Jet / Founder of Dark Force Fest and VampireFreaks, in full

2:13Hi friends. This is Unwritten Rules of the Road. I am Tash and we are joined today by the amazing Jet. Um Jet, thank you so much for joining us today. Really excited to have you. Thanks for having me. I'm excited.

2:32So, Jet um it has created many universes. Um [laughter] um I know um a lot of people would would know you from Vampire Freaks. Um and more recently, Dark Force Fest. Um yes, it's incredible how many worlds that you've built.

2:53Wow. It's like I'm building matrixes or something here.

2:55I know. [laughter] Out of curiosity actually, like did you ever kind like when you started um I guess going to Vampire Freaks, like when you started, did you have any idea that you were like building a bit of a

3:13Um, no. I mean, kind of just like it's not ever like I really like planned it out a certain way, you know? It's kind of just like

3:22started out for fun, you know? It just started out as like a small project I did in college and just wanted to kind of have a little part of the internet dedicated to goth stuff. I'd have like pictures of my spooky friends and like a little message board and yeah, just kind of did it for fun.

3:42Yeah, I I love that. That's kind of like has been your guiding force cuz like it seems that you have a lot of joy when you put together like Dark Force Fest for instance. So

3:54yeah, I love it. Like I mean it's so much work and there's definitely been times where I'm like, "Okay, I'm not doing this anymore. It's just too much work." Or and then um I think what really is the best part is like the feedback we got from the attendees. It's just like everybody just loves it. Like you look around, everybody's having a good time. And I think that really brings me joy as like seeing that like okay I'm a part of this event that people are just like really loving and um yeah I really enjoy it.

4:26It really shows. I I will say that I mean I know you work really really hard but um we experienced Dark Force Fest a few years ago and I I was just so impressed that you took the time to like ask me like how's it going? Are you know is everything okay? Are you having a good time? And I mean, I'm sure you were swamped with like a million people, but it was really sweet that you took the time to check in. So,

4:51of course, like I try, you know, like definitely I make it a point to at least catch like some of every band's performance and you know, try to try to just like soak it all in and uh you know, try to make those connections. And hey, you guys were amazing. Like, you guys had a really good crowd and like just put on a great show. I was impressed. Thank you. I appreciate that.

5:15Thank you. Like, how did the event go for you guys?

5:18It was amazing. Like, you know, again, like it was our first time, so when you experience something for the first time, it's like, okay, I you have no expectations, right?

5:28Um, you know, I mean, we had had friends that had performed there before and loved it. Um, you know, so, but like I it was so amazing. It felt like a reunion. like, you know, we stepped in and just saw just so many wonderful friends. Um, you know, got to meet new people and it was such a great way to meet people, too, I thought.

5:49Yeah. Yeah, it was great. You guys, you guys have a really good vibe. You got really good energy, so it's cool.

5:55Thank you.

5:57You guys kind of like did like a little tour around it, right?

6:01Yeah. Yeah. Since we're coming from LA, um, we we like to build tours to get us there and back. So, totally. Yeah.

6:08So, you guys like travel across the

6:12Yeah. That's awesome.

6:13Yeah. It's it is one of those things where it's it's fun because I look at the map and I'm like, "Okay, how many spots can I fit in?" Um, you know, and so we try to hit as many as we can to get us there and back. So,

6:25yeah. That's cool. I respect that. Like, totally. Like just

6:30going across the country like that's an adventure, you know?

6:33It is. It is for sure. It's it's such a cool way too to like experience parts of the country that you normally wouldn't cuz you know there's all the cities in between that normally you either fly through or you know so it's it's a really really great way to experience like a lot of different parts of the country. So yeah

6:53that's cool.

6:55Yeah. And there's amaz it's like it really is amazing the live music community. I think it's it's really thriving. So, it's really great to see support of like live music like that. So, yeah.

7:06Yeah, that's cool. And I mean, you guys have like the feel like you've got like the fan like marketing thing kind of down, which is cool. So, I respect that.

7:17Thank you.

7:20Community you're building, so I dig it.

7:22I appreciate it. Yeah, it's it's I I I love that you bring up the the community aspect because I feel like you definitely are a community builder yourself and um yeah, just from what I was reading about your inspiration behind Vampire Freaks, it was like find it's like you find your pockets of where you fit in and you find your fellow your fellow people that are into like, you know, the things that that they can relate to what you're into. Um so yeah

7:52yeah it's all about you know just supporting the scene and you know just yeah like having that connections with people you know.

8:03Yeah absolutely. Yeah. I'm sure that like um with Dark Forcefest it this is you've Was this your third or fourth year running this past year?

8:16Uh I don't know. I feel like I've kind of lost track.

8:20Yeah, I

8:22it was like kind of we were doing like Dark Side of the Con and then we switched it over Dark Force Fest to make it look more of like a music festival.

8:30And I want to say yes, it's like the I think this year we just did the fourth one. I want to say I could be wrong. I'd have to see. I want to say we just did the fourth one and now we're playing the fifth one.

8:43That's exciting.

8:44Yeah, it's going great. I mean, the feedback's been awesome. Like, and I feel like every year gets a little bit easier, which is cool. Like, in terms of like the logistics, like the um, you know, the sound, the lights, the planning, like the managing like the schedules and all that. It's been, you know, even like the security and the staff. I feel like we kind of like build on the previous year each time

9:11and um you know we we bring in like good people to help out, you know, like we we kind of like build up like a more solid crew each year and kind of just like even get like new performers. And last time we um we added the outdoor area. Oh, you guys haven't seen it yet. So, we added like an outdoor area which is kind of like uh behind the building.

9:40And we added like a big tent and like a new stage and it was uh Yeah, it was a big hit. Like we did like a bunch of like drag shows out there which is kind of cool cuz like you don't normally see like drag shows like outdoors like in the daylight and even the drag performers are joking about like you know this is the only time they got sunshine.

10:04That's awesome.

10:05Yeah, it was great. We did like a bunch of stuff outside and like food trucks and um yeah, it was a good time like be able to kind of like spread out a little

10:14Yeah, that's really cool cuz I um when we were there there was a really awesome like outdoor patio with different food trucks, but um it sounds like it's really expanded. So yeah.

10:26Yeah, you're right. We had like the food trucks on the side of the parking lot still, but like now we have like a whole area that's like actually behind the building. And um yeah, I think we'll bring it back next time because it was a we had really good feedback on it.

10:39Yeah, I think it's awesome that um like you were saying, you've been building your team. Um because it's like when you start finding a flow with the people that you're working with, it feels like Yeah. It's like you it's like you there's so much more that you can create from there. So yeah. Yeah, for sure. And um yeah, and it's like we have a really good crew and uh yeah, I feel like appreciate everybody working with us, you know, it's it's been really good. And and it it's you know it takes some time to really build like a good crew because like you know like

11:14not everybody's great you know like I hate to say you know like some people they might have like the initial enthusiasm but like maybe not

11:23the actual work ethic

11:26and be able to like you know come through but um so yeah it takes a little bit of time to actually like build like solid reliable like competent people that can you know take concert and

11:39Absolutely. And it it is a huge undertaking. Um because to be able to like take over the whole whole hotel, you know, um which is awesome. Like of all the festivals that we've been a part of, um this one's amazing because it's like you it's just like at the hotel.

11:57Um yeah. So I imagine there's just like a million logistics you have to figure

12:03Yeah. I mean, we love it. So, there's like definitely pros and cons to it. Like the awesome thing about the hotel is like we take over all the hotel rooms. So, we've got like it's like 370 hotel rooms that are just only our people. So, it kind of like it's almost like a big sleepover party for three

12:22And um

12:25so, and it's kind of like yeah, it's like our own kind of almost like a bubble that we form, you know, for those three days, which is fun. Um the difficult part is it's not like a real music venue. So we have to bring in all the sound, all the lights, we have to set up the stages.

12:43So um whereas like if we were at like a traditional venue, all that stuff would already be there, you know, we set up. So um

12:53I think that's the challenge for us. But, um, yeah, I mean, it's been working out, you know. Um, you know, we just, you know, every year we work to improve it a little bit each year. You know, we try to get the try to get the lights down a little bit better each year or we get, you know, or whatnot. And, um, that's been good. And we even like, you know, we reconfigure the space a little bit to mix it up.

13:17Yeah. That's really cool. Um, oh, Crucifera, by the way, is is is sending some love, saying, "Amazing to see it grow from the first Triton to what it is today." Go, Jet.

13:28Okay. Thank you, Christopher. Appreciate

13:30Yeah. It was like 2010 was the first one. So, it's been a journey. Wow. Like 16 years now. Crazy stuff.

13:39That's amazing. Wow. What was Triton like?

13:44Triton, it was in Brooklyn. The first one was in like uh it was like Coney Island, Brighton Beach area. Yeah, it was like Brighton Beach, close to Coney Island and it was at like a Russian like wedding kind of venue, but it was a big venue and it's funny like I look back at like the the lineup we had and we had like all these like big industrial bands from Europe and whatnot. I'm like, "Wow, we had a really great lineup." I mean, we always have a good life, but like for our first like big festival, we totally crushed it, which is cool. And um yeah,

14:20we did one in 2010 and it was awesome. People loved it and we totally lost our shirts financially. Like it was a huge flop. But in terms of like the actual event, it was a huge success because it was just so fun. It's just I mean you know how expensive these things are you know like especially like you know it's just like everything all the expenses add up so I kind of like just wanted to go all out do like a really great festival and you know it's just I lost I don't know I think the first one lost like over 30 grand or something like that.

