Steven Seibold, in full

1:54hi friends uh this is TSH uh we are Unwritten rules of the road today I have um a wonderful special guest uh Steph seabold uh my dear friends hi hi it is so I feel like we've been cheating a little because it's nice to catch up with you at all I know I know so we'll have to catch everyone up yes yes thank you so much friends for for tuning in and and hanging out with us this Sunday um it's so great to see everyone um so um Stephen C Balden and I we go way back to mko Days um you were the person that mixed our very first

2:39album uh metamorph I did you did and um I I met you through John who had been auditioning for megley chin um I love the I love the full circle that that happens like we're we're such a small community here right um and we used to have like just the most interesting chats like when we first met too like when um you were in your studio in Orange County I believe yeah that that was in Fullerton I think over kind of yeah yeah yeah and I just remember I having like really interesting conversations about music and um you know the path I guess touring I mean we

3:20um let let's go because this I told told you a minute ago that I I remember a couple of our conversations really early because you and John were so hungry to get on the road you were just I feel like that was 90 the music was um I think at that time we all decided it was going to be like a flag pole as to where you were at that time but you were eager to get out on the road and tour just of put your music out there and uh we he we talked about food because I think we all knew that one expense that was um gonna cause us the

4:07most grief besides gasoline was going to be accommodations where you're gonna sleep and what you're gonna eat y do you remember those conversations and we oh I do yeah we talked about um willingness to sleep on a bench seat of a van because I did it I know you guys did it oh yeah and then I think you told you were telling me how you had you guys were making your own food on the road and I was so I was think I was kind of envious that I didn't think about doing that but um you guys hustled and and you just said this a minute ago you

4:51took every show you could to be seen yeah it was it was the P honestly the pure love of playing like you know there's a certain electricity that happens when you get to you know interact with people in that way and to express in that way um and yeah I mean we we played House Parties we I mean we still we still kind of do there's a lot of things we haven't really outgrown but um do you think um do you think you would knowing what you know now because I mean you um many rivers have flown under your Bridge since would that like if if you and I

5:34and Scott any of us that have done this would we still give artists that advice that if you if you enjoy performing or even the idea that you could be a performer would be to um risk it all or compromise it all and just get out there and perform it would you give young artists that same advice I think it would be dependent on the artist um because some people really don't find a lot of joy in playing live like I I I'm sure you have friends like this as well but I have friends that they they love being in this studio um so I would not give them that advice but

6:15I think for people that genuinely do enjoy it I would still give the same advice um I would still say that um like discovering um like a whole world a whole different culture as you go from City to city um like meeting people in person and interfacing with people in person there really is just nothing like it um I mean sure you can meet a lot of people online and that's amazing but I feel like there's just something about the live physical interaction um and I feel like I discovered um a lot about who I was as a person as an artist I still do forever work in progress like

6:53I've told you but um I feel like there's always something that I learn and discover with every tour that we've done so I don't know how about you like what would I would say that I I'm G to have to agree with everything you said there is that some of the bonds you make in real life whether it's um going out for coffee after the show or gosh sometimes just hanging out a venue and these days taking selfies and having like real life conversation those bonds feel like forever bonds and and I'm not dissing um the social media connections or because those are real too I definitely have I have many

7:38social media friends that I'm dying to meet you know what I mean that that's real too but but uh yeah getting out there and learning who you are as an artist and what you're oh man this just sounds so it's like the old man thing to say but you find out what you're made of and I I I don't mean that in in like a tough sense I mean that in a quiet sense too long drives and insurmountable number of obstacles and people who love you and won't shut up and people who love you and won't say a word you find out how to navigate yourself in the

8:24in in amongst your bandmates your who are often your closest people people and then also strangers it's it's good to know yourself in that way how you deal with um being an artist out there in the world yeah absolutely I I mean I feel like there's a certain presence you you asked me a question earlier before we started the stream about like if I felt like California was my home or La was my home and I told you that I feel like wherever I am is my home um and I I feel like that comes from a lot of touring I feel like I've Liv lived this nomadic

9:03life um and so I feel like you know that it's like it comes with sort of the sense that where you are is home like in that very presence you know it's a very uh present philosophy health I mean healthy is subjective right but I think that U it makes you being the kind of artist that you are who mean you just told me that you tour you did three tours last year yeah it makes you um really flexible and fluid in those situations because you know you can step you could step into your persona as a singer with your microphone or you could step out

9:46the back door the venue in an alley that smells like puke and beer and still find Center that's really important I mean uh not just for you and I anybody so if you're if you're an artist man it's just good it's it's good to go through theem motions you learn you learn it and um I I it seems like I know more and more artists now that only have an online presence they've I know a ton of artists that have never even performed yeah and that seems um it's hard for me to comprehend sometimes especially the artist that I like I really I really dig I study their production I

10:32communicate with them a bunch and yeah they've never set foot on a stage and when I hear the music I have the same reaction I've always had about music that I like where um I'm really into it and I picture them on a stage rocking out but they've never done it so it's kind of it's so it's a strange time for uh music and tour especially touring it be oh my gosh it got so expensive how have you got okay yeah now I want to ask about don't let me take over okay no no please take over you have six people you have six people in your band yeah before

11:17before I ask this question I'm gonna tell you what the biggest pain in the ass was for me in hate department and I told you this when we met all like 20 years ago I struggled with P I'm going to call them Personnel not to be demeaning but my Personnel were my friends there are people that I loved or I met and I thought they were cool and we both liked skinny puppy I would say come be in my band even if they couldn't play I would just be let's hang out I'll make sure you can eat on the road I won't put you in danger it'll be fun we'll meet people

11:53we'll see the country be my band and it was so hard it was hard to feed them and it was hard um give them Comfort when they were missing their girlfriends it was hard to even if I could cover their rent it was hard to give them peace thinking that they were going to return to not having a job or like like the hardest part of managing my four or people I'm going to say it caused me a lot of grief in the ear first two let's say the first six years of hate Department how in the hell do you manage six people it's not easy it's not easy it's

12:40not and and we're not we don't have the original lineup that we started out with no I did I can tell that from photo yeah yeah we lost a few members last year and do you manage do you manage yourselves I assumed because I know you enough to know that you probably surround yourself with people that are self empowering and self-regulating and grounded enough to be past those of yeah I mean I think that it's sort of like I think that inevitably as as humans we sort of gravitate towards people that that are Kindred Spirits you know I think we all do it's it's our

13:22nature to disg gravitate towards kindred spirits and the people that have remained and continued doing it it's it's it's truly for the love you know it is truly For the Love of what we do um it's something that we are very passionate about it's something that we believe in um it's something that we've collectively created together um and so like the people that have um and even the new people that have come in um into think that part do you think that part is really important their uh investment in the art form is keeps them devoted and comfortable comfortable you have to stop there yeah

14:03yeah no I I think that's definitely a really huge huge part of it um it's also that we're family um it really feels like a family um you know it's like even when we're not on the road like we're you have that you have that aura like know I was I kind of became a little addicted to your live stream stream during the covid thing yeah because it was some of the like best looking and sounding stuff happening and uh and also it kind of gave uh I know I can guarantee you Scott went through this but did you go through this thing where did you wonder if twitch and

