Nuda, SINE and Curse Mackey, in full

2:42Hi friends. I am Tash and this is Unwritten Rules of the Road. Thank you all so much for joining us uh this evening. We are joined today by our wonderful friends um Rona from S. Uh, we've got Nuda and we've got Curse Mackey. Um, thank you all so much for joining us.

3:04Hey, thanks.

3:05Thanks for having us.

3:07Yes, [laughter]

3:09my dad was calling.

3:11Oh. Oh, hi dad.

3:12Hi, Dad. [laughter]

3:15He might get some sass. So, I understand why he has to answer. [laughter]

3:21Family is always priority. Understood. Yes. [laughter]

3:26Yeah. Uh, so this is actually a first for Unwritten Rules of the Road. Um, we have not had multiple artists like this. So, this is exciting. Um, congratulations y'all on the close of your Divine Creatures tour.

3:43Thank you.

3:44Thank you so much.

3:45It was great.

3:46Yeah, it was good. I liked it a lot. Rona, you're just amazing to work with. And Curse, you're also awesome, too. So, it was just like the best company I could have. It was great.

3:56Oh, you too. We We loved being on the road with you, too. You're amazing.

4:01Thanks. I was happy to have Drew, too, on the book ends of it.

4:05Oh, yes.

4:06That's right. Yeah, it was was good good good little planned event, and I thought we uh worked as a team really well.

4:16so the the tour um started in August August 7th um and ended August 16th. Um, when did y'all start planning the tour?

4:28The February.

4:32Yeah. Yeah. I think that was the first time. So, um, Kaylee sent me an email and had expressed interest to try and do a tour. And at first, I think we were talking like April and and then after a few emails, you came back and you were like, "Uh, I don't want to do April. It's too soon. It's freaking me out." you were like, "Okay,

4:54there's a lot to do. There's not enough

4:57And I was like, "Yeah, I I agree." So, we tried to push it to July and things up so quickly that it just ended up in August. So, that's really how it all came about was just getting ahead of the schedule enough that we could put these these uh shows together. Yeah, there's definitely a a good like there's like a sweet spot in terms of like how much time you want to be able to plan for tours. So, yeah, seems like you guys hit that pocket in terms of being able to book the shows and plan and promote and everything. So, yeah, big kudos to Rona on that cuz basically

5:40basically I was just like messaged her cuz we met at Mechanism last year. This year, I don't know time anymore. this last one.

5:48I know. It [laughter] was this last one we did. Yes.

5:50Yeah. This last one because Se was also on there and we got to see you for the first time

5:55and I remember we all synced up after the show. Um or after our sets were like, "Oh my god, you're amazing. Like we should stay connected." And so I remembered that and I was like, "I want to be with more like um female or fem artists like in this industry because like we are solid. There's a lot of us out there. like how can we team up and do stuff together more? And then I had a wild idea of like I'm kind of intimidated by Rona, but she's doing awesome things and maybe she'll like me. Oh my gosh, we'll [laughter] see. So I sent some emails like, "Hey, what do you

6:28think about doing a tour together and you're like, "Yeah, sure." And then you just went like

6:33took everything by by the horns and made it happen. Um, but you helped us a lot too because we had an anchor date that kind of helped push things along and that was the coffin that kind of pushed

6:46Yes. So that that was the main factor is I wanted to get the coffin on a

6:54I had some target uh dates that I wanted certain cities and because of all the tours that we've done and also with Curse uh the tours he's done, I just took that knowledge and started to put things together because uh Kaylee had expressed like what markets she wanted to get into and try to go and I had done this run similar uh with uh I speak Machine and Beastial Mouth. So we had a few differences like we didn't do Sacramento this time um and we did Bakersfield this time we didn't do last time. So a lot of that was the connections I made before and um so I

7:35just kind of followed that same formula and um tried to make it as pleasant as possible as far as routing goes and self-preservation which is so important. And of course, Kayleie's awesome and she like, oh, she's a ace. I mean, I learned stuff from her this time. Seriously, [laughter] I always look for ways and like your program of doing this show, you know, helps us do better and better and you always learn something from from everyone. So, I thought it was great.

8:07Oh, thanks. Absolutely. And I learned a lot from Tash and Scott, too, from being on tour with them. So, it's just like a domino effect of of good good uh learning lessons, too. It's wonderful.

8:19So, you did this, Tash. [laughter]

8:22It is amazing how I feel like every tour that you do and every experience that you have with people like builds on each other like hopefully, right? Um, and you can apply that to whatever the next one is. Like, I mean, on this particular tour, are there any particular like things that you guys would say that you

8:47trying to think.

8:48I think every tour we kind of learn what we don't want.

8:51Yeah. [laughter]

8:53Like trying to think of the positive.

8:57I mean, for the most part, I I feel like we like uh we're a good pair. Um Kaylee and us, we we have similar ways of touring. And again, it's like self-preservation and just making sure you're at your best and you don't suffer too much because being on the road's hard. But I think just having that common goal really helped us tour. Well,

9:21yeah. I think the same same like in a way professionalism level and work ethic and like you said just having the same vision in mind and those steps to get there cuz like I feel like some people have different steps to get to a certain point and that can clash uh but I feel like we were on the similar page with a lot of the areas and that that helped tremendously.

9:44Yeah. to for me uh touring is about growth and it's about the opportunity to grow and when Kaylee had suggested that we do a co-headlining I was like that's great because I I don't know I just have this thing about um the term headliner you know in in some ways yes it's very valid of course but some when you're just trying to share a bill and tour together and you're kind of building your careers together I kind of see it as like a way to just highlight light each other. And so we did we flip-flopped our spot on the bill. So it it wasn't like I always play last or she

10:22always play last. We just kind of flip-flopped it and um determine that city, I guess. And um I thought it worked really well because there were there were several times where I mean, you know, at the end I I left off in a pup of smoke and then we went to Merch Booth, you know, and there were times where Kaylee and and Drew would be out there and just like explode and everyone's like, "Oh my god." And then that'd be the end of the night. So both ways I I feel were um we're equal. And I like that. I like that ability to grow and not have to be like, you're the

11:00little band, I'm the big band, you know? It's like, we're in this together. We're doing it together,

11:06so let's hold hands. And [laughter]

11:10you know, I mean, I like it that way.

11:13Yeah, it's awesome when you find people on the same page um that you feel like you can really co-create with. Um, and it does make a huge difference when you have like obviously you get along like that's so important and hopefully become friends. Like I think that's, you know, something that's

11:33vital, you know, it's it's it's incredible when you start making friends in our community and then it becomes lifelong friendships. definitely grown closer since like the beginning stages of planning and talking and emailing to like getting to the nitty-gritty detail of like what like um extra things we're going to bring to have like on the road since we're bringing a trailer and whatnot and then to actually meeting each other in person and picking Rona and Curse up from the airport [laughter] late at night like oh my gosh we're finally doing this is happening holy cow and then just each day just kept growing

12:10more and more, you know, bonds and I just I just loved it. It was hard to say goodbye after the last day. I didn't want to go.

12:18It is because you just kind of go through so much together and you basically like live in a car together, live in cars and hotels together and venues, you know?

12:26And like

12:28I don't know. It's um it's kind of a mutual appreciation in in my opinion. It's because we're all doing it. It's hard work loading in gear and soundchecking and doing all that stuff and then trying to eat dinner and take care of yourself. It's tough.

12:45Yeah. It's tough. And so I just look at it as like we're in this together. So no matter what issue comes up,

12:52we're in this together. You know, we're going to spend 10 hours in a car together. Yay. [laughter]

12:58You know, and and it was it was great because we had all the snacks because Kayleie's a great snack packer. She did awesome. I was like, "Oh, that's so great." Love I loved it. But um and of course, Curse, you know, was was our our support is my support animal. [laughter]

13:21I'm just kidding. I'm a animal.

13:23No, really, it was great having him. Yes. Support beast.

13:27Um coming along and and doing a special DJ set of all fem artists. I thought was that was fun. I really liked that too as it was good.

13:37It went with the theme and I loved it.

13:40There's so many of us out there.

