Elizabeth Inglese of YES Music Productions, in full

1:24hi friends this is TSH with Unwritten rules of the road um happy Sunday we have an amazing special guest today Elizabeth Eng glaz um from yes music productions thank you so much for joining us today thank you for having me uh TSH midday on a Sunday so not goth of us yes I know so you have like kind of like I like that you have like the cave and the twinkly lights in the background so yes we got we got to keep it a little little little maob as we can you know yes a I'm excited to to have you on our stream um I the first time actually I I

2:04was um introduced to yes music was through Yasha um Ali was um having a stay with Yasha when Alice played at mechanismus and um that's the first time he was like you've got to like check out yes music productions they're amazing um and then I got to meet you um when you came to our show when we played with system sin um and I thought that was just really really cool like that was my first impression was that you know this wasn't even a show that you put on but you were coming out to support um yeah and I mean and that's kind of like how this whole thing

2:40started not to like get too far ahead of this conversation but yeah we were always just out there anyway or just always going online saying like holy crap there's this amazing band go see them um you know like what are you doing tonight you should go see you know this up and cominging band or this huge tour who's going and you know not not just producing our own shows but being out there and supporting other shows and and it's just because we love the music so that's that's the drive and yeah and you guys are fabulous by the way that was just I think it was fun house right in

3:11Seattle it was like that small stage drums just very Tribble and I was like like kudos to you by the way in the band like just blown away with that performance So yeah thank you well I just I think that's really amazing I mean that's that's you don't always see that in communities like sometimes promoters can be competitive um and I feel like maybe that's why you have a really healthy community in Seattle you know I imagine yes uh I've heard a few people say and I'm so bad at these like the sayings what is it like high tide R like All Ships rise on the

3:44high tide or something like that so basically like if we're all doing well the city as a collective will do well so if you know mechanismus is producing this amazing festival and we've got our you know a couple shows a month and the and the the dance nights that are happening across the city if we all just like you know plug each other and and support each other's events it just like a weak Community will will cause for us all to fail so um and even if it's a situation where you know we have dueling events on a night well how can we you know run a promo like you know show your

4:14ticket from this to get $2 off there and vice versa and you know ours can be the pre-party and that can be the after Funk or whatever you want to call it so that way everybody gets a little bit of a piece of the pie so yeah absolutely yeah and I think I think that's that's awesome sorry go ahead around the time when we Ali was like the he was like the go-to he was like the One-Stop shop for everything dark music in town mechanismus everything from like you know the the emo postpunk to like the you know the ragy you know funker vot industrial and so I think he was kind of

4:42glad to have some new promoters come in and and take a little bit of the weight off of his shoulders to take on some of that more like the dark wave some of the more you know like gothrock bands and stuff like that and and we're all still a family and support him and and then that's how you ended up staying with Yasha because you know this is what we do um like we need lodging everybody you know in the community stand up and help out or whatever so yep yep I loved that I mean what do you think first sparked your love of live music like was it like

5:14your first show or was there anything in particular that started that I think um well it may all go all the way back to like age eight or so like GRE grow up in I grew up in New York and my mother first concert I ever went to was like Janet Jackson and I basically came up listening to the music my mother did Paula Abdul we saw color me bad and um like Robert Palmer and all those like sort of Dancy bands share you know so like just like the Dancy music was like kind of my cornerstone coming up as a kid and then later on as a teenager

5:44listening to typo negative and like um White Zombie and Allison Chains and then getting into hip hop and then like also like my mother's listening to like Donna Summer somewhere in Whitney Houston so all along I'm like listening like this music right coming up as a kid and then like when I moved to Seattle one of my first concerts was um going to see time cop I believe it was time cop 1983 who I'm seeing uh in like a week here in Seattle like retro synth wve love it opening for him was Karin who we've produced a few times Duo out of Philadelphia and I actually got myself

6:20there early enough to see the opener which that's a whole other conversation one day about getting yourself there early enough to see the opener but I saw them and and they just like blew me away and I was like oh my gosh and the music was just Dancy but it was Moody and I think that was the the point when I was had moved to Seattle where I saw a show and I was just blown away with how Dancy and dark the music was and I was like I just want more of this and I was there by myself I had just moved here I didn't