15:00Yeah. But it was awesome. And then I was like, "Okay, that was a huge finish of failure." So, we stopped doing it. And then 2013, tried it again at like Irving Plaza in New York. And I was like a that was like a big Live Nation venue. So, you know, more of like a legit venue. And that one also was awesome. We packed it out. Like it was like super packed out. Great event, but also a huge financial failure But uh but yeah, I mean I think uh part of it was like you know Live Nation really nickeled and dimeded us on all these extra fees every expect.

15:38I think there's always like extra fees you don't expect. But um it was great. You know, all the bands loved it. All the attendees loved it and uh it was fun and um yeah, I don't know. It's been like definitely a journey over years of doing events, you know, like um and uh just kind of learning, you know, like what works, what doesn't work, trying to improve each time. But yeah, that's awesome that, you know, some people still remember Trident Festival and stuff like that cuz yeah, it was great times. I loved it.

16:11I I think it's amazing that because, you know, many people after a failure would just step away. Um I I was curious like what made you keep on going and go like okay let's let's build from there.

16:24Yeah. Um I think I just really enjoyed it. Like it was like even though it did so poorly financially, people just really like raved about it. people had a lot of fun and I had a lot of fun even though you know it was you know did so poorly but um yeah that's why I kind of like you know took took a break for three years before doing the second one and then second one also did poorly financially then I took another break and then we tried Dark Side of the Con like a few years later and then eventually Dark Force Fest. So, um, you're right. I I mean, you know, I'll

17:05probably most people be like, "Oh, man, that really sucked for my bank account, so I'm not going to do that again, [laughter] you know, going debt and all that." But, um,

17:16yeah, I don't know. I guess it's kind of like sometimes you just got to take chances. I feel like I kind of like I like to take risks, you know, take some chances. I mean, I feel like you kind of that's how you make stuff happen is you got to take risks, you know? Totally.

17:32And it doesn't always work out, you know, like I've dealt a lot of failures, you know. I I admit I've had a ton of failures, but that's how you learn. And you know, you got to you got to take risks or you know, you're not going to do anything, I guess. You know.

17:45Yeah, it's true. Absolutely. Yeah,

17:52That's cool. You got a couple people in the chat. Look at that.

17:56Yes. Yes.

17:58Casper. Cool.

18:00The space was huge and now it's um net cost market um aka big super Russian market too.

18:08But yeah,

18:11people still have the flyers and t-shirts from those two events. Oh, I love that. That is awesome.

18:18That's awesome.

18:19Yeah, it's funny. I see people like that have like they collect like the Dark Vers bracelets for example and I'm like that's kind of cool, you know? I've seen people post like, "I've been wearing this bracelet for five or six months." I'm like, "It must be pretty grimy after all your [laughter]

18:37Hey, that's cool. I respect that. That's

18:41Well, I think it's like when you have an experience that is it's such a positive experience and, you know, you make a lot of special memories and and you know, connect with people in in that way. Like I could totally see why like a grimy bracelet would be continued to be worn.

18:59I've totally been there though. Like I've done that, you know, like um I remember what's up. Wave Gothic TF when I was like in my early 20s, you know, back in the day. And like, oh, I want to keep this bracelet on. It's just Yeah, it's just like, you know, you want to remember those experiences. So, I got it's awesome.

19:17Yeah. I actually um did Wave Gothic kind of inspire you um in terms of your own

19:24Um I mean definitely like you know I'd say I' like anybody like I pull in inspiration from you know other things. Um and uh I mean I'd say like it would almost like you know obviously like we can't even compare to Wave Gothic Treon because they got like 30,000 people. with like a huge [clears throat] thing with like a hundred venues. But uh definitely like you know events I've been to like other big events I've been to have definitely been an inspiration you know and I'd say you know um I remember like um kinetic festival back in the in the day was an inspiration like you know we used to go

20:05there and vend at that event

20:07and uh you know we'd be involved with with um yeah doing the vending there and um yeah like I like to take inspo from other events Or like I'm sure like you can relate as a musician like you even like attending like a concert you kind of like analyze like okay how are they doing like the sound and the lights and like the security like how are they like you know handling like the backline the equipment and stuff you know so um that's kind of like little things you notice that maybe like the average person might not quite notice because they haven't really seen behind the

20:44scenes stuff.

20:46Yeah. For sure.

20:48Yeah, it is interesting like um the things that you will notice and and it shows like the things that you really care about where you're like, "Okay, how are they how are they doing the lights? How are they doing?" You know, things like that. So,

21:01for sure. I've always like had that stuff. But yeah, it's just interesting.

21:06Yeah, it's cool. Um uh X X Micro Micro Mos X, sorry if I mispronounce. um is saying, "Shout out QXTs for the pre-party." That's awesome.

21:22And um

21:24Casper Productions VR says, "It's created memories and lifelong friendships for life. I love that."

21:33Yay. And we have like such a positive community, you know, which I really appreciate, you know. I definitely like appreciate all the support. And it's just I think that's one thing that just like keeps me going is like, you know, I know that people just have such a great time. People are just so positive and it's just like it's just a really good vibe, you know, and like I appreciate that.

21:57Absolutely. I mean, I'm sure it's like one of those things where it's like when you when you experience such a great feedback, um it is thing even though it's challenging and like you were saying a lot of work. Um it feels I think probably very gratifying to know like hey I'm creating this awesome place where people can come together in that

22:18Yeah. And I think, you know, that's always been important to me too is just like fostering like just good energy and just positivity and um just like everywhere, you know, not even just at like Dark Force Fest, like like at the Vampire Freaks Warehouse, it's important that everybody like all the staff there just like you know, I want them to actually have like a positive experience at work, you know, like you know, so we you know, we try to take care about everybody and um like like the bands for example when they come to Dark Force Fest we want to make sure they have a good time you know

22:59that's very important to us that they feel that we actually care about them and that you know we're actually looking out for them because I know like they like you know like they don't always have the best experience on tour you know stuff might get overlooked and Um, it's funny like um, you know, bands will have like requests like on their writer or whatnot and like we'll get it for them and bands will be like, "Wow, you actually got the stuff we requested." That that never happens. U, so yeah, I think that's important that people have a positive experience. And I think like one thing I a little

23:42um think about for like stuff like Dark Force Fest is like there's so many people and like you have such a like short time to interact with people a lot of the time

23:54and that you don't realize that that two-minute interaction with somebody is going to actually form their entire view of you as a person because that's the only interaction they've had with you.

24:06Yeah. So, um, yeah, it's like I think that it's something to kind of keep in mind that you want to you want to form positive impressions with people, especially when you know you're only going to have like limited time with them, you know?

24:22Absolutely. It's it's so true. I mean, and you never know the impact that you can have on a person like for a whole day. Like you if it's positive or negative, like it can go either way. And um yeah, it's amazing how powerful that small amount of time can be,

24:39right? And like I'm sure like if you're meeting like a fan like I mean you guys have a great fan so I'm sure like you know when you're meeting a fan like that's something you kind of think about like okay like the small interaction with this person are going to be thinking about it and like that's that's going to form their opinion of you and your band and affect how much they like your band and stuff, you know.

25:01Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I I've had like really great inspiration from other artists and you know artists that I've looked up to and so when I've when I've met them um it's really inspired me where I'm like oh my gosh you've inspired me as an artist and it's nice to be able to like carry that energy forward. So yeah.

25:22Cool. Yeah. You've probably met some crazy cool like big artists, right? Like do you have any stories?

25:29Oh boy. [laughter] Um, I'm okay. I'll have to think about this, but um there's been quite a few. But yeah, like um I think honestly I mean even on Unwritten Rules, just some of the artists that I've gotten to chat with are artists that I've I've really looked up to and Yeah.

25:48No problem.

25:49Yeah. And artists that we've been able to like play with, too. Like it's incredible when you have those convergent moments like where you're like, "Oh my gosh, I'm sharing the same stage as this artist I've looked up to for years." You know?

26:02Oh yeah, totally. I've had moments like that too where I've like worked with artists like uh like one example for me was Stab and Westward. I remember cuz like I was such a huge fan of them in the 90s like as a And like then when I got to work with it was kind of like kind of surreal, you know, cuz like I guess like you know, like I saw them on MTV, you know, like that's like it almost seems like a unattainable thing like oh these guys are huge and popular and whatnot and then they were like super nice, you know, like it's like you know it's cool

26:42like you know you meet these bands and they're just real people and just like really nice and down to Earth and um yeah, it's just kind of a cool

26:53I love that you brought up stabbing westward because we actually used to share practice space with um the dreaming. So this is Chris Hall's other

27:03um with Mankind is obsolete and so we play um Alice played at Mechanism with Stabbing Westward

27:10and Chris remembered me which I was like oh my gosh he remembered me [laughter] and he actually watched our set and I was like so blown away by just how kind you know very kind he was. So

27:23Yeah. Yeah.