13:43I mean, but

13:48I think that you all did a great job as a pair. So, it was fun for me to watch and kind of be in the back seat and and there to help and provide some support both creatively with the DJ set which was all female forward. And there are so many awesome artists that got uh that we were listening to and that I played. And it's it's really exciting to see that aspect of what's going on at large, but then also to see you two work together in a really effective manner and very organized. And

14:23I think everybody played to their strengths quite well. Like uh Kaylee, you had the vehicle and a little bit of the the idea of what where to go and you organized that. To me, as a person that normally ends up doing that, it was great to see you effectively go, I have the vehicle, I got the trailer, I'll pick you up. Like, I got the like the arrival kind of package and then the the V tour vehicle is organized. So, that's very helpful and super solid. And then Rona, you really was quite great in booking the tour. Like, just got right on it after you talked. and the way y'all

15:02collaborated on, you know, I know somebody in Eugene and or we're working on Fresno and Bakersfield and how it all came together and then I got to book the hotels and that was kind of just I mean it's a good way to spend some time and and contribute and help out

15:19very helpful

15:20being there to help you out and um watch you make something great happen. And I know it was great because I was in the audience nightly and I saw and got to interact a lot more with with some of the audience throughout the evening than I would if it was just a Curse Mackie show where I would be very occupied with my own gear and stuff. But just playing music for a while and then getting a chance to talk to people more was really fun to see them engage with your music. And I know there was a lot of people that had heard of you but hadn't heard

15:51it. So,

15:52y'all should both be very happy and uh proud of the accomplishment.

15:58I I am

15:59I am I think we kicked ass.

16:01Yeah, we did.

16:02Were great. It was great. We had a good

16:05Yeah, I think it was a mic drop set night every time. Yeah, LA was great.

16:11Oh, LA was great. It was amazing.

16:13San Francisco. I mean, all every every city had it own every they all had their own little hidden

16:19gym of a of a moment. Like in Bakersfield, all of a sudden it like

16:25some ice breaks and then the crowd just swinging each other around in this almost like dance challenge. Breakbe

16:33almost like gothic break beat, street dance challenge. I don't know. That was really cool. Like danceoff, yes, is the right word. So that was neat. Fun

16:45Yeah, that that that was that was surprising, but that was a lot of fun. [laughter] And we have video of it, which I I think I posted some on my Patreon or something. But yeah, I think uh Tash, you had mention mentioned like what what um what venues or what cities were a surprise. I would say Bakersfield was definitely a

17:11because we did not know what to expect. I mean, we

17:14played Jerry's Pizza and that's like the place to play

17:18and um I had asked friends of ours uh Kid Barrett, the band Kid Barrett had played there and they said, "Oh, it's a it's a punk rock a pizza joint basement like kind of thing." And I was like,

17:33I'm not sure." And it really was.

17:38But the people

17:41were It was an all ages show, so we had a lot of young people there and

17:45they were all amazing. And uh after Nuda played, I mean, she was getting swarmed at the merch booth and they were like, "Oh my god, [laughter]

17:56all the babys."

17:58They were like, I mean, but I love seeing young people enthusiastic like that. It's really fun

18:03because it's like they they've just been exposed to something that they never knew what was coming. [laughter]

18:10So, um Yeah. So, Bakersfield was a surprise and uh we would definitely go

18:16I would go back.

18:17It was hot. It was fun. It was in a

18:20There was pizza.

18:22Yes. Yes. All all the all the all the prerequisites, I think.

18:28Yeah. It's um we've uh Mankind is Obsolete played at Dre's Pizza. We actually blew the circuit. Um so we have memories of like smoke like coming from

18:39Yeah, it's it's a total punk rock place, but it's awesome. And I love that it's all ages, too.

18:44Blowing the circuit Like, wait, that's not the fog machine.

18:50Yeah. [laughter]

18:53Yeah. But it's awesome. And I I mean um there it's it's it's really interesting when you look at Pacific Northwest routing. Um so it's like getting from like Northern California to Oregon up to Seattle or or vice versa. It's like pick picking like the cities. Eugene is great for that. Bakersfield is great for that. Um and there's some amazing communities I've seen in those areas. So

19:18Reno is a fantastic stop as well.

19:21Reno is awesome.

19:22Really great. We've been there twice and they've both been really fun.

19:28Yeah, it's at uh we played the Holland Project which is an all ages place as well and they are a drug and alcohol-free environment. It's kind of a safe space but also an art gallery and space and uh I thought that was great. It was an early show and um I loved it. It was just like the last time Curse and I played there. It's

19:54it's like these people come and they're just they're just discovering you

19:59and doing it, you coming to see what's what's the happenings, you know, so that's kind of fun.

20:05It's a great place and and they they took really great care of us

20:10and um we would definitely go back. It's it's a great place.

20:14The enthusiastic fans at that location, too. And the age range was on both sides there. It was really, really cool.

20:23Yeah. And we had some good Indian food on arrival.

20:26That was amazing. [laughter]

20:28Yes. When we really wanted I mean we really needed the food. I mean we had drove from Eugene to Reno. So that's a long drive.

20:37And so we were all bugeyed and hungry by the time we got [laughter] there. When we went into the restaurant, they gave us looks like, um, we promised we just wanted to be here for food. [laughter] there's three of us. Like, who are these people off the streets? Get them out of here.

20:55I know. Really? But yeah, it was good.

20:58It was great.

20:58Reno was awesome. We have good friends

21:01So, we're getting a question from Burning City. Thank you for your question. Um, how are the different venue managements these days in 2026? friendly, supportive, sirly, fill in the blank.

21:16I felt that everyone was friendly. Everyone that booked us really wanted us and treated us well.

21:24And um you know, I mean, like I definitely have to uh like Drew says in the chat, [laughter] Portland Coffin Club was kind of Shout out to Ivette and the crew. Yes. And let me tell you, Ivet is one of the

21:44in my opinion. Uh, every time we've been

21:48she sets us up for success and sets everyone up for success.

21:55so, um, and then, uh, Sip in the, um, San Francisco crew at DNA Lounge.

22:04So great. always always personable. Everyone always welcomes us. Um, great

22:11Yeah, the staff was really great there.

22:15Fun House was great in Seattle. They took good care of us.

22:19Yeah, they did.

22:19Fun House, that was the first time I had played Funhouse, so that was an interesting experience.

22:25It was probably the hottest show, if you can believe that.

22:28I mean,

22:29it was warm up there. Yeah, Phoenix was hot, but man, that Funhouse stage, it was sweltering, [laughter] but they did take great care of us.

22:39Yeah. Gosh.

22:41That's great. That's really great that um it just seems like overall, you know, you've you had very positive experiences um with all the venues and the

22:52Yeah. And I have to also give a shout out to Bats in the Attic in Phoenix because uh Troy and Tammy are the best. They will take care of you like family. They make sure you have food. They will not let you go hungry. They will not let you go tired. They will make sure you get a good night's sleep, a shower, whatever you need. I mean, it's it's wonderful to find people like that that will set up shows for you and make sure that they um they take, you know, that you're taken care of. And they really did take care of us.

23:22Yeah. And their promotion was on point, too. Like I think they had one of the best promo promo videos in the whole whole thing.

23:29Agreed. I thought their promo was really good. Um, Club Nevermore in Los Angeles, their their promo was really good.

23:37Uh, that show was at Monty Bar and uh, beautiful place. The first time I had been there.

23:43Yeah, same. It was good. And then we got to see Tash and Scott there.

23:48So that was a nice mini reunion.

23:52It was great. and thank you for being there. Really, this is

23:55of course great to see.

23:57I love um supporting my friends. I love live music and it's always wonderful when it's like the convergence of of everyone together. Um I loved seeing Curse on your DJ set because I remember when we were talking about how you first started out, it was from DJing. Um, and I've I've seen you perform um several times now as as you know with your project, but it was really cool to see the DJ set. So, yeah.

