid my dues and we did shows. We did shows in those days when we did five, six shows with the Ramones, which was, you know, like early Ramones, like it was those were like experience like like none other and stuff like that. So,

1:31:03yeah. Yeah, I've had a good life. I've had a great life. How do you stay even even killed like when things get really stressful or

1:31:13so that's kind of so I have a temper of course I'm Italian so again piss me off you'll find out but for the most part

1:31:22like I say when they say the coolest guy in the room or the you know so even who was it uh Susanna somebody just said whenever I'm with you there's a sense of calmness and that that makes makes it easier for me kind of thing. So

1:31:42yeah, there's there's being calm and then uh even like situations come up like I've my uh my sound guy like freak out over something and stuff. I go, "Dude, it's no big deal." Like I'm supposed to have a drum riser that's this tall and you know, I said, "Dude, it's fine. It'll be fine." Yeah, but I want you, you know, worried that he, you know, he didn't do his job. I go, I know you. I know what you asked for it. They don't have it or we don't have it. We'll be fine, you

1:32:14kind of thing. So, just um

1:32:17Yeah. Well, people are freaking out around you. You just have to go,

1:32:20dude. It's okay, you know.

1:32:24But yeah, that's I guess it's just who I am. I don't know. There's not like anything I try like, oh, I have to be like this or that. It's just who I am. I guess [clears throat] um and like you like you were mentioning I worked with a lot of women. I respect women very highly. I respect their talent. They're just who they are as people. And uh that helps a lot too cuz um and and you know that's how I was raised and that's how how I feel. So um and again not not I don't try to like be bossy to anybody you know.

1:32:58Yeah. um and just treat people how you'd want to be treated. And I think that's a su it's anything you do. You could be a lot more successful. Yeah. You have to get tough sometimes or make decisions, but you don't have to do it be a jerk about it, you know. solid solid wisdom because I feel like, you know, for people that want to, you know, that really want this to be able to work,

1:33:24you know, and obviously it served you for 50 years like you were saying. Yeah. You've been able to have like a successful career.

1:33:31Yeah, absolutely. And uh I could I like I say I could have done a lot more but I just pick and choose you know and uh that's an also that's a luxury but again um that you know again if you've done it this many years you do have that choice and uh yeah to to make a really good living and uh love 99% of it. Who gets to say that right?

1:33:59So that's amazing. Yeah.

1:34:01Yeah. But you have you have to love music too because if you just do it because you you know it's a business and I want to make money, you're not going to last because people are going to realize you just you don't care. You care about yourself instead of care about the artists or the people that work for I treat crew as well as I do an artist too, you know, that's important. Um make sure they're comfortable, they're happy, blah blah blah, they're not, you know. So yeah, I guess little wisdom thrown out whether anybody takes it or not.

1:34:33Oh, it's always appreciated. Yes.

1:34:35Actually, I was I was curious about the album I'm seeing behind you. If you could tell me what that is.

1:34:42It's just a it's just a platinum album of uh the uh everything bangles everything album um which had eternal flame uh and all that on it. So,

1:34:56even though like the album before it um had uh Walk Like an Egyptian, if she knew what She Wants, um what was the other hit that they had off that had three three songs off that one, but yeah, this is so I I I was with them when that record was out, but I and I was with them before they recorded this one, but this was the only one Well, this isn't the only one because they recorded uh Sweetheart of the Sun and uh but they didn't get platinum records and I think this went double platinum at some point in fact. But

1:35:35Yeah. Which is a

1:35:38a minor perk if you know if you're around. But um Chenade had a bunch of them, right? And uh I was at her house. Um, she took me to she actually took me to uh took me to Dublin for a week of craziness with her just out of between tours between the US and and uh she actually paid my salary, flew me first class, paid for everything the whole time we were in Dublin. Then we went for three days to London to her house in Golders Green that she had before starting the European tour. And she had a whole pile of them, right? She goes,

1:36:14"You want these?" I go, "Yeah, it'd be nice, but they're yours." And how would I ever get them back to, you know, America, right, to uh I was still living in Rockford, you know, but but I wish I had, you know, because she's gone now. And who knows what she did with them. She probably she didn't she didn't care about that kind of stuff at all.