14:47streaming was going to be the new reality did you wonder like was it going to stay this way um I mean I felt like it was temporary I did feel like it was temporary but I knew that we were entering into a new chapter um and it's interesting because I feel like from the pandemic streams like what we're doing right now is a branch of that like you know interacting with people virtually I feel like it's definitely a natural progression um I I I see a lot of artists that have have gone into that progression like you were saying earlier like I think that there's a lot of

15:24people um that don't perform live now like they just it's like they're Persona is on the social media their expression is on the social Medi uh the the different streaming platforms and I think that's really interesting um I think that is definitely a natural progression um where we're going in in terms of Technology um you know so um but yeah I mean I was thinking about the pandemic streams because we had you on them and um you know and I thought it was amazing because i' I've seen you in different forms like I've seen you in you know live with hate department and then seeing you um alone you've known

16:01you've known me through like a lot of the Incarnation yeah yeah and so yeah your your your streams I felt maybe maybe I was just subject to being a little more fearful of what the pandemic because you know the pandemic kind of it sunk two projects that I was really into because that I could not recover from those two years of I I would have loved to have seen mute do more I was I loved um really really loved Standalone and it was like part of an extension of me uh putting like my life artistically on pause for two years was rough but um not just for me it was

16:47for every single one of us but uh your live streams were so good and felt so um I mean it was like better than being at a show multiple angles and the you know what I mean it was it was things that you don't get to appreciate unless you're right in front of the stage uh and so I thought I think it was part of how good your content was I thought is this how it's gonna be now are our our band's just gonna stream um May maybe because I knew how much damage was being done by you saw it venues shut down artists moved away from cities a

17:32lot of [ __ ] happened because of the pandemic so yeah uh oh gosh now now I feel like um I I'm feeling like these little waves of guilt because I haven't really uh dove in back Dove Dove back into the hate Department Paradigm I I realize that I should be on fire right now with hate Department it was hate Department was my uh voice of telling people to believe in themselves govern themselves um challenge everything especially Authority and um BEC I think because of social media and my relationships post let's say Facebook not Myspace it didn't feel Myspace didn't feel quite as volatile but um every day we're

18:27surrounded by that of volatility social volatility I don't want to I don't want to be on the dog pile and I think I think that happened more more during the pandemic than because I just saw how divisive everything became socially especially on social media I didn't want to be a voice in it and I still I still feel that way and I feel guilty for not because I uh it feels like a c out this is this is the time I should be out there raging I should be doing the release it thing in various forms but um I'm more comfortable staying out of volatility I think the beauty of of like

19:17we were talking about setting your flag poles is that the music that you've released um the art that you've released is out there and it's for all time like it doesn't doesn't matter if it's then or now it's still like something that can be very relevant to know you know totally agree um uh this isn't a brag or a a flex but I still uh hate Department Records and the recordings that I have released still connect and resonate with people and I still sell it it's it it surprises me that people every week they buy it and they send me messages every it happens constantly and

20:04um and I still do feel I feel proud of it yeah and I and I feel um for lack of better words blessed that I I've had a run at it but um I still don't know I think about it every day I don't think I have it in me to um be more of that hate Department character I'm I'm I'm very actively working on new music but I have I'm trying to um I'm trying to navigate not being combative and not challenging ideals I I did it I really did it I did it hard for a long time yeah well I think that I

20:59as I've known you as as a friend and artist I feel like you've always challenged yourself um like you talk about like you know hate Department being like a you know a challenging voice but I feel like you've always challenged yourself like you've always pushed your own envelope so it would make sense to me that your expression is going to evolve instead of going back to a formula that you might think like okay maybe this is what I need to do um you're challenging yourself to be like actually what is the voice actually wanting to say right now in the very present moment that's a good point yeah

21:33that's a good point um yeah I um I I like um I'm just I'm a huge are you like you a huge fan of music do you like every genre I know you do because you play in like you you've played every conceivable genre of music so you're a huge fan of it you must be oh absolutely I mean I I Feel Like You Know music is a medium and it really doesn't matter the genre like it's an expression there's so much human emotion that you know you can absolutely encapsulate in so many different ways um but why limit yourself right there's so many colors to choose

22:16from yeah yeah like I'm I'm actually working on a an ambient um instrumental project um I just wanted it I listen to a lot of like ambient you instrumental stuff in my downtime um helps it helps me and I was like that'd be really cool to make so I it's so different than stuff I've made before but I I'm like why not I I went through a huge ambient phase like many years ago and now I'm finding I guess what do you call I'm sorry the my I'm my phone blows up I just didn't turn it down so I'm just gonna turn it down um the

22:53um like what do you call this new kind of stuff that's ambient but it also has like really subtle modern electronic beats to it so it's almost like dreamy but it's still really ambient more ambient than rhythmic and I listen to a ton of that stuff too and if it doesn't have vocals I find that um it's better for my brain when I'm actually working if I'm working on motorcycles or if I'm working with Michelle on the businesses I don't I don't have to start singing along which I appreciate sometimes um yes so yeah back to the back to the fan of music thing I

23:32um I love to challenge myself as actual like a musician more so than um more so than being successful in a style that I think I can emulate or I can compete in uh I like getting better as a player that's and and doing things I couldn't do last year I'm always going to be that guy so uh yeah I'm gonna um I'm just going to keep writing and and I I'm going to release more music it's just probably not going to be a department have you had an idea of like what's on the horizon in terms of oh yeah what's brewing yeah anything you care to share I don't think I could

24:19I don't think I'm gonna get away from being able to um see myself as a performer like um if I told you that I'm working on um a variation of hip-hop um with an anonymous uh key figure like leader um I I still see myself as a performer if I if I end up releasing music like like a like a hip-hop record under a name that that I never even divulge that I'm behind I'm still GNA want to perform I I don't know that I would ever not be able to see myself as performer I I still go to shows like I'm I'm a I'm not a kid and I love going to

25:09shows and get getting tossled around in the pit and all that stuff I love it I still um live live music and that stuff we were talking about before that expression by artists that are on stage delivering the art form that's that's my favorite thing favorite favorite thing any genre I love it so uh actually we're uh getting some questions uh first question is what was the craziest show you ever played speaking of Performing yeah yeah uh I'm gonna I could I can give you three or four but I'm gonna give you a really good one that uh that that kind of encapsulates a bunch of

25:58what so I got I was in pig face for a while right I did U I think I joined in 2001 hate Department toured with ogre for his welt tour and I met I saw Martin again at the end of that tour and he said I thought he was joking with me he said come join pig face and I was like oh cool high five or whatever but he actually called me when I got back to California and said come be in so I joined pig face as a singer front guy SL and one show with pig face so when you're touring you everything Tash and I

26:39talked about is like you become a family even with people you don't particularly like you just get close and protective and nurturing and you still fight but uh pig face is a really big band might be let's say that there was 10 members at that time backing singers two drummers Charles was the only bass player two guitarists three singers big band and we played a show at an airst strip in El Paso Outdoors so it it uh it's very Mad Max because the the wind was blowing and there was dirt everywhere and it was big big crowd very chaotic and Martin made makes the most