24:26Excellent. Yeah. Thank you. It was like I said, and I I do appreciate the nod. I because I kind of had that moment like I think at the in LA the at the Monty the DJ booth was very nice and I was enjoying it and uh I was like, "Oh, cool." It's kind of like a throwback to how I began. And you kind of I throughout time I've lost track of DJing as much just because you get very absorbed in your in the making of your own music or the production of your own music and working in the studio remixing things. So the live DJ opportunities are

25:00are usually just like special events. So to do a little DJ tour

25:05was a cool experience too. And then like I said, getting to play other people's music that I like and help promote that and just make it part of the overall theme of the event, [clears throat] you know, like Disexual and Boy Harer and Pixel Grip and oh god, Nightclub, Suzy just there's I mean I need to actually post a list of all the artists played Leathers and I mean I think I have like 40 artists that I thought were really awesome and all and also dating all the way back to like playing Lydia Lunch and Chris and Cozy kind of more Kim Gordon like earlier

25:47foundational I think like powerhouse female artist that helped make industrial and dark interesting music early on as well as what's contemporary and popular now or getting popular in the clubs. So yeah, it was good.

26:04Yeah, that's awesome. Um it's it's I you know definitely would love to see the playlist because it's always um inspiring, educational as well where you're like, "Oh, this is an artist I'd love to check out." So yeah. Okay. I made a playlist on Spotify. I'll put it in the chat.

26:25I was curious about that, too.

26:27Play game. Carlos is asking um for Rona um what do you love about your costume tour outfit for this year? uh, for those that seen me and probably seen the pictures, I usually like to have a mask or do something kind of mysterious when I arrive. Um, I guess the, um, what I love about my costume this year is probably the cape. That thing I mean, oh gosh. I mean, the fact that I can just like I mean, and there's actually a photo by Christelle, right?

27:08Is that how you say? Okay. Crystal.

27:09Um Christelle in Portland

27:12and she caught my cape swoosh and it just looks so amazing. But

27:17something about a big black long cape just makes you feel kind of elegant and evil and all kinds of fun.

27:25So, I would say that's what I like the most. Um, besides my scary face, which I have many of, which you can see there's a couple retired ones up there. I'm surrounded by faces. So, um, but yeah, that's probably one of my favorite things uh that I have this year. Oh, and my tutu. I love my tutu.

27:48Yes. [laughter] Yes. It is great.

27:52Yeah. Oh, yes. And uh and in the chat it says the cape was perfect for capturing projections. Yes. So that kind of happened on accident because I like to interact with my backgrounds and in the beginning I put my arms up and the projection catches my cape and looks pretty cool because a lot of the times I make these projections I don't get to see what I look like really. I kind of guess what it looks like, but when I see pictures or see

28:22video, I'm like, "Oh, okay, great. I'm doing the right thing." So, thank you for that.

28:29Totally. Um, actually, that uh there's uh Brent um is asking a question. Um Brent's a photographer and capturing live music is is my passion. I'm 90% of the way to securing Cold Wave Chicago photo credentials. That's amazing.

28:47Um, does anyone have thoughts or general comments on concert pickics?

28:55We like them if they're good.

28:57Yeah. [laughter]

29:00Yeah. I I really think it's all about the angle, honestly. Um, especially for us females, it's it's tough. You know, we're scrutinized

29:10every day of our lives, every day. And uh you you've got to capture us in the best way where our faces look smooth, you know, where I mean because everybody can look like this. [laughter] And if you're down there taking photos of us looking up, of course at times we're going to look like that.

29:30Yeah. I have some of us.

29:32Looking down my keyboard, my jacket like, "Oh, that's not a good angle."

29:35Yeah. Or like body angles, you know? the I think that um there are some really great photographers out there that know how to take pictures of um live music and really the the way I would I guess as a photographer myself um and especially with women, you just have to look at the angles and bodies turned certain ways look thinner and bodies turned forward look bigger and shadows You have to look at shadows and also

30:11is there a light pole coming out of the back of my head in the background. So [laughter] those little things are detail. Yes. Composition. Exactly. So those are things that we look for or shadows. Like [laughter]

30:24I had one photo that I thought was really good, but the shadow made me look like I had a five black shadow I was like, I know I'm the only one that's going to see this, [laughter] but you know, it's stuff like that where you're like, uh, I don't know if I want to post that, you know?

30:44But I don't know. It's tough because again, we're we're so scrutinized and really, it's just all about getting that person to look their best and and making them feel like, wow, I look I look nice. So, I think that's really all the advice I have

31:06Seeing good concert photography is incredible because

31:10work well with the other photographers in the pit or

31:13wherever you're at and be and be kind and courteous and very grateful to the promoter and and

31:20yeah, be chill with artist access. just be work your way in slowly and and if you deliver good photos and are fun to work with, you can follow the path of many other

31:32great rock photographers over the years who have made careers for themselves by being flies on the wall and almost invisible, but delivering the best shot of the night that ends up in a [ __ ]

31:47that kind of

31:48Yeah. We've seen I've seen many photographers grow that way.

31:53And they're doing major stuff now like So, it's like just keep doing it or just

32:02Yeah. We definitely love all the photos

32:04sometimes or a lot of times I try to have someone take photos during the night, whether it's a friend um or there's great photographers in the area. They're like, "Hey, can I come? I want to take photos." I'm like, "Yes, please." Because I don't have the time to try to set up anything on my own. It's just good to have that um uh just availability for someone to capture something at every every event. It's really good. It's good for our promo. It's good for content. It's good for so many things. So, we can use it, post it. And oh, a big one. Please use a logo on

32:36your photos if you post them so we know who you are because we can get a slew of photos and it's for me personally hard to go back and figure out who it was

32:45or I tag the wrong person the wrong person sometimes I'm like I'm sorry I don't remember who took this. It was really good but

32:52yeah add your add your logo to it or splash somewhere so that way I can remember you because I want to make sure I give you credit.

33:00Yeah, I agree with that. I I've run into that a lot where I've had a photo and I just don't have the person's name and I don't want to be offensive and not give them credit. But yes, I agree with that. And uh Peter Russo says Kaye that um he took a photo of Nuda last time you played Savannah and it ended up being your promo post for the next day and it made him feel like he did something cool.

33:28Oh yeah, cool. I remember that one. It was a full-on banner shot. [laughter]

33:34Yeah, that was great. I like seeing

33:37Yeah, I think it's uh it's really fun when you get to share that moment with the photographer, like share their photo and then it's like you and them kind of shared that moment because uh Yeah, Crystal and Cybermind.

33:52Oh, Cybermind's always there in Seattle.

33:55Yeah, we love We love Larry.

33:57Yes, we do. But we appreciate all of it. It It means the world to us and it helps us get out there more and it helps us use [snorts] uh those photos to entice people to come to the shows and stuff.

34:15Yeah, it's it's very appreciated and it's always um awesome too to see other people's art because I feel like it's again a collaboration. It's awesome when you see other people's interpretation of like how they are perceiving you in your element. So that's always amazing to see and and congratulations by the way on being so close. We'll keep our fingers crossed to being able to secure the Cold Waves um photo credentials because that's awesome. I've heard such amazing things about Cold Waves. Um actually um Curse you are getting a question um from Burning City. Um at any point did some lessons from Kurs's book the sound

34:56philosophy come into play during the

35:02Uh yeah for me.

35:05Yeah. Yeah. I I had to I I had to talk myself back into line a few times behind the scenes in my own mind. I don't know about for anybody else but I you seemed like you were okay.

35:20I was I had a great time.

35:21You did?

35:22No, but but actually it was fun. I did a book reading in Reno which was a fun experience at the Holland project to

35:30read a few little chapter essays from the book and then have it along. So this

35:37sound philosophy was with us. Oh, thank you Kate. [laughter] So yes, it does play into it.

35:48It helps us all. That's I guess just I think the one active lesson that I saw amongst us. We we didn't really have nothing really. We [clears throat] were able to keep a pretty level head because we didn't really have we weren't excessively challenged by anything we didn't weren't prepared to face. So we had and the way the tour was routed, it was done well to where we weren't grinding hard drives. Yes, good job, Rona, on the routing. So really, I think it was just playing to our strengths was like kind of like a strategy of like when where you build a mastermind of people of like how what how what makes

36:24for a great tour group. Um, somebody's got a car, somebody's willing to deal with the transportation [ __ ] somebody's over here booking,

36:33willing to drive.

