Bellhead, in full

0:00together, right?

0:00It was Detroit. Um, not

0:03last year. Yeah. Yeah.

0:04Yeah. Last May we did.

0:09I know.

0:10So, it's been a year. [laughter]

0:12Yes. Yes. Yeah. First of all, congratulations on your award for threats. That's amazing, you guys. That's so awesome.

0:21Thank you. Yeah, that was that was a nice unexpected uh unexpected get. We um you know threats recently came out and um you know last year last year two years ago I don't know previously we put out Bad Taste on our music video and we had a couple like nominations and we've had you know it was it was screened before but this is like our first our first win so it's a first big day

0:44win anything for Bad Taste.

0:45We had like well we had we were selected and we were nominated. We were we were always the bridesmaid and uh never the bride [laughter]

0:54but that has changed. that has changed.

0:56Yes, exactly. Exactly. So, official win.

1:01That's so awesome.

1:02It was a hip-hop video. Yeah,

1:04we should have got that hip-hop music video. [laughter]

1:08So, does that mean you all get to come to Hollywood since this is a Hollywood

1:13Uh, sadly, we won't. It's not Yeah, we're not going to make it out there. But, um, but you know, we'll never say never. our our our director absolutely loves the uh the uh

1:25he loves the pomp and circumstance like this is such a thing for him and

1:30and we looked and we're like update your IMDb boy.

1:33Yeah, right. Yeah.

1:36Have you worked with him before or was this the first the first video?

1:39He did. He did the Unicorn Bones video, the bad video,

1:43and now the threats video. So, yeah. So, it's been and then well I worked with him before with um Mr. Rush Videos. Karen worked with him for the previous band. So, uh and I worked with him with Sheriff's. Yeah, we've done plenty with

1:58Uh so,

1:59so it's it's been a good relationship. It's been a lot of fun kind of going on going on a journey with him, too.

2:05Long walks, some would say. [laughter]

2:08So, you guys

2:10Sorry. We always like film with him or or like work with him on like the hottest day of the summer or like

2:16or the coldest.

2:17Yeah. So we did when we did threats like it was it was literally the coldest day of winter and it was negative 20.

2:25We have these days in Chicago they're like do not leave, keep an eye on your elders and we were we were in so we have these lights. They're they're not uh we're scrappy. So, we have actually work lights that get really really hot and we were in the venue with the heat on and the work lights could not get warm enough for us to sweat even with coats on. It was it was ridiculously cold.

2:53And that was one of the cold days we shot on. The other one we went outside,

2:57Yeah. So,

3:00so you you have survived many elements at at this point. Yeah. so far.

3:06Our arts?

3:07Yeah. Well, Midwest, it's always going to be shitty in one way or another. Something's going to happen. [laughter]

3:13Did you guys help to plan the vision of the video or was this something more more of his vision?

3:19It's it's always a um it's always a what do we got? What what's our turnaround time? And then kind of a throwing everything together and then then starts to weave a uh no pun

3:38A narrative of of these what he he gets a story out of it because he's he's a story guy

3:47and I I go just tell me where you want me to stand. What do you want me to do? [laughter] I

3:52we have a lot of collaboration with him. So he for for threats he had this story in mind. Um and then and then we kind of worked around it from there and had some aspects and some specific things we wanted to do. And then like when we did Bad Taste with him, I found this great location and I'm like whatever we do, we're filming around this location.

4:15Um and then with like Unicorn Bones, it was the same. Like he's like I have this great I have this great spot. Um and it was during the pandemic so it was like we need to film. We had to break a few.

4:24So, we had to film someplace where it was, you know, safe. It was away from people, like we could have that, you know, the pandemic going on. But he's like, I have this perfect location. So, then we kind of wo the story around that, too.

4:37That was a little bit of how do you feel about breaking curfew and trespassing?

4:43Yeah. Um, but for Yeah. for threats. It was this kind of like there was there was a an outline of a story and then it was oh props. Well, I've got a mannequin.

4:57Karen's like, "Now I have access to two mannequins." It was like, "Okay, well, let's see what do we have." You know, so we we pulled we pulled bits and pieces together. It it's [clears throat] odd what you have around when you when you go go to put things together and and uh and then it was just like this that and the other thing and and then then it's like then Weaver puts a lot of the the story in the edit, you know,

5:23he's he's doing a compiling a shot list and and I I I would never be one to be in film, but a music video is you're making a silent movie, you So you can be you could be directed the whole time just like

5:41go over there do this don't do that do you know so that that that work at least works for me

5:49and Karen looks great no matter what so

5:53although like I don't know what she's doing so she was behind me the whole time and eventually I was like but that was what was going on [laughter] I didn't see her

6:04I do this so so If if anybody's like watching this and they're not they haven't seen our video yet, like first off, go go watch her video. Um but but second off, um there's a specific part in So I'm playing an upright for the majority of this music video, which is fun and I kind of get what I like that I could flex that muscle again because I actually can play I I know how to play the upright. Um but he had no idea that I did this like epic upright base spin behind him in the background until he actually saw the like the film edit. So,

6:37it was like surprise.

6:38Well, [laughter] it was it was this sort of last minute decision because I'm so much taller than Karen that I ended up sitting in the chair for the whole thing. So, I was stuck to one spot and so she was just over my shoulder. So, I didn't know what was going on back there till I saw a replay and it was like, "Oh shit." You know? Does that ever happen to you guys on stage as well where afterwards like you'll see a thing back and you're like, "Whoa, that that's what you were doing."

7:07Yeah. [laughter]

7:07Yeah. Or No, a lot of times is that's how close that came to my head. [laughter] Um because I'll do this. I'll be playing and I get low and she'll swing her bass and it'll just go like like just graze the top of my head. I have no idea. Yeah. I'm just glad I have good dental. Like really?

7:26I have to sneak up behind you sometimes, too. knows too. The photographers go see some things.

7:34I'm like I'll like sneak behind him on the left hand side and then he'll like turn around and like be like, "Oh my god, where'd you come?"

7:41Well, I was going to say Ba bass is a very hefty instrument and since you guys both play bass, it's it's all it's like a weapon kind of.

7:50Yeah. Hers drawn blood on Ivan already.

7:53hers being as large as it is is is, you know, ridiculous. I I play Thunderbird bases, which are I think the biggest, heaviest, most awkward bass that has ever based. Um, and ironically enough, he plays a small short scale baby tiny little bass, you know. Um, but we we have um I mean my the thing is he my my base is hefty and there is there has been a time where I have clipped his hand, clipped his body um drawn blood.

8:28And when she did, when she clipped my hand, you know, my punched the headstock of her face, what does she do? She looks at the headside of her face. She goes, "Oh, is he okay? He didn't care about me." You know,

8:43he was fine. But the next day, so this happened at practice. The next time we practiced, I come in and he put a piece of tape down the middle of the rehearsal space. So now that's like you can't cross that line.

8:56Know your place. [laughter] Goddamn place.

9:00Okay. All right. Again. [laughter]

9:04Did you stay on your side of the line?

9:07Did Yeah, that's the question. I'm like So, I was actually looking at y'all's um like uh show history and is it correct that your first show was opening for Martin Atkins?

9:24Kind of.

9:25Kind of.

9:26It was a spo he he was like did a a spiel like it was one of his spoken spoken word things. Um

9:36yeah, that that show that first show was so bizarre. Um, [clears throat] so we always like, you know, it's like the we always tell people to don't ever do what we do. [laughter] Um, it works for us, but it's never going to work for anybody. Um, and I guess this is this is kind of a long story, but yeah, so we Martin Atkins did like his, you know, his little his presentation about Chicago music. And so he was kind of part of the show and um Steve Silver uh who's who's who's the old tour manager for Pigface and Killing Joke. Like he did

10:18he did a kind of thing and he introduced us. But but this was like our first show was at Livewire and kind of leading up to this uh very abbreviated history of Bellhead. Um so we started, you know, we started working on this project together. Um and we've been we've been in music for a million years. We've been in bands separate from each other. We finally got together. We started this project and we just were all in. So we're like writing songs. I even bought a laptop to do programming. We we made a run of we ordered merch. We made a we made shirts. We did a we did like a 500

10:56run of CDs. Um

10:58we had the enthusiasm of like passing

11:03It was and like just just just so intent on what we were doing. We

11:10lost sight of the outside world. And it occurred to me when we were in the wing about to go on stage

11:19and Steve Silver is about to introduce and I turn to Karen and I go just right then it dawned on me go maybe we should have played this for more than 11 people before WE [laughter] LADIES

11:31NO ONE'S HEARD THIS music before no one's heard our set before and it's not and like even my husband you know Dave um we didn't even he he hasn't heard these songs so it's already really close and really tightknit so no one knows anything and it's not only is it like this is our first show and like Martin Atkins is there and Steve Silver is there but for some reason

11:51Levi's there is there

11:53the industrial bass players that have ever bass played are in are at our show so Charles Levi was there uh Greta Brinkman um she's been in she's bass player for Pigface she's also been in Moby she's been [snorts] she did L7 um uh Dwayne Buford was there who's the bass player for Ministry for a time and So, we're like, LET'S HOPEFULLY WE DON'T SUCK.

12:17WE'VE already recorded

12:22printed shirts.

12:23We have hoodies.

12:24Yeah. Yeah. No, it was like

12:25And somehow it was lost on us that it was like maybe we should

12:29But I think like the the point the point is is that we were we believed in this so much foolishly. Foolishly. Foolish. No, but we were all in. Like like we didn't even go to like hey is this design cool like you know we just [laughter] we sunk money and energy into like without even kind of so don't do that.

12:50Yeah but I mean se six six seven years

12:54We're still here.

12:57I mean that's a testament to that

12:59Right. But it's but I don't recommend anybody do that like [laughter] like

13:04before you sink that much money and time into something like

13:07ask a few people maybe you know

13:09ask ask your boyfriend or girlfriend or husband you know

13:11you know [snorts] get a team of dead people I don't know like [clears throat]

13:16well how how how do you feel now like when you listen back to your first work like how do you feel about it now? Our crashes have gotten quieter over time. [laughter] Just a little bit louder for sure.