27:29amazing backdrops for pig face silks hand screens them with his uh Inns at at that time was it invisible or Underground Ink and they're massive they're like 40 or 50 feet tall and we he would hang them from uh the the uh scaffolding behind the stage it's kind of a pig face thing you know like the the hand screen well at the end of the set like we're playing we were all on stage playing someone was trying to steal one because since it was an outdoor show I want to say yeah there was chain link fence that was behind the stage and someone had climbed the chain

28:13link fence and they were trying to pull the this 50 60 foot um piece uh can you imagine the war that broke broke out everybody stopped playing all of us stopped playing while this person was trying and we all chased him we we let ran through the stopped the show instantly and ran through the crowd and then there was this melee it was almost like um it it was like a TV show there must have been a hundred people chasing this guy running away with the piece of backdrop as he was running through the desert it was absolutely insane we caught him he he probably got punched up

28:58a little bit but he you know was nothing too crazy but he was trying to steal a piece of backdrop and Martin was the leader he was like he was the boss so I think he was the first one to throw a sticks down and run off he ran off the stage and we all went after him and yeah that was that was nuts I have a lot of of things you know this too if you two are a lot crazy [ __ ] happens you see you see cars on fire you see horrible accidents you um you see people on the crowd doing things that are wildly inappropriate and

29:30you have to stop so shows shows are uh shows are like a perfect environment for things to go crazy absolutely that was a good one for pig face pig face has a lot of them just because it's the nature of that style that many people and um encourages insanity and it occurs so uh another question uh thank you Micah for your question um is do you work in a series or does each piece Alone um and who are your biggest influences um I'll answer them in Reverse um we just lost one of my biggest influence we just lost would have been Jordy Walker from Killing Joke

30:25um when I was when I was still in school I you know like high school I uh bands that I really liked I was a big Durand Duran guy and uh but as the Duran Duran thing faded away I fell in love with pill and killing joke around in the 80s let's just say and I loved jordy's guitar sound and I was a guitarist I mean of course I loved synthesizers but I was always quietly trying to figure out what he would what he did on his records and loved Killing Joke I loved the the content of the of the the lyrical content and um Jordy died last

31:08year of a stroke so he was probably my biggest like as a musician he was probably my biggest um influence as a uh weirdly I I don't think I've ever said it Martin too I was a drummer when I first discovered pill so yeah so uh gosh I forget I can't I'm drawing a blank on the name of the record um but it had bang the door on it and the T the word Rose is in the title but the pill record that Martin and John Leiden did God the drumming was just epic and so tribal and also linear it was where they weren't really songs they were just

31:54jams God I was I wanted to be that so yeah Martin was a big as a drummer a big influence on Me Maybe not so much as I as the years went on I wanted to write I wanted to be a better song writer song Smith and so as much as I love pill um I loved it for a different thing I loved it for an ethos and an aesthetic but I wanted to be I wanted to be a better songwriter I I rediscovered people like Howard Jones I was like man Howard Jones wrote some great songs or or um any artist that captured a massive

32:35fan base I became a better songwriter because I stopped adoring pill and actually just got to be a better interesting and then okay what what was the first one so oh do I work in a series or uh does each piece stand alone kind of I'm kind of like for lack of better I'm kind of [ __ ] in a way like I'm just me I I um I can't seem to I can't seem to get away from trying to tell a sad story that's beautiful or aggressively telling PE someone whoever is listening to the song it's hard for me to imagine that I'm speaking to a big crowd but every song

33:31in every project if it's not a sad song pretty I'm trying to tell someone to live by their own principles not care so much about what the person standing next to them thinks or or um what the rules of the environment are I'm I'm always trying to I'm trying to encourage people to be more independent I know that's not like a it's it's not really a healthy and socially it's not really my my aggressive individualism is it's not um current thing but I can't escape it I I I wish I could because it it has done me harm socially but that's who I am so

34:25piece kind of is it own thing yeah it's not the series is that's my problem I can't get away from the series I uh I'm gonna find a new way to say be yourself and do it and do it and do it with 100% because if you consider anything else if you if you consider 10% of someone else you're compromising what you're capable of and also I don't I don't like the idea that someone else can tell us what to think I'm I'm did very poorly in school not because I wasn't paying attention it's because my authority problem got in the way and that's still I'm that

35:11person can't help it if it's not a sad pretty story it's do this yourself without looking outside the yeah yeah I think that's actually like um a that you've had this strength to be able to I mean is it has it been has that come naturally to you or has this just always been the way you are it's always been the way I am like I said got in the way it got in the way of um anything you know jobs uh school um I uh I'm a I'm I'm a challenge authority person all the way to my core and and um it's not in in a way it's it's uh it's I've

36:03managed to balance it and survive but um it's just it's just who I am yeah it's just yeah how where I landed and as as far back as I could remember it's who I was well um go ahead I'm sorry it's strange that I think back about really early hate Department that combative person I I've said this before for um that really combative character was just my insecurity I I um we've we played at this little coffee shop in San Diego was a first hate Department Show and I was so so nervous I mean I was just like was riddled with anxiety about being in front of people

36:48so I just started making fun of them like loud and aggressively and it eased my it it eased my own insecurity as a singer and as a front person and people loved it so much and it was so polarizing I just kept doing it I I learned um I got better and better at it and also I didn't want to be even though we did start a lot of fights I didn't want to be known to be for being um like cruel I just wanted to be funny and aggressive and um and as things grew maybe like let's say at the very beginning of the peak of hate

37:32Department's perceived success like uh in the in the late 90s there I learned that that stage presence didn't translate to really big crowds it worked to a 100 people really well because I could rile a 100 people up but um when I got on the ra radio we trans we we got one played a couple of like radio festivals it was so eye openening to jump up in front of a thousand people and think that I could insult a thousand people and rile them up it just was had the opposite effect I could feel people's eyes rolling when I was hostile you know I people like ah

38:13who does this guy think he is what a boar I could feel it on stage so I had to learn I had to learn after you know 10 or 15 years of being really belligerent as an artist to to try to turn it back on myself be self-deprecating and uh and and maybe more humorous about my insults than just blanket mean it was interesting I remember some of those well well um that so here there's a question actually that's asking about how your journey as a musical artist began was it with hate department or did you have a project before then um I've I've been playing I've been

39:06playing since I was in high school like when uh I was a drummer and um it it's kind of funny how I became a drummer I my my dad was a guitarist so I played but not very well and I showed a friend of mine uh everything I knew during the school year on guitar and we separated ated during summer and when he came back after summer break he blew me out of the water as a guitarist and so I was like oh [ __ ] now what so I bought a drum set from him and I became the drummer in the band and I learned pretty quickly and I

39:40liked being a drummer so even in high school I played for a a a local woman who had a band and she was actually performing in bars and I was a teenager I was like 15 but I I learned well enough and I played well enough people I I then I liked steuart copel I was a police fan so I liked Stuart Copeland as a drummer um I'm always gonna be a Beatles fan so I loved Ringo Star um Paul McCartney's drummer Joe was I'm a drummer I'm always gonna be a drummer I uh I died when I was able to hire Josh free Josh freeze is kind of a friend of