36:34Somebody else made a promo video. We all drove equally. Um, you know, so that was a very important part of everybody, you know, staying fresh versus one person going like, "Fuck, man, you're never driving." You know, so like I've seen bigger bands that I've been in grind down because of of misplaced or people not willing to pull the weight of shared responsibility. So in this little micro casm that we had, it was a very nice splitting of duties and time and responsibilities and and communication was good. And uh the the the app Scott's app was quite effective too.

37:23I do recommend. I think it's good and worth it.

37:28It's a It's a good thing.

37:31So that was fun to use, too.

37:33Tour is awesome. It's uh it's what I've been using to book the Alice tours for the past 10 years. um instead of prep spreadsheets because I was just using spreadsheets. So um Scott built the app to help all the Alice tours. So it's awesome to see it out in the world and he made a mobile app um actually. I'd be curious to see how you use it for tour booking.

37:58Yeah, I'm actually doing it right now because I'm I'm booking um a late spring tour for Alice next year. Um, and so yeah, I I use it in lie of um spreadsheets and um a lot of the way I organize and plan actually kind of informed the way he built Tourouter. So um yeah, it's it's actually been really helpful to like plan all of our stuff. So, but that's awesome that you guys were able to actually find use in it. was I was I was curious cuz it's always just been an Alice app, you know. So, I was like, I wonder how other people will um you know, be able to use

38:39it and hopefully it was helpful.

38:41Yeah, it was great cuz Scott and I were talking and he'll help me get it all set up and be the guinea pigs for for it, too. So, I got to import or he helped me import a lot of the stuff that we had already on the spreadsheet that Rona put together. And then I went in and kind of went through a fine tooth comb and like tweaked some odds and ends and gave some feedback on areas u that would just enhance the experience overall. And Scott and I are both nerds with, you know, it backgrounds, so we kind of spoke the same language when it came to

39:10like sharing sharing feedback with everything. Um, but it was great just seeing like the list and our the biggest point to me was like our schedule for the day of like what what's going on the entire day from hotel check-in to load in to um a run a show or set list when we have to load out of just all the things just in one single view was really helpful. And um another thing that was super helpful for us was like seeing all the expenses split between everyone with like just like I got gas this round and then Rona got gas on this round and like we can just detail it out

39:48and just an easy view and I it was very easy to use and I loved it.

39:56Yeah. That's awesome. It's it's really awesome because I feel like when you're on tour, um I mean you guys mentioned the lack of sleep and you know all the things that you're having to juggle and so trying to at least get it planned beforehand I think kind of eliminates at least that level of stress. So

40:18So big shout out to Scott and his efforts for getting that up and ready for us in time because that was like I know all he was working on. [laughter] I had it. Yeah.

40:27Thank you.

40:28Yes. Scott is currently building three apps as we speak. He's just kind of a

40:34crazy mastermind. Yeah. [laughter] He actually built an Alice merch fulfillment that I used for our Kickstarter that I was like I don't know. I would have been lost without it. So, anytime I've run into like any kind of technical challenge, I'm like, can you build me an app? [laughter] So, yes. Um, but that's awesome. And I love that it's a mobile app at this point because it was just like web interface before. So he was very inspired by the Divine Creatures tour to like lift it off the ground. So yes.

41:06So are um are you guys I I've I know that um Curse and Rona, you guys have a Nitzer tour coming up. Yep.

41:17Are you already like

41:19Are you already in like sort of like a getting ready for the tour at this point or are you [laughter]

41:26Yes. Oh, yes. I've got stuff ready to go for rehearsals.

41:32Ordered merch. Um, what else? I don't know. Lots.

41:39Figure out where all your gear is. All the parts are from the end of Divine Creatures. It's kind of like an overlap of like post tour confusion with the like, oh god, I better hurry up and set my gear up and start rehearsing.

41:53And like a lot of other things. So yeah,

41:57it's an interesting in between zone, isn't it? When like when you're going

42:01there's a short amount of time between tours where you're like, am I am I quite home yet? Not quite.

42:09I I I don't feel like it. It's like we just got back from that last tour, but I'm but I'm ready for this

42:16upcoming tour because I prepared. I'm like I'm going to make sure I get everything done really early and not feel like rushed or anything. So, I've been like getting all obtaining all the things I need to get like merch and luggage and whatever random things I'm going to pack my stuff in and just do it all ahead of time. That way I feel good once the day starts to get closer. The Divine Creatures tour was a good

42:44Yeah, for sure.

42:45Just getting warmed up in a way

42:48as well. So, I think we're feeling pretty good.

42:52The Nights Red Tour.

42:54Going to be great. Ready for it.

42:56I love them. They're really

42:58excited for you.

42:59Thank you.

43:01Have you toured with Have you toured with them before?

43:03Uh, only as their percussion player in their tour.

43:09Yeah. Yeah.

43:10Um I did a string of dates um a while back with them,

43:16but this will be the first time we're touring as like Sign and Curse Mackie. So that's going to be fun. I mean, we've opened for them as Sign and Curse Mackey in Texas in Dallas and Austin, but we haven't toured with them. So, this is going to be a fun trip and um really excited about it because they they become really good friends since I've we've both worked with them and I did those shows with them. So, it's fun. It's like I was on stage with them and now I get to be support and that means the world to me.

43:54Yeah. But it's it's such a testament to um just obviously how awesome you guys are because I mean N is an example of you guys you know connected and then you did a tour together and you're still friends. Um and same with the upcoming tour. I mean it says a lot. Um so you know it's it's awesome because I feel like our community is much smaller than one could imagine. Like it's a pretty small community. Um, and so the fact that you meet people, you actually become friends, and you're like, "Hey, let's actually let's do this again."

44:30I think tours can make or break people in some way. And I think you can see people's true colors.

44:39Yeah. So, I'm happy with

44:41living with each other basically kind

44:43Yeah. Yeah. And like sort of like your um um lowest energy state possible.

44:50Yeah. It's very it's very stressful

44:54and and being able to work together in those environments and still be okay with each other and still be smiling. You know, it's like that's the big part about touring is you have to roll with the punches. You just have to deal with it when you're tired. You deal with it when you're hungry. You deal with it when you haven't slept. Whatever the case is. I mean that that's the way Curse and I have always toured all these years. is we just get up and do it and we need people that are the same when we tour and Kayle's very much like that. So that's why everything worked out so

45:32perfectly because I mean there was no fooling around. [laughter] We were just doing it, you know, so it was good. It was a good collab.

45:43Yes. And that's important when you're touring because, you know, I'm sure everybody has their horror stories of touring with different bands and surely Curse Pig Face and Evil Mothers and all the other tours you've been through with more than just two little girls. [laughter] Um I I'll take the two gals time. Thanks. That was great.

46:16Over the eight dudes. [laughter] Ford F-150

46:21or the two of you. Yeah.

46:25Oh, that it was really good. I I I mean I cherish it. So, um yeah, I just think it was both of you. Obviously, the main thing is it just comes down to some of it's just physical effort and preparation because

46:41there are lights, there's gear, you know, Kaye, you have a rack that's pretty like, okay, like um looks heavy on, you know, initially, but you're you you carry it and you move it and you like you pull your own weight and then you contribute beyond that. Mhm.

47:00That's really a fundamental that is required of anybody that wants to have longevity in this thing, right? like to last five or 10 years, you have to have that ethic

47:14to put forward and that way because sometimes you'll be in a situation where you need the help and people are going to be willing to help. when you always like just like I know now and I felt that and since the time that I met you and watched you play and meeting Drew and us having some time to talk but as this tour developed um I saw you just being like like you put my mind at ease as to what am I getting into going on this tour

47:42in this unique position where like I'm more of like I'll just say in the back seat versus

47:48typically I'm definitely in the driver's So was both of you made it uh possible for me to have a good time while still kind of working hard and you know carrying gear and things like that and driving and all that. But it was just it was all great. It it made everything

48:06Oh, that means a lot. That's great.