13:32I love it. I I'm proud of our stuff and a lot of what we have put out. Um we still play. We still have um you know, our our logo, you know, was one of the first things we made. Like that's we still have that on a shirt. We still we still lean forward with that logo. Um, uh, one of our first songs that we ever wrote, Fire Control, we just quit back into our set this year because it's like it's like an old friend where it's like, "Hello, I haven't seen you for so long and I, you know, I want to bring you back and hug you." So,

14:03we actually we actually pulled out some stuff and and it made me [clears throat] you know, you really had something when you would just when it was things were simpler. Yeah. You know, like just like at some point you got you got more like, oh, you could do this and do that and for the next couple tracks just limit yourself in for the next couple songs, limit yourself in the number of tracks.

14:33Just get back

14:35go back to that two bass in a drum

14:37you know, like but well like we didn't have high hat in a number of songs because I just it was it just ate up space that was in the way of the vocals. I just didn't do it, you know, and it was even more stripped back and was like just do that. Just just remind yourself that you can't, you know, so uh the I mean like obviously we've evolved and changed like in the beginning Karen didn't sing much at all. Um, the first song that she really sang any by herself was was Runaway and when we were recording her vocal part, she's in the she's in the ISO booth and she's like,

15:16"I'm really loud." And I'm I'm in the control room going, "Yeah, we'll fix it in the mix." And the soon as the engineer mutes it, he says turns to me and we both go, "We're not turning that down in the mix." Like, it's just no gonna be. So, when we were doing the mix, she's like, "Why am I so I'm" I'm like, "No, Karen, I lied to you. It's going to be this way." and she said, "I don't like

15:34trust me, this is how it's going to be." And so over time, she got to sing more and more till eventually handed her a song and went like, "This is yours. You're going to sing this whole thing."

15:46And spent a good year [clears throat]

15:49before you really found your footing to be like,

15:52"Right." Yeah.

15:53And then then you got more songs to sing and you know

15:57And now I can't get you to shut up. But that's part of the dynamic was was it was like I'm not going to sing. It's going to get old with me singing everything all the time. I want you to sing with me,

16:10you know.

16:13Yeah. I mean I I love that you guys both came in to the project with already having had experience. So you had a really strong vision, but that at the same time you guys have continued to evolve since then, you know.

16:26Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you you have you have to continue to grow and evolve. Like, it's it's no fun just to be status quo and do the same thing over and over and over and over again. And if that's, you know, be that a new new technology or a new ability that you learn or, you know, something we ha we have to continue to kind of

16:50better ourselves.

16:50I don't like to write the same song twice, you know. Um, [clears throat] so I it's that kind of well I already wrote one of those.

16:58So it's the then what can I what do I want to do now? What interests me? And sometimes it's the I'm working on something. I go Karen's not going to like this. So how can I where where does this fit? How is this going to work?

17:12You make me sound so mean. [laughter] Well, I I you know I know I know when when I'm

17:20like is this gonna like a hostage video where you're going to start blinking uncontrollably while we're having this

17:25Well, sometimes it's bring something I I go you're going to like this.

17:30And then sometimes it's a it's a well we're going to have to we're going to have to play this and see how it

17:38Because I I'm depending on how far along a song is, it's like everything goes through the rehearsal process. It's not like I read a song, it's done, we learn it. It is we are [clears throat] very much a live band. So how much a song is refined in the room varies by how much a song needs to change. How like this gets longer, this gets shorter. We don't have an intro. We need to change an intro. This part there there was the song where I thought it was pretty well long. Oh no, wait. Karen hated the demo. Then I reworked the demo. Then it came

18:15in. Then I was like, "I want to add this break." Then Karen's like, "We need to double the outro." Like it kept

18:21it kept being like, "It's done." No, it's not done. Also, when I did, Karen

18:26"These are really good lyrics." I go, "Great. Then you sing it." And I was

18:30Yeah. Right. Well, now that's your

18:33You know, there was there's a series of this change and that change will go on. So, a song is is fluid until it kind of gets to a point where it's like, "Yeah, this is how the song's going to go.

18:46It it doesn't immed. It's not just a I wrote this down and this is how we're going to play it." And there was one that we were working on and and I Karen was like, "The this needs a a vocal melody here." And I went home and I worked on it and I said, "Yeah, I wrote a vocal melody for it and I like it even less now. I'm going to scrap it." And she's like, "Are you sure?" I go, "Yeah, I, you know, I was the patron for this song and I don't feel it anymore. So, I'm going to take it apart." And the chorus went one the

19:17chorus lyrics went one place and the verse lyrics went another place and the music is just now in the back burner. Like, it's fine, you know, we'll but we we worked on it for a while, but it just became a it became more of a burden than anything else, you know?

19:31You just had to let it go for what it And some demos Karen just goes, "Nope." And she sends me stuff which is just, you know, will be couple baselines and some drums. And then I may work that up into a song or it may sit in our bin of ideas we have that have not yet become

19:54So that happens as well.

19:58It's just a matter of like we can only write so fast. Do you find that like when you guys are touring and playing some of the songs like over and over live that things start shifting as well?

20:16I think so. I mean, yeah. I I Well, also even older songs that we play, you know, they they evolve and they change um as we're kind of progressing on tour. Um, you know, I think we may change change up a lot of our our tones, um, our inflections, uh, and our our our voices. Um, and then I I think one thing that we've learned, um, as well is like we'll play songs live. Um, and then we realize that we maybe these are not live songs to play, right? They not not everything is meant to be to be performed.

20:54Yeah. Not everything goes over on the stage. And it doesn't mean that they're bad songs. It just means that,

21:00you know, that's a that's a different take for an audience. But, um, but yeah, I I definitely I mean, personally, there's many of our songs

21:08I have changed my performance wise since the initial recordings. And I think there's things that changed for the live like uh nothing as it seems has now gotten a call on response with the audience that's not on the record.

21:28and we're writing a new song now that's going to have you know it has kind of a fade out, right? And you don't you can't really do a fade out successfully live. So then we have we're actually working

21:38kind of a different way to end the song once we once we figure out

21:41I have no idea what song you're talking about. [laughter] a new one.

21:49Sure, I'm gonna go along with you on

21:53How can you tell if a song isn't going to be liked by the other person,

22:03Um, you know, I even write some really weird stuff and I mean,

22:08that's a nice way of putting it.

22:10Yeah. No, but but he he this is this is what what I guess this is this is what I've learned especially being in a being in a duo and and both of us having um very strong personalities um

22:25is that you have to leave your first you have to leave your ego at the door and that's just it. Um, you have to be open

22:33to feedback and um, that can be anything of me going like, "Hey, Ivan, you sound like [ __ ] today."

22:42you except she says that every day.

22:46This is but also like or like I even be like, "I want you to change your bass tone, you know, for this song." And Right. And so um so you have to be open. You have to be open for change. You have to be open for suggestion. And and you can't take it personal, right? Because the the end the end goal is the same. And how we feel about things, you know, when you create something, it's like this is your baby. And sometimes you have to have that producer or that other person to go in and go, you know what? No, we need to we need to tweak this or change this.

23:23And you know thankfully um you know we're able to create some really amazing things like you know the song Threats um that the first edition of that song had a gong in it.

23:38It did like um you know or or um

23:43forgotten about that.

23:44Yeah. And it and then it was like two different parts and it wasn't it wasn't fitting and and I'm like this I'm like this doesn't work. And Ivan's like, "Figure it out." And I'm like,

23:57okay." So, so, but that's that's what we do together. That's kind of how we were successful, you know.

24:02She gave it back to me and then I did and so on and so forth. And we were writing up until up until one rehearsal to get it down. So, then it recorded. But I think I think it was it might have been that song, but Karen said something about the way that we'll both play the same baseline, which was something akin to the way that two people will drive the same road. One of you is hugging the middle line and one of you is hugging the curb,

24:29you know, is is that we we're both going the same place, but we have a different different way of different style about it. And so sometimes it's it's the hey, the way that you're playing that baseline, can you lean to this or can you go to that because I'm looking for it to do this to the drum because I'm doing this to the base or where this vocal is going to land. I need this to go here or I'm thinking that this is gonna do this or you know like there's a tone there's a you know why don't you try this

25:01and sometimes we will put our bases down and [clears throat] and just just play with the vocals just go

25:10no you sing these lines and just switch our lines and try this and try that. Why don't we double these? Why don't we do the opposite parts? you know, like just take the song apart and put [clears throat] it back together and

25:23oh, that's different when I do that. Um, when when Karen broke her arm, uh, which I'm not responsible for, by the way,

25:30I it was immediately like people just looked at me like it was my fault, you know, like [laughter] on her own, you know. But um it it was a real it was a real interesting thing because it it created all of these scenarios for working out vocal parts where there weren't as many vocal parts for Karen to do in songs. And so we we arranged things in different ways that we hadn't before. And I think it really strengthened some of the ways that we will approach stuff going well that we are approaching new material going forward. We're in the middle of writing a bunch of stuff right

26:11now. And we we I think it made us opened us up to ideas and made us better about all of that without saying specifically what that that it is. We did a the last show we did when Karen was still um mostly laid up was uh we Martin Atkins was doing the Killing Joke Extremities record and we were opening that show and we had a very different set. Karen played bass on like four songs. She had to do like onoff and she's got a tambourine in the air and all this stuff and for us it's very different for an audience. It was like this is normal. This is completely

26:54The show goes on to them [snorts] like this is the way the band always is

27:01because we just made that work, you know, and uh it brought out a brought out a different side of Karen cuz she's not that like if I broke my arm, I put my base down having a sling and just be on the mic pull fine,

27:14you know? Yeah, that no problem.

27:17But for Karen, that was a completely

27:20You're fronting now. you know, you're leaning into that and that was a a learning experience. Don't break it again, though. I I've I've heard um you know, when you break a bone that it actually strengthens it if if it's an actual break. And I it sounds like that's actually what happened with your creative muscles as well. Like you guys were really flexing the creative muscles to to navigate that.