1:36:35She didn't care about being famous.

1:36:37She just didn't get it. And uh which is admirable, you know? She just wanted to be an artist. she didn't want to be a pop star or whatever, you know. So, and she had obviously, I don't know if you followed her at all, but she had a lot of issues later in life and stuff and um but yeah, she'd always reach out to me and just, you know, actually, you know, wanted me to help her stuff and I I tried, but [clears throat] uh

1:37:08Yeah. But um yes, it was a a chapter that's ended sadly unfortunately cuz it was you know just through the years just keeping in touch and but seeing her go through that was really tough. Again I don't know if you saw it but it was really rough. She was posting stuff was you know really crazy but um and I didn't know she had any health issues but apparently she had a a bad heart. So But yeah, to to even just live this long is is a a bonus, you know. Not that I'm that old, but you know.

1:37:44Um, so I've had too many too many friends recently, m music friends and stuff, and every day there's somebody new. But yeah, so it's it's the other tough part about it is it's like it's like having a not quite the same thing, but like having a dog, right? I love my dog. I rescued him. is four years old now and I'm like going I don't ever want you to age, right?

1:38:06Because I won't I don't want to be there the day that that you know you because dogs have short lives and stuff. So it's

1:38:12so it's that kind of thing. It's like [clears throat] um

1:38:15yeah you get those close relationships with people that you love and admire and

1:38:21you know just age and every health things is come into play. So stay healthy too. That's my other advice. I work out every day and just try to keep in shape and stay as healthy as I can. It's big part of of just being happy, too. So,

1:38:39Sorry, getting philosophical here with, you know, other stuff.

1:38:42No, other people.

1:38:43I love it. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's like I guess it's it is one of those things where it's like trying to I guess be as much um like live as much as you can while you have it. And to be able to love the people that you do and have those experiences while you can.

1:39:05I say [clears throat] I mean I try to be happy every day, you

1:39:10no matter what, you know,

1:39:12and I try to just if something if in business if issues come up I say deal with it right away. Get it off your plate. You know, that's how I live the rest of my life. Like, oh, here's a problem with whatever. Deal with it. get it off your plate. But you have to in in touring business, you know, problem comes up, it's got to be dealt with right away. So, it kind of that helped me in my personal life of just, you know, you procrastinate on something, it's going to bother you. It's be the back of your mind. I got to do this. I got this. You do it. Done.

1:39:45It's out of your mind.

1:39:46Yeah. And you're out of your mind. So, [laughter] yeah.

1:39:51Yeah. So that's another little little tidbit of

1:39:54of you know and I was going to get a nobody has business cards anymore but my business card would just say I get [ __ ]

1:40:06I get [ __ ] done like like the funny thing like Suzanne will go I want to get one of these guitars like 10 minutes later I go okay I got it lined up I got it well let me think about it six months later. Did you want No. Well, yeah, maybe I And you know, I got still lined up, but you know, it's like somebody asked me to do something, I pick up the phone and I do it right then. Yeah. You know.

1:40:32But that's once in a while. It's like, yeah, I didn't really mean right away. You do it right away. What else you got? Uh um [laughter] oh this is awesome. Um Nick Nick said um Eternal Flame is was uh one of my favorite songs along with Walk Like an Egyptian and If She Knew What She Wants.

1:41:02Um and Go ahead.

1:41:05Oh, go ahead.