48:09I agree. I mean and and again it's like we're when you're touring with someone, you're all in this together. Everyone's hauling gear. everyone's, you know, to going through whatever the setup is for soundtrack and stuff and it was never like, oh, you're carrying your stuff and we're carrying our stuff and after we carry our stuff, we're just going to watch you go back and forth. No way.

48:32Yeah. [clears throat]

48:32Not like that.

48:33Exact resentment.

48:36It It does. And also, it's like you want to set all of us up for a good night, you know, and that's how we do it

48:45Yeah. you know, it's like we get in and out of a venue quickly because we're all doing it

48:51and not waiting on one person to load out a bunch of stuff. You know, it's just I don't know. There's so many nuances to touring and making it successful and also making it in a way to where you want to do it again with that person and not be like, you know, like okay, no more with that,

49:12you know. Um, I have to say I haven't had that, you know. I mean, everyone we've toured with has actually been really awesome. So, uh, can't complain. But yes, we would I I mean, we would love to do more with Nuda. And I I would

49:28I want to do more with sign, too.

49:32Yeah. And you know what? I I really believe that um that people like I I don't know something about us being together. We're We're somewhat different, but like I don't know, something kind of cool about And I'm not trying to like pat us on the back, but I really do feel like our our package was pretty fun.

49:52I think so, too. It had it had just I think the perfect combination of elements that we were looking for.

50:00Agreed. And we smashed it.

50:02Yeah, we did [laughter]

50:04with the capes and the lights.

50:06I know. The capes and the lights and everything. And so I mean, yeah, it we'll see how we can figure out another leg or even two. I mean, we we've still got Texas and go up through, you know, Oklahoma and all that stuff and Chicago. I really want to hit Chicago and do that

50:27Midwest run. I want to do East Coast

50:30down to Florida. So there's a whole there's a bunch of stuff to be

50:34to be done, but I I really believe that we could put something together and um between her our I guess um tour knowledge and being on tour and hers together, we do great because I bought a little refrigerator that goes in your car because we've talked about this when we [laughter] were on the road actually cuz Chris was like, "Oh man, all these like coconut waters, they're not getting cold, you know, and so when we're driving for like five hours, there's no real cold cold drinks unless you go to a convenience store to get ice. And so I was like, "Oh, maybe we can look into

51:13like a little refrigerator." So I bought one and we're going to road test it when this night's reb run [laughter] and I'm going to report back to Kaylee.

51:24Yes, that's like a cooler. It's like a cooler size and it plugs into your

51:31Yeah. Yeah.

51:33Um so what we did, just so you know, we test we actually tested it and we cooled down some drinks and then we unplugged it and left it overnight and in the morning it was actually still cool. So

51:45that's cool.

51:46Yeah. But anyway, um we're always learning and trying to see how we can make our lives better. But yes, car fridge. That's the next test.

51:57Yeah. I hadn't even heard of a car fridge. That's awesome.

52:01I hadn't either. I mean, you can actually put it on freezer. Like, it can freeze stuff if if you

52:06That's amazing.

52:07Goes goes down to zero to or to

52:12It's amazing. And and honestly, it's also for like leftover food because, you know, when you're on the road, you have you have to just like just take, you know, you're this little forest animal and you're taking all the little diddles and you're keeping them.

52:28Are you talking about me that one time after Bakersfield, I was eating my salad in the back seat at like midnight?

52:33Yes. Yes. We're all little foragers. We have to just take all of our food. But the cooler thing is actually would be nice because there's a couple times we've had leftovers and we've

52:46stopped off at random truck stops and heat them up or whatever. But after two hours, I don't risk food poisoning,

52:56you know. So, a cooler is nice to keep it cool if you're going for four or five hours and you've got to have food with you. So,

53:06it's a good idea. Enough about fridges, but we'll see how it goes. [laughter] Yes. And Peter says, "Touring 2.0 now with the cold drinks." Yeah, cold drinks are important when it's 110 outside and you're driving through Arizona.

53:24Yeah. So,

53:28well, and it's impressive that it kept it cold even in the summer heat. So, it sounds like it's a it's quite the fridge. We'll see how it goes. Like I said, it'll be my first little test run, my thread. See how it goes.

53:43because it's still going to be hot. I mean, we're playing outside in Dallas and that's going to be hot.

53:48That'll be hot. Yes.

53:50And outside. I know. Yucky.

53:53We weren't meant for outside. We need to be inside where our makeup doesn't melt.

53:58I'm glad at least it's at night. At least it's at night after the sun is down. So, yes.

54:04I don't know. Still hot in Texas.

54:07Be like 98 degrees.

54:09All that.

54:10I definitely make music for nightclubs.

54:14Yeah. Not Not outdoors.

54:16But it's okay.

54:18But we do.

54:18I get through it.

54:20We get through it. We do it. And it's We're pros, you know.

54:24We sweat like professionals.

54:27Yes. [laughter] Yes. I will say that um it's been really cool because I've seen you guys on multiple tours now and in different roles. So like I I did see a tour where Rona you were um supporting um the tour with Curse and Pig. Um, and it was really cool to see like I mean just in talking to you like you were an active part of the tour but um you know it's been cool to see you as like both support and also like being on the stage.

55:00Oh yes. I mean whenever that's why whenever Curtis tours I'm there. Whenever I tour he's there and we help each other out. And that's why this whole Divine Creatures thing, I had asked him if he wanted to do the DJ thing because, you know, why not? And talk about his book because he's going to be there anyway helping us. So,

55:22it's um it's it's a great thing with our relationship that we're able to uh work together and do it well and we collaborate on things and we're we're basically again it's setting each other up for success. That's the that's the goal. It's the goal because when you're on tour, you don't want anything but success. [laughter] Anything less than success is sad, as you know.

55:52But I'm always [snorts] I'm always there for him

55:54and um help out where I can.

55:58Yeah. It's awesome. I mean, so much goes into being on tour and it's it's a lifestyle. It's a choice. It's, you know, there's so many other things that you could do with the money and the time and the energy

56:11and the focus and to choose to go on tour um is a huge commitment. And so if you're going to do it, of course you want to do it right, you know,

56:21Um Yeah. And and hopefully it's a positive experience. [laughter]

56:26Yeah. I mean there there are times though I have said many times to myself, I did this to myself on purpose.

56:34I chose this,

56:38you know, but I love it. I It's It's great. I mean, aside from all the the snags and stuff, I mean, being on tour and being on the road and doing it often, um, just helps you prevent those snags. You know, you figure out the things that happen. Again, like I said in the beginning, it's like you kind of know what you don't want

57:00once you experience them and you go, "Okay, this venue has just stares for loadin and then you

57:08just figure it out. You figure out how to do it and you already know it's coming." So, you're like, "All right, we know it's happening."

57:14But, um, I don't know. I mean, again, it's just kind of like being willing and and able

57:24and viewing the stairs is just an exercise opportunity.

57:28Oh, yes.

57:29Gosh, DNA was the worst.

57:32Oh, yeah.

57:34It's good to be active [snorts] somewhat rather than just in a vehicle all day and then all of a sudden and then just waiting for one hour of activity on stage. It's better to like I like the way you think.

57:49Yeah. [laughter]

57:50Oh, yeah. Well, you know, I I had uh so Kaylee hadn't played DNA before and I I told her I said, "Well, load in the

58:00And I'm like, "It is straight up. There's no landing." Like, you just have to feel the burn. You have to be like, "Keep [laughter] going."

58:09Don't stop. Because if you stop, you just [ __ ] it all up.

58:12Uhhuh. [laughter] It's one of those in

58:16Yes. In San Francisco. I mean, we love playing there, but that that stairway in particular, it's like you just have to

58:24go, okay, I'm in it for the long haul.

58:29Oh, but I will say um in Bakersfield actually, we had to go up up and downstairs as well to get uh to the into the venue. And uh at the end of the night, Kayle's got her uh it's your mixer, right? That big case.