27:48Absolutely. Yeah, it was it's definitely a you know, you're a bass player and you you you break a wrist, there's you know, what do you do? But we kept we kept busy and it was great. You know, it was definitely a it was it was a great experience and it was also um you know, I forced me to do things that I don't do. Um you know, Ivan's mentioned my vocals a number of times and I was never I was never a front person. I was never a lead vocalist. That was never I mean I've I in in the 30 years I've been performing I have I've never had any

28:21desire um to do that. Like I have so much respect for for for you know when you do that it's like oh my god that's amazing. And I just I've always been a bass player and yeah then then it's like oh no I have to and it and it was very uncomfortable and it was um it was very uncomfortable but I did it and it was fun and and now and now

28:48you know and now I now I feel better about it. Um it but I think for me um you know obviously we you know I sing you know I sing about 50% of the the the music but for some reason it's like having my bass is like my my security blanket. Like I could do stuff if I already have the bass on me but I take it off and it's like it's like that you know the nightmare of when you're like in school and you stand up and you're naked or you're on stage and you're naked. Like that's that's how I feel. So it it really um uh it really was

29:17challenge. Um, but I'm better for it.

29:20No, I understand. I'm actually a keyboard player and Mankind is Obsolete kind of got the vocals got thrust um into my direction because we couldn't find a singer.

29:29Um, and I feel you. It's like I was like, what am I supposed to do with my hands? Cuz I'm used to like playing keys and I'm like, what? This is weird.

29:38But it's awesome when you when you find when you find the flow and the joy and then you're like, okay, this actually feels more natural now. you know.

29:47And you still get to play. You still get to play too every once in a while.

29:50I mean, you so you Yeah. Yeah.

29:54Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. And I play keys for like System Sin and other projects, too. So, but yeah. I mean, it's just it's really cool because I feel like um it's like going back to like you playing your first show with Martin Atkins and then into the extremities when you were like in your challenge of like, okay, you know, how do I shift gears with a broken broken wrist, you know? And well, um it's sounds like you're fully recovered from that.

30:23Yeah, I mean I can play. Um it's it's interesting like I still have a lot of pain that I'm going through but I mean it's um you know we're we're full steam ahead. We're we're doing tours. I can I can perform just you know back back to normal. I just think it's um you know, especially when in September we're going out for um we have have a pretty a good run of shows in September and I'm like well I'll just make sure that I pack extra aspirin and uh some ice pack in case we need it and but yeah, otherwise I'll all back to normal.

30:57Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, with as much touring as you guys have done, I mean, there's always sort of that mindset of like the show must go on, like one way or the other with tam tambourine or vocals or whatever it is that you need to do to get through that, you know?

31:11Yeah. And and it's not only it's not only like the show must go on, but like prepare for everything, you know, like make sure make sure you have backups to the backup. And I mean, you guys know that, too. Going out on tour, it's like you have to make sure that you have, you know, have your first aid kit, have your, you know, spare tire if you need it. Um, I guess when when we played with you, I we always like to bring it up like you guys had a crockpot with you and that was just the coolest thing

31:39right? You made you made a split pea soup and it was amazing. Um,

31:44so, [laughter] you know, if you have a recipe you want to send us a reveal to everybody now, that that would be I'm I'm definitely [clears throat] Yeah, I love I love my little crockpot.

31:56And honestly, it changes every time like when I make it because I'm like, "Okay, I'm just going to put a little bit of this and that and the other." So, that was a one time recipe. [laughter]

32:04Oh, man. It was It was so good.

32:06We were We were We were so hungry and it like a cartoon character. I was like, "Is that like followed it like on the on the just and then you were like, "Do you want soup?" I was like, "Yes. Did you make us soup? This is amazing.

32:21I am band mom. I'm always like, "Did you guys eat your sandwiches?" [laughter]

32:27Yeah. No, it was so awesome getting to meet y'all. And I love the crucible. And it was such a cool way to meet. Um

32:33Oh, yeah.

32:34Yeah. Yeah. It's one of the things I really love about touring in general is just like the friends that you get to make on the road and, you know, and then you encounter each other over and over, you know, as long as you guys keep up with it. Oh, 100%. I mean, like I now like because we we're 100% DIY, you know, we're like you. Um Yeah. And so, so I do I mean I think at this point I do about 80 85% of the booking, right? Um and you know, uh Dave helps and then and then Ivan will pick up, you know, the the the

33:08straggler. He really does it. Like he got us a St. Louis show this year. That was his extent of booking. when Karen's like, "Ivan, go [gasps] do this."

33:16But but I get like I book now to see my friends. Um and it's kind of cool to do that. So, um, you know, we're in the fall we're going we're going out to Colorado and then down in New Mexico and we're playing Denver and like we and we did that um two years ago and it was like it's because we want to go see Charles Levi, you know, and um and a bunch of other friends, you know, we're playing with um Fernando at EHPH and also Play Garden and then, you know, we're going down to New Mexico uh with the funeral process kids and we

33:48love them and it's like you just make families all the time and so literally our tours are always routed to go and to go and see our people.

33:58Yeah, it's it's the best way. Absolutely. Yeah. So, um have you guys done the um New Mexico Golf Festival before or is this your first?

34:08We have not. This is our first time at the the first time doing the festival. So, we played New Mexico two years ago um at the Launchpad. So, we're familiar with the venue and everybody, but um you guys played the New Mexico Goth Fest.

34:22Yeah, we love it. It's a great community. Yeah, we love them. Yeah, for

34:27It's awesome. So, you guys, um head out in a couple of weeks.

34:31Yeah. So, we um we generally we'll do like long weekends a lot. Um you know, we we both we both juggle day jobs. You know, I have stepids. Um, so you know, a lot of times we'll do like three, four, five days and then, you know, in September I said we're going out for for a, you know, a a good long haul. Um, but yeah, in two weeks we're just doing a quick run. Um, you know, we'll be in South Bend, Indiana on the 31st and then in Indianapolis on the 1st and then on the second we'll be back in Chicago. So, it'll be, you know, just a quick popping

35:08around and then we'll be back at home for a month. I think what's great about where you're located is that it's pretty central, so you guys can hit so many different

35:17Yes. Yeah. It's, you know, the midi, we can travel through the majority of the Midwest and to get to the south pretty easily. Um, we have yet to get as far out to you guys because there's those pesky mountains that are in the way, [laughter] you know.

35:32Yes. Yes.

35:33And it's it's a commitment to go to the West Coast. I mean, be it, you know, up to Seattle or or to California, like you you you have to lose two days.

35:45You have to cross the mountains and then have it tour itself on the other side of the mountain.

35:50Well, you're explaining is something you're well aware of. It's like

35:54like we want to come out. It's like it's like I want to come out. I would love to play up and down the West Coast, but like man, those

36:02Yeah. No, I understand. like when you have like a certain little like you know period of time where you're like okay these are the days we can tour and then you have to be really strategic about like how are we going to get from where we are to there and back you know

36:18right and like we have not we also have not gotten all the way down to Florida yet either and that's that's definitely on my hopes and dreams list maybe next year or after. Um, but you could hit I mean with Florida like Florida and California like Texas like they're such big states like you could do three days in Florida you do three days in Texas. So um but it would be you know again you have to be strategic of how are we going to get down there where it makes sense.

36:45Yeah. Yeah. That's it's it's it's definitely a lot of Gosh, I look at it as sort of like 3D chess, you know, you know, and I'm looking at the map and I'm like, okay, like do you guys have like a limit of how many hours you like to drive per day?

37:00We we do and we're

37:03and we break it. um this this this drive out to Colorado and down to New Mexico like it's going to it's going to kill us cuz there's going to there's a day where it's 9 hours and it's there's you there's nothing you can do about it. There is literally nothing from Albuquerque back east that is under nine hours. I mean again like you you know this. So we would love to try to like max it at like five. I think that's a good a good number. Um, but I said this time around it's going to be real. It's going to be real rough.

37:38You know, you do the thing where it's like you just, you know, you know, the roll call is like, okay, we're only going to get four hours of sleep. Everybody's got to, you know, be up and then we're going and it's going to be one of those days. And

37:51who's who's driving first? And this is not our first rodeo like and

37:57and we are from the Midwest so we've spent plenty of time in the car to begin with, you know, and like so it's we're used to it and it's it's generally like who's got the most fatigue, you know, like we take turns and we're not shitty about like especially Dave's with us,

38:17you know, he he loves to drive and

38:19Oh, nice.

38:20That's great, you know. Uh, so

38:22that's awesome.

38:23Having a having a third is is fantastic.

38:25Dave, who um we we always say like so we'll go out with it's the two of us or we'll go out with with Dave Dave Shock um my husband and we if he's not with us, we get to bring a fog machine because we're so tightly packed. So um yes, Dave Shock is slightly better than a fog machine. [laughter]

38:49YES. DON'T DON'T THINK MY HUSBAND is not He is also subject to the to the the back and forth abuse of of poking, you know, that we do.

38:58Yes. Yes. Which is a sign of love. It is a sign of love. Yes.

39:02Yes. [laughter]

39:04Well, if Dave's if Dave's with us, then I get to work on uh all of the not fun part of of uh you know, fixing every drum hit and everything for pre-production. [clears throat] M

39:17so I will sit there and Karen will eventually hear me arguing with our drummer. Uh you know

39:24so I just cuz I'll just go through all of the files and just like look at make sure that every hit is actually where it's supposed to be and just start doing all that because if you if I'm doing that at home there's a million other things I'd rather be doing but if I'm in the vehicle

39:38where else are you going to be?

39:40It's a very nice seat for somebody who's 53 except I have another foot on that. So, [laughter] you know, I'll just sit there and just Okay, let's just let's go, you know, um it's not going to the pre-production is not going to do itself. So,

39:55do you guys did you get a new tour tour vehicle? Didn't yours

40:00It died. It died. Yeah. I lost. Yeah. But it was amazing cuz one of our friends um who we met in New Mexico um he has a van and so um Yeah. and he helped us drive and you know in his van which was amazing to have help. It's all it makes such a difference when you have an extra set of hands and you know someone to help with all of that. Yeah.