1:41:06I was going to say like some of those songs, especially the Walk Like an

1:41:12Mhm. If you've heard it a thousand you don't really need to hear. And I guess I guess them playing it, you know, that's another thing, too. Like band a band has so many songs. They have a I mean, they have a huge catalog, but they're going to play those songs that people want for the most part that people want to hear, and it's just like once you've played it like a thousand times, it's like, okay, can we can we just do something else that we want to do? So there's that part of it too when you know a band of longevity like that. But uh

1:41:46Yeah. I I hate to say it's like yeah. Oh you it's great you get to hear the song of go [laughter] you know it's great to hear songs like that they when they dug up the the old songs first from the first EP and stuff like the really garage rock kind of cool stuff songs. That was like my my favorite period of of working with the Bangles. And I actually kind of went back to the garage and just, you know, rocked out these songs and sang them great. So, that's [clears throat] me. I'm I'm more of a rocker dude anyways.

1:42:16Yeah. Yeah.

1:42:17As I say, [clears throat]

1:42:21I love in the chat that people are are sharing that um um the philosophy that you shared about like just living each day as if it was your last. This is from Phoenix Jade. Um, and also Dusty Chalk sharing, you know, with our with our loved ones. Um, they have shorter lives, especially our fur babies, but ours are so enriched by having them in our lives that I, for one, wouldn't have it any other way.

1:42:46Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

1:42:48Yes. Yes. Yeah. But it is it is. It's almost more heartbreaking than friends,

1:42:53you know, weirdly, but it it it just kind of is. But, uh,

1:42:58yeah, I I totally agree. That's I've had dogs my whole life. Like a short period after losing a dog, I took a a break because it was that tough. But uh

1:43:10and I wanted to rescue so I did and got the best dog on the planet, I think. Well, um if there are any other questions in the chat, y'all, uh please feel free to drop them. um in the meantime and thank you for hanging out with us and um sharing your awesome questions. Um yeah,

1:43:37and if I check out if I check it out later and there's more things in the chat, I'll I might pop in and try to answer something. I can't promise, you know, if that's possible to do. Um, yeah. If

1:43:49I see somebody's question that was wasn't it was interesting that wasn't asked here, I'll uh I'll check it out because I'll I'm sure I'll look and look at wa watch it one time or part of a time to see how stupid I looked or whatever, you know.

1:44:03Not at all. I I really appreciate you taking the time to, you know, share your stories and your wisdoms. Like, I really appreciate it.

1:44:11Oh, yeah. Well, I appreciate that you're doing what you're doing, too, because it's uh it's interesting for people and it's it's nice. It's very nice.

1:44:19Well, I think it's amazing uh you know that you know you you started off like like not even knowing I imagine like if you could probably know from the very beginning like I'm going to be doing all these crazy adventures all over the world, right?

1:44:36Probably didn't know.

1:44:38No, [laughter] there's no way. Yeah.

1:44:39And and and like I said, when I quit my job to just do this, it was only be a couple weeks. I go, I don't care. I'm this is I'm I have saved money, had a house, not big payments, all this stuff, which you can do in Rockford easily. Very easily. Yeah. And it's not LA. But

1:44:58so I was going to be fine for a good year or so at least, you know, without if it didn't work. But uh yeah, the fact that and I had no idea what I was going to do after and they add the few weeks and and even for that I was only making I was making twice what the band was making. I was making $200 a week for those tour for that tour in a van. D we drove 13,000 miles in that in that tour. And uh the Bangles were cool. They would take our gear and then if we had a a day off and the girls were flying, they

1:45:28would let us all all but who was having to drive the the van. um take right on their bus which is very cool of them too at the time but uh

1:45:40but yeah no I had no idea what I was going to do and and I I don't know what I'm doing I know what I'm doing the next busier than I want to be so there you go but yeah yeah it's one of those jobs that it's not a job that

1:45:59I mean some I met like Tom Petty's people right tour manager had been with him for like day one and he's still with him, you know, until Tom passed away. so so there's some of that, but the most it's it's here and there, you know, jump from one to another or jump from one to nothing. So yeah, I had no idea. I just knew that this makes me happy, so keep doing it.

1:46:24Yeah, I love that. I think honestly that philosophy can be applied to anybody in any field.