58:45Big case. I mean, like it's maybe more than half as tall as she is. Okay. She's

58:53And she bends over like to go up pick it up. And I'm like, "Don't do this." And she's just like [gasps] And she hauled that [ __ ] up the stairs. And I was like, "You're delirious." like [gasps] because I was like, "Let me help you." And she's like, "No, I got it." And she [laughter] had to. But I was just like, "Oh my god."

59:16So, you know, you find those moments of strength, those herculean moments where you're like, "We got to get out of here." [laughter]

59:27Surprisingly, it shows up.

59:30I think that's like That was halfway through the tour was Bakersfield. Yeah,

59:34I think like muscles are starting to get more built for me. I'm like, "Okay, I got this."

59:38Oh, yeah.

59:38This is easier.

59:39Yeah. [laughter]

59:41That was coming off of San Francisco, too. So, just too

59:48But yeah, it's a workout. Got to be in shape. That's one thing I recommend, too. Geez, be in shape before you go on tour or it's gonna hurt.

59:57Yeah. [laughter] I definitely felt better at the end of tour though. I'm like, "Oh, this is great. So much active work in every day and like this is not realistic. Kayla, you can't do this." [laughter]

1:00:09And Kay's like, "My pants don't fit

1:00:13I'm like, "Here's a donut [laughter]

1:00:15in the right direction."

1:00:17I know. Exactly. In the right direction. And I'm like, "Eat a sandwich."

1:00:20Too loose. [laughter]

1:00:23I try to eat as much as possible, too. But I think just with touring, you just there's just times you don't have three full meals in a day. You just get that

1:00:34large one delicious Thai food at the end of the night.

1:00:39Or the night before.

1:00:40Or we have our late night tacos.

1:00:42Yeah, the late night taco picture.

1:00:47that was good. In Reno.

1:00:50We like late night tacos. That's fun. I like the fish taco in Bakersfield and then having makeup pad in the other hand. You're like [laughter] basically because it was like about eight minutes before I got to do anything just

1:01:06Oh yeah.

1:01:07Quickly put on makeup while eat a taco at the same time.

1:01:12The opening DJ.

1:01:14I like that. That's part of your process. The taco makeup process.

1:01:19I'm ambidextrous. I can put makeup [laughter] on while eating a taco.

1:01:24Makeup up here while the taco's down here. [laughter]

1:01:27Make sure you don't swap the two.

1:01:29That's right.

1:01:30Yeah. And you should see what he's doing with his feet. [laughter]

1:01:36Wrapping cables.

1:01:38Wrapping cables

1:01:39under the table while eating. [laughter]

1:01:42These HDMI things all

1:01:47See, we're all delirious now. [laughter] Um, but yes, uh, like Peter says, and sometimes fans bring snacks. We're always down for snacks.

1:01:59Shout out to one of the fans in Seattle. They brought us some Kit Kats from their Japan trip.

1:02:04Oh, yes. Uh, is it copper?

1:02:07Yes, copper.

1:02:08Yes. Brought me banana.

1:02:11Kit Kats.

1:02:14But yeah, it's kind of fun. Mhm.

1:02:17If you know the hospitality is good or the late night. I see the comment from Alice. Alice will mess up some late night tacos real good.

1:02:25Sometimes the driving factor behind playing a show to have those tacos.

1:02:30Yes, I agree.

1:02:30Dip and buy tacos.

1:02:32That's right.

1:02:33Yep. And that's uh even with it kind of goes into even knowing like okay well hey we know we'll get taken care of really well in this town even if the pay is isn't as much. the promoters are awesome or you know the hospitality will be on point from this particular venue.

1:02:51Those things make a big difference like when they can put you up or help provide accommodations those things go a long ways and helping smaller budgets go further and uh amazing street tacos are fine example of something that makes a small budget go

1:03:13it's making me hungry now. [laughter]

1:03:16All the talk of tacos.

1:03:18That's right.

1:03:20Yes. I think we're going to need postream tacos.

1:03:23Yeah. [laughter]

1:03:2510 o'clock here, so it's late night tacos for us.

1:03:29Or maybe midnight. What? Midnight would be late night. I don't know.

1:03:34People are just going out to clubs right now. It's 10 o'clock.

1:03:37Oh, [laughter] yeah.

1:03:38But Texas has awesome tacos. You've got like really amazing tacos in Texas. So,

1:03:47It's different than an LA street taco, but there are definitely the best tacos on the planet

1:03:52in Texas

1:03:54in general.

1:03:56Yes, I do. I do miss my TMEX for sure. It took me a second to get like used to Cali Mex, but I love it now.

1:04:03But yeah,

1:04:07Yes. I grew up on Techmex, so it's aliex is also a different

1:04:13It takes a second. It takes a second. Yes. Yes.

1:04:18But now I love it. So

1:04:20his blood is part salsa.

1:04:23Yes. [laughter]

1:04:28He lives [clears throat] on it.

1:04:32I've been getting I've been I've been getting into making salsa. I was actually texting Nuda cuz I was like, "Do you have any favorite salsa recipes?" Cuz I made a tomatillo avocado

1:04:42and I was like I'm like, "Let's trade some salsa recipes." Like, let's go.

1:04:49Curse does an amazing salsa.

1:04:52Oo, do tell.

1:04:54Yeah. Yeah. It's It's called Curse of Satanic Salsa. [laughter] Satanic salsa. Sorry. And I usually draw little pentagrams on the container. And

1:05:06so yeah, I I'll share the I'll share it or I'll make it for you. I'll

1:05:11share a recipe or make it.

1:05:14that's a just I grew up in San Antonio, so like Texmex chips and salsa like like Rona says,

1:05:20it's in my blood. The backyard was jalapenos instead of grass [laughter] where I grew up

1:05:28and cilantro.

1:05:29Awesome. Yeah. That's amazing. So that's that.

1:05:37Yes. Yes.

1:05:40The merch table maybe.

1:05:42Yeah. [clears throat]

1:05:44I mean

1:05:44we'll try salsa exchange. Like a salsa exchange. Yes.

1:05:53So what do you have on deck, Nuda? um like now that the ashes have settled with um this tour um do you have any exciting shows and music coming up? Yeah, I have some exciting shows coming up. Um I have a one that I put together last year for the first time called Obsidian After Dark. It's at a all ages venue and the only all ages in Tacoma at Real Art. And uh it was a pretty big hit and it was it was very exciting. It also kind of doubles with like it's around my birthday also and it's sort of like a birthday party in a way.

1:06:33So last year on the bill I had like Mortal Realm um and I had uh Ceremony Shadows from Portland and then I had Sumberlux from Eugene. So, it's kind of like a Pacific Northwest four band show and then plus me where um I get to do the extra bells and whistles on [snorts] stage that I wouldn't normally be able to do at like Funhouse or Air Corazone or anywhere else. Um like I put together Upstate After Dark 2 in November uh this time. So, I'm having an augment from Portland. Uh, if you know Zach from Dead Animal Assembly Plant, yeah, him and his partner in crime, Nando, he's actually

1:07:17who um mixes my songs now and who will be mixing them for my next album. They're in the in the project together. Um, they're on it. And then I also have Noria who opened up for us in Seattle. So, they'll be Yeah, those three will be joining us. Um, so that's that's kind of what I'm doing the rest of the year. Nuda wise, I'm also part of Ghost in the Graveyard, another band, and they got like they're Halloween themed. So like we have a Halloween show. I think we're opening up for Powerman 5000 in a couple weeks, and we have like one more other show. So my my book is kind of full the

1:07:53rest of the year, too. So, um, I want to shave more time though to work on new music because this tour was really, really inspiring and I'm trying to carve out time to to work on new stuff because I keep looking at my set list. I'm like, this is the same one as this one. I need to I need to like update this cuz I'm afraid that people are going to get bored by hearing the same songs every time I go up and perform. So, I'm trying to after [snorts] this November one, I'm going to slim down my Pacific Northwest shows by a ton. Um, so I think people

1:08:25should come out to the November one cuz uh, yeah, it's going to be very very far and few between at least uh, for Pacific

1:08:34And it's so cool that it's like, you know, the fact that you're putting it together. Um, and it really shows your vision of things. That's amazing. So, I think it'll be a really special one for for everyone in the region to come to.