40:24mine and I was able to get him to play some hate Department stuff and that was like a dream come true you know it's like and I always pulled Dr John siren became into the van because he was a drummer I I like drummers um I love Martin I so um that I was a drummer in high school for other bands I I got more and more into punk I could play fast and hard and I had good stamina so but it wasn't until I got hired right out of high school I wasn't even 18 and I got hired at a music store as midi was evolving so

41:03I was really in the right place at the right time as the synthesizer thing was happening and just because of my personality I'm a really big introvert and um some people would say control freak I'll just say I'm kind of a control freak I realized music could be created by just me with a bunch of uh synths and midi cables wouldn't have to deal with band members that's how it happened is I just kind of was in the right place at the right time I was a very bad salesman for the music store but I was I was strong um with technical knowledge and and um I

41:46loved the synthesizer thing so that's kind of how it started but I had a band I created a band called Cupid falling before hate department and that was literally a um Craigslist thing I demoed probably 10 songs I put an ad on Craigslist I found some talking about those artists that I lik I mentioned Killing Joke I mentioned Duran Duran I mentioned uh d uh depes mode probably great song incredible songwriter um and yeah I found people I found people that are my friend like my closest friends to this day uh and a cupid falling got out there and performed a lot this is a good story

42:42I I was performing with Cupid falling we we were we did well like on the throughout Orange County in La um but it was not the songs were still just kind of okay it was much more of a gimmick thing I wore a gas mask a few times and I entered Cupid falling into a battle of the bands in Anaheim that was going to be um moderated by Capital Records and people so I thought this is gonna be my big chance to put Cupid falling in front of um real an anr people at Capital and at the time skinny puppy was on Capital so I thought oh it's so easy because I'm

43:30just gonna be I'm gonna be dark and I'm gonna have a fog machine I'm gonna wear gas mask and they'll get it the opposite happened after we played every every band that was on this battle of the band bands uh bill got to speak with the anr people at the end and when I went over there and sat with them the woman anr person she she was super Prett I remember that so she intimidated me but the first thing she said was like what was that and that confused me it was kind of a heart heartbreak but also uh it was Illuminating you know it's Illuminating that you can take your

44:16art form all the way to the top in your own mind and it can just be utterly confusing to others so that was a good I wish I could remember that I can't remember the name the name of the venue but yeah Orange County used to be have lots of venues so yeah yeah no that is it is it is interesting how things translate so differently in your head oh my gosh right yeah and what you're capable of doing you know you can conceive of this Grand stage show with lights and getting it delivering it different it is is yeah absolutely yeah I don't know I

45:03think it's it's interesting because I feel like you know you you it's like we have these Visions right of like what we would like things to feel like or or you know um and everybody's so unique I mean that's the beauty of Being Human right we're all so different and so unique so so you do the thing you do the thing where you see in your imagination you see Tash on stage with her group and how you do the same thing I do which is like you perceive how you hope others will perceive it like your imagination is through other people's eyes and it's never that way even when it comes down

45:46to your songs I try not to tell people my songs are about anymore because I want to know what they think they're about it's often it's way more interesting than what I'm going for just oh yeah let them let let people let their Crea Creative Energy rule their lives I don't need to guide anyone I'm too busy guiding myself it's interesting yeah that's definitely some wisdom for sure I think that it's I mean uh Clint was on last week and said something similar that great great I I missed the first six minutes I went back and watched it it's yeah he said something where it was very

46:29similar that um you know um it's like he likes to hear other people's interpretations I think that's it's part of the creative domino effect right it's like it encourages other people to have their own you know creativity when it comes to like how am I going to actually like feel this and what is this going to like elicit in me right totally you don't need to hold their hand they they have their you know what he said that I really love and I've thought about it a whole bunch since is that it was his own way of saying we're allowed to evolve as artists you know

47:07where he listens to his old earlier and accepts that that is where he was then and and it's and it can that early stuff can appeal to people who are in that time and um I felt like he was giving a hug because uh you know I struggle with that like I don't I sometimes I look back on my first record and I'm listening to the high hat patterns and I'm going like dude what were you thinking I really yeah yeah I Rel oh yeah it's he he he manages his um Evolution well and I uh it was comforting yes yes absolutely um oh so we have some some questions

48:00from Angie um uh first question actually uh is is for me um so going from mko to Alice um is it considered a creative evolution or another facet of the same Journey um I love both Ventures and feel parallels between the two um thank you really appreciate that you've been coming along the journey um I I feel like um uh it's gosh it's like so Alice came from a yearlong tour that mko was in the middle of and I was playing around with this super Progressive piano pattern that I didn't it didn't belong in mko and I was like I don't to do with this um and we came off

48:44the road with just like kind of a lot of ideas that didn't fit in mko um and so did was so was were was Alice formulated by everyone involved with mankind except for John except for John so John doesn't like to jam um you know and so but that's what like kind of Gordon me and Scott are more people that we love to jam um John has always been somebody who likes to create in the studio which I love and respect like there's there's different pros and cons to both for sure um and so I think in this like we we we did a lot of stuff just playing life

49:24actually most allice songs it comes from us just playing live together yeah and jamming it out you know jamming yeah yeah yeah just jamming so um yeah I mean I feel like it's just it's an extension um we we we call it all part of the Alice project where we all kind of borrow each other you know there's there's a lot of shared members um in the pool um but I do feel like it's been a natural progression um so I feel like it's it tells like a story um in a way like there's a I mean I'm sure that you probably relate to this in the sense

49:55that like each thing that you've done is connected to the other thing right oh sure sure yeah yeah like like I said about my personality I can't get away from it I can call it a new name I can I can choose different topics I'm gonna be in a different place in my life kind of like Clint said but they're all connected so you would say like so you would say that Alice is a very much an extension of mankind is OB is obsolute yeah I feel like it's like it's the it's the progression of like you know a certain branch and a tendril um it was

50:31interesting uh we've had some backtack mko andala shows um and it's so interesting when we play it back toback for us just as the musicians where we're like wow I feel the difference I really feel the difference but there's a thread there's definitely a thread that's interesting yeah yeah so um and the other question that Angie had is if there's going to be a collaboration between Ellis and Steph seabold well that could I mean you that all that has to do is fit into our lives it's not like we could do that any time yeah let's just both say yes absolutely always say yes yeah I think and for me anytime that

51:13I get to create with my friends I'm like yes yes just count me in same same yeah I do wish so gosh I don't remember I love to jam I as like for somebody who really is is inverted as I am and love I love the control that I have in the studio with my toys um there's nothing better than H either having my voice or an instrument and being around three or four or five people and we're just trying to build something even if there's no um real Str I just I love that part yeah oh yeah yeah me too and it's I mean I'm the same

52:04I'm a very introverted person and I I come from a very classical background so you know before I delved into the world of rock music it was like everything was pre-written pre-composed I'm playing the thing on the page so jamming was very new to me and but I like it's so inspiring like when you're in the room and you're hearing and feeling the vibrations and other people's inspiration like in the moment it's like a live show right where you're like yeah yeah Absolut yeah and you you find that presence is contributing even if you're not playing I noticed that as a guitarist that a lot of times less as a