40:23you have you have a new vehicle for 2027. You're ready to go.

40:26We we did the math actually and we were like wow. I'm like cuz we were we were I don't know about you guys but we were pouring in so much money for maintenance like every tour. So every tour it was like you know there's I mean and we put a lot of miles on our vehicles. um especially when we're going from west coast to east coast. So, it was just like all the repairs, all of that. We were like, you know, honestly, it'd be cheaper, believe it or not, to to either do a rental or to work with like a friend. Um yeah. So, but we are planning

40:55like a a spring tour and stuff. So, it's, you know, but we'll have we'll have like another It's not buying it like, you know, again, it's just it's such it's crazy how much money it takes to upkeep a van when you're like putting a lot of a lot of wear and tear on it.

41:11yeah. I mean, we So, because it's just two or three of us, we fit in an in an SUV, which is crazy. Um, yeah, but like I recently got I got a car two and a half years ago and I've already put 40,000 miles on it and so like

41:29I um you know and and and and it's like this thing has to last me,

41:33right? Like I'm still paying it off. Um so so and that's another reason like well you know

41:39ba basically the breakdown is we both we both drive so I do my vehicle is all of the the pentagram around the Midwest driving and then when [clears throat] we go much further it's Karen's vehicle. So the mileage more or less works out you know at the end of the day and the wear and tear roughly. But it's but it's

42:02but yeah I just I mean right like I just I just had to put a thousand dollars in my car. Like it needed brakes. It needed all this stuff. So yeah. And and it's it's it's worse now too, right? Because now we're fighting with the price of gas and you guys feel that pain in California the same as we you know.

42:21And and then it's also it's inflation with everything else. So it's just you know the the landscape the future of touring. If we had even slightly more

42:30we would fill jugs with gas. But we have so little room. It's like fill your pockets with gas. Like

42:36we we went to print another shirt cuz we have six shirts. And Karen goes, "Where are we going to put these?" And I'm like, "Well, we could open the sunroof and dump the shirts in, but then we can't get out of the vehicle. [laughter] We have we have no like we can't get new gear. We can't, you know." So,

42:54yeah. I mean, a gas can would be great, but where would it go? [laughter]

43:00No, it's true. It's true. Yeah.

43:04Yeah, it is. It is crazy when you actually like figure out like, okay, like, you know, I mean, that's actually part of the reason like we also make our own food on the road. It's just little ways that you try to save as much money as possible to make it possible to tour.

43:18Yeah. Exactly.

43:20Yeah. Yeah. What do I mean, do you Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

43:23No, go ahead. No, go ahead. Yeah. Go.

43:26Yeah. I was just like um like like what are how do you guys like manage your your snacks and foods and all of that? Like do you have any favorite favorite things to eat on the road?

43:39Oh yeah.

43:40We have we have bananas that ripen on the dashboard. [laughter]

43:44Yeah. Tour bananas. That's a thing. So

43:48well I mean the especially for like I I don't need to say this to you, right? But for like people that are watching this and that are like chiming in like tours are marathons.

44:00It's and so you don't eat like an [ __ ] This is not a vacation. This is not a fun time. Like you need to be in good shape. So so so stop with the shenanigans. So, like we I mean, yes, we'll we'll we'll splurge here and there or do a thing like I I need my peanut M&M's, but at the same time, like we have, you know, healthy snacks are important. So, like I've, you know, we'll have bananas, he'll bring apples, we have a really tiny cooler that will fit waters in. And we have um we have like a bunch of dry snacks. We'll bring power bars. We'll bring beef jerky for

44:42protein. Um, you know, we we take our daily vitamins. Like Ivan has like his collagen that he mixes in his coffee every day. Um, but but we do have we do have loves. Like when we're on tour, if we're going to a certain part of the country, I'M LIKE, "WE'RE GOING TO WAFFLE HOUSE." YOU KNOW, LIKE,

45:00and I say, "Do I have a choice?" And I don't have a choice. [laughter]

45:05Well, we'll try to we'll try to eat, you know, you you

45:09eat as many vegetables as we can.

45:11Yeah. Like you can't, you know, you we don't have room to like bring a crockpot like you guys do, which I'm so jealous of. Well, like

45:19let's eat as healthy and as clean as we can. And if that mean if if if that means like well we can go to Subway and just like get load up on your veggies. Don't slather it with double mayo, you know, things like that.

45:32When it's 2:00 in the morning, you know, you are limited to like But if I can get some pickles, I'm eating pickles wherever we are, you know.

45:39Yes, pickles. Evan loves pickles.

45:42Uh, you know, there's a there's a lot of I I'm I'm a big proponent of of if I see Karen and her hand is empty, I put a water bottle in it.

45:54I'm I'm constantly drink more water. Drink more water because you have to stay hydrated. And [clears throat] you go like, "Oh, I'm drinking." No, you constantly need to be drink one because it is so easy to get

46:08to not drink and like you know you get you go behind the merch booth and you think you're going to be there for a minute and we're there for 3 hours.

46:16You're stuck

46:17and you don't get you don't get any water. So, you know, I will see Dave. I'm like, give your wife give your wife give her two bottles of water. You know, like you can never have too much water. If we are at a venue and it's the end of the night and there's that like some water bottles left, take them all. Take them all, you know, like

46:36as much water as possible. We always have room for water. We'll find a way.

46:41Yeah. I bring a bag of apples. Yeah, that is that is a thing. The the bananas that you know cuz the potassium is good. I mean,

46:51just and then just try not to get like hangry at each other, you know? That's that's a big thing because if you if you eat shitty early, you get gut rot and then you're just, you know,

47:03and no one wants to smell your gas, you know, like no one wants. [laughter]

47:07But I mean, we're going to end up eating [ __ ] shitty meals at some point. Like, you know, it's not we're not going to eat great all the time.

47:14But you can do you do your best.

47:16You do what you can with what you got, you know?

47:18Yeah. Yeah. Well, tour hunger is a real thing. It's like it's it's crazy how many, you know, how food just goes right through you when you're when you're on tour because you really do expend a lot of energy, you know, with

47:32Yeah. And then you do that thing you're like, am I hungry or am I bored?

47:35Yeah. [laughter]

47:39Yeah. Yeah. Is it red or green apples out of curiosity? Because for Gordon, it's green. He loves green apples. So

47:46I I don't have a I don't have a prejudice with apples. It's literally just a bag of apples. What's on sale? Like just

47:53I I don't care about the color, but it has to be crunchy. [snorts] I don't like the soft apples. Like that texture is

48:00Yeah. I definitely like my apples crisp.

48:04Yeah. Yeah. We We keep our We We have similar, you know, snacks. The guys really like the uh those fig Newton bars on top of that.

48:13Oh, yeah.

48:14Yeah. Yeah. They have a thing for that and the and the peanut butter pretzels. So that usually gets the the drivers through. [laughter]

48:22Both both quality choices.

48:24Yes. Yes. [laughter] Yeah. So well, you guys had both tour prior to Bellhead.

48:34Yeah. Now, did you [laughter] did you did you tour in um in full but in full bands though? Is this like was this your first time doing it as a duo? I well I I toured as a duo prior to Bellhead. So I just had a drummer. So it was drum a drums a drum a drums drums and bass. So it was Mr. Russia. [snorts] And so

49:02I've I've done the full

49:04and I I've been out I've been out with a full band before as as well. Karen's done a ton of that.

49:10Yeah. I've I've done I've done the full full shenanigans with a giant white van and the humongous trailer on the back of it and multiple people and um yeah, it's uh the the the more people the harder it is, right? I mean, you know that and and again like you have to you have to really just have good a good relationship. Um because one one bad tour or one bad right you get you get hangry or your bladders aren't synced up and then it just the the the mood could just deteriorate so quickly and I've had I've had really great big tours and I've awful like you want to kill them by day

49:55two and it's

49:56also that thing where it's like somebody gets sick and then just passes it

50:00Oh. Oh yeah. Yeah. the tour. [laughter]

50:03How do you how do you avoid not having to play through all your entire band?

50:08Um, so I I wear a mask at all our shows myself cuz I'm immuno compromised myself. Um, and but um, but we we stay pretty healthy to be honest. Like we everybody like eats pretty healthy, you know, does everybody does their workouts and you know, I think we just the rest of the guys have a pretty strong immune system. So, I used to I used to get like awful bronchitis that would last for weeks. Um I I went for like a six week um MKIO tour where I had bronchitis the whole time. Um yeah, and then I cracked a ribb on stage, you know. So, it was it

50:44was pretty brutal. Um so, yeah. And but then I have my tricks, you know, when I when I have to sing through a show and my voice is awful, like, you know, the oregano oil and the lemon. I got really into like holistic herbs and stuff. Um

50:56Yeah. Yeah,

50:58there was this show we were gonna play um that like I think one of the only shows we canceled and Karen called me or I thought it was Karen because Miles Davis answered the phone. I'm like the [ __ ] we are not going to put this show. You cannot sing. I'm like [laughter] no we we cannot do this. It is just gone. I mean just gone. You can't sing like that

51:23at all. Uh that's No, not at all.

51:28Yeah, I don't like cancelling. It was really hard. It was hard. It was hard for me to cancel that show and then um we we canceled a bunch of shows last fall with my with my wrist injury because we I got injured and we so we had we had a small run of shows with Phu um who are like the most amazing human beings like love them so so so much. But I was but so we were I was like playing one song and then taking the bass off and I had like a splint on and then um and then I got home and then I went back

51:59and had more MRIs and I went oh no I really [ __ ] my wrist up and then we had to just

52:05and here's the thing I go to Karen I'm like cancel shut it down like just

52:10he he he wanted me to cancel the failure shows and I'm like it's fine we'll make I'll I'll push through it but then once once the kind of the diagnosis formally came back And then I was like,

52:20but we also got back and like dropped you off at the hospital, you know? I mean, that's the thing. It's like, so when Karen got injured, she's like, don't be mad. I'm like,

52:31what happened? You know, cuz Karen will get on a scoot scoot and take off. I'm like, what are you doing?