6:47know anybody and I just like went up and approached them and I said hi morgie and Trey probably don't remember that and I had just moved here from Jersey so I was like oh my God I could have been seeing you guys in Philly but it took me to go all the way to seatt TOA but like I think there was like that show in that moment in Seattle anywhere anyway which like really was the impetus for me to just go out to concerts here and like you know aside from like back in the day I was I was married maybe I didn't go to

7:11concerts as much but this was I think that was the event in Seattle that started me really just going to concerts didn't know anybody bought the ticket met people eventually met Yasha going to concerts and and round around we go we've met everybody else now um and so forth but I think that was that moment where I was like I want to be around this like all the time like and into the work week like I'm going to go out and I'm just going to like listen to some music and just like whatever happens the dancing the the bobbing of the head maybe a drink maybe saying hi to whoever

7:39dancing with a person you know but it was just like it was like a feeling right and so that was like and the rest is history I guess I I think that's amazing because when I first met you you really like brought so much joy to the room that's the best way I can describe it like you really did like you could tell that you really loved the experience of being at the show and I mean yeah I feel like with with music promotion you absolutely have to love what you're doing right yes and and I would say like every show I do have a military background and I feel

8:12like every show it's like a military operation where things can change um you have to be able to think quick on your feet and I love the the um the intensity of that situation where it's you know it's game time right it's everything it's like Christmas day like leading up to this culminating moment we've done everything we can do we've planned and maybe something's going to go arai like we had a band get locked in the green room I'm not going to drop any names but if they watch this and listen to this they're going to probably kill me for saying this later but like situations

8:39like that right or you know who forgot to bring what or didn't put what in the tech writer or has an allergy to this or whoever the headliner is caught in traffic and you're like all right cool let's think on her feet let's still get this thing done and I just love that um the energy of that whole moment where we're having to like still make it all happen and then when you see the fans show up whether it be 20 like our first show or whatever to like you know let's say 200 a sellout or like at one of our local independent venues and to see them all

9:07have that same reaction to that band that I had way back in the day before I even started doing this like live music thing to see them have that same like innate reaction that just sort of euphoric like moment of bliss I'm like yes like that's what we wanted all that work up and and just go through that whole like living in that moment in the experience it just for me yeah it's it's a very like Joy thing that it's it's kind of like not like any other I would I would argue and I've not done everything in life but I would say that it's definitely it's Unique and in and

9:38itself yeah for sure I mean I mean actually one something that you mentioned that I wanted to ask about is um like you mentioned like when a band has like 20 people there like it's a you know it's a first time like like what are the feelings cuz I know that sometimes there can be a lot of pressure to like fill a room and a certain number of heads like how how do you feel as a promoter when there's a smaller number of attendees like when that happens well I would say our first ever show when people just showed up period I was like oh people are here they actually know

10:14about this like wow you know um and I think our first show ever was coming out of the pandemic 2021 our first like actual actual show like on our own by ourselves in person was like mask show Hollows album release in Seattle when they first um when they were still living here before they went to warmer weather um but just to see people showing up like I was like oh my gosh like this is like working like we we organized a thing we talked about it online and like they're here and like so where there was like five people or 500 we're just glad people were there moving

10:44forward to like later on where you start to have like these expectations of who should be showing up um I would say nowadays um like if you ever at one of our shows you see me bouncing around everywhere it's because I'm I'm talking to the door like what are the sales looking like because now I'm calculating you know like how much money are we losing how much money is the band making like stuff like that I'm like tabulating as I'm like but also like you know hi hospitality and like talking to people and all that but it's you know it's one of those things where there's so many

11:12different things that could come into why maybe a show doesn't do well or doesn't or does very well where you know there could be competing nights a major tour rolls into town thank you skinny puppy for announcing a tour on the same where we've got a small to mid-range artist coming through right sometimes we can reschedule sometimes we can't so you know I think at that moment we just you just do the best you can in that kind of a situation and and I've and and coming up and when I was very novice doing this we worked with bands who were not novice they were like um they were I'm sorry am

11:43I getting that wrong wait novice means that you know what you're doing when we didn't know what we were doing and you had like these like Pro bands coming in they're like whether we've got 500 people or five we will put on the same exact show and I was like oh thank you and and they're not going to act like silly on stage because only five people show up and you still you still give that same energy and you still are very happy and optimistic and promising and still um do good marketing and do your good due diligence with all of your your um patrons who come to the show and I