52:43drummer but uh as a guitarist sometimes stop playing and just see what's happening and just being there and your presence in the room is a contribution to where it's going it's it's it weird like music's has strange energy for sure yeah yeah for sure like I um when I'm jamming um as a singer um or a Lyricist you know sometimes for me it's just being quiet like you were saying I'm just quiet I'm taking it in you know yeah in a way you're waiting you're waiting for a window for it to so are you do you are the are these things synonymous for you do you are you

53:25working on stuff currently or does that happen when it happens it happens when it happens you know um we've been offered different shows um and you know when it feels right and and everybody's in in in able to do it you know we're like yeah you know it's a joy it's an absolute Joy um you know so it's just one of those it's sort of had its own flow you know yeah I mean yeah let's talk since you have been offered there shows I want to let's talk about festivals for a minute because you told me when we're just blabbing that you had booked tours

54:06around your Festival dates and I why do you like festivals um so um you know festivals are actually pretty intense um like um so first of all you have to show up really early um so there's that aspect as you know yeah and and um so as opposed to like a normal show like you you can show up kind of in the evening or like early afternoon or whatever it is but the festival a lot of times you show up in the morning um when we played dark force Fest um we had literally played in Ohio the night before so we played the show we drove all night we

54:48showed up at dark force Fest at 10 in the morning to do our load in and sound check the bands that were on stage were running late so we didn't even get a sound check and then um you know I had not eaten for like 24 hours I don't like to eat right before I sing so I'm like we're all just like wired on coffee so physically it's it's really really challenging but the the joy of it is that I think the people who put on the festivals and who come to the festivals like really love music and they love art and they love the

55:24community and I love that part it's like getting to be around people that truly love it I love it I love getting to see all the bands myself it's like a reunion like I love seeing people I haven't seen in a while that's the part I love because I can't stand festivals but I love that part specifically is you're around your friends like you're every every and then you get to meet people that you're only like Loosely acquainted with and and also the production is always pretty phenomenal you know like everyone's sharing the grapes and everyone's courteous of one others load in you know I I really like that family

56:05aspect of festivals oh absolutely and and I think too it's like you know and it's people from all over literally all over the world um with certain festivals you know some festivals it's more Regional but you know but things like that phenomenally successful cold waves and dark dark for yeah that dark force is Fest that draws from everywhere so I get it yeah I have to interject this I think I'm done with festivals I just don't know if I can do them anymore I um and it's not like a a fatigue or a tolerance thing is I think it's that I feel like the that genre that hate Department it

56:51has been in all these this kind of Po industrial electronic thing is the the artists come together and a lot of times it's a lot of artists 10 20 artists they don't ever really get to be themselves because they're in a a vacuum of a production that is the festival almost like the festival itself is the machine and the bands are restricted to a backdrop gear time constraints it's this thing I and it doesn't piss me off I just don't want to do it that way anymore I um I just jokingly said to a couple people that I've been like reacquainted with I was like don't you

57:43miss playing in people's backyards or their garages you said you guys do it you still do parties I I came up doing like little ghetto shows like that I loved it because yeah just I got to be me and it I can't tell you how many times someone ripped the mic out of my hand and just start screaming into it I miss kind of that um real unpredictable chaos and and um for a festival to work it has to be controlled and that I am I'm probably gonna continue going to festivals but I don't think I'm going to be putting myself in the yes column on festivals

58:25anymore I've played so I've played I've played as many as I need to play and I love them and my gosh the so the last time I saw you in real life no that was in Chicago but remember you and John played with Clint in Seattle yep at the mechanismus festival me yeah that's an amazing Festival an amazing Festival yeah that guy that runs it what a sweetheart ol OE yeah just the whole thing and and then there I mean I get to see you I get to see John I get to see yeah I mean I hung out with Claus again I I you get to see all these people that

59:04you just don't get to see in real life very often so festivals my favorite part is seeing the people but yeah but being in that oh God Stephen Archer played guitar with me then yes I remember that it was so good y'all were amazing the Hang is what yeah um so yeah gosh their band eego likeness killed it just so good and so everything is just like I wish I could do festivals and not have to put hate department on the pill you know what I mean yeah I need turn myself into more of like a guy just people just want to hang out with well you're already that

59:50so yeah no I think I mean I mean I agree it's a very different vibe playing a festival um and there's a lot more involved there's a lot more like Logistics and production and many things that can go wrong yeah there's that flying by the seat of your pants at a festival because you probably even though missing a soundcheck usually isn't a big deal it can be catastrophic yeah at a festival so yeah absolutely and I think as well um just sort of like well again it's sort of like you're kind of um like going so quickly from band to band there's a lot less control over

1:00:32your sound so like how you might want to sound um you know you have to kind of just sort of let go and just be like you know exactly what I'm saying that your sound your look your energy I mean it's a yeah I'm I'm I'm in the no column now I think for us um you know we've we've never been on a label everything's been DIY from the get-go um and um like it's only until recently that we started getting asked to do festivals um you know and it was such a thrill for us because we were like oh my gosh like it's not that we didn't try it's just

1:01:12that we were we were checked in the no column so we were like can we please play festival and they were like no I I remember I remember that time where I I was feeling like Alice kind of had a r d i was I remember you guys went from seeming DIY to seeing control maybe maybe this was four years ago I and I remember I remember thinking to myself they're gonna do it they're going to be able to stay in control of their content I mean there's a lot of arguments that could be said about being on labels versus not being on labels well we can

1:01:55talk about that for a minute but yeah doing what you do and being um in control 100% control both uh um creatively and what's the other part let's say economically there's you have to get over a hump and you guys got over that hump there's no surprised that festivals couldn't they wouldn't ignore you because you you had become putting people in the room on your own by your own devices and that's that's what artists need to do they need to put people in the room to get noticed I remember when you were getting noticed because it was like you couldn't look away so I remember that

1:02:40it's hard you I don't have to tell you it's hard to get there it's hard to yeah I mean it's I feel like you know I I say this all the time we're we're forever work in progress um and I I love the wisdom that you shared about not really like hinging yourself too much on what other people think um because it's just like you have no control over whether or not a person will like what you do or resonate with what you do um I I was talking about this with Clint going back to that conversation where it's a gift when people resonate with what you put

1:03:15out there um lucky when yeah it's amazing it's really amazing um but at the same time it's just like I think you know as an artist really the only thing that you have autonomy over is like what it was that I'm going to create what is it I'm going to work on you know what do I want to grow you know yeah yeah I I feel like um you know it was we learned a lot and grew a lot from doing the pandemic streams um it was just sort of like it gave us a chance um instead of actually like going on tour like we were

1:03:52really like thinking about like okay like what is it that you know like that we really want to um create visually sonically song Right songwriting wise like you know and I feel like I mean going back to like the craft of songwriting I think that's a huge part of it is like really like I I think like with music it just it really does go back to the song like Beyond how you s you know I think so too yeah really sorry my cat's talking to me um so uh if you I I try not I man I I I I try not to get too hung up on this because it's