52:35I do my own studs,

52:36right? You know, and now granted, I've had my own share of injuries. I I fell in a hotel room getting out of a tub.

52:44And [ __ ] up my ribs and my back. And you know, I I fell

52:47getting off the stage carrying my amp down the stairs and messed up my knee and like there plenty of plenty of my own. That was a tour that you started on a scoot scoot and I said you're going to get hurt and then you were like and look what you did. Yeah. So it's it's not you know it's not entirely just her.

53:05But she did she did a number this time and so we we we've had our share of injuries. It's not

53:11but it's Yeah. It's just weird to cancel

53:14Yeah. But there is a point where it's like but you have the the the long-term damage of you know like what what are we powering through for you know

53:23and I don't know like I mean especially because I mean you were you know with MKO like you've been doing this for for quite a few years too and it like pre precoid you didn't cancel shows and if you canceled shows then you were you were [ __ ] done like you would never get that venue again. You would never get that city again. It was like you were a pariah if you ever cancelled anything. Um, and I think I think now it's like the the attitudes towards it are so so different in in in a positive way. Like you know got thankfully like we have this so now it's like okay I

53:56could cancel these shows cuz my wrist was broken and like I would say twothirds of the venues we were gonna that we booked were playing in the fall you know like in New Orleans um Little Rock you know so it's good. It's It's good that that mindset has changed now.

54:13Yeah. Some some bands cancel stuff a little willy-nilly,

54:18but yeah, you should

54:19you should, you know, take care of

54:23Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I know pre-COVID, like this was the tour where I had bronchitis. Um Gordon ended up singing for me. Like there was three shows. Um the yeah, my voice was so trashed and the doctor I I went to see an ENT and they were like, "You literally have to go on vocal rest or you're going to have no voice at the end of the tour." So we um taped the lyrics onto the monitors and Gordon's like playing his bass and just like he did an amazing job. He has an awesome voice, but I was just sort of like, "All right, Gordon, go." So [laughter]

54:57yeah, but I mean I feel you where it's like you there is that pressure where you're like oh we can't cancel the show. People you know are are you know counting on us and you know you don't want to burn the bridges and you know we we ourselves have canceled very very few. It's been for like okay vehicle's broken and we literally can't get there

55:16yeah you literally can't do anything about it. And there's

55:20there there are some real like we cannot get to there.

55:24There was we were on the road. Um and it was two days in India. Not very far drives

55:32both days. We got up, got gas, ate, went to the bathroom, and ended up spending the entire day in Tredential Downpour driving in in Indiana. You know when you look at the map on your phone and you see [clears throat] nothing. It's just blank and there's a line. It's not even a road. It's just a line. And you were on something that's like this can't constitute a road. It's it's as wide as a vehicle. Like we were driving in the middle of so much no I have never been so happy to see an old man in a rain slicker who just pointed go that way

56:07because there was the some massive pileup on the highway. So we we call the venue to be like, "Oh, we're going to be late." But we were even though we were late, we were still fine. You know, we were still there by soundcheck. We were just later than we were supposed to be there.

56:25The next day, get up, food, gas, bathroom, same thing, different highway, different

56:35Oh no.

56:36Just like, "Oh, are we doing this again? Call the venue. We're going to be late." But two days that should have been like days, you know,

56:45um but just spent entirely

56:48uh you know delayed if we weren't if we weren't like the kind of get up early and go to you know get into town and be punctual like uh about it. We would have we would have missed

57:01would have missed our call to for sure. Well, you bring up actually a really awesome point which is just it's the professionalism behind what you're doing that lends itself to longevity. I think like you know I mean it sounds like a simple basic rule but um not everyone gets that and I think it's awesome just to know like okay like part part of the basic thing is be there on time right or early right so

57:29well and it's and it's plan plan ahead you know again like you have to you have to treat this you know even if even if you're not a full-time professional band right that this is your this is 100% your gig like even if If you're a band that maybe goes out just on weekends or hasn't done a lot of touring, like you need to remember that you have to be professional because you are going to places and you're working with people who this is their full-time job. This is their main source of income. They are relying on you to do your part, you know, be it be it be on time, be it fill

58:04a room with people, with bodies. Um, and and that means you have to do the not fun things and you have to prepare for it. Like we we map out our tour. We have we love spreadsheets. So I literally have a Google spreadsheet that is like here's the the addresses of the hotel. Here's the addresses of the venue. Here's our call time. Here's the start time. Like

58:26time zone change. Yeah. All that. And then like you have to map it out going like, okay, I know in advance that I need that load out wheels up at 9:00 in the morning means 9:00 in the morning. Um, but I just think, you know, I I I think a lot of a lot of, you know, greener bands, um, that's one thing that they that they they should think about kind of when they start doing this journey is to like take take your extra time and and plan all this out and remember that you're just one small component of a bigger thing.

59:00But there the thing is that there is a history of bands being unprofessional. So, like when you look at a venue and it says you need to be there at 4:00, soundcheck is at 7:00. The reason they say you have to be there at 4:00 is because there is a history of bands being late. So, they have set the time that early because musicians have been that bad

59:19that they have to set time. So, you're like, why do I have to be that for? Because musicians have been that

59:26So, don't be that, you know?

59:28Don't be that person. And like when you when you are just when you show up on time, when you are when you have your [ __ ] together, it goes a long way. When you're not a pain in the dick to work with, they go,

59:38"Let's get those guys back here." You know, like it is

59:43really just

59:44being prepared, you know, like when we

59:48you know, we we need we need this, we need that, that's it. Yeah.

59:51And they're like, "Really?"

59:53Yeah. Yep. That's it. You know, we're all set.

59:56Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. That's all we need, you

1:00:02Yeah. And and what like you were saying, like it's it's like, oh, we want these guys back. It's you are building relationships when you're on tour. And hopefully relationships that you can continue to have, you know, for years to come and cuz people they people do have a memory for like, oh, these guys were actually not not great, right? Or or the opposite, right? So, yeah.

1:00:24Well, the promoter talks to other promoters. the venue talks to other venues, the sound person talks to I mean

1:00:29there's only so many people doing so many jobs and you know whatever town you're in and then then on online so you know like mind you know how you [clears throat] behave yourself like

1:00:40those those [ __ ] in Bellhead.

1:00:46No, I mean it's

1:00:47the only the only thing that we that that that follows us around now um is our our threats of malort. circle.

1:00:57What is this? What is this uh Malort

1:01:00Well, Malort um Malort is a Chicago lor. Um and I should put quotes around that. So, it's an alcoholic beverage. You you shoot it. It's a shot form. Um and it is in fact the most vile, disgusting thing that you will ever put in your mouth. Um well, for most people, right? Um,

1:01:24we were

1:01:25I say like, you know, Chicago people are very different than the rest of the world. I think we we have a scrainess and a toughness and a survivability. And I feel like it is our lot in life to be punished that we have to drink Malort. Like I just think like this [laughter] um you know like what's like like the myth of like the guy that has to push the boulder up the hill in perpetuity. Like our our job is to drink Malort forever. But it's um it's it's terrible. Um you know, if you Google Malort reactions, you're going to see a sea of people that hate it. Um and so it's kind

1:02:00of become this thing where it's like, well, as Chicago ambassadors, I feel like I have to we have to be the ones that you experience Chicago with. Um

1:02:10also, PS, I love you.

1:02:12And so now, like if people come in town,

1:02:17they we we will them. But it's now it's now come out and gone further. So Ken from Sounds and Shadows um and Amaranth um he has promised me his Mort virginity forever. And so he's like I'm just never going to see you in Chicago. [laughter] You're never going to do it. Well, we played Fixation again this year and Fixation is a Chicago sister venue and they have Malor and and it's like you can't get out of it. Um, and there is a lovely video um of his reaction and you could actually see the moment

1:02:57his soul leaves his body of how bad it is. Um but but I even like so there's a we are playing um we're playing Oklahoma City this fall. It's our first time in Oklahoma City. I'm so excited about it. And um and there's like three or four people that are like hey you can't make me drink Malort. And I'm like guess what [ __ ] I went out and bought little travelsiz bottles of Malort in little plastic little plastic bottles and I will ruin your life wherever we go now. So be be warned, internet land. If Belle head comes to your town, we are bringing our own board. [laughter]

1:03:39So we have space for that.

1:03:40Yeah. It's just I'm going to make a bandelier and I'm just going to put

1:03:44you know, like Chewbacca from Star Wars. He's got the band. I can picture it in my mind.

1:03:49I'm just going to put the little bottles in there and I'm going to wear it.

1:03:51Are we getting an endorsement yet?

1:03:53No, not yet. Okay,

1:03:54we need to

1:03:55we should [laughter]

1:03:57a bad taste.

1:03:58But like we we were uh there was there there's a band and we we're at a farm like three shots of Mort. The bartender looks at us three shots of Mul puts one water down just knows what's up.

1:04:09And after she does the shot in Mort and goes through all the cartoon character faces go, why do we do this to people we like that we want to play with again?

1:04:17cuz we love you.

1:04:18We have against

1:04:19you hurt you hurt the ones you love the most. Yes, though. The best one was

1:04:23never make you do that though. Don't worry. [laughter]

1:04:27She will. She will. We We were um we did a series of dates with sealed and uh um with um

1:04:38you lost it.

1:04:39I lost it. Yep.

1:04:42Uh recent recent tour recent tour.

1:04:44I don't know.

1:04:45I don't know what you're talking about in so many places.

1:04:48I can't remember. I lost it. It's gone. It's just It'll come back. It'll come back. Yes. Yes. Hopefully not after the stream.

1:04:59I'll call you in a week.

1:05:00Yeah. There we go.