27:24Yeah. Yeah. They're awesome.

27:27Awesome. What's going on with obsolete? So, is it pretty much all Alice now? I'm

27:32So, John, our drummer, John Siren, um, is our drummer for Mankind, and he tours all the time. So, he's like always on tour with IMX or Frontline Assembly. And

27:42I mean, he drums for every project pretty much. [laughter] Um, and so, yeah, it's like it's actually we've been talking about wanting to um, record some things. So, I think when the ashes settle, maybe later this year, we're actually talking about doing some some new music. So, yeah,

28:01that's cool.

28:02John Sirens are like every bed.

28:05He is. Him and Eric Goddisman. I feel like it's like every single band.

28:10that's pretty cool.

28:12It seems like um drummers in particular soon to be in high demand or something because they wind up being like five or six different bands. [laughter]

28:19It's true, Yeah, it's it's true. For sure. Yeah, especially and he's an awesome drummer.

28:27yeah, for sure. He's a good guy.

28:30Jennifer from area. Hello,

28:32Jennifer. [gasps]

28:35he rocks.

28:36Oh, I love

28:38Jed is the absolute best to work with as a band. I agree. Like, he's Yes, absolutely agree. I had Arian here as well um with Eric. So,

28:48Oh, I love it. Yeah, speaking of reunions, [laughter]

28:55oh man,

28:56we had the first

28:59uh we booked area I want to say like 20 years ago, like over 20 years ago and like some like restaurant in New York. [laughter] That's like one of the first shows I ever did in New York. But yeah, it was so fun. So that's cool. We got some history. We go way back.

29:14That's awesome. Yes,

29:16that's awesome. And actually funny uh thing about Eric Godisman, he was our system administrator for Vampire Freaks for a while because he's got like background. So it was kind of like the the tech side kind of like melded with the industrialist side for a little while. So that was pretty neat.

29:37That's really cool. Yeah.

29:38Yeah. You did a great job. He's a total total tech geek. I love it.

29:42I love I love the full circle. I do think that we really live in a very small world. Like our our the world is much smaller than we realize, you know.

29:55Yeah, you're right. That's totally true. Yeah. There's always like like weird coincidences and connections.

30:04when you're like, "Oh, you know that person, too."

30:08Right. That's true. Sometimes like something's like just such a weird coincidence and I'm like, "Maybe we really are in a simulation. I know, right? [laughter] The Matrix exists.

30:22That's cool.

30:23Yeah. Yeah.

30:25Somebody says Priest and Ultrasound are top two bands at the fest. Cool. Cool. Good choices.

30:32I haven't seen Ultra Sun, but um I saw Priest with um aesthetic perfection and Yeah, they're awesome.

30:38Oh, yeah. They're fun. Super nice, too. So, that's cool.

30:42Yeah. Yeah.

30:44It's funny. Like you see them on stage, they got like the masks on, you're like, "Wow, these guys are badasses."

30:50And then you meet them and they're just like super nice guys.

30:55I love it. I I love that. I love the mask part because you just never know like you can be any person

31:00part too. Yeah. Then he goes around and like does like the cross on everybody that sign gets in the crowd. That's pretty neat. So, I know that um a big part of Dark Forcefest is um the vendors that you have. Um like I was really struck when we were there just how many like diverse it was so cool like all these different artisans that came together um that had all these different stands and I I thought that was a really big part of what really enriched Dark Force Fest.

31:30Yeah, the vendors are great. Uh we have we got a ton of vendor applications which is awesome. So, we actually kind of got to pick and choose the best ones and we've got a lot that have been there like year after year. And um yeah, it's interesting like I've like I'll watch like the Dark Force Fest review videos on YouTube and there's been like a few where it's like they are only taking videos of the vendors and like almost like the bands are almost like an afterthought for some of these people

32:03and like a little bit shocking for me. But yeah, apparently there's some people that are really there for the vendors. I mean obviously like our focus is the bands. You know we are primarily a music festival but yeah a lot of people just really come in for the vendors and um yeah we have like over a hundred vendors and um yeah they do a great job and it's like I know like for myself like I always like I got to make sure I see all the vendors and it's like because like it's hard because like you know it takes time to actually go around and like look

32:36at them all because they're kind of spaced out too. Yeah. And

32:40um but you're right, they're great. You know, I always like try to buy some stuff and um just try to check out all the cool setups. They do a great job.

32:49Yeah, that's really fun. I I'm sure like um as you're piecing it together for next year, it's probably like this is probably like a really fun part for you to get really creative with like thinking like, okay, what can we actually put together um you know, this time around? So, yeah.

33:08Totally. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. Um, it's a good time. It just, yeah, like I said, it just gets a little bit but it's great, you know, like I enjoy

33:22So, how far in advance do you start planning for for the next one?

33:28So, I technically start planning even before the previous one's done. like this one, like the recent one was like May 1st and I started kind of reaching out to bands like in April, I think. But really, I kind of like really got started probably like a week or two after it's over. and because yeah, I try to have like a full year to plan it out and, you know, just really stay on top of it. I had a It's funny. I had a couple booking agents where like I started reaching out to them like right after the event started. They're like, "Dude, take a break. Like you got some time."

34:13But yeah, like I try to stay on top of it. Like because like you know it could be time consuming. It could take some time and I really um you know some bands are easier to book than others. You know some bands like you got to do a lot of back and forth. It takes a while to wait for them. like some booking agents just are not super good at responding in a timely manner, you know. So, um

34:35yeah, I just try to plan it out. Um

34:38so and that's the plan like you know just have it well start working on it well in advance especially because there's so many different aspects to it like it's once the bands are done booking then I got to start you know working on the vendors and the panels and the performers and like the presentations. So, um it's kind of like there's a few different like moving parts to it. So,

35:05um try to have like a good amount of time to it.

35:09No. Are you the only person that um is putting this all together?

35:16Um I feel like for the the planning before the event, so at the actual event, you know, obviously we've got a bunch of staff that are awesome. terms that are planning before the event. Um I I've got uh somebody that helps with the vendors like you know accepting the vendors and whatnot and I feel like I probably do more than I should in terms terms of the the pre-planning. Like I do all the band bookings and I've been doing like the panels and the performers and the DJs and the presentations and I have been kind of wanting to get some more help with that. But um yeah, I've been pretty much doing

36:01all of that. But now that I think about it, I'm like probably shouldn't be doing all of this. But uh but it's been working out. At least like that's why I have like a full year to do it, you know? So I'm able to like it out. Yeah.

36:15That's a lot. It's a lot. And I know you have your Vampire Freak store as well.

36:21yeah, totally.

36:23Yeah. Vampire Freak shop's been doing great. Um, yeah, we've been getting great support for that. And people buy their outfits for Dark Force Fest on that, which is cool. But, um, yeah, that's been doing really great. You know, we got a really good crew. We got a nice warehouse in, um, the Poconos in

36:42Yeah. Um, yeah, it's been doing well.

36:45Yeah, it's a lot to juggle. I'm like I'm curious like how do you actually manage to keep it all keep it all straight with so many things? I don't know. I handle it. I think with the Vampire Freaks online store, I do have a lot of help with it. You know, we've got a solid crew. We've got a few like freelancers that work on stuff. We've got like designers for like the artwork and like the clothing and stuff like that. So that's I feel like that's a pretty welloiled machine. And I I've been also trying to delegate more stuff. That's been something that I've really

37:23had to learn over years is like

37:26delegate stuff like I can't do it all myself because

37:30there's only so many hours I have. And I think um that's even been a struggle cuz it's always like, yeah, I can try to get somebody to do this, but I know how to do it and I could just do it and I could maybe do a better job if I just did it myself, but there's only so much like you can do by yourself, you know? So

37:53a goal for me is to try to get try to get help, you know, like acknowledge that yeah, I can't do this all myself. So, like I do need help with some stuff and I think I I need to probably do that a little bit more with the Dark Force planning, but at least with the actual Dark Force event, we have like a ton of staff, which is awesome.

38:14so, uh, but yeah, it's been doing well.

38:16Yeah, it's it is hard to delegate, especially I mean cuz the things that you've built, you've built from the ground up. So, you know, and when you're building things from the ground up, you do get used to like doing things yourself. And it is definitely a shift when you're like, "Oh, I I should probably ask somebody to help out with this thing that I'm so used to doing." So, yeah.

38:39Yeah, totally. And yeah, I guess like to your point, if you want to take on more things and get more stuff done, like you just can't do it all yourself. And that's funny. Somebody said delegate is a dirty word, which [laughter] It's it's a struggle. It's hard. And like it is,

38:58especially like if you have experiences where you ask somebody to do something and they might not do a great job and you might be like, "Oh man, I should have just done that." So, um I think it can also be hard to find people that are will do a good job or like um I remember hearing somebody say like you want to get people to do something that will do a better job than you would do which I totally get, you know, so that's cool. Um, but yeah, I mean I realize that I've got my limits and you know there's I don't know everything like you know for example our

39:35sound and light guys at Dark Forest Fest. I don't know how to do all that stuff you know that's why we have professionalists do it you know.