12:09think that positivity can just be um infectious to where it's like okay I'm not gonna let this get me down I'm not gonna go online and you know and all that kind of thing and and and I think at the end of the day the bands will even be thankful they'll say well maybe we didn't have the best turnout we didn't make the most amount of money but we had this great experience because of like this energy you brought the positivity the professionalism and I think that's sometimes that's like the best we can do you know in this industry is that just keep our chins

12:36up you know and keep you like driving forward but yeah sorry that was kind of like a long-winded answer but I I think hopefully that answered your question no I I love it thank you for sharing that it's something like um I love your positive attitude about that um I I feel like sometimes you know it's like you as as an artist um if you're fortunate you will partner with an amazing promoter like yourself who has that positivity cuz you know like you said there can be factors out of control we we did experience the the skinny puppy tour um like X Factor on one of our tours last

13:13year it all across the country I think in that we were like oh we have all the same dates for like half the tour it just happens you know um but you know and and um sometimes actually I've had shows because I do all the booking for the band but sometimes I've had shows where there is no promoter it's just like me um and I'm not even in that City so um yeah I guess a question I have for you is like um what do you like to see from artists um when they're working with you on like promoting a show like what are things that we can do

13:46as artists to help out with that oh my gosh just the um the and I know it's a lot right because you also have to like write music and practice it and rehearse it and then choreograph a stage you know production visuals so like oh by the way can you also like promote your music and Market it and be really good at the business side of it and it seems like an instrumental like amount of stuff to ask of an artist but honestly like and I was talking with one of our local bands here in Seattle who just kind of like launched and and they really have the

14:15marketing and the um business side of their band buttoned up at a very early stage and I mean I don't have to hate to have to say it but I kind of hate to have to say it but like in this day and age if that you're like so like 10 steps ahead if you've got all that buttoned up in terms of like you know your your you know music business as an artist but also your touring um and and kind of like just being like ahead of the game and being communicative with your promoter or your your local talent buyer who you're working with and and having

14:43your Tech writer just buttoned up and knowing how to like run paid ads on your own and and being online like there's certain bands who are so online like the first time we ever worked with dead on a Sunday I was like when are they writing the music there's no way that they're on Tik Tok this much and can actually hurt the music it's like it's insane but like I mean not to say that you have to be like on Tik Tok and like insta and all that that level but like but just holy smokes like like I'm like do I even need to like promote this because you're

15:10doing such a phenomenal job and at the end of the day I hate to have to say it as much as we'd love for youall to come see me and yash's beautiful faces it's not about coming to see us it's about coming to see you know the bands and so if the bands are online and and doing some sort of you know running a payad or just doing a little bit of Grassroots in stal here and there and all um you know we'll have fans who won't even know because they're like maybe they're not following us maybe you're a new goth kid in Seattle like you just moved here you

15:35don't know how to Google yes music production shows like you're gon to Google you know let's say Alice right Alice Seattle when are they coming here and if let's say bad example you guys are lovely um let me I'm I'm gonna use one of my a show we have coming up Kevin you're gonna hate me for this we have Novo arcade coming through um and I can say this because he I love him like I'm using that as a like an example let's say Novar Kad didn't do any promotion on the thing um which they don't they do a phenomenal job but um people are

16:01following them only like I like synth wve uh Gothic industrial synth wave shows in Seattle if I Google that and I find nothing about newor Arcade then they won't go to that show because they don't know enough to Google yes music productions because who would you just moved here you're you're a goth kid who wants to just Google goth shows or whatever and so if if that band's doing a terrible job then like you're missing like a like a percentage of the fans so by you as a band doing that like that that takes just such a weight and you know each individual in a band like

16:26let's say five five of you who have like you know thousands of followers each that's just the multip like you know the the fact of multiplication there in terms of like how you could draw a crowd into like a live show and then my business is the live show and all that so right there like that that business side and the marketing side if bands could just you know if they put like that little bit of effort into it um we've had a I'm not gonna you know drop it but we've had had shows where the band you know barely said anything online and I'm like well G like you know

16:53they're they're not here to like I said they're not here to see us they're here to see you and if you don't say anything online I mean there's only so much I can do and I I always joke I'm like you don't want me to get on stage and sing like that's the last thing so but yeah as um yeah as an up and coming or even like just a you know and eventually get to a point where you have a you know publicist you have PR you have management who help with all that kind of stuff but you know a lot of Independent Artists who are coming up