1:05:00Yes. Yes. Yes. No, it's it's Isn't that funny how time is so fluid? Like I was thinking about this. Um Yeah. And I was like, gosh, I'm like, you know, we we've been like laying pretty low ourselves this year, but touring really does make time bendy, you know?

1:05:19Oh, yeah. for sure.

1:05:21Yeah, it's like it was four years ago or it was yesterday. I'm not entirely sure.

1:05:28Have you guys been

1:05:29Have you guys been touring pretty consistently since you started?

1:05:33Yeah. I mean, I think Yes. Yes, absolutely. I mean, the the one the one thing that was interesting is like so we we started just pre of the pandemic. Um, and that made that made everything real interesting, right? Because it's like how do you h how do how do you as a band that likes to play live and how do you know what do you do in this na in in this in this kind of navigating this new scape? And so that was definitely a hurdle that we went through. Um the one thing that you know we had a long conversation during the pandemic and

1:06:11we're like um you know we have confined spaces. you know, it's us, like we're we're comfortable kind of in that. So, we we kind of worked together. We did a lot of like back that's how we started writing back and forth. Like, I would send him riffs and we would do that. So, we were kind of getting everything ready, but then as soon as as soon as the pandemic kind of lifted and it seemed like it was good to go, like we were we were on tour. We were gone and we have not looked back. The other thing was that

1:06:39before so we we had been on the road before and so we actually

1:06:44we had we had bunch of stuff booked and we had taken all of our money and bought the biggest merch order we've ever done.

1:06:53So I had all this merch stacked higher than us and Chicago just shut down and I'm like

1:07:02what? So we packed up all the merch. We rolled it, but we didn't put it online. We just sat on it. And it's like, well, this is all our money. It's all tied up in merch

1:07:12and we could put it online or we could sit on it until this eventually lifts, like until we can launch it. So, when when we were able to go back out on the road and everybody was kind of like, yeah, let's get started. We were like, beep beep. Took off and had a full line of merch ready. So we had it was it wasn't like we had launched it during the pandemic and people had already it was entirely new when we hit the road with it

1:07:39and so that actually worked in our favor because people

1:07:42people had money and were excited

1:07:45you know to get stuff and to see us. So it was great. Um,

1:07:48and we started touring. I mean, even before the pandemic, like we went out really quick. Like some of we I mean, it was in that first year we were doing out of state shows and it was and it was actually kind of it was interesting because like we you know, we have this project, we started this project, but

1:08:04we don't know how we're going to interact together as we're going through. Like yeah, we're friends and we're doing this, but like I don't know what he's going to be like on tour. Like he Ivan could be the worst person ever to be in a car with. And so we did this like we did this like weekender, you know, where we went we I think it was like um Chattanooga.

1:08:24Oh god.

1:08:25And like St. Louis and a couple other things and and we get on the road and very quickly we're like, "Oh no, this is this we this is perfect. This is going to work out no problem at all." So um Well, out of curiosity, everybody's everybody has a different reason why they do this, but um like what is it that keeps you guys touring?

1:08:50I have a void in my self-esteem that can only be filled with applause.

1:08:56Like I mean I I approached Karen with starting this band when we were both in other bands. I was like, "We are lifers,

1:09:03so let's start doing something now as a side project because inevitably other people will

1:09:10will wither and die and we will need to be doing something." Not knowing what Bellhead was going to be even be bellheaded was like we could do this or an Alice Cooper tribute band. I don't know. But we need to do something. And and it's just that like I writers that don't write end up talking to themselves and it's like I need to do something

1:09:31I I need adventure. I need to travel. I need to be on the move. I am very wanderlusty in a person and it's hard for me to be in the same place for a long amount of time. Um and so being able to get on the road gets me, it's good for my soul. It really is. I need to I As crazy as it sounds, like I look forward to being in a car for eight hours, you know, eating eating beef jerky, listening to podcasts about TV shows from the 80s, um, and getting two hours of sleep every night. It's just it it's good for my

1:10:11There's something about it that really is just like really,

1:10:15I don't know, even with my upbringing that's like, yeah, this makes sense. It's not for everybody though.

1:10:20It is not.

1:10:21And I think I think people people realize that quickly when they

1:10:25and I mean there is there is a expiration date on it where it's like we can only do this for so long before it'll be like yeah we can't keep you know like the body tells you you we eventually realized it's like [snorts] you know what we need to do is spend just a little more money on lodging. Just just a little bit more. you're getting a little old for this. And it was like,

1:10:50I need I need I need a bed sheet that is more than a bed sheet count of thread count of one.

1:10:56Yeah, I found out that Yeah. Turns out thread count is a thing and there's [laughter] when you get down to 11

1:11:06You know, we always talk about how we're scrappy, you know, and we, you know, DIY and we do things. Well, when we we started like, let's like we're going to get really cheap hotels. And I mean I mean cheap and dangerous and sketchy. And it's like the motel where like the doors face out into the the parking lot because at 2:00 in the morning you open the door, you back your car up and then you throw all your gear in and then you can pass out. But like you learn as you go like these are these are $60 hotels for a reason and they had just

1:11:37progressively gotten worse. And like

1:11:40we stayed at one where the guy's like, "I'm going to get I'm going to put you on the nice side of the the the motel and it was the nice room." And the nice room didn't have hot water and it had blood on the sheets. And that's Oh,

1:11:55That's No. And that that's when that's when we're like, you know what? Let's let's stop staying at Motel Six's and let's let's get a best

1:12:03I wasn't sure which story really when I was like Karen, that guy has a machete.

1:12:06Yeah. or when the woman had the freshly amputated foot.

1:12:10The leg amputation was interesting.

1:12:12They when when when the pimp sent the woman with

1:12:17the woman with the dog.

1:12:18Yeah. There there's a number of times like I we don't tell people we're

1:12:24Mom's not watching this.

1:12:25I tend I tell them that I'm a street

1:12:28You know, there there's a patter. BUT

1:12:31WELL, WE'RE NOT DOING THAT. [laughter] WE'RE STAYING at nicer hotels this time around. It's gotten it's gotten progressively worse. There's more and more places where you're like, "Too many people live here."

1:12:42We've had our We've We definitely have had some very interesting tour stories. And when we start regailing people with our tour stories, they like their eyes get really big and they're like, "What?" And I and I I thought that that was normal. And apparently it's

1:13:01Yeah. But we we've been barricaded ourselves in the room a number of time. It was just like what would $30 more get

1:13:09Yeah. It's it gets us bad and we're gay. Yeah. Yeah.

1:13:12So So we've, you know, as as needed, we've upgraded and gone like this is way better for my back, [clears throat]

1:13:20my sanity, [laughter]

1:13:23you know.

1:13:24Yeah. Yeah. Yep. I know. It's it's it is interesting cuz like um as you guys were sharing earlier just it's it is different and you have more freedom when there's a smaller group of people um when you're traveling um and you know you're like okay well you can obviously like have less accommodations but you know [clears throat] but then you can spend a little bit more for like you know

1:13:52Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, um, on on the tour that you have coming up, is it is it a a couple weeks, um, that you're going to be out at once or

1:14:02It's like we're we're out for for a little over a week and then we're like literally home for like five days and then we go out for a long weekend again. Um, so we like we go out on like September 1st um is like our first gig out. So, we're out from like the 1st through Oh, it's a week. So, the 1st through the 7th. So, we're doing like seven. We're doing a full week. And then I said like literally like we're just taking a couple days off and then we're doing like 17th, 18th, 19th in September. So, um so it's it's a nice, you know, two two goodiz runs. Um

1:14:40all the dates are on our website. We're we're going out to New Mexico, through Texas, down to New Orleans.

1:14:47Yeah. you know,

1:14:48and then and then and then we're doing a little Midwestern run,

1:14:51right? The Memphis, Little Rock, St.

1:14:55Yeah. Well, I mean, it's even when you have like the the time at home, if you're still in the middle of a run, it still feels like a tour. And I I find the longer that you go out, like Yeah. It's like you really do have to take care of yourself cuz it adds up.

1:15:10Yeah. And I I noticed that the closer we get to going out, especially when we go out for like a longer period, the more I become apprehensive about doing anything where it's like I you know what? I'm I won't I'm not going to go to that that thing or like

1:15:30I'm going to do a rock climbing gym.

1:15:32Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] It it's it's the like it's the I'm not going to do

1:15:37I'm going to pick up roller skating. But it's it's that I'm not going to try and lift that by myself or I'm not going to go to that healthy bar or, you know, I'm actually going to try and get a good night's sleep. You know, it's like the closer right right before we get to a tour, I get really apprehensive about anything that's going to get me sick. Anything that, you know, um because

1:15:58I'm going to do some stupid [ __ ]

1:16:00I just don't want to be,

1:16:02you know, I don't want to get super susceptible to strep and like and it will it will lay me out. It's the only thing that's like put me in the hospital, you know, and like I do not

1:16:11I don't want to be like Karen, I got sick cuz I did something dumb, you know that. And

1:16:16you know, cuz all that planning that went into the tour, all that promo, whatnot, [snorts]

1:16:21and then when we get back, we have to go right back out. Then it's basically like do laundry, bandage, and then, you know, go back out on the road.

1:16:30Yeah. Always.

1:16:30Yes. Yes. [laughter] Yeah. Fix it. Fix all the things. Yeah.

1:16:36Yeah. Well, Ivan, you mentioned um um doing all of the pre-production. Do you as well do the production on the actual

1:16:44Yeah, that that's really um [snorts] I mean we make our our recording process is really small. So, it's me, Karen, and Neil. There's no assistant. There's no like we move the baffling, we set up the mics. It is there's nobody else in there. And feels is wonderful to work with because he is just so dry and so

1:17:12he's done all of our recording.