39:42So um yeah it's good to everybody's got their strengths and weaknesses and you know I guess it's just something you got to acknowledge. Yeah. And I mean like you were saying earlier like I think sometimes it can take some time to build the right team, you know, like when you find them it's awesome, but sometimes you have you have your growing pains where you're like, "Okay, I'm

40:04finding the right people first." So

40:07Exactly. Like you're not going to get all perfect people your first try, you know? I gota um Yeah, it's a growing

40:17Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think that's I don't know. I think I think it's part of the fun though. I like to look at like growing things like little plants where you're like planting your seeds and you start seeing the little blossoms come up and then it feels really gratifying, you know, once it all comes together. So,

40:33Oh, I like that. That's pretty cool. Yeah. I've always wanted to be into gardening actually and I tried growing like some cucumbers and stuff like that for a while and I don't know it's I feel like it's it's hard. [laughter]

40:51Yes, it is.

40:53I did cucumbers. Cucumbers are easy. Remember I tried to I tried to grow broccoli and it totally failed but and then um

41:02I mean it's impressive that you could grow anything at all. I am lucky to grow an aloe aloe vera. [laughter]

41:08I've actually killed a few. So

41:11that's funny.

41:14that's pretty cool.

41:14Yes. I like the idea of gardening I think more than the actual reality. Me

41:20I think like and u I know like this whole like um living off the earth like homesteading thing is like a trend now. Like I respect people that could do it, you know? It's a lot of work.

41:32It is. Absolutely. I know. I'm like, that's mad respect that it some people make it look so easy. I'm like, how do you do that?

41:39Right. To go to like Trader Joe's or something and just buy some veggies.

41:50Yeah. So, um Oh, it's it's getting a lot of love for the for the festival.

41:58That's pretty cool.

41:59It is. It is.

42:01People like the festival. Oh, man. people waiting for like announcements. We usually announce stuff like I want to say in like July and we're like now and I think um cuz the the venue sold as no longer Sher now it's a it's a Dolce by Windom. I don't know what Chase is supposed to mean, but that's like a

42:25Windom subbrand

42:28thing. But um

42:30but I mean so all the staff stay, which I love because that was like, oh man, these guys are selling. It's going to be all new staff and it's going to suck. But uh had a really good relationship with the staff there. Like the the management there is really cool. Like everybody that works there like really loves her event.

42:48that was a concern. But yeah, it seems like it's going to be the same crew. It's just like new ownership and new name and but because of that, they're having to like transfer all their systems over like the the booking links and whatnot like so um

43:06and they're like I guess transferring all all the events for the whole year. So it's a process. So

43:13that is a process.

43:14They should have had it they should have had us they should have had the event links and all that first by now. I'll keep bugging them.

43:20Yeah. I mean, yeah, everything's going well, you know. I think that we pretty much have all the bands booked, which is cool. We might think we've got like one or two open slots, but like a huge list of bands that are kind of like maybe. And we had over 700 band applications this year, which is crazy.

43:41Wow, that's amazing,

43:43right? I didn't even know 700 goth industrial bands existed.

43:49That's incredible. Wow. That must feel so so cool to like first also discover new music. I mean, what a way to

44:00Yeah. I love going through the applications. I like listening to the bands and actually a few of the bands we've booked over the years. I discovered through the applications like and um yeah like you'll get bands that apply and like you know it's like oh wow these guys are actually really good and they actually have like a good following and whatnot. So, um, yeah, it's pretty cool. But I think that always is a struggle for me, too, is like we never have enough slots for how many bands that we actually want to book because we've got 35

44:35band slots and, you know, 700 applications. Plus, like a lot of bands we book are not even applying because, you know, there'll be like bigger bands that people request and whatnot. you know, we're not going to get headliners submitting their application. Like, we got to actually reach out to them directly or their agent or whatever. So, yeah, it's like by the time we um finish trying to book like more headliner type bands and then by the time we even get to the applications, it's like, oh man, we've only got like a handful of slots left. Once we went through all the bands people wanted that they requested. So

45:18yeah, it's something I struggle with.

45:21That's a lot. Yeah. 700. That blows my mind. Like that must have taken you a long time to like go through all of

45:28I know. It's a lot. [laughter] A bit overwhelming. And then I feel bad because then like I'll have people that are like, "Hey, um, I know this band that'd be great." or like you should book this band or like you know people reach out and they're like oh yeah my friend's band is awesome or like this band applied and like a lot of the times I'm like you know what this band would be awesome and we just don't have enough sluss and then that becomes a challenge and I've thought about even like trying to add like a third stage to try to fit more bands

46:08but um I don't know if I'm ready for that yet And that would also create scheduling conflicts. The nice thing about two stages is we're able to alternate the schedules. Like one band's setting up and doing sound check while the while the band in the other room's performing. So it kind of works perfectly where people can catch all the I don't know. So the idea of the third stage has been kind of mulling around, but it's like then people are going to complain they can't catch all the bands. And I know people are going to complain about that, but I don't know.

46:43It's a lot. I mean, it's I it's impossible to make everyone happy. And

46:50um you know, I mean, I I I do see that it brings you a lot of joy to to bring joy to other people, but it is it is hard when you're like, "Oh my gosh, there's so many bands." And I just I'm sure in your heart like you wish that you could provide more stages for all these different artists, but yeah, sometimes it's like you have to kind of pick and choose your battles, I think.

47:12Yeah. Right. Or just like

47:15I don't know. Like it'd be nice if we just had more slots, but I feel like three days is kind of my limit, but you know, the third day I'm like exhausted. I'm like I need like a week. [laughter] Actually, that's um Phoenix Jade was actually asking um Jet, you seem like a busy busy soul um sitting here listening to all you do and have done. Um how have you or do you find time to unwind and what is your favorite way to unwind?

47:43Oh, um so for unwinding, um honestly like I'll take a gummy and just kind of relax and play with some Transformers toys, play with some Legos. I have so many Legos that I still have to like unbox and play with or yeah, just hang out like hang out with my cat and my wife and play some watching TV or hey, we got Sebastian Kamar in there. What's up, Sebastian? That's cool.

48:21Sebastian rocks. Hey, Sebastian. That's cool. Sebastian's. Yeah, this is an impossible task unless it would be a two week long festival. That'd be a long That'd be an epic festival. [laughter]

48:36Oh my gosh.

48:38But I have thought about like at least doing it like twice a year actually. Like I really want to do one on the west coast and like we get so many requests for one in California cuz like we uh like you know when we do like the dark force ads and whatnot a lot of the comments are like why isn't us in California? So it's interesting. Uh but yeah, I think that would be cool. You know, maybe do like a different time of year or even do two on the East Coast or something. But um I think there's definitely a demand to do it more than

49:10once, which is cool.

49:12And sell out the event.

49:14And some people are like, "Oh, like you've outgrown the venue." Which we kind of have to be honest because we sell it out. But I mean, we love the venue, you know? It's not all about

49:25It's such an awesome venue.

49:27It is awesome.

49:28And I think it's not just about like being as big as possible because it's such a good venue. We have such a good thing going that I'm kind of happy with how it is, but maybe try to do more than one. We'll see.

49:45Yeah. Yeah. I love that idea. Yeah.

49:48Cool. I mean, it's still up in the air, you know? Just kind of like always got some ideas mulling around. see what we can do. But I mean definitely like I'm thankful that we have that kind of support that that it's even a problem that you know people say that the venue is getting too small or whatever. So that's cool. I mean it's a good problem to have you know.

50:13Yeah. You were actually getting asked by um Dave uh Dave Demon Htown um if you're doing anything in Texas. So you're getting a third region request. Texas. Okay.

50:26Texas. Yes.

50:28Somebody said Dark Forest Fast versus Dark Forest West.

50:31Oh. [laughter]

50:37I think it'd be fun. Um, yeah. We'll see. I mean, there's a lot ideas going around. even thought about like I don't think this would happen when I but one idea was even doing like a little like almost like touring type thing but um

50:55that'd be a lot of work

50:57I I will say that um so we we whenever we play festivals we tour because there's so many of us there's six people in Alice as you know

51:06um and so it's it's hard to fly us all out there so we always plan our tours you know to get us there and back when we play festivals and um and it's pretty cool because when we do we play with so many great local local bands when we do

51:22um so it is like an extension in a way of Dark Force Fest. It's sort of like we're going there and back but at the same time like we get to like um discover new artists ourselves, reconvene with different friends in different cities and so it is like a little bit of a little tour to get us you know

51:40that's pretty fun. Yeah,

51:42I like that.

51:45I remember uh you were talking about somewhere where you had a van that only did writers or something like that.

51:52Oh my gosh. Yes. I think it was Kevin Vanesser like he was um he was interviewing us and yeah, we had a van called Red Thunder and it only made right turns and we were playing in New York so I don't even know. I have no idea how we made it to the venue.

52:09It was so bad.

52:11That's crazy.

52:13I'm like shocked that you pulled that

52:16I don't know how. I think we had some really good guardian angels. [laughter]

52:21So bad.

52:22Yeah. Like no air conditioning. Um there was like a hole in the driver's in the driver's side floor.

52:29Um Yeah. And it only turned right, but it was a $700 van and it got us around.

52:36Yeah. [laughter]

52:36On the floor. You got to like Fred Flintstone it. [clears throat]

52:42Yeah. The joys of indie touring,

52:45right? That always makes for good stories though, you know.