17:17can't afford that yet and so it's very much the DIY Grassroots effort on behalf of the artist so I wish it was a situation where you're good you can just go sing and people they'll arrive but you know this is that's this is the digital age and people need to be told you know so yeah I would say that's that's probably the biggest thing honestly and that buttoned up Tech writer oh my goodness don't draw it on a napkin kids please don't because I don't do Tech right so if I if I I'm like I'm hoping that front of house knows this like if I give them

17:48the napkin you know you know like if they're good they're like yeah yeah we're fine like like but I've gotten some I've gotten some um TSH I've actually showed up and coming bands I was like here's a really good example of a great Tech writer you know and I they're like oh wow I'm like yeah so like that that too right there is just having your Tech buttoned up y yeah that's actually something that I think people that haven't Ted you know extensively might not even know um about that so right yeah like you know what are you bringing on tour with you um what what is feasible right like your

18:25strip down presence here's our here's our Tour Version here's and sometimes that means a whole other body doesn't go with you like you know like we're twopiece we're out door um and then you know communicating with your promoter not the day before but like what you might need on backline because I do not love scrambling the night before trying to find some backline because we we can rent it but guess what that becomes a tour that becomes a show expense that gets deducted from from from like all the things before the artist gets paid and no and nobody wants to have to deduct in one more thing from the artist

18:58pay and so if if that's communicated well in advance we beg borrow and steal I'm Italian all right we will beg borrow and steal I will spend more time trying to find like that buddy who's got that keyboard stand or whatever um or that drum rig that we can get kind of like at our friends and family right um and you know don't rely on your Venue having a a like even if it says that they've got a drum kit well you know the Kick's busted and you know like oh if You' got a cabinet well the head's busted you know like for your you

19:28know your Your Bass rig or whatever kind of thing so yeah communicating well in advance like it's the premeditated thing on the tech so yeah we could probably talk all day about that and I and I'm not even like this is not even my forte but like I've learned that um what is it uh failing to plan is planing to fail absolutely absolutely yeah no I I and it's it's it's I love working with people that are organized and that do plan ahead cuz I feel like it's so much less stress that way uh CU hopefully you guys all get to enjoy yourselves right while you're

20:03doing this I know there's been shows where like we booked these bands because we love them and I remember there's been like a few like like you know and I love all the bands in the lineup let's say like that one headliner who were like oh my gosh and like uh one of the talent buyers wanted to do settlement during like the headliners set and I was like can we wait I was like this is my favorite song of there go just wait you know and he's like okay yeah um but yeah like at a certain point just being able to take a moment and like hopefully like

20:31all that preparation now like so I can like let just let this thing run and I can stand back but also I'm like well I got to go get some videos I got to go some photos and you know that too but like still watching though and enjoying um enjoying the show too yeah yeah for sure um I wanted to take just a moment um thank y'all so much for for tuning in and hanging out with us um we're getting you're getting some love from I I hope I'm saying this right um Stylo or delock 1989 um that's thanking you for your service as well as a Mia um yeah and um

21:06yeah yeah thank you so much um yeah um I I I am sure that you know with your experience it's like it's probably really served you in terms of really you know being able to line things up being able to just like deal with like chaos as it happens right yes like Logistics operations um organization like spreadsheets and trackers and um and just and being able to like like think on your feet and not freak out you know like how can we okay okay this is a crisis situation how can we deescalate what's happening like I I think the biggest crisis the first crisis we ever had which is at the end

21:48of the day not the worst crisis but we had um a smoke alarm go off I'm sorry a um fire alarm go off Vision Video we had Vision Video in town and um fog like now we're learning right we're always learning I don't know all the things but fog triggered the smoke alarm and at the beginning opening act for their show and they like No And Not only was it like the the awful like like like the worst trance song you've ever listened to you know the one that kind of sounds like your alarm clock in 1992 you know like high school memories or whatever you

22:16know so we like that was happening and like you know like are we gonna lose the crowd and even even when that stopped the strobe was still going the fire department had to come in and shut that off because that tripped the whole PA oh so the show had to stop and so you know like Yasha is like let's hey this is a good time to go buy merch let's get people you know like it's get the people there and then like some kids were like like techno dancing out to like the strobe like it was just like let's deescalate this thing not let's let's