1:17:14Yeah. You know,

1:17:15I I I'm recorded vocal. There's a line, prove you're not a ghost. And Neil cut back in was like just because they said they're a ghost doesn't What do you say something like doesn't mean that they're actually not a ghost. just

1:17:29but we we will go through the process and it's really like a

1:17:34if you're not if you're not performing you're listening to the other person and going yes no black white you know but I will have done all of the all the drums the any anything that I can ahead of time will have been worked

1:17:49the one thing that we don't touch like like Neil Neil records us he presses the buttons he does all the tracks and he makes is us. And then we have um we have a master a guy Carl Staff and he does all our mastering. So I mean we do all of our pre-production and we you know we're our own producers, right? But but when it comes to the recording, the engineering part of it and the mixing and the mastering like that goes to like I have old ears that are shot and I can't hear anything and I am not the one to mix anything. So that's that goes

1:18:26that goes in the hands of wonderful humans that we that we trust

1:18:31and we Yeah. They and they've done everything that Bellhead has has put

1:18:36Um we we definitely trust them to do do

1:18:40We're creatures of habit. Like it's that we've gone to the same recording studio for everything as well. So, uh, and you know [clears throat] that stuff is some stuff is more like you know, by all means, Neil, jog the levels on this. It's it's like things have been figured out. Like we we'll have tones. We know what EFFECT

1:19:02AND WE'RE COM Neil's comfortable with us where he will he will offer some producing and some some input as we're going through.

1:19:08If if I'm if I'm going I'm in between on two effects or how much should it be on this? Do you want me to track both? Do you want me? Just do the one, you know, like whatever it is, but it's a lot of like we work fast.

1:19:20It's a lot of, you know, we are in and out. It's kind of a let's get this done.

1:19:25cuz you you you guys do all of your own,

1:19:29Yeah. Scott Scott Scott does all of our producing and mixing, but um um Steve and Gordon records themselves. Um so like Steve has his own drum tracking that he does and Gordon does his own tracking as well, and then Scott pieces it all together. So yeah, it's it's the nice thing about having like um everybody that is good at the thing that they do. Um you know,

1:19:52I I am that's not me. I'm [laughter] not a I I wish I wish I had that skill, but that is not me. I I I book the tours. Um yeah,

1:20:01which is a skill.

1:20:02That's that is that is a hard skill. So that is a good that is a good

1:20:07Yeah. But um but I mean I think that's awesome that you have like a like solid group of people that you trust and that you know are on the same page because it makes such a difference when you're like okay like they get me and it makes things so much easier you know for sure. Um you mentioned some new songs that you're working on. So is there new material that you're thinking of putting out this year or early next year? nothing will be released in listenable mode to to download or purchase. We are we are writing currently. Um and we are working through new songs. Um our goal

1:20:46is to get into the studio in the winter.

1:20:50And then we'll see we'll see what we have. But we we don't have um it's funny. You ask my husband and he's going to be like we need a hit in the books for Christmas. We need a new song. Um but uh we we don't have anything we don't have a date set for anything right now. Um and it's and it's I we don't

1:21:10well the thing was was that because so everything Karen broke her arm and that sort of set the timeline off. So it's like the threats vinyl was supposed to come out last year. The video was supposed to come out last year. Then then that got pushed into this year and then we earlier this year we did the um uh the live release. So we recorded a live show, put that out.

1:21:34Yeah. For World Goth Day Online. That was a, you know, they were like, "Well, you can film." Well, we decided to go ahead and film and actually, so that actually went to Neil to mix and Carl to master rather than just being like, "Oh, here's, you know, we [clears throat] went full in on that and um put that out. So, we put more more production into that." And um as a kind of

1:22:00here's what we have at least this and we put out the the Empty came out this year, right? Yeah, we did that cover. So, um, so there's nothing there probably. I mean, well, right. And I don't want to say with certainty there's nothing else coming out, but um,

1:22:14you made me think about it. I'm like, is

1:22:18uh, but we are we are working on new songs and they are I'm really excited about a lot of them that are

1:22:23there's a whole bunch of them and I can't remember what they all are.

1:22:28We literally learned one today.

1:22:29Yeah. Yeah.

1:22:33that's so awesome. I love it. I I I think it's probably Are you going to be trying it out on the road or um

1:22:39We have been We've been So at all of our all of our shows this year, we've we've snuck in songs. So

1:22:49the thing actually, SO

1:22:51BUT WE'RE NOT SAYING IT. So you you got

1:22:54the thing was was that when we did our first show, we had already recorded

1:22:58without playing any of it live, which it don't because we're so

1:23:03live performance and then

1:23:06the pandemic happened. So again, we went and recorded

1:23:09and hadn't performed any of it live. So we've been so much of us has been not able to play stuff live. It wasn't until the most recent record that we actually got to play stuff live

1:23:22before we recorded it.

1:23:24And that was really nice cuz it was like good. Okay, we got to road test it and that that changed like the shape of the vocal performance for Heart-Shaped Hole. And it was like it just

1:23:35that's how we like to be. But we also don't like to be like, "Hey, this is a new song." Because part of the audience is going, "Oh, these are new songs to me. I don't know." you know. So, yeah,

1:23:45we [snorts] just kind of we'll sneak a song in there and we'll play it for a

1:23:51get the feedback we need for us,

1:23:54and then move on, [clears throat] you

1:23:56Yeah. Yeah. I' I love I love testing out wrote songs on the road because it's like you know I mean like you were saying earlier Karen like sometimes songs just belong in the studio and you know and it doesn't mean that it shouldn't go onto an album but yeah it is always kind of nice to get the feedback and the feeling of like oh we we could try something different out like if it didn't work out like with the intro or whatever you know

1:24:20part part of it the audience but part of it just the having it on stage and having the like it in the set and like the kind of the adrenal the pressure of the moment you suddenly go,

1:24:33"Oh, this part's too long

1:24:35or or this isn't working or you know whatever it is, you snaps into focus."

1:24:44Yeah. Totally. Yeah. It's there's there is something about it and and like you were saying earlier like because you guys are a live band, you know, I'm sure that really informs, you know, the music, you know. So yeah. Yeah. Same same with us. Like it's just, you know, I it's the part that I love. I mean, I love the actual like getting together and playing and working things out. So Yeah. Yeah. I think that's Yeah. So, and it's I think it's it's awesome because I think you guys are the only project that I know where it's it's two bases. It's so unique and that's such a

1:25:20unique vibe and sound, you know.

1:25:23Yeah. I know there is um there's one

1:25:26there's got to be another

1:25:27there well there's one on the west coast somewhere that's messaged me and they're like where two bases too but like one of them is like one of those weird ass like eight string or 12 string or like you know the neck is

1:25:39is it one of those where the frets are

1:25:40it's not like a Chapman stick but it's close to it. Um, but no, I mean there's definitely been bands that have had two bass players, but no one that's ever just been

1:25:52two bass players.

1:25:53Yeah. Well, with the um Threats video with you playing upright, like, have you ever brought that out on on some of

1:26:00No, not not on the road. There's no room. Yeah, because it takes up it's just monstrous. Um, but I have um in other capacities I've I've played it I've performed live with a with an upright before.

1:26:13it would be cool, but it there there's no there's no possible way you could do that for for a tour. Like I maybe a one off in Chicago and that way we'd be home and local so we could drive separately, but yeah, not on the road.

1:26:27Yeah. By the way, um speaking of of road again, um I saw Dave in the chat mentioning that pickles happened at every at every gas station stop. I love pickles, too. I'm like, yes. [laughter] I even get the pickles. The pickle the bag pickles.

1:26:46I get those or we go cuz we go to these um we find places like Grandpa's Cheese

1:26:54In what is that? Ohio.

1:26:56And I'll get jars of pickles and it it's my contraband. I like other people go on tour and they find I don't know and I buy Amish soap and pickles like I Okay. WE LOVE. SO, ONE OF ONE OF THE GREAT THINGS ABOUT SORRY. ONE OF the great things about us is like when we have downtime, we like to do fun stuff and that includes like Hey, hey, Ivan, do you want to go to an antique store?

1:27:21So, so this this So, okay. So, Karen has been on this this tear about [laughter] I'm going to buy a tour sword

1:27:28sword tour and I am like no, we cannot buy a sword on tour. No, absolutely not. So, we're in an antique store in Indiana, I think, in the morning and Karen goes to the bathroom and I find an oldtimey soda and I don't really drink soda, but old timey soda is

1:27:48because I'm I'm a I'm an old man who likes, you know, oh, you know, a great beehive, whatever. So, there's this child, literally like the child of the owner is working with cash wrap. And I go to pay for this and I turn my head and on the wall is a picture of Alice in the antique store buying a sword and then a picture of him on stage with the sword. And I do this double I'm like, that's Uncle Al. And the and the kid goes, I don't know who that is. And [laughter] I'm like, but the at the and the I think the child's like mother owns

1:28:27the antique store. She goes, "Oh, he golfs near here." So Karen comes out and I'm still going. And then Karen goes, "This means I got a sword. I can't argue with Uncle Alice."

1:28:44I mean,

1:28:46he goes antiquing. So, so hopefully hopefully I will finally get my tour swords this year. That's my goal.

1:28:54So, we've learned that antiquing is very rock and roll.

1:28:57Uncle Alice and it goes goes antiquing

1:28:59in Indiana.

1:29:00And Karen is going to get a tour sword.

1:29:04I love this. I love this. And also, the great minds think alike. So,

1:29:10Yes. Yes.

1:29:11Yeah. That's

1:29:14so fun.

1:29:15So maybe in this upcoming tour, the tour sword will present itself to you.

1:29:20I'm hoping. And it's it's because I can't force it, right? Like I because I've been talking about a tour sword for almost two years now. And um and I can't like everyone's like, "Well, why don't you just go online and buy a sword?" I'm like, "That's not the point. It has to it needs to present itself like Excalibur and The Lady in the Lake." Like I want to be in the middle of nowhere in Kansas and we roll up and there's like an old man that's on the side of the road with like a blanket in the intersection in these in these swords laid out and I'm going to be like

1:29:56that's that's my Excalibur. It's like that that place,

1:30:01you know, and it's going to be like it's it's like $100 and I'm going to like find the change in my pocket and

1:30:06like that place we were in New Mexico that we're pretty much sure was like an offbrand arms dealer.