1:08:48Thanks. It's it's a lot of fun. Um, I feel like it's right in the center, you know, between Portland and Seattle. So, it's a good meeting place and people can bring their kids cuz like there's a lot of us in the community that has kids and families and they're like, I want to go, but it's 21 and over like, but you can come here. It also has like a MadMax themed restaurant inside or like a sandwich shop inside and if you don't drink either, they have like NA options, too. So, it's like great for everyone and it's a really cool spot, too. Um Sky Sky uses the place for his um music

1:09:19program he directs too. So we're kind of close close family over there.

1:09:25Yeah. So it's fun to put together and like Rona said like I know how I like things to be ran and then I get to do it myself and I get to make an example I guess a good example of like how a show could be put together and run for people. Um, I even got a comment last year of like, uh, if Kayle's putting it together, that means it's going to be good. [laughter]

1:09:48So, that that made me feel really, really, really special cuz I want to make sure, you know, all the bands get like equal pay. Everyone puts in the same effort, the same expectations for everyone. Here's the schedule. I already put it together and sent it to everyone so everyone knows all the details months in advance, and uh, the set times, when to load in, all the good stuff. Um, so I guess I take pride in like this show I get to put together all by myself. Yeah.

1:10:17Awesome. Yeah, it's very appreciated when um you don't have to beg for the details where you're like, "Can you please send me our load in time?"

1:10:28Yes. It's really nice when someone organizes it and you know exactly what to expect. So yeah.

1:10:37Yeah. So, um, are you guys, um, Chris and Rona, um, I know that, um, are you touring beyond the one that you have coming up in September or, um, anything announced besides the that one? Oh, we go from Yeah, we have nights and then we're doing a a show on our own in Birmingham on September 22nd uh at True Story Brewery, uh which will be our first stop there and then we will come home for a bit and then there's a kind of a quite a few things moving parts for the fall. uh some oneoff kind of shows as well as I have a thing that I'm hoping is coming

1:11:30together for Thanksgiving, but I as of unable to divulge what that might be. Um so that that's kind of a thing I'm waiting on too. So yeah, we've got things going and releases planned and so on. So

1:11:50it's exciting.

1:11:51Secret. Yes. Yes. Understood. Well, it's exciting. It's exciting when you um h you know, you have your work behind the curtains, you have your work in front of the curtains. You know, I feel like it's an ongoing process that's very cyclical, right? Like you have your hibernation times, you know, in between. So, yeah.

1:12:12I have a uh I I recorded a soundtrack for a TV series called The Unknowable Dark Land. And so that's going to be a soundtrack album that I'll put out next. So that's something that needs some time and also devotion to my book and book talks. So trying to balance out the Curse Mackey live experience as well as being able to focus on other things. So, I encourage everybody to come see me as well on these nights or dates because they won't be as plentiful for a bit thereafter because I've got other goals that and projects that I need to set up for that will make next

1:12:54year even more fantastic.

1:12:58Not to get that far into the future, but you know how it is.

1:13:03I love it. I love it because I'm also just kind of understanding like within yourself like, okay, I need to put a pin in this right now because I need to give myself some time for creative time. Like that's important. It's so easy to say yes, right? It's it's hard to say no when you have like this a like awesome show that comes on the table and you're like, "Oh, I want to do it, but if I do, it's going to be this neverending cycle of output and then not enough creative time." Right? Mhm.

1:13:33That is absolutely correct. Um yeah. So this the saying no part is is important uh over time and being willing to say no to to deals that might sounds good but if once you do the math and like the body math and the energy output it's like

1:13:53I don't know that would be nice to do that but at what cost versus you know four days spent working on something else that might be worth more in the longer run is important. to

1:14:12So, yeah.

1:14:13Yeah. I think when you're first starting out, it's like, you know, you want to get your name out there as much as possible and you want to play as many shows and and it's awesome for those of us that enjoy live playing. Um, but yeah, there is like a certain seessaw where you're like, okay, there's, you know, a balance to be had, you know. So, and I think there's certain months that seem to be more active when it comes to touring. So, you see more people that are out there during certain months. So,

1:14:45Yeah. So, are there any um I don't know like you mentioned that you're you guys are thinking of like maybe a few more legs of the Divine Creatures Tour. Do you think that'll happen like maybe in the next year or

1:15:01probably I would assume so um in the upcoming year

1:15:07because I think we we both have a pretty booked up rest of the years and uh it'll it'll build help us just we continue to build momentum on our own and that will increase the um the interest in our future endeavors. So,

1:15:26it'll it'll be there.

1:15:28When we're ready, we'll we'll start discussing it. I think we

1:15:31just got to get through this kind of fall season and then uh maybe Kaylee and I will reconvene and um see where we go from from here.

1:15:42Yeah, we we've got our eyes on certain names of places and areas that we want

1:15:49hit. So, we have a

1:15:52a plan. [laughter]

1:15:54Yeah, we definitely about it.

1:15:57Well, that's exciting. I think um you know, for the regions that you haven't hit, um I I you know, as you guys mentioned, I got to see your show in LA and it was awesome. Um I loved like you know, everybody together. Um you know, I felt like it was such a great journey, like a great artistic musical journey. So it was awesome to get to experience it. So yes, if you haven't seen this um lineup, it is magical. So friends, definitely go and support. Um and I really I mean it's it's such great vibes, too. Like I feel like naturally you guys draw in like really great

1:16:39people around you. So um like I really enjoyed the crowd as well um at the

1:16:46Um yeah, everyone's awesome. We have a lot of great friends and we've made a lot of new ones. So, it's been really great. Um, again, the combo is um it's definitely We proved the concept.

1:17:03Yes. [laughter]

1:17:04Yeah, we did.

1:17:07Yeah. I think that's I mean it must be very gratifying because you know when you as an artist when you conceive of something um obviously not every time you're going to execute it you know like sometimes things just kind of fall a little flat. So it's awesome when you have an a vision of something um and you see it come to fruition and then you're like oh actually that was awesome. So

1:17:31Well I have no doubt that nothing we do together is going to ever fall flat.

1:17:39we both are we make sure that we don't

1:17:44I mean in in life just on our own and so uh again you find the people that you can work together with and go for that same goal and for at least for me I think for both of us um we want to see success for each other.

1:18:03Yeah. You know, I I love it. Like friends of mine that came to LA had never seen Nuda before and they're fans now. And that's success to me is if you can introduce your friends to someone and we even have a friend in Dallas who sent their friend in Seattle to us. And those are the things that are invaluable. Like we love that. So if you see us in another city that you're not in, but you have friends there, please send them our way. and have them come to us and say, "Hey, Tash sent us." or whatever because that that just makes the community even bigger. And and I I

1:18:42love that. It gives it gives everyone a a way to kind of grow and then become friends and we're always there for each other. So, I love it.

1:18:55Well, I think the live music community is possible because of community. like, you know, whether people bring you food or they um bring their friends or they even just come to the show or whatever it is, it's it is possible because of

1:19:11And sometimes it's a place to stay or a place to stash your gear or whatever it

1:19:17A per a friend that can bring you food when you don't have it. You know, if you're stuck at the venue because you loaded in and that's it, you're not leaving. Um those kinds of things really matter. And um and you know, for us, we we're kind of the same way. Like our our house is a a halfway house for bands, too. We've had so many people stay here. And um and you know, it just it's great when you can grow that because it just makes things better for for us on the road. And being on the road's tough. So any kind of help you can get is always

1:19:53And and that's that goes beyond just coming to the show,

1:20:03Curse. Food gifts are nice. Yes. Food gifts are nice.

1:20:06Nice. [laughter]

1:20:10And any more recordings, books, remixes, or videos coming out? Any recording? Well, I think Curse has a remix coming out, right?

1:20:19My next [snorts] single is September

1:20:24I was gonna say because uh that was a question in the chat.

1:20:31I might release another remix that's been sitting from someone [laughter]

1:20:38Yeah, I have remix too.

1:20:41that's [snorts] available and and a couple in the works, too. So, and I need to email you, Kay.

1:20:50I will though. I haven't forgotten about you. [laughter] Yeah,

1:20:55you got a couple things on your plate. All good.