1:04:36like such an old idea but if you can step up to a piano or pick up a guitar or ukulele if you could if you can pick up any instrument and accompany yourself and make and make your song um Translate it's an amazing song it doesn't even matter what in instrument or genre or anything and and it it rarely matters the the quality of your voice because I like some pretty [ __ ] singers I really like them yeah yeah because they what they do their songs really translate they their messaging is really good and sincere I mean God sincerity sincerity is a huge part of songwriting um you can

1:05:26fake your way through it and I love a ton of fakers too but I can tell when people are being sincere about what they're doing so uh yeah songwriting is a huge part of being an artist actually okay so I have a question for you in terms of your approach to songwriting um like do you feel like you gravitate towards a certain instrument or um like is it kind of just it goes song by song in terms of like how songs come out for you go song by song for me yeah I can um I I can even if if my if my uh concept for a song is sound

1:06:10I should be able to just say it over a drum beat or I should be able to say it turn it actually should translate even as a poem I I mean uh it's not a joke I've I've written poems that I turned into songs and the poems aren't for anybody they're just for me to like um get through a struggle with or or um try to silently encourage someone else uh I uh I like writing with guitar because it's kind of a challenge to um play guitar well and sing at the same time it's kind of I like that um it's much easier for me to sit behind a

1:06:53keyboard and use um a digital playback as a as a helping Aid um I I'm still an NPC person so I can sit down with an NPC and make this really awesome instrumental and then listen to it and go what the hell am I even saying here because I don't have a I don't have a the best thing for me to do is to start with an idea and then turn that idea into a message and then the message becomes a song so yeah yeah yeah yeah I think I think um I I've been asked that question before where it's like you know what is your what is your

1:07:32approach to songwriting and it's always interesting to hear you know how different people especially as a multi- instrumentalist like yourself you are too you play guitar and piano and you yeah you are too where do what do you do you have an instrument you prefer um K yeah definitely you're proficient so more than proficient so it's kind of a thing where knowing how to make Melodies on instrument is really useful it is absolutely yeah like you were saying knowing how to accompany yourself um it's it's something that I'm so grateful for because like if I have a a Melody idea or something I can just

1:08:18quickly come up with you know accompaniment or cord structure harmonies that sort of thing it without having to sing it that's a big thing for me is uh singing it takes me a while I I know I I I became a decent singer but I was always just a screamer you know and I was lucky to have a scream that was identifiable but um yeah I didn't uh I didn't become a singer till later and that takes time like I have to pratice I have to get my Mo my Mo voice muscles able to do what I want to so if I can play where I want to be on a guitar or

1:08:58on piano that's a good place to start as long as my message yes always comes down with the message I think yeah always yeah yeah yeah um so another question is actually um what advice would you give to someone who wants to hit the road in a similar style that you did um it seems like you're a very strong part of a strong underground community of touring artists I'd like to find out how to get into work I this that is what I talk about with artists more than anything else um so and I and I just said to Tash I don't remember if we were rolling or or it was

1:09:42before we started uh I I feel like you need to get out there and I'm not even sure that she and I agreed on this but if you if you really want to get out there and show people what you um have as an artist and um and you have the the right amount of um confidence to take the risk and and when I say risk I mean every aspect of risk you have to risk losing your job and your apartment and being poor and being scared and running into vehicle troubles you have every risk that exists you will encounter on a tour I promise do

1:10:38it play in people's garages to their parents and friends play at part parties play at any venue that will have you but I think the one piece of advice I would add to it is be strategic uh when Tash and I were doing in the early days we said yes and a lot of times we were just burning gas because there weren't any people in the room and and it's really punk rock to say yeah I played to four people but that doesn't help you strategize so that you know that 12 people will be there because those 12 people will turn into 24 and 36 and 48 and it grows

1:11:22exponentially when there's people in the room but just being punk rock it's still good to do because you learn who you are and you learn how to overcome um but you also you because I think part of a that question is is the idea that I belong to an underground Community I do and I don't you do and you don't you have to create Tash created her own Community dude I created my own Community create your own Community just get out there shake hands be nice or mean or whatever it is do you have to put yourself in that Circle and just do it um because there's

1:12:09no [ __ ] rules I promise there's no rules none of them apply my advice is [ __ ] but you can it if you go out there and you have something to offer someone's going to listen and someone's going to like it absolutely absolutely just do it just get out there oh yeah it it just comes back to if you have the because I think by even asking that question you are hungry enough to do it um are you willing to take the risk is kind of what it comes back to um the risks are different now I am there this is this so I went to a show

1:12:59with Michelle last year by a group that I kind of fell in love with called Hippie Sabotage um you could look they they're huge on Spotify and uh and they they're big enough to play Red Rocks but most people haven't heard of them it was one of the coolest shows I've ever seen it's a guy and his brother and they do this kind of like it's really electronic and it's kind of hip hoppy and and uh really Stony they're big time Stoners but the light show was and the stage show was just breathtaking the best visuals I've ever seen and it was sold out and the

1:13:35guy went on a rant complained about how little money they make Spotify doesn't pay and apple doesn't pay and shows cost so much money to put on you know he summed it up and it wasn't a downer because he told people that he was doing it to nobody he started and kept doing it and kept doing because he loved it it's just who he was and now his trap is that he's on the road if he wants to make money he's got to go on the road and put people in the room doing what he loves so if you do it and it resonates it will work I promise

1:14:15yeah I to see a sold out show by a band nobody knows last year it's it's a weird time yeah absolutely I would I would like to add that also don't be afraid to fail um if you're willing to to accept the risks that come along with it you know I've definitely had my share of shows where afterwards I was like well that was a that was my first Pancake it's necessary huh like the failures are like so necessary yeah yeah yeah absolutely and you learn from it and you grow from it hopefully and you know hopefully you don't make the same mistakes right try to learn to look at

1:15:01those failures as uh Su successes or lessons because um it's useful uh who who do we know that used to say like uh oh God Martin says it all the time and I know it's a really old phrase like bad any press is good press right any experience is good experience if you're willing to frame it that way I mean if you if you trip on your microphone cable and fall in front of 50 people you learn to laugh at yourself and that's huge so yeah I got that lesson at my very first recital so I was three years old and I was wearing this big dress and I

1:15:44tripped on my dress and I fell flat on my face um I was lucky though because since I was so young people thought it was cute and so everyone was like oh I mean might not be so cute now still reformative years you're probably traumatized by well I just I actually my takeaway from that was like people are like oh I was like okay well totally fine to trip and fall on your face you know no one cares yeah no you know yeah I and then I got up and I played the piano and so I was all fine you know but you know my my takeaway is just keep

1:16:21playing you know even if you forget your words you forget get what you're supposed to play just keep playing do this stuff all the time too I got it seems like I'm more likely to forget my words if I'm really excited so I have to try to keep my cool you know like try to do a little meditation because if I get excited I'm gonna words yeah yeah sometimes you know especially when I'm really in the music and I'm really I'm like blown away by my bandmates and I'm like oh my gosh I'm on a journey and then I'm like oh I'm supposed to sing now that's supposed to

1:16:55happen yeah same same like man they sound good tonight oh [ __ ] I missed my queue yeah yeah definitely been guilty that um oh we're getting a really cool um comment from DC Stevens um he was sharing that your comment about always being him in all his projects reminded me of a verse from a poem um and this is the verse so as as through a glass and Darkly The agong Strife I see where I in many gues many names but always me that's beautiful yeah that is beautiful it is really beautiful um and Zach Weiss um is sharing that um you've learned so much from those four and 12 people shows uh