52:48It does.

52:49It's like this the DIY struggle makes for the best stories, you know.

52:53Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I I love like we were talking about like I just love that we've gotten to build things from the ground up and it's I will never take air conditioning for granted after that. [laughter] That's so funny. How did that wind up working out like with the no right turns? [laughter]

53:14I don't know. Like I really don't cuz you know there's like one ways and stuff like that. So it was like we had to be really selective about which streets that we would turn on to be able to get to where we were going.

53:30Yeah. [laughter]

53:32That was cool. So, um, Casper Productions VR says, "Jet runs around um all three days during Dark Force Fest." This is a fact. Um, people who see Jet, um, he's here one moment and next he's definitely area of the hotel delegating everything all at once. [laughter]

53:55Definitely. I'm just running back and forth the whole time. Um, that's a lot.

54:01that's a lot. Yeah. And actually I feel bad because like sometimes like I'll see somebody and like it's like I'm talking to him and like oh man I I got to be somewhere else. So I'm like I got to like run off and I'm like I don't want to be rude because I want to like talk to this person, you know. But um yeah, it's a lot just kind of going back and forth. But um yeah, I think like I was saying though, it definitely gets a little bit easier each time just because we got a good crew. I was like, I feel like I'm able to see

54:31more bands. I'm more actually take it in more a little bit each year just cuz the the management besides myself has been, you know, getting better and more on top of it.

54:43Yeah. I I saw in an interview that you DJed. Do you do you still like do DJing?

54:50Yeah, I still DJ. So, not like it's not like I actively try to get DJ gigs to be honest because I feel like I just don't even really have the time for it and

55:02cuz I'm in the Poconos's like I'm like a two-hour trek to either New York or Philly. So, like I'm like oh man like

55:09it's just like it's too much for me to try to do other gigs. But um I've got like some events that I'm involved with like producing and whatnot that I do and we've got like so I still do events like mo mostly mostly in New York and Brooklyn and whatnot. So like a couple times a month and we do something at QXT like every couple months too. Um I do like a like an emo pop punk party and we also do like a goth party and sometimes we'll have like a 90s room but yeah we kind of mix it up. That's awesome.

55:45that's fun. I think um one thing I've kind of like been trying to focus on for when I DJ is being like more of a performer and like being more like active and like just like really, you know, trying to move around, trying to dance and get into it cuz I think that at least for me, I think like you know it's it's about like the crowd crowd interaction like getting like trying to like make it like a show like you know as a performer yourself I'm sure it's like you want to engage the crowd you don't want to just like stand there because you're affecting like your

56:29audience you know so

56:31I think that's something I'd like to probably see more DJs do is be more like I guess like be try to put on more of a show you know like you don't want to just stand in there and push play which like you know it's not like Um, not like talking badly or not saying there's anything wrong with it, but I think like

56:50it's more appreciated when you put more effort into like putting on a show for

56:56um for DJ and stuff. But yeah, I have a lot of fun and you know just trying to just want other people to have fun.

57:03Oh, absolutely. And yeah, it does it does make a big difference. Like I've noticed when DJs are really into it, like it's infectious.

57:10It makes me want to get into it, too. So

57:13totally. And I feel like it's just better energy or just Yeah. Just like watching like any band, it's like you want you want the band to be into it, you know? You want the energy to be

57:23Yeah. Yeah. Because it's like when you feel like that energy and they're really into what they're doing, you're like, "Yes, I'm feeling it." [laughter]

57:31And it's like feeding off the crowd, the crowd's feeding off you. Like, for sure.

57:36Yeah, definitely.

57:40That's fun. Oh. Uh, hello Clint Carney.

57:45Whoa, we got Clint [laughter] here. That's awesome.

57:50I love it.

57:51That's so cool. Hey, we got like some famous people visiting us today.

57:56Cool. Cool.

57:57Oh, um, real O or OJ um says, "We saw you DJ the Goth Cruise back in 2010."

58:06Oh, wow. Back in 2010. Wow, that's pretty cool. Old school. Yeah, that was fun. Man, that was so long ago.

58:19That's awesome. Yeah.

58:21Yeah, that was good times. I've been kind of out of the loop with the Goth cruise stuff. I wonder what they're doing lately. But um

58:28Yeah, I had fun. I love cruises. [laughter] I just love to be able to go someplace tropical and get some sun.

58:37that sounds fun. It's like the best of all worlds. It's like you get to hang out with your friends on a boat and enjoy music. So, yes.

58:44Yeah. Plus unlimited food. [laughter]

58:46Yes. Yes. This is nice.

58:50Just everywhere all the time.

58:55Um, Crimson Serenity says, "Uh, Lucky 13 reminds me a tiny bit of CBD's."

59:02Cool. Lucky 13 is pretty fun. Yeah, we still got some good some good venues. New York's got a pretty good pretty good scene still.

59:12It's always been very positive for us when we've played in New York. Um had no idea what to expect like the first time we played in New York and I was like, "Wow, it's amazing." Like we felt very

59:22Yeah. Feel like New York's got such good energy. Like the crowds are awesome

59:28and um Yeah. I don't know. It's like people are just kind of living for the moment in New York. It's really cool. I love that.

59:40LA is awesome. Like we just played um the Goth Pride event at the Terra Grand Ballroom um in June and that was incredible. It was sold out. Um there was just so much love. Um LA loves music. Like really loves music, loves the arts. It's really supportive. Yeah. So yeah, I'm finding that honestly like kind of just around like when we tour like I just see a lot of support. So yeah, it's it's awesome. It's very encouraging for um you know, those of us that, you know, play live. Like it's awesome to see that kind of support. It makes it possible. So yeah,

1:00:18that's pretty cool.

1:00:21Yeah. That's going to be fun going on tour. I wonder if is there any like fun cities that like you like to stop in or anything that's kind of surprised you that's cooler than you thought? Um, I mean, I knew New Orleans was going to be amazing, but New Orleans is definitely a favorite. Love New Orleans. Yeah. Um, I had never been to Salem, and then when we started touring, like we we experienced Salem, Massachusetts, and that was really fun. Um, yeah, they've got a they've got a great community there, too. So, um, yeah, North Carolina, like we love playing at the Milestone in Charlotte, North Carolina.

1:01:02Um, yeah. And it's so cool because the Milestone is a historic venue. So, um, like Nirvana used to play there. Um, used to play there. And so, I feel like I'm always like, "Wow." It's like this is where legends have played. I'm sure that's how it was for CBGB's. Um, I never got to see it, but from what I hear, I'm like just legendary bands played there. So,

1:01:24That's awesome. Um, this Cybertron Goth industrial, well, mainly industrial party. Um, and it was like a weekly thing in New York and then it was a monthly thing. But the first venue we did was a pyramid in New York and like Nirvana had play there and like all these like but it's like a rinky it was like a rinky dink like club. It's not like a huge club. It was like probably probably on the main floor. I want to say it fit like 150 people maybe 200 max. And then we had an event downstairs and probably whole like I don't know

1:02:01maybe if you cram people in fit like a hundred people and like the ceiling was only like six and a half feet tall so like you're kind of like make sure you don't hit your head if you're tall but um yeah that was you know it it was a cool venue and just cool that it had so much history and yeah New York's got a lot of it's got a lot of history for sure. Is um New York where you first started experiencing like live music? And

1:02:30yeah, I grew up in Brooklyn and

1:02:33like when I was 16, I got a fake ID so I could go into the goth clubs and you know, I used to go to the the bank and the pyramid and Batcave and um yeah, I just loved it. It was awesome. I used to

1:02:51um get like fishnet stockings and cut them up to make a fishnet shirt out of them [laughter] and but uh yeah just uh you know it's the gossian is just you know it's just super accepting and like you just kind of makes you feel at home which is great.

1:03:09I love that. I love that. I love that like your early experience was something that obviously probably really inspired you to like start Vampire Freaks and you know eventually do the music festivals and stuff too. So

1:03:23yeah, totally.

1:03:25Actually, I got into doing events because I really wanted to DJ because I really liked going out to club events and like I was like, "Oh, it'd be so cool to DJ." But like, you know, it's hard to get a gig as a DJ if you don't have any experience. and whatnot.

1:03:42So, um yeah, I was like, "Oh, I'll just do my own events and try DJing." And, you know, of course, like the first few like were total flops cuz that's how it goes. You know, you got to start

1:03:54Yes, you do have to start somewhere. It's true.

1:03:58Yes. Yes.

1:03:59Like the first event I did, I don't know, was like eight of my friends or something. [laughter]

1:04:05Oh, I love that. I love it. That was like a snowy December in New York so like nobody showed up but it was it was still fun you know it was great.

1:04:15And I mean your friends showed up so

1:04:18That's really fun.

1:04:19So yeah it was still fun.

1:04:22Yeah. I guess like it kind of you kind of learn over the years. You you kind of figure out what you're doing after a

1:04:29It's true. It's true. I mean, it's it's really fun though when you like think like, "Wow, gosh, this is like it's like you look at the little chapters that you go through to get to where you are." Um, and I think it kind of makes you appreciate like, you know, the present that much more.