22:46not lose our cool um one thing I did learn coming up in the Marine Corps was like like true leaders can like walk smoothly through the rain and so always just trying to like think about that like in every aspect of life if like if like you know stuff is hitting the fan like like all right you know how can we think on our feet and like and mitigate a problem here and and The Show Must Go On right you know and and we've had shows where like you know like the oh my gosh like the headliner um caught in massive traffic and we had to do like a reverse

23:17sound check and then we had like a oh my gosh that was a nightmare that one reverse sound check and we switched the venue it was like another room within the same place all and this is like one of our early shows I was mortified but just like well you know what let's just be hospitable to these people when they arrive we're going to have to like I'm doing online updates to the schedule so people know that you're baned that you like isn't you know but just making sure that like everybody has all the information and that people don't show up and they missed whatever and and just

23:43trying to like the best we can and I think at the end of the day if we just um give all of ourselves the grace and patience to realize that we're all just doing the best we can to make it all happen um and and when I say nowadays like when something's happening at a show I'm like like you know you might hear some pitchy feed back during a set or something like that right and people like oh you know and like that sound wasn't good I'm like we have live music remember like five years ago now this is what I say nowadays whenever something's going a ride during

24:10a show I'm like this is live music like we are like like let's just like take a moment to like I'd rather have a live live experience where like there's some like weird sound stuff going on versus being put back on my couch watching this as a live stream with a mask on okay so like I'd rather like have like a little bit ofn food during a live show I just like look at the bright side in that in that aspect so yeah all of you remember that oh be back on our couches watching this instead yeah we're in a room it's a little foggy I know that sucks too much

24:41Haze you know a lot a long line for the bar oh that sucks but I'd rather that day the live experience yeah for sure I remember our first tour out like you know and it was just like oh like never will take this for granted like never ever take this for granted yes yeah yeah absolutely like we were all like that next year we were like we're going to go to all the shows because what if they just don't happen and then we're like well maybe maybe they will happen again so we kind of like we're like okay they'll probably happen next year like and so we like all the shows but oh my

25:18gosh yeah my wallet took some abuse and what year whatever year like the full first year oh yeah yeah I was like who needs a savings account you know I know c music right so um we're getting an awesome question from Micah um who's asking uh what strengths do you have that you believe um make for a great musician um that's the first question and the second question is what is the funniest or weirdest question that you've ever been asked in an interview so first question uh what strengths do you believe makes for a great musician oh I feel like I'm at a job interview this is I'm

25:58like some flashbacks I'm like this is one of those trick questions like oh my weakness is my strength okay so what what's a strength in a good musician huh well I mean is that what they're asking like um what makes a what makes a what's a strength that I would what would make a good musician what's a strength that would make a good musician you're not talking just like Talent right you're talking like like holistically speaking like like this this is the thing that's really going to set you above from the rest kind of thing and I I think well you know it depends on what what that musician's

26:26doing like a a record label is going to say something different than a talent agency versus like a promoter or even a talent buyer um but I think it's you o being genuine and transparent oh gosh that's more than one thing um huh I think I would bring it down to just being very personable um we've worked because I think with anything it's it's kind of like a job interview right like well yeah you have the skills and you you're a good musician blah blah blah but GE if we like if we work with you and you're not very personable or you're not easy to work with it's going to like

27:01that's going to make it tough for us to want to work with you again you know and I and I've and I've got high patience for like working with multiple different personalities but coming in with um just you know the grace and the patience as an artist to realize that we are in a live music setting and and just to come in with confidence and and Poise but just being genuine and and and and personable too because we're all humans right um and and sometime I I always re rever like my these bands we work they're like some of my favorites I'm always like oh my gosh like I can't

27:30believe you're on stage in front of me and I'm getting to work with you but also like we're all people too so as long as you are just very humble and genuine um it just makes the whole experience easier for everybody and then the fans feel like they can approach you like we've had some fans and I will never drop any names but you know and I I'm like well did that really happen like we've had fans like oh I felt like I couldn't approach so and so at the at the um for the autograph or whatever I'm like oh that's terrible you know like um