1:17:42lots of wisdom here this is great sending a lot of love to you Zach so great to see you here um Zach's put on our shows um in De Moine um Zachs with cranial nerve records um and always a appreciate um Zach's amazingness and innovativeness so thank you so much for being somebody that we vitally need in the music Community see see there that's Zach is a really good example of those like those bonding moments with being out there in the real world and again it's not that it doesn't happen on social media but when you when you guys hung out with Zach that first

1:18:20time that fabric starts to happen it just it it's real f is forever yeah oh yeah absolutely I I feel like you learn a lot about people um and then this is just speaking from from the person who does all the booking in my band um I learn a lot about people just from like how we put shows together you know yeah and and you're like oh he actually writes me back thank you for that you know what I'm talking about sure sure I think like you learn and probably same you probably learned this from Zach is you learn what other people like about shows and what they take away

1:19:06from them and you said something before we went on I asked you if California was home and you said hold on a sec oh okay you said that you um you like that there's a lot of likeminded artists and like-minded people around you in that part of California I mean California is way more diverse than people think who are not from California people think that California is like everybody's in a Tesla everybody you know I mean everybody thinks that is one way California is super diverse but um do you think that being an abandoned being out there touring is you learn how to deal with

1:19:55people that aren't on the same page in a in a um uh for a lack of better words like in an amicable way you just learn how to because you you you learn you learn that people whether it's a promoter or gosh a fan or an anti-an or a waitress you're you're out there in the real world you know you meet people that just are super duper not on your page uh do you learn how to interface them in a dignified way for both of you do you think yeah oh what were we what were you gonna what were we gonna say I think I think the question is

1:20:50is does everybody need to go on to her these days I'm like everyone let's go on the road together I actually I do think that's something it's not it's like touring is traveling right it's a nomadic life um and and I feel like when you just kind of abute yourself in that moment um like yeah you're going to interact with so many people from from many different walks and you know I mean I grew up in a very diverse household um in a diverse family with different um cultures different beliefs and the one unifying thing was music like that was a thing like we all

1:21:29huddled around the piano and sing songs together and that was a thing that brought us all together and that was my early upbringing and I've seen that just go like into my adult life where I see the same thing where I'm like you know you can come from very very different backgrounds um but I feel like ultimately like when people I I've I meet very few people that are not deeply moved by music I've met a few but most people yeah they're out there yeah yeah so yeah yeah I get it now music is definitely the biggest tool for um breaking down barriers for sure at least

1:22:07in that moment because I mean we're in a strange time barrier wise but during during that moment of either experiencing music playing music listening to music together with other people the barriers seem to evaporate which I love I love that yeah I mean I know that you've traveled um and toured internationally um what what was that what's that been like for you like what what have you discovered as an American artist in different countries uh I wish I I'm gonna start with the place that I didn't get to play which was Japan I tried to actually move to I tried to move to Japan um and it at that

1:22:50time which was 2003 it uh the government basically the Japanese government wouldn't allow it so uh I loved I loved Japan for a lot of reasons because there was so much pride in being Japanese so again not a not a modern philosophy that that's healthy very nationalistic they love Japan they respect Japan and um you can't you can't be an outsider and fit in there I could try until I was dead to fit in I wouldn't but that that was okay I just really liked it I loved um I love the culture I am I'm on the PA I'm on like a Buddhist path so uh I I

1:23:42liked it I liked the Tokyo is incredible so much going on there it was like it's like being in in a dream kind of um I I was able to do business there though um I did a a publishing deal with Watson Nai and that was fascinating to deal with the head of a publishing company in Japan who was a woman absolutely shocking what you can imagine what she was like just a absolute go-getter because in in the Japanese culture to be that powerful as a woman is very rare um she was incredible and she helped try to facilitate me to move there she was doing everything she could

1:24:28but it it um practically not going to happen uh so I loved it I loved uh I sold a lot of hate Department shirts in Japan that was cool it sounds uh some cultures um just the way your music and name sounds in that with their accent and the way they talk and the way phonetically things work it's uh it's more likely that you'll be successful if I had get and play in Japan it probably would have been great uh but actually I haven't haven't really left the the country I've traveled a ton but in hate Department I've only I played Hawaii a couple of times

1:25:18and Canada feels I know you get on a plane and cross borders and stuff but America feels like Canada Canada feels like America um if you go really deep into Canada it feels more like France like uh what what is that s um I forget even north of Montreal Quebec City oh my gosh City felt like playing in France uh I loved it I mean I love it Canadians are lovely wonderful and um getting over the Border can be scary with gear and merch uh yeah awesome yeah we I'm Ko's played Canada Alice never has um but we played in Montreal and it did definitely felt like

1:26:09uh France it felt French yeah so so it seems you're there now it's just it's just a matter of time in the right Festival saying Alice needs to be up there too yeah I mean you never you never know I'm always open I'm you know like I think it goes back to the ethos of like saying yes so yes yeah always say yes yeah but you also alluded to having to with a ban that size there's a lot to consider there is there is yeah and we've got a lot of gear that's something that people always comment on they're like you have a lot of gear I'm like well there's six

1:26:50of us and um three of three of I'm sorry four of us actually play multiple instruments on stage so yeah yeah I was always the same way I was had gear I do you remember I used to take big Pas with hate department so that I was louder than I yeah so yeah y uh so one of the things I was Standalone when I did Standalone I wanted to do something that was just me or me and a drummer just because of gear and and also personnel itics I wanted to do something that I could say yes to more often um so I get it like having a band and gear and all

1:27:33that stuff it feels like it's an obstacle but I think in reality fans and promoters know if you're if you're gonna get a ban there's GNA be all that stuff's gonna come into play it's true and I mean it's interesting because I've seen some discussions about live drummer versus like having like a duo or a trio without a drummer um and I think that's it's it works so well with so many projects I don't think it would work as well with Alice in particular um like our music has been written by Steve I mean like he he has written the drum parts and it feels very integral um but you know it

1:28:12definitely works for other projects Just For Us in particular I think we would have to definitely you'd have to I mean something I did once is you could retool Steve Say say you need to find a way that you can be with us doing Steve's contribution without a footprint I mean you can retool you can do all that stuff but um but it's also cool to just be what are I think so yeah absolutely um so another question is um what is the strangest musical instrument you have ever played because I remember Standalone being very interesting in terms of yeah well also when I made that

1:29:06uh uh seabold the terrible record uh I played I played it gosh I did I just play there was no digital instruments it was all everything I um I I played something really really weird on um a cover I did a Ministry cover I did what's the first song on with sympathy I don't remember the name of the song but it's a Ministry covered I did and it was a read had I don't know about 10 different lengths of of bamboo and the and the mouthpiece was a hollowed out gour I don't even know the name of the instrument I it's so it's obviously an