1:04:44Yeah, I totally agree with that. Like I think it's like you kind of like appreciate the struggle, you know? It's like if it was too easy, you wouldn't enjoy it as much. And like if you didn't

1:04:57Oh my gosh. Yes.

1:04:58Right. I feel If everything just would have been a big success just right away, it wouldn't it wouldn't feel like special, you know, like I guess it's kind of like knowing that okay, I had I did have to go through a lot of a lot of failures [laughter] to actually

1:05:19figure some stuff out. It's like um yeah, I don't know. I guess like you know they say they also say like going through hard times builds character, you know. It's like I also like appreciate just people in general that have gone through hardships and hard times. It's like, you know, it kind of it makes you a different person. Like it makes you appreciate things.

1:05:41Yeah, it inspires me for sure. Like I'm I'm a big fan of biopics. Um and so I love like really like learning about like okay like this is the things that they went through to become who they are and to create what they do. And

1:05:56yeah, like you're saying, it's like if it was just handed to you, I think it's like you wouldn't appreciate it as much, you know?

1:06:04I think so.

1:06:10Yeah. And I maybe I mean also it maybe I think that's kind of what makes you um less afraid of failure when you've had a bunch of them and you're like, "Ah, I've been through failure before." You know, it's it's something you get through.

1:06:25totally. I could see that, right?

1:06:28It's like,

1:06:29yeah, I feel like at this point I'm kind of just like, I'm gonna try this and see if it works out, you know, and if it doesn't, then it's okay. It wouldn't be the first time I something didn't work out, you know. [laughter]

1:06:40Totally. Yeah. Well, besides um Dark Force Fest and you know, musing on the idea of possibly expanding it and Vampire Freaks, is there anything else that you've been um excited to create? Um, I think that's been pretty much my life is like Vampire Freaks and like the events, you know, like I said, we do like the monthly parties in New York, which kind of is fun even though it winds up being a really late night and then I get exhausted. But, um, yeah, Dark Force Fest, you know, I just plan it out. Like it's funny like when I think about how much time of the year I

1:07:20work on Dark Force Fest and it's only a three-day event. I'm like [laughter] why do I put so much time into this three-day event? But like you know people love it and it's like you know like we talk about it like all the time and um it just goes really well.

1:07:39I I think I think about that too. It's like you put so much prep into like for instance as a band like you could play a 30 minute set or 45 minute set but it takes hours to like put that together.

1:07:51Um hours and hours. Yeah.

1:07:53But I think that's like you know like the three-day event is very special. So you know and everyone that's experienced it like knows that. So yeah.

1:08:04Yeah. It's a lot of fun. Oh, I like that. Sebastian Kamar is like fall down seven times, get back up eight. I love it. I love that. It's a good

1:08:13Yeah. Right. But yeah, I mean like for you know I think about that when bands make music it's like okay how long did it take you to make that three minute song that somebody's going to consume in three minutes you know like so um yeah it kind of goes like that too. It's like put all this work into something and then it gets consumed a lot faster you

1:08:36Yeah it's true. Um, yeah, because it's like and then also the years of experience that go into because Dark Force Fest is a representation of literally years of you doing events and years of, you know, of trying things out and learning. So, it it is literally it's not just like that year that went into the prep, it's the years that have gone into learning how to put it together. So,

1:09:01that's true. You're right. And it is kind of nice that people kind of look forward to it and um like they know that it's going to be a good event so they just buy tickets right away even if we haven't even announced the lineup yet. Um so it's it does take years to kind of build up that momentum where people are just like okay I'm gonna I'm gonna go to this because I know it's going to be good and we don't want to we don't want to disappoint them so we make sure it's good you know.

1:09:31Yeah. Yeah.

1:09:33Oh. Um, Crucifera was asking if you are um thinking about uh Vampire Freak's fashion show someday. yeah. I don't know. I'm going to think about that. We've done a couple fashion shows like back in the day like I don't know like early 2000sish. We did do a couple fashion shows and they were a lot of work to be honest. I think there's a theme here, chat. Like

1:10:03I know. [laughter]

1:10:05Yeah. I think it it was a lot of a lot more work than I kind of expected and we actually did have a fashion show at Dark First Fest a couple years ago cuz uh one of our staff members, Madame X, she offered to put it together and like get some of the vendors to um participate uh because we have some vendors that are fashion designers. And uh yeah, it was good. Um but um yeah, fashion shows. I have to think about it. I think like one thing is there's only so many things that I can do and sometimes I just have to kind of pick and choose.

1:10:52I feel you.

1:10:54So it's a thought. It's like, okay, I could do a fashion show. As long as somebody else is want to manage it, I'm okay with it. But if I have to put it together, I might have to think about, [snorts] okay, what do I have to sacrifice to do this, you know?

1:11:08Yes. There are only so many clones that you can make.

1:11:15In a Don Hills fashion show. That's funny. Oh, I actually have a funny story about that one. Um, so we did a fashion show at Don Hills, which is this cool venue in New York, which doesn't exist anymore. And the the guy, it was actually the guy that owned it was named Don Hill, but he was an old guy. He did wind up passing, but um we did a fashion show and um one of the girls in the fashion show um like baby powder out into the crowd. Like I guess let's kind of be like uh like I guess she was trying to kind of

1:11:54put on a show. She she actually she also is like a a musician so I think she was kind of like trying to like I don't know. She she had baby powder I think on herself as part of her aesthetic and also kind of just threw it out to the crowd. Like some people got kind of pissed off and one chick I knew went up to her and like threw her water like right at the chick that threw the baby crab powder into the ground.

1:12:20Oh no.

1:12:22She just like splash her with water. I was like, "Okay, this is something."

1:12:28Oh my gosh. It's like

1:12:31I kind of I kind of understood because the girl was like covered in baby powder and like you know when you're at a goth club you're wearing all black.

1:12:40It's like the water really hurt anybody or the baby powder really hurt anybody but it was kind of like it was a a sight to behold.

1:12:48Yes. [laughter]

1:12:50There's definitely uh some funny incidents at the clubs over the years. That's how it goes. There are certain substances that are very hard. Like glitter and baby powder are some of them. Yes,

1:13:03glitter is the worst. We had a burlesque performance where she as part of her act, she took like a bucket of red glitter and just like dumped it all over her and I think it was supposed to kind of look like blood or something, but she didn't use a tarp or anything. And it was actually at one of the I think Dark Side of the Con events and it was like on carpet and I was like, "Oh,

1:13:33has to clean it up. I feel so

1:13:36I was like, "Oh man, that was terrible."

1:13:39Oh, yeah. It's one of those things that you'll literally find like a year later. It's right.

1:13:43Yeah. Yeah. [laughter]

1:13:46But actually thing about Dark Proess now people bring like these like little like gift figures. It'll be like little duckies or like little moons or like just I think they'll just buy like a 500 pack on AliExpress or whatever and it'll be like a tiny little figure and they'll just like leave them all around the venue or like hand them out to people and it's kind of like a little

1:14:08and uh so that's super cute. Like people are kind of trying to like just gift random things to people. But I kind of wonder like, okay, is the venue like finding these things like six months later? Like a tiny little duck leg underneath a table or somewhere or something?

1:14:24I hope so. That bring me a little joy if I was like, "Wow, look, a little duck."

1:14:29Yeah, people like collect these like little figures that they find. It's super cute. I remember somebody gave me a little

1:14:35It was like a laser etched word. It just like it was like a tiny wooden thing. It was like an inch and a half wide and it just said And I was like, "Oh, cool. Somebody gave me a fuck." [laughter] And that just like totally cracked me up. I'm just like showing off [laughter] my little to everybody like, "Hey, somebody gave me a fuck." Eventually [laughter] just gave it to Raymond Was from Pig. I'm like, "Here you go. I I'm gonna give you a fuck."

1:15:07I love that you got to share the love. Yeah, exactly. I shared my

1:15:13Yes. Yes. [laughter]

1:15:16And then I wind up just finding one of those like I don't know like in a pocket or something like and I still have I still have that little So, thank you to whoever gave me a

1:15:29Oh my gosh.

1:15:30Yeah, it was fun.

1:15:34Yeah. Maybe I'll try to get little things I could give out or something. We'll see. Ooh. Yeah, that sounds It sounds like people get really creative, you know.

1:15:45Yeah, they do.

1:15:48We had uh mermaids at the um the pool party last time, so that was

1:15:54Oh, how fun.

1:15:57that's awesome.

1:15:58Yeah, we got some fun stuff. Some really cool costumes. That's a good time.

1:16:02Yeah, for sure. Sure. I think that's part of the fun is just seeing like how creative people get too, you know. Um

1:16:10Right. You're right. Costumes.

1:16:13Outfits, you know, people really put their put time into it.

1:16:17Mhm. Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's like I don't know. It's like it's a fun place to converge and, you know, see obviously see bands, but also there's just so many different creatives that are around or vending. So, yeah, absolutely part of it. Right.

1:16:35The vendors always do well. And it's funny like the bands a lot of times bands are like, "I totally sold out of all my stuff right away." [laughter]

1:16:43So like, "Oh, wow. That's so awesome." Like, you know, the band. I really dig

1:16:48Yeah. It's awesome. I mean, it's really cool to see how supportive everybody is, you know. Um Yeah,

1:16:55you're right.