27:54and I hope that you know and someday if we ever work with like you know the biggest St to all time but I think everybody's the biggest artist of all time but like just being very humble and genuine and and putting you know like everybody super talented but putting your ego aside and just being you know just being a person but being like you know very professional is that too many like things to ask allinone but but just just genuine and humble and and and just realizing that we're all just trying to do the best we can and if and if that shines through all else even if like you're half good

28:27on stage I'm like you know what but it was like a darn pleasure to work with you and I would absolutely ask for you to come back again you know so yeah I love that I mean I feel like it's sort of like the Lasting Impression is the human element right yes yes absolutely yeah because we think we're g to remember all the no we don't you know we'll remember like those like kind of like really genuine character characteristics of a person so yeah yep yeah absolutely like I you know the shows that I've seen scene where things have gone wrong it was actually how the

29:00artist handled it and how they made us feel really comfortable like they just didn't make a big deal of it they were just talking to us like you know we're all hanging out and it actually made me like walk away from that loving them that much more yes yes you're human yes yes so the second part of the question from Micah was um what is the funniest or weirdest question that you've been asked in an interview like for my job like like my actual day job or like I think in general like in life in life yes huh well well I don't know if this would

29:38answer the question but I was just doing um oh uh I'm was advancing a I'm starting to advance one of our shows we have coming up at the end of March and you know as you do I need your Tech riters blah blah blah and one of our local artists sent me um their their synth artist which um if he's watching he might get get a kick that I'm mentioning this but like he had a little funny nuggets that he put in the end of the um uh Tech writer and so I always think it's funny like when bands asks for some if they get a little silly in

30:05their Tech writer which I think I think you should always be silly in your your I'm sorry not your Tech but your hospitality writer like you know have some levity in your hospitality writer and I was like um the first time we ever worked with Street fever so this so as a result this jogged my memory about the first time we ever worked with Street Fever who I don't know if you're familiar but he's like he's just a very Avant guard style ebm industrial artist who's just like he is a show you have to see him live and the first time we ever worked with him I think it was like 2022

30:35so we're we're kind of still you know like learning back then and his Hospitality writer I was like when we first started getting Hospitality writers an artist would ask us I was like Yasha we got to find like this very obscure kind of peligrino and now we've learned that like like do you really need that or will like these you know the fizzy stuff from the venue um work but we would just be like so bands were asking so I'm saying this is a funny thing like bands are asking us of this stuff and his Tech his Hospitality writer oh my gosh it was like and I actually just texted it too

31:08um this band the other day I was like you have to see this it's GNA give you a laugh but at first at first it was like they were asking for Red Bulls and um uh you know soda water as you do and then all of a sudden it was like a Bible newer Old Testament will suffice um they wanted a a hard copy of the kyalin um they wanted a crucifix and so as as I was like as still as an upand cominging promoter as I was like reading this I was like I was like oh my god do we have to get this

31:37stuff and I was like kind of like no right and but I was like do we and so and so I was just like and like Yos was I don't know and like and so I literally online and was like help Seattle I don't know if this is like like we really need to Source this stuff or not and like people like like it takes a village but people chimed in and they're like they're like I got that you like he you throw like I thought that was like you know and I I love street but I was just like I was like I love

32:10that like have levity and like be funny and ask weird stuff in your and that'll that'll like then you'll know if your promoter is looking at the damn Hospitality writer that's true that's true so yeah that was I don't know if it was meant to be funny but it was definitely like it was one thing that s out in my mind it's kind of like the I guess the one of the funniest things that's ever happened asked of us well I I feel like that's okay so that's kind of a challenge and for people that work with you in the future is what are some strange things that we

32:41can ask for like wait a minute but I mean it's it's a great way to keep keep some levity you know through this whole oper you know and but also making sure the artist taken care of but like just you you know and and also like hey this this is a great segue for like make sure your your hospitality writers are buttoned up oh my gosh I don't know how many times bands I've have asked for like have asked for like the phone book in terms of booze and I'm like oh yeah we've been sober for like five years now and I'm like okay good thing we didn't buy that

33:18yes but yeah yeah but yes it's I think it's yeah that's it's a great way to keep some levity in the whole experience you know for sure so anal is asking uh what inspires you um I would say just seeing like new like consistently seeing like new hungry artists like I'm gonna throw Tyler knowin under the bus right now but like in a good way um getting to know Ty Tyler is a um ebm dark wave industrial artist out of Seattle who previously was an artist and then like kind of like um was looking for new representation and so I was taking a step back to like