1:46:30Exact. Yeah, exactly. That's why I throw it out there. It's like Well, and to to see so many of my friends like hate their jobs, right?

1:46:40I said, "I'm never going to do a job that I hate and I'm just not, you know, um I mean, I I have a degree in biology and chemistry, right?"

1:46:50Yeah. And then what? You know what I mean? Never used it, but

1:46:54But I'm glad I did it. you know, I had the college experience and I got a degree and um that's all I could do is say, "Yeah, I have it." But I, you know, I never used it. But but I al I did use the how to gain knowledge many ways cuz I didn't even read books. I didn't I didn't crack a textbook. I just went to classes and paid attention to to notes. So

1:47:20everybody does things differently, but that was my my way of learning and and uh fairly fairly knowledgeable I

1:47:30And it's worked for you.

1:47:32Yeah. Yeah. Even though I haven't I mean the only the only things you can use that for is trivia pursuit like the science questions and stuff. I I could I always knew the answer. So I was a good partner. Trivia,

1:47:43but anything else literature or any of the other stuff not so much.

1:47:50But uh

1:47:54oh um uh Nick is saying uh be sure to check out my song from my LP After all these years and Tom and Steven. Yes, we'll definitely check that out. Thanks for sharing that. [laughter]

1:48:07Well, do you have any um parting wisdoms for us?

1:48:11I think I'm out of wisdoms. [laughter] I'm exhausted.

1:48:14You've shared quite a few jobs. There's been some solid jams. See, let's see. But I do have some sayings. My sayings. Well, like I said with with the Chenade, one means 100, right? You

1:48:26Oh, yes. That's not really a philosophy. That's just a a a saying that Oh, walk a walk and talk. That's another one that I use all the time. Like people like you're trying to get out of somewhere or get the band somewhere and they're like stop to talk. I go walk and talk. Walk and talk. And then it's funny because Chenade when I saw her um it's been a few right before co actually picked her up at her hotel and drove her down to the belly up in uh Salana Beach um to do her show and we spent the whole ride talking and having a blast and

1:49:01catching up and uh she kept repeating all these things that I told her literally like what 1990 was 30 30 so 30 years ago. Right. And she that was still had she was repeating those things and I was just like that made me proud, you know, because I just [ __ ] I would say back then, you know, it was anything like I really thought about or anything. I just like just walk and talk or one means 100 just so you know.

1:49:29but uh no. Yeah, I guess I just say live it. Enjoy every day.

1:49:35that's it. If you if you're not,

1:49:38change something.

1:49:42Yeah. I I happen to be one of those weirdos that I don't get depression. Never had don't know what it even feels like anxiety. Don't know. Um which I'm again most people I do have some sort of this and that. So I just think I'm a little freakish in that way that um never had a suic suicidal thought

1:50:04ever, not once. Um, and uh, so I'm just grateful for that, you know.

1:50:12And I'm grateful I was I was raised well, you know, Midwest parents were teachers. Um, dad was like the guy that would help everybody. That's me. You know,

1:50:23people like, "Hey, can you help me move? Can you help me do this?" Yeah. You know, "Can you give me a ride to the airport?" Yeah. You know, be that guy.

1:50:31Because it because it works out.

1:50:33It comes back. Yeah. No,

1:50:35I can see that. Well, dear friends, um thank you again for for joining us for uh another episode of Unwritten Rules of the Road. John, thank you again for hanging out with us. This has been awesome.

1:50:52Absolutely. I I'd love to see your band one day if you're

1:50:56Yes. Yes. I will have to I'll have to share um our show coming up actually uh this coming weekend, but I'll let you know um about all the shows when we do

1:51:07All right. Sounds good.

1:51:08Yes. Awesome. Well, um thank you friends. Sending much love and hope you have a wonderful rest of your week. Um yes, we're we're um so Alice is playing um this coming weekend. Um, but we will be resuming Unwritten Rules of the Road in July.