1:16:55Definitely. Mhm.

1:16:58Oh, um, Crimson Security, um, was asking, um, are you keeping the Dark Force Fest at the Sherin in New Jersey? Um, the castle-shaped hotel is indeed

1:17:08Yeah. It's not called the Sherin

1:17:12Apparently, it's called Apparently now it's a Dolce by Windom. So, it's a

1:17:16And I'm hoping that maybe they'll do some fun renovations since they sold it. As long as they're not doing renovations during our event.

1:17:29Yeah. I think it'll be good.

1:17:32Yeah. It's just such It's such a cool place. Like I really don't think I've ever seen a hotel that's a castle like that before. That was my first experience. Yeah. So,

1:17:42it's really cool looking. Like from the outside, I love how we were able to put the big banner up and um Yeah, it's pretty neat.

1:17:50It is. It's part of the magic. Like there's a few places that we've played. Um there's a place in Denver that was um called the church that was actually at a church. It was like an old Gothic

1:18:03Yeah, it was fun cuz like on the third floor was a sushi restaurant. Um and then there were DJs on the second floor and then bands would play on the on the ground floor. So I I really thought it was a cool venue.

1:18:15That's fun. I remember

1:18:17there was a church venue in New York called the Limelight and um that was a great venue.

1:18:22Is it still around

1:18:24now? It's like a mall or something.

1:18:27It's like a bunch of shops in there. But uh yeah, it was a great venue. They even did a movie called Party Monster about kind of like the whole club scene that kind of surrounded around the limelight and these kids were doing all these drugs and somebody want to killing somebody and went to jail. So

1:18:48Oh, wow.

1:18:50Yeah, it was a awesome venue. And

1:18:54that was a good movie, too. Party monster. But yeah, Limelight was great. I saw B&B Nation there and they used to have like most of the events there were mostly like a kind of like electro like techno EDM stuff, but they would have like a side room where they had goth parties called Zenwarp. And um yeah, I don't know. It was just really fun like club being in like the '9s. I guess it was good times.

1:19:19Yeah, that's really cool. I mean, I feel like you've probably seen like so many different artists, so many people come to New York. So,

1:19:28Yeah. Yeah. I was curious like actually um for for the 700 artists that you saw, were they applications from artists around the world or was it predominantly in um North America? So definitely mostly North America, but you'd be surprised. We get some from other and I'm like, how do you even know about But uh yeah, so it's it's cool. You know, we definitely get a wide variety. And um we even got some bands that are like not even really goth industrial. Like we'll get like some some metal bands that apply and other stuff like that. And I mean I think you know that's flattering that all these bands would

1:20:10like to want to perform at our event you know that that's cool that they are even aware of it.

1:20:17Yeah that's amazing. I mean gosh it's like I don't know you just think about how word spreads you know and it is the beauty of the internet you know it's just the fact that people will you know share their experiences and so there's all kinds of videos out there of Dark Forcefest. So, I'm sure like people are like, "Oh, check out this amazing event." Um,

1:20:37awesome. Very cool.

1:20:39And uh we get like European bands come over and I get like a little bit like self-conscious. I'm like, "Okay, this is not compared to something like Maril Luna or whatever they have over there because, you know, Germany is like the the mecca of the goth industrial world, which is cool." But um

1:21:01and I'm like, okay, you know, I hope like this is up to their standards because, you know, it seems like it's a different world, you know, Europe compared to America um for the industrial scene. Um but um yeah, they love it, which is great. you know, we got these like big industrial bands like um and they just really have a great time, you know, like we had Covenant and they're like, "Oh yeah, this is great. We really loved it." And like, you know, Suicide Commando and stuff and they're just like they're like, "Oh, I had such a great time." And I'm like, "Wow, that's so cool because you're like a

1:21:40huge star in my eyes, you know? I'm like starruck." And like the fact that they actually really enjoyed it, had a good time and like had a great crowd. Like that's that's like the goal, you know? We want them to be happy, have a good

1:21:55Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's so cool that um I mean, are there artists that you've booked for Dark Force Fest that you're like, "Okay, really this is my bucket list artist that I really want to be able to like bring over um that you've brought over for the first time with Dark Force Fest. What was the question? Like other

1:22:15Um, so artists that you haven't booked yet. Um, like that are your like bucket list artists that you

1:22:22I've got a list of artists that I've been kind of chipping away at. Like and there's been a few artists that like

1:22:29took us like years to get. Like last year we got London After Midnight and it took us like years to get them. And actually like um it's funny because yeah I've been I had trying to get him for like years and then like Sean from L after midnight he actually came to Dark Forest Fest the year before cuz I think he wanted to scope it out like so like we got him like a hotel room cuz we were like man you really got to play this festival everybody wants you here and like he came down and like he was like I didn't even see him like he was just like

1:23:01incognito. He said he wore a mask because he didn't want anybody to recognize him.

1:23:06it was like a multi-year thing to get them to to play,

1:23:10but and then they finally did it and like it was amazing and then he loved it and he's like, "Oh yeah, this is great. I want to do it again." Like we'll have them back again sometime and it won't be as hard to get them, you know?

1:23:22oh, I love that.

1:23:23There's other bands that we've been trying to get for years like um like Hoso and like Blue Tango and like Ashbury Heights and couple other bands that it's like we're kind of like chipping away at them. It's like there's interest there. We're talking to their booking agents, but it's like the timing's got to be right. Especially with the European bands, it's like, you know, the whole visa thing. And

1:23:49I think there's kind of like some European bands are not really happy with the US government or how politics are going. And

1:23:59you know, I try to, you know, obviously like we just want to show them a good time. We just want to like like you know, we're we we stay out of all that. You know, it's like I don't like, you know, like we have no control over any political stuff. We just want you to come play with us and show you a good So, um, and so, you know, it's a lot of it is kind of just building these relationships over years until they finally come over. and, um, but yeah, we we, you know, we make progress with a lot of these bands and some of these bands that we've been

1:24:32trying to get for years. They're like, "Okay, we maybe can't do 2027, but put us down for 2028." I'm like, "Okay, hey, that's awesome. I can deal with that." You know?

1:24:42Yes. Yes. That's awesome.

1:24:46Plus, it keeps things going where you're like, "Okay, this is something to look forward to and something to build towards, you know, in the next couple

1:24:52Exactly. And then

1:24:55then 2020 it'll be a little bit easier because like, okay, we already have these bands in place, you know. So,

1:25:02So, yeah, that's the goal. Um, but yeah, I mean, we've had like awesome bands that I think have been like on our bucket list already, which is great, you

1:25:15terms of other bands. Yeah, I mean I think like yeah, the ones I've named, you know, people keep requesting WSA, which obviously is never going to happen because he's never done a show ever. His first show is not going to be in the US.

1:25:30Well, yeah.

1:25:33I like that you're you're using the approach of chipping away at it, though. You're like, you know, we're just building towards that.

1:25:39Yeah, we try. There's definitely like bands that we're chipping away at that we're like, "Okay, like they're interested, but maybe the timing is not right and um yeah, we, you know, we make progress and, you know, eventually we get them to come over."

1:25:54Yeah, I love it. I love it. Is it was it a lot to figure out how to do visas and such like with getting the

1:26:02Oh, man. [laughter] Like, oh no existence. So, normally we kind of just, you know, offer to pay the band enough where like, okay, like this is going to be worth your time and they kind of, you know, book a few other shows maybe with a booking agent and then um they figure out the visa and you know there's a visa agency that most bands use and it's pricey. It's like thousands of dollars to do the visa.

1:26:38Um so yeah, it's just really you just got to like have to pay the visa tax, you know.

1:26:47But that is definitely a a struggle with a lot of the bands. Like if you want a European band, that's why we have to start booking it a year in advance because it takes so long to get the visa. You can't like reach out to them two months before the event because it can take like nine months to get through which is crazy.

1:27:06Yeah. I I I'd like to think hopefully that maybe in the future it will be easier for artists in general to travel because I know it it's the same when you know US bands go over to different countries just a lot to navigate the visas. So yeah.

1:27:23Oh does it go the other way around? Like, do you need visas to get perform in other countries?

1:27:29Even Canada. Yeah.

1:27:30Really? I wasn't even aware of that. I thought it was just

1:27:34the US was particularly tough. Or at least that's kind of the vibe I got.

1:27:38But um yeah, I don't know.

1:27:41Yeah, it's it's a lot. I mean, um, I'd like to think that maybe eventually the world will be the world as a as a whole will be smaller and easier to travel from from country to country, but yeah, it's it's it's challenging even for American bands to go abroad as well. So, yeah. Yes.

1:28:00Got harder over the years. I feel like the visa has gotten more visas gotten more expensive over the years, which is

1:28:08But what can you do?

1:28:10Yeah. But it is really great that you're able to bring over um like artists as well because for an American audience that isn't able to travel like it's so cool that they'll get to experience artists from these different countries as well, you know.

1:28:25That's true. It is really nice. like it's it makes it kind of special that okay these bands don't really perform in the US so we're able to get them even though it's extra expensive and extra appreciate like it's it's more special for sure.

1:28:45Yeah. But at the same time like

1:28:48I also like want to support like local like US fans because I think like

1:28:55as much as like we want to make it special, we also want to show our support for what what's around us and also build up the industrial gut scene here as well, you know.