1:20:57Just a couple. [laughter]

1:21:01But yes, um remixes are always fun to do. Um videos, I don't know. I I always have videos in the works.

1:21:10that are good.

1:21:11Uh I just put out a lyric book, but I have that on that'll be at the merch booth. I may put it online, but

1:21:19it looks good. It looks really nice. You're welcome.

1:21:22Thank you. It was fun. It's kind of my

1:21:25Uh in recordings, I don't know. I'm continuously recording.

1:21:30I think all of us are.

1:21:32There's always a continuous stream of music happening and stuff that you're like, "Oh, yes. This is going to be on the next album." I have a few of those. I did one just the other day and I'm

1:21:44"Yes." Oh, I love that. That's great.

1:21:46I know. It is fun.

1:21:48Yeah. I'm mostly in the process of remixing my whole record like just doing like club kind of remixes and things is kind of where it seems to be heading. So that's keep it's like writing new music to something that already exists.

1:22:06It's makes it easy because I don't have to write new lyrics but I can [laughter] kind of continue to work in the material that I'm really enjoying. So

1:22:14that's all good. Yeah, I love that it gives you sort of a new lens on something that you've created. I mean, it's like playing a song live where it gives you a new lens. You know, you play the song and you're like, "Wow, I I have not experience a song in this way and that's new." And

1:22:33yeah, it's actually kind of one of the impulses for the tracks I've been remixing first is because

1:22:41um in the live version or the studio versions have some live bass and live guitar. And so when it's just me up there, it kind of is odd in a way to sometimes to just have a guitar solo from the guy from the Black Angels come into to the middle of a song. So, but I want to play those songs live. So, it's kind of the remixing was an experiment in how to translate something that was like a little bit more postpunk sounding into more of a EBM track for live performance for this tour in particular with NightsB.

1:23:18Very cool.

1:23:21Yeah, that's awesome. I I always love when um you like you you like experience stylistic shifts like that. So, that'll be really cool. Definitely looking forward to hearing that.

1:23:35Oh, yes. We're going to be playing all of our hard bangers on this night tour.

1:23:40That's awesome. That's awesome.

1:23:42Do you have the set already planned? Are you kind of feeling it out right now?

1:23:50You know, I mean, I I have my set that I can play songs on the fly, so I don't know. I have I have ones in mind for

1:24:01Gonna play a lot of the new album. So That's exciting.

1:24:07People have seemed to respond to the new songs pretty well. So that's good.

1:24:13And they're nice and good feeling. Yes.

1:24:15Oh yeah.

1:24:17Banging strip club. That's what I always tell the song guy. [laughter]

1:24:22And I get it. Me and I get that. Boom. So anyway,

1:24:30the boom is necessary for sure.

1:24:36Are are you the one that creates the masks, Rona?

1:24:40Uh, as far as the ones I wear. Oh, yes. I paint them all.

1:24:44They're so beautiful. So, yeah, I was

1:24:46I said there's a couple of them there. There's one there. There's like there's like six of them over here. Here. Let me see. So, this is the one I'm currently using.

1:25:04I love it. I love it.

1:25:06Kind of um

1:25:07it's very Japanese inspired, but I have my all these different

1:25:12This one, too.

1:25:16This one is one of my faves.

1:25:22The first one reminds me of um Did you ever read David Max Kabuki series?

1:25:30It's awesome. He's he's an amazing um comic book artist and writer. So, it reminds me a little bit of that. Very

1:25:38Yeah. I I kind of wanted it to to have that kind of look and feel, but um yeah, that with the uh the cape I when I first put it on I was like, "Yeah, I'm like in the most frightening way." Kidding.

1:26:05Little do they know there's a tutu underneath. [laughter] I know. Exactly. Spoiler. Are you kidding? Poor Curse has to deal with me because I'll come out of our bedroom and I'm like, "What do you think of this?" [laughter] And he's

1:26:21"Oh, Brent, thank you so much for stopping by. It was great to see you in the chat."

1:26:27Yes, good to see you, Brent. If there are any more questions um for our wonderful friends, please feel free to drop them in the chat. And um thank you all for [clears throat] taking the time to hang out because this

1:26:45it's so cool to get to like it's like such a full circle, you know, with everybody here. And um and I love that we got to catch up like post tour. I I don't think I would have asked in the middle of tour because I feel like when you're in the zone like it's like it's a different kind of energy, right? Like I feel like you can offer more reflection like post tour. So

1:27:08yeah, I I appreciate you having us on because it's it's fun to see each other again and then just kind of talk about what we've been through.

1:27:19Yeah. I I just it's so cool because I've had I've had um like both Rona and Curse on Unwritten Rules before. Obviously, we know Nuda deeply from all of the Alice um tours. And so, it's so cool to like um hear everyone's perspective, especially um having built the tour together, gone through the tour together, and then having like you know like a future vision as well. It's like watching the creative process in real time, which is really, really cool.

1:27:54Yeah. So,

1:27:55you'll hear about this again.

1:27:57Um, uh, so Kevin is asking when is the next, um, oh, when is the next live stream? Um, so I'm actually going to be having, um, on September 13th, um, uh, Carl from Angel Spits, and he is, uh, he's collaborating with DJ Ashley Badge. he sang on his album. So, I'll be having the two of them on September 13th. So, yeah, it'd be awesome to see you there. Um, we're going to be doing that as a Sunday stream. So, yes. And then, um, the Sunday after that, we're going to be having, um, um, actually the label of COP International. Um, I got to watch this incredible, um, panel that he did

1:28:39with Metropolis Records, and he just had some incredible wisdom to offer. So, I think it's awesome because Yes.

1:28:47Yeah. He's great.

1:28:49Yeah. Just really looking forward to like hearing hearing the wisdom. I feel like it's incredible when you hear like different perspectives from all the different angles, you know. So, yeah. As producers, as people that have um you know, like yourselves like put together tours. Um, all three of you are producers. So, it's so cool that you have like,

1:29:12you know, deep roots and understanding like what goes beyond like behind like putting music together, you know.

1:29:20Awesome. [snorts] Thanks for uh h having this platform in this show. It's It's cool what you're doing by pulling all the various minds out there together because uh as many episodes that I've seen, I I I definitely learn something every time I watch I I learn I I learn a new unwritten law. unwritten rule, unwritten rule, I should

1:29:49Yeah. [laughter]

1:29:50Of the

1:29:51It means a lot. It means a lot. Yeah. It's It's such a joy. I've So, I'm a really big like Avengers fan. I love the Avengers. And the reason why is because I'm like all these like crazy amazing superheroes, you know, and you get to see them in their element [clears throat] and being amazing in what they do. And that's how I feel about all of you. Like I'm like these superheroes that come together and they share their inspiration and their wisdom and it's just such a beautiful community. And I'm I am so grateful for y'all. Like truly, thank you for

1:30:23We're grateful for you.

1:30:24A I feel like we're in the pool of love.

1:30:27A Yes.

1:30:29Yes. [laughter] But it's amazing. I mean truly like you you show other people that it is possible. Like it is absolutely possible to create art um to you know be able to tour to put yourself out there. Um, and it's really inspiring um to see that and a reminder, you know, like it's like, okay, like, okay, if you're just getting started, just know we all got started at some point, so just get out there, you

1:30:59Go do it.

1:31:00Do the thing. Yes.

1:31:01Do the thing.

1:31:02You only learn from doing and mistakes and the things that you don't like.

1:31:07It's so true. That's like a core wisdom I think in um your book curse like you did talk about like kind of like overcoming the fear of failure like just kind of working through that and creating through that. So yeah that's a curse wisdom.

1:31:25All right. Excellent.

1:31:27If you're doing if you're doing it you're doing it then [laughter] like Well, dear friends, um uh we are um coming to a close, but um uh all of these wonderful artists have multiple platforms that you can follow um and support, and they're all playing live um soon. So, if you have a chance, please go and support them. Experience the magic, experience the inspiration. Um and thank y'all so much for supporting Unwritten Rules of the Road. Um, sending a lot of love.

1:32:03Thanks, Tash.