33:54reconfigure their their business side and music of it all and then I met him around that time and didn't know he was an artist and so he like told me one day and I was like what and it's like really good music and so we've now worked with him several times and we'll be working with him again with a harsh symmetry comes to town but but just like when I listen to his music I was just like oh my God this is good like this is good like I need to get you on stage immediately um so that right there like Novo arcade who we're gonna have March

34:1821st in Seattle this is I'm like again Kevin like I feel like I'm throwing them under the bus but like I it's like the raised Italian we spank you because we love you like I talk about you because I love you because I think your music is really good like when they first launched their music I was like oh my gosh this is good and if I can ever get like these guys on the stage which we are now like March 21st and like they they are precisionist they they perfected their oh my gosh the music is good the deliver is g to be phenomenal

34:44the they put a meticulous um attention to every detail it's going to be a phenomenal production but like so it took a while for them to be ready for live right and so to finally like I'm like so like so when I hear that new that new band come out with some new music and if it's and it's feasible for me to be able to work with them I'm like o like the first time uh we worked with the band called missing words out of um they're of like the LA area like Rich kind of like a synth pop sound I found like one of their songs and I just like

35:11fell in love with it and like um reached out to them kind of like cold call on Insta and was like oh my gosh I love the song have you guys ever toured like if you guys are ever in like Seattle like hit me up because like please and they're like okay let's do it and so they did and they booked a tour a date with us and then made the rest of the tour based off on that Seattle date um because I like reached out and was like holy crap your music is amazing so I just like when I hear like really great music I'm just like oh I would to love

35:37to work with these people and get them on a stage and be able to say like and like and see those fans like react to that music the way that I reacted to that music and so I think it's just that's what kind of like keeps me going and and I and I think that's what's allowed for us to just kind of really start to create our little niche of what we're producing it's because it's bands that we really really like and it's the music we really really like and when we first started I was like we're going to book all the bands I like metal let's do

36:02that too and but I realized like while I do like metal I do like techno and I do like you know Indie pop like this is the music that's in my core and so and I really am passionate about this music so let let's focus on that and let's get that on a stage and let's continue to like investigate and and um SE seek out new music so I think that's that's always going to be like the driving Factor absolutely um and I think it is it's powerful when you do just focus when you're like okay let's just focus on this particular thing right and it

36:33was Ali honestly because he can he really mentored us coming up when we were doing this whole thing and like the ins and outs like a lot of like our success I would give him credit for because you know he was showing us how like right when a band comes in you have to make sure that they're taking care of the Green Room blah blah and all this kind of like rules the road with a full operation of a show but um you know I wanted to sort of uh book all the kind of music that I like because I do like all kinds of

36:56music but it's it's tough to know like every um genre every all the locals in those genres like you want to know all your your good locals and so if I would have to know to like all know all of the Indie pop bands all of the um singer songwriters all the local up and cominging metal acts all the uh pop punk bands like on top of knowing all the gothic industrial to be able to funnel the appropriate support acts for a tour like and have a day so I was like okay let's reel it back let's focus on one thing we're really got instead of being

37:28like you know Jack ofall trades master of none kind of thing let's focus on the one thing we're really good at so to where people are like oh those girls do that stuff really well so if we go to that their show regardless of whether we know the band or not we know it's going to be a great lineup because we know it's like you know we can throw on our fishnets or our neon raveware and it's going to be like it's going to be like the same expected thing every time and it's be a quality act because they know that that's their craft they know that

37:53so still find me I'm gonna go see a midal show on Monday though so don't and so you'll see so when I'm not doing that's where you're going to find me like just bopping my head you know like yes and we've even had where like I've been at like oh I just saw a really good artist recently and people like they thought it was our show and and I was like well just because I'm there doesn't mean it's mine but I will you will see me on occasion run interference I'm like I gotta go talk to the front of house this doesn't sound good like I'm like all right started from

38:21overstepping but like what do you think about doing this I know I'll get back to but I do it very tactfully though well audre actually asked uh what you think about what makes a powerful o that's that's like the golden question right like what is gonna draw the people sell all the tickets and you know I used to try to do the thing where I was like every band has to be sound the same or like if it's like a you know the headliners a goth rock band like well the the opening to go goth Rock and and the you know direct support band needs