1:30:11Yeah. Yeah. So, so but but yeah, so hopefully um so if anything in 20 2026 it's um you're gonna drink Malort with us um and I'm going to get a sword

1:30:22because we find these places where it's like I think we're in like we're at Boomtown and it's these things where it's like it's like five knives for the price of three. And I'm like I would like a knife that's that's looks like America, but I get kind of overwhelmed and I'm like I I do love knives but how many do I need? And and it's that with because we we are plenty of places where there are swords, but it's like is this the tour? Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's not that simple. Like

1:30:50and even like so I just we just went I just went out on the weekend um Dave and I and and our kids like we we we went to St. Louis for the weekend and uh and we of course went to an antique shop and even the kids know about the tour. So we're going to the [laughter] shop and they point and there's like Karen there's there's katanas you could get your tour sort. And I'm like, "No, cuz this isn't tour, so it will come."

1:31:15I'm very much looking forward to [laughter] hearing hearing the story when it finally Yes. when it actually finally converges.

1:31:23The complicated rules of tour is just

1:31:27Yeah. It's uh

1:31:29No, it's when it's meant to be, it's meant to be. It's like the cat distribution system. Like it will come to your 100%. It was like the the time we were like we're going to get we're going to get band tattoos on tour and then the Swifties got in the way.

1:31:42And I was like well that ain't happening. Um there's ne nothing ever been more dangerous that happened to us on tour than being in New Orleans at the same time as Taylor Swift.

1:31:51Oh wow. Okay. Wow.

1:31:56It's a thing. It's a thing.

1:31:57It's a whole thing. Yeah.

1:31:59It is. It actually is. We that happened to us in Seattle and it really it changed the whole traffic like how we were able to get to the venue. Yeah.

1:32:09Well, they were in the quarter. They apparently will just stop

1:32:12anywhere just like on the sidewalk in the street like it's just

1:32:17okay. You've taken over literally.

1:32:21And New Orleans is not easy to navigate as it is. So yeah.

1:32:26No. Well, I that's kind of like my second home. So, I can get us around pretty well. But, no, it's it's a difficult city for sure.

1:32:34What's What is What is the hardest city for you that you find?

1:32:39You mean in terms of driving around or

1:32:41Yeah. Yeah.

1:32:44Um, you know, it's interesting because Scott is from New York and New Jersey and Gordon's from Pittsburgh. So, like they're actually really good with like big city driving. Um it's it's different for me because I'm from a little town in Texas. So I'm just like paralyzed with I'm like ah so many people. [laughter] Yeah. But we've been lucky to tell you the truth. Like you would think New York especially would be hard, but we've been so lucky with the parking fairies.

1:33:12So yeah. Yeah.

1:33:16Yeah. We have we have kind of rules. So, um I will drive I drive the mountains. I love driving. I love driving mountains. Um it brings me a lot of joy. And I I generally do the big cities. Um Ivan will take 14 hours on a straight flat road or he, you know, he'll do he'll do all of Nebraska.

1:33:39And then

1:33:40And in turn I will do two hours in, you know. Well, I drove I drove from Chicago to Chattanooga and it was like Yeah, I'm

1:33:49it was just

1:33:53Do you listen to the podcast together out loud or is this Are you usually in

1:33:58Well, we have a we have a lot of We have a music pack. We We bring CDs. Um and

1:34:03so fun.

1:34:04It's It's a lot of like Karen likes to yell industrial music when like a Billy Joel record goes in or something, you [laughter] know? It's like it's it's a lot of like what's we both pack.

1:34:16We don't tell each other what we're packing. So, we both have these like CD cases that fit like 30 CDs,

1:34:22which is funny. Then we go there's overlap and it's like oh but you you kind of pack stuff that is you you know going to work for everybody like not nothing too we need to keep the energy up you know we need to kind of keep uh and then then there's stuff where it's like I need this while I'm driving like there was that time where you were taking us to the haunted Scooby-Doo place and you like you needed your poison record like we are going to die tonight and it was like okay let's get this on you know um

1:34:52we always Bowie like like Bowie is always packed. Um and it's it's funny so because we're we're huge we're both heavily influenced David Bowie and again like Bow's catalog is

1:35:03huge. Um

1:35:06and talking about kind of the CD overlap and again we don't tell we don't tell each other. So I'm like I'm going to find these like weird Bowie things and I'm going to I'm going to pack them. And so like one time this one time I packed I'm like I'm going to pack Tin Machine cuz I haven't listened to Tin Machine for a while and we get in the car and we're flipping through and he packed You

1:35:27it was a live boy. Yeah. He packed the Tin Machine live album and then I packed the Tin Machine.

1:35:35We've both packed the same Billy Joel CD at the same time. Like we've both had the Stranger in our packs at the same time. Um, we do a lot of like um movie soundtracks. Like the the soundtracks from the 90s and 2000s were just [ __ ] bangers. Like, God bless that Spawn soundtrack, you know? [laughter] Like, it's so much fun to revisit.

1:35:56The Josie and the Pussycat soundtrack will come with us, you know? Uh,

1:36:00yeah. Don't be fooled. We're not like super tough. We we we will sing along to Josie and [laughter] there's a lot there's a lot of Depes Mode Placebo, you know. It's a lot of And then we'll then we'll get into I mean we also go on a lot of tangent side quests where the music gets turned down. We're talking about old episodes of MacGyver. Yeah. Um

1:36:22and then it's led to us being on a podcast about MacGyver, you know. So that's that's a whole another thing. We

1:36:29you got to keep it fun and keep it interesting, you know.

1:36:32So yeah,

1:36:33there there's a lot of the you know, and then you know how you get a couple days into tour, you can get kind of loopy. So then that that happens. Um or I'm driving and I have Karen text me these lyrics that I'm coming up with, you know, whatever that is. Uh but yeah, it just a lot of what? But yeah, sometimes we do listen to we do listen to podcasts and then if I'm if I'm in the back working then I have headphones on. So you and Dave are doing

1:37:00God only knows what we're doing.

1:37:02Yeah. [laughter]

1:37:04But it sounds like you guys have a lot of fun on tour and that's that's awesome. It's, you know,

1:37:09we have to we go crazy.

1:37:10You know what? If you if you don't enjoy it, then you know,

1:37:14then don't do it, [clears throat]

1:37:15you know. That's

1:37:18you have to once once once it is I mean it's a job, right? But if you're not if you don't enjoy it, if you don't have

1:37:25then don't then don't go on the road. It's not for you. And it's it's not for everybody. But I think for us it is. And it's and it's a blast

1:37:32because once you get to, you know, once you get to showtime, like you need to be ready to interact with people and and you know, be ready to meet and greet and entertain and whatnot, you know? So, it's like get get your sleep, get your grumpy out in the vehicle and then, you know, [laughter]

1:37:50whatnot. And uh but also it's like just not be shitty to each other, you know,

1:37:58Sometimes you need to have some space but not too much space. Like go over there but not out of sight, you know?

1:38:06Yeah. I mean it's it's I think it's so important cuz like not everyone travels well together. Um you know, you're in a moving box for however much time, right? in tight quarters and yeah, it's like you you it's like either you vibe together or you don't. It isn't or it isn't, you know? So, yeah.

1:38:29Yeah. Well, um my friends, uh I think we're coming close to kind of that time, but are there any um first of all, um what is what is your preferred way of people um interacting with you? Do you prefer like your website directly or certain platforms?

1:38:48We are we are on all platforms. Um we monitor them pretty regularly. Um I always say, you know, if there if there's one website for you to memorize, you could just go to bellhead.com, go to our website and then it has links for everything. Um but we we keep our branding throughout. So, Facebook, Insta, um X, Blue Sky, it's all back slashbellhead Band. Um, and then we're on um, you know, we're on all streaming platforms, so you can get us obviously on Band Camp, and that's where you can get we can get physical merch, too. Uh, but we're we're on all the streaming services. And then, um, our music videos

1:39:29are on YouTube. So, But we respond pretty regularly on what whichever platform of your desire.

1:39:37Yeah. Yeah. It's it's pretty great because like um I I um well I first met you guys um at the Madison show at the Crucible. Um and but it's it's awesome because I feel like you guys are so good at being able to interact and engage with your community. So, it's like, you know, like Karen was saying, any platform that you want to like, you know, learn more about Bellhead and get to know them more, um, by all means do. They are wonderful, amazing humans, um, awesome artists and an amazing show. Like, it's a really fun, awesome show.

1:40:12I mean, the the feeling is 100% mutual. Absolutely. You know, you guys, we

1:40:17we love you guys. We love your music. We love performing with you. Your shows are fantastic. And the same like I what I what I what I have a lot of respect for for all of you on is like you're you're the same way that we are where like the show ends and you are you are at the merch booth. You are interacting with people. You are talking to people. You're taking the time to do photos and things and it

1:40:38and it is so important and to be a kind human being. It's it's it's so important these days. So we love you guys.

1:40:46Yeah. Oh likewise. Likewise. It's it's so awesome. I'm so grateful that um you know we we met each other and we've been friends this whole time. So yeah, I really appreciate that you guys took the time to to hang out and chat. I know you guys are probably really really busy getting ready for your upcoming tour and you know all the things. So thank you for for taking the time.

1:41:08Yeah, thanks for letting us thanks for letting us hang out.

1:41:12Yeah, absolutely. Well, my dear friends, um thank you all so much for hanging out with us. Um we are going to be um resuming Unwritten Rules of the Road on August 2nd. We're going to have Knight on um the Guys and Knights. Um so that'll be our next episode. Um but um please if you are in um a city that Bhut is coming through um go to the show um hang out with them, find out if Karen is has gotten her tour sword. [laughter] I feel like somebody after like maybe somebody will actually bring that to a show like

1:41:48No, don't bring sort [laughter] of that's you're you're you probably that's probably illegal. [laughter]

1:41:58So, okay. Yes. But yeah, we we shall we shall continue the saga of [laughter] this sort.

1:42:06Yes. Well, many many loves everybody and thank you for supporting Unwritten Rules of the Road and live music and our wonderful friends. So, we will see you next time.