1:29:07Yeah, it's very appreciated what you do really. Um, you know, it means so much for for, you know, bands when, you know, you are given the opportunity to be able to perform in in places, you know, or in front of people that you normally wouldn't get to. Um, and to play with other artists like that where you're like, oh, and you it's a very amazing learning experience, too, to get to watch so many different bands at once. So, yeah.

1:29:35But yes, it's very appreciated, for

1:29:37Yeah. Thank you.

1:29:38Yeah. Yes.

1:29:43If there are any other questions, um please drop them in the chat um for for Jets. Um please feel free. And thank you all so much for taking the time to hang out with us. It's been lovely getting to

1:29:57Thank you guys.

1:29:59that's cool.

1:30:01Sebastian stress is another level when it comes to these things. That's true.

1:30:06Yes. [laughter]

1:30:10caulking was good.

1:30:15Music without borders. Yes.

1:30:20Yeah. I think it's it's the thing I love about music in general is just the way it brings people together, you know. I think that's part of um part of the magic and also just that I feel like it makes people really present. So rather than just being on a device or you know um stuck in the the the the internet world, you're actually like in person with people. And um there's something really present about that.

1:30:46I hear that there's kind of like a trend for people to get off social media and to like get away from smartphones. I hear that like flip phones, like dumb phones are coming back. And like part of me is like I kind of like that idea. I want a flip phone. I can't go all live. So, uh, I feel like there's kind of like a movement of getting away from the whole like social media, internet thing, and like just experience in real life.

1:31:15And um,

1:31:16yeah, I really like that. I think I'm totally on board with that. Yeah, it's interesting because I know, you know, you created Vampire Freaks, which was massive, you know, but just the the ideology of just being like, okay, like coming back to a full circle place of just being like really present and not getting

1:31:36you know. Yeah,

1:31:37it's actually funny cuz Yeah, Vampire Freaks was like a big social network for like years and now I am like not on social media at all. Like I haven't posted I don't know in years like and like yeah like I don't know like I was DJing at an event the other day and like I had a couple people ask for my Instagram cuz they liked when I was DJing or whatever and like I haven't posted in like seven years on my Instagram. Like you can add me but there's nothing there. [laughter] So um yeah I don't know. I think that's been like a conscious thing for me is to

1:32:16I guess like less living on social media. And I think part of it is probably that running a social network kind of burned me out and just like all like the I think also it's just like all the online drama kind of burned me out, you know?

1:32:32Yeah. And I feel like, at least for me, like I feel like it seems like it affects people's mental health. Like, you know, that's what they say about the kids growing up on wherever social media they're on. Like, you know, the suicide rates are higher and all that because people get bullied and people are just have all this drama online. And I think that people have trouble separating the online drama from like the real world. I think it doesn't quite

1:33:09so yeah, I think for me like in-person real life events are like really like rewarding for me and like I'm trying to kind of live more like in the moment like not so connected,

1:33:22you know.

1:33:23Yeah. No,

1:33:25I got on that tangent. Yeah. No, absolutely. I think it's it's awesome because it's like I feel like when people are in person, they're less likely to say what they might say online, right?

1:33:38That's so true. You're right. They say like keyboard warriors and whatnot. Like

1:33:46Yeah, cuz I'm like okay. I mean, I was definitely bullied growing up, but like I just feel like if there's a lot of online bullying or online in fighting, I'm like, I can't imagine

1:33:56hearing that out loud, like some of the things people say. So, yeah. Like

1:34:02And I also get like Yeah. on the other hand is like it's a good way to make people aware of stuff online, you know, like that's how you promote stuff as well. So,

1:34:12it's true. There's it's a fine line,

1:34:15right? It's like you still need to promote stuff, but at least for me, like, you know, I personally don't like to share too much of my personal life online just because I don't like to I don't know. I try to distance myself a little bit, but I get the need to promote stuff. For sure.

1:34:38Yeah. I mean, I think there's there can be a healthy balance for sure. I mean, we've met amazing people online. And there's a lot of people in the chat included um that we've met um because of meeting online and I and I I'm really grateful for that. Um and then what's really fun is then when you meet in person and you're like, "Oh, hey."

1:34:58that's so true. You totally have a good point. And you know what? Part of me also kind of misses the days of like when Vampire Freaks was a social networking site. I felt like the internet was just like a different place back then. It was kind of like um felt like kind of like more like accepting almost or maybe like we just had a really good community. But um I think there's definitely like those pockets of of goodness, you know, [snorts] that just like something and it's just like yeah, like you know, people have like certain like cool like groups or Discord servers or whatever

1:35:35where like it's just

1:35:36there definitely is like still good communities. I got it.

1:35:41Absolutely. Absolutely. like this community included like the I think the dark force um/vampire freaks community like it's it's still very much alive and you know you see just how like um I don't know I think very giving people are like they're just very positive and I think that still exists. Absolutely.

1:36:02So yeah.

1:36:04Yeah. And I think I honestly I feel like it's it's deep within our core as humans to just want to connect. Like I think we all really want to connect with each other. And

1:36:17you know,

1:36:18it is a way to find people who are like, "Oh, you're into this kind of music. I'm into this kind of music." And you know, you can you can connect in that way when you meet people online. Yeah.

1:36:30Somebody wants a Alice social network called the rabbit hole. I love it. Yes. [laughter] We shall make it. So

1:36:40that would be very fun.

1:36:44Scott is our tech guru. So I think Scott, if we could please request a rabbit hole.

1:36:50Scott, you got some homework to do.

1:36:54No problem. [laughter]

1:36:59Got two weeks. Make it happen. Oh man, I love that you um when you were talking about your early beginnings of Vampire Freaks that you actually had like the tech background to put it together because you mentioned Eric having a tech background. And so

1:37:18I think it's really cool that you inhabit like

1:37:21different sides of your brain that are it's creative but also like the technical side that knows how to put things together.

1:37:27Yeah, totally. I've always been a tech geek. going to school for computer science and had some corporate programming jobs for a while and I think the vampire social network kind of worked because I was able to do all the programming but also I was into goth industrial stuff. So, it was kind of a uh like a I guess kind of needed both both kind of needed both of those aspects to be able to do the computer geek stuff but also have the love for the the scene.

1:38:03Yeah, it worked out. It's good times.

1:38:07Yeah. Like totally. I've always been a geek. I

1:38:12website stuff. also do some coding here and there, but then a little bit out of a little bit, but haven't haven't quite been into it as much. But I always love computer stuff, just geeking out. So

1:38:25Everybody's doing vibe coding, which I don't quite understand. But apparently I'm out of the loop at that stuff, but uh the world just changes so fast. It's

1:38:35It does. Especially with technology, for

1:38:38Yeah, right.

1:38:39That's true. program and stuff like you gotta stay on top of.

1:38:43Yeah. But I think it's really cool. I've met a lot of people in our community um you know that isn't a goth industrial music or are musicians themselves that also have like the technology brain. So I think it's actually a different it's like a different expression when you're like oh what can I create you know with engineering. I think that's really cool.

1:39:02That's true. You'd be surprised like how many like different professions there are for people in the goat scene. You know, there's like pilots and lawyers and like you like tech geeks and all that and like you wouldn't quite expect like you know these people like all goth up at the goth club and like they're like latex and fishnetss and all that to actually have like real like legit professional jobs and they do and it's like you know it just kind of goes to show that you know people are multiaceted and you and actually do something successfully and still be a weirdo. [laughter]

1:39:45Absolutely. Absolutely. I like the idea that we don't have to be pigeonholed into just one thing. Like you can absolutely wear like different hats and express in different ways. So yeah. Well, my dear friends, um, uh, if you guys don't have any more questions, um, thank you all again so much for joining us. Um, it's been such a joy. Jet, thank you. Thank you for taking the time. I know you are so busy and you juggle so much and it really means a lot that you took the time to chat with me today.

1:40:21Oh, thank you. It was good chatting with you. But like I feel like sometimes I'm like I need some more social interaction. So it's nice to kind of connect with people and um yeah, I appreciate it. It was great chat.

1:40:34Yes, absolutely.

1:40:35Thanks, Scott. And um

1:40:38no problem.

1:40:40Oh yeah, tech mastermind over here showed up. You guys are awesome. That's cool that people like showed up to the chat and kind of joined in, you know? That that's super cool. I see a lot of love for for the things that you've

1:40:56Yay. Oh, I appreciate

1:40:58you guys are awesome and I appreciate the support and uh

1:41:02yeah, it's good chatting with you and I got to check out some more of your unwritten rules of the road. I watched a couple episodes. It was really good. So, I meant to you guys check out some more of them.

1:41:13Thank you. It's been such a joy. Like you were saying like you're like, "Oh, I should probably be social." And I was, you know, when we do shows sometimes it's really hard, you know, to be able to really get to have a conversation when you're in a club and it's loud and there's a lot going on. So, you know, it's been so cool to get to like know people a little bit better, you know, hear, you know, about the inspiration and and you're a very inspiring person, Jet. Like really very inspiring. So,

1:41:41thank you. I appreciate it.

1:41:42Yeah. Well, many many loves, my friends.

1:41:46love. Yes.