1:29:59island instrument um and I did not get good at it I sucked at it for a long time because it was so hard to control like um you know how like a recorder if you even overblow a little bit on a recorder it goes up two octaves I can't I don't have the patience for it but um this thing I played it and played it and played it and I got good enough that I could do all of the little transitions with it uh yeah it was a weird uh weird win it whisper I don't know the name of the island instrument percussive stuff I can do I

1:30:38can do I can just keep practicing I know how to stick I know match grip and traditional grip I I can do all that stuff because I played drums for a long time um but uh stringed instruments can be a challenge uh I I'm Terri at mandolin anything that has two strings that are really close together like even like a 12 string guitar I struggle with I've got guitar players oh yeah that's what my tattoo is says terrible when I'm playing guitar um I I I have strong fingers but playing a a double stringed instrument ah it's hard it's hard on your fingertips especially a long period of time I

1:31:20couldn't do I wouldn't be able to do it in pig face I don't have the strength for it but um I love stringed instruments I love anything that has to do with organs or or um yeah that weird I don't even know what happened to that weird reading I bet someone stole it from me well on your new um and the new music that you're about to put out are you recording everything yourself and producing it all yeah and um so so what would happen with my new thing is I would probably release it and never say that it was me unless I thought what I was doing um was somehow

1:32:06relevant to people who liked what I had done with either hate department or Standalone or my um my contributions to anything Martin has done whether it was pigf face or the damage manual he and I are talking about doing some music together so that's kind of cool and and that could that would be I'd love to play with Martin again he's he's my favorite living drummer Josh is Josh is is a banger but um Martin reminds me of John Bonham but with a really bad haird so uh if I can if I can be in the same room playing music with him I'm gonna I'm gonna say yes

1:32:49yeah yeah you know what I mean like I would I like the idea of putting out anonymously and not not having the expectation that anybody who liked anything I did would automatically approve just because they think um just because they liked one of my records does that make sense or does that oh absolutely no I I've I've thought about actually I actually originally wanted Alice to be anonymous I yeah oh actually there's there's an aditt to it you know there's a component of of what you do that feels a little Phantom of the Opera in that way where it's kind of it's it's super genuine but it's

1:33:35theatrical in a way that gives you a a chance to be someone else it comes ACR I appreciate that I you know I I I do see myself in the future like releasing things completely anonymously so that's that's pipeline myself I completely relate to that yeah you know like I I don't feel I feel again I just don't want to I don't want to sound like too adult but I feel really really blessed what I came into the the genre the scene right at a time when uh it was possible to make waves by going and playing in clubs and shaking hands and being on compilations it's harder now

1:34:20it's much there's a lot more artists out there uh it's much easier to do things um just digitally but uh I I'm lucky I've had a great run and plenty plenty of um like my level of success for me I feel I feel like really blessed I was in the right I shook a lot of the right hands and a lot of people helped me and um I just kind of got into a TI with a guy named Nick uh he's when I first Michelle and I moved to Indiana moved to Indiana I didn't know anybody in [ __ ] Indiana I was like oh my God

1:35:04what am I gonna do so I went online and I started looking around and he was a guitarist for another guy and he looked cool and we liked a lot of the same music and I reached out to him and we became friends and gosh he introduced me in the midwest to a whole bunch of his friends and that helped me rebuild hate department and uh I feel lucky I feel lucky that I met Nick or uh that I met you God I mean John and uh and Scott and I met everybody I mean at one time I knew everybody and me Gordon I knew all

1:35:38of you guys and I feel lucky Super Lucky God I met Martin I toured with with the guy from skinny puppy God yeah got lucky um so if I could do something anonymously and never say don't drag any of that good fortune into um not that I feel like I need to start over because I don't but um if I could do something that I wasn't attached to and it just sank or swam on its own Merit uh I feel like I could kind of reenter a little bit I I could I could use that reentering as an artist right now yeah yeah it seems like that's kind

1:36:27of calling you it oh for sure yeah I mean I think it's really cool because talk about full circle was when you and I ended up in the same studio in Chicago I know that was so awesome so awesome and Britney's lovely and her La her record came out two years ago I was like yeah my jaw was on the floor I mean yeah we have met you know some beautiful people I've met some beautiful people is just kind of that's the best part of the genre and the scenes is that even even people that you may not want to hang out with which that

1:37:04that happens you know he like you people that you're like it's like they're just too intense whether it be socially or politically for me I'm still super lucky to know them and have them as as part of let's say a peer group or or a group of colleagues that were that were all creators together that's a that's a big part of existence is what you create and what you leave behind when you are no more it's like we're in that together that's a big deal to me yeah yeah I think that's beautifully said I think that um like it that is your I guess your your footprint

1:37:47in the world yeah the whole flag pole thing I used to flag thing a lot because I was encouraging bands like you and other bands that came to my studio there in in Fullerton which is like you know you know how the studio can be be really daunting right people get the red light syndrome when they know they're recording they can't sing a note um but or they leave feeling like they didn't do the best they could which is like that marker that you plant with the flag even if you don't release it it's uh it signals where you were at that time and you still recorded it it still exists

1:38:29even if it's for you it's um that that marker that flag pole of where you were is really it signals Evolution it does it does and I think it also helps other people who are needing to hear that in that moment I totally agree that's why people should release it even if they think no one will like it someone will like it I guarantee it yes yes absolutely you were talking about watching um I'm so sorry I forget the name of the artist that you saw recently but you were talking about how yeah it be yeah and it's like you just I don't know I guess you put stuff out there and

1:39:17you never realize you never know you know you never ever know yeah there's artists now that haven't put rep music the like the kind of like the phenomenon of of social media Tik Tok especially is artists that haven't recorded anything in five years blow up it's really weird it's uh you just don't know what's gonna I'm I'm not it's I would never say that social media um awakens people to how amazing we are because that's not how it is but it's more like in line with what Clint said is there's a lot of people and the more people that ex that are in they're in a

1:40:04time zone in their life where what you said five minutes ago or 10 years ago if they're in that same process what you created could really resonate with them so don't be I try not to be too embarrassed try not to beat up all my high hat patterns for my first record I just try to accept that that's where I was I'm trying yeah yeah well I I am very much looking forward to whatever whatever comes out next in the present yeah and we that we can collaborate and we could just keep doing this I would love to talk to you more often and as many times you will I'm

1:40:49gonna obviously keep following this show because I love what you're doing so oh please please please more more more seabold I always I've always loved our chats I've always loved our intersections and yeah I'm thank you so much for for taking the time and for for sharing your beautiful soul and your wisdoms and your Inspirations like yours too and thank you Scott I appreciate it man um thank you all so much for for taking the time to share your Sunday with us um and for your wonderful thoughtful questions uh next week we're actually going to have a Canadian artist um named Lindsay Schoolcraft she's amazing amazing um keyboard player

1:41:35harpist singer um she played keyboards and saying uh with cradle Phil um and has her own solo project Lindsay Schoolcraft and so we'll be joined by her next week um but uh in the meantime is are there any parting wisdoms or Inspirations you'd like to share just do it something and go out there take it to people I will I I will if if others will I mean I I say that a lot too is I'll go playing garages H happily if you will do it okay I'm gonna hold you to that okay let's do it all right well thank you so much so good to see you yes take care of

1:42:25yourself okay thank you you too thank you everyone