38:59to be goth Rock but I found that we all kind of like Teeter like within that realm of like we're talking about Gothic Industrial Music right like within that realm we've got you know we like some of the Post Punk and we like some of the more emo stuff and then but we also sometimes want to rage to some of the more like you know agroindustrial stuff um so it's okay to have lateral limits of like what we can plug into a lineup but I still always try to make sure that it makes sense um and that um that people will get there early on for the

39:30opening act um so sometimes it means trying to have to be strategic like if I have a lesser known headliner like maybe I need to bring in like a local heavyweight who draws their like hundred friends and family to the show so it's it's really can be it's kind of like all over the map sometimes um and just because I really like a band and I will go to that show doesn't mean like you know 200 other people will um and there's been times where it was you know like a kind of lower turnout and I still sit up there right in the front but it's

39:59It's Tricky it's I think it's a combination of all the things it's like it's especially in Seattle is it raining is it Tuesday is it too late is it too early um is it on is it on the same day as skinny puppy is it a Sunday you know there's like all there's like this like perfect storm for like the right show and it's at a certain point you just you do the best you can to think that like this is the best the best day the best time the best lineup that we can put together in this circumstance to where hopefully people recognize the effort

40:24that was put in um and but ALS also giving like some of those upand cominging artists a chance too so you know I think that's there's a testament to that too like you don't always um get that same person to open every show like there's new artists coming up and and I think and I hope that fans recognize that that is a strength that we're pulling in some of these newer artists to be opening X because this is how the um the um the life cycle of an artist should work you shouldn't always open you know you shouldn't always be direct support I'm going to move you now into

40:55the direct support slot next time we work with you and then the next time I'm going to move you into the headliner spot so I can bring a new up and coming so I think that's a strong suit right there and hopefully the fans and and the bands recognize that where I don't want to repeat the same show and I think that should be a strength too is kind of like changing up that lineup every time so you're not seeing the same show like oh there's that band with that opener every time we come to Seattle it's at that same place the same 100 people so I

41:18think and hopefully people recognize that as like a a strength in terms of like curating these lineups so that's a little Insider tip that's actually I mean I feel like that really holds a lot of wisdom in terms of also the future visioning and like really thinking about big picture you know um and and also being in service to the bands like really like how can we actually help them grow right yes I um recently did that with an artist that came through town and I was like you know I've seen you a bunch of times and every time you know phenomenal artists uh they draw a crowd it's like

41:50you know maybe like the same 150 people and I was like you know next time you come through town you should really be checking out XYZ venues that bring in like these really big acts that draw 500 plus let's say and maybe try to get yourself on an opening slot for that and I was like you know I don't expect some payment for this but I'm like I'm just going to throw a name out there and and I'll and I'll let them know like I'll let that Talent buyer at that venue know and and one of the venues we book out quite a bit in town they're like

42:14Elizabeth are you their agent like no but I just want to like you know like do that thing where I'm just like making sure that like you know because if if like a big tour is coming through that draws that 500 plus if they can come up from La this band then that could be a good thing for them to grow to instead of playing that same hundred people they now can be on a stage in front of 300 plus people so that's you know that was just me kind of trying to like add a little you know value as I could based on what I've seen in the

42:43life because and that's just GNA help us right because if we book that band again now they have now they've been on a stage in front of 300 people and they will and they will start to draw because you know like because the other band they they were direct support but it's right you got to put put back the put aside the go be willing to not not be that head headliner the next time and like be a direct supp or even be an opener you know but that's just you know you headline this room but you open for skinny puppy you know that's oh

43:09yeah we always use skinny puppy I don't know why we're using skinny puppy she Health maybe or like or you know like cross oh gosh crosses they were one of the great bands I saw like like yeah these bands that are like selling out big theaters and stuff like that so yeah well how does um like a smaller band um that's starting out like how would they get onto a bill with a larger band well now are you talking like the the big like you know like the thousand plus uh venues would you say or are you just talking like you know like an upand

43:43cominging band that wants to play Let's I'll use one of our local venues El Corone for example that they've got two rooms one that holds like 200 the other one holds about 800 um although I don't believe Dana Sims who owns that venue he tells me 800 every time and I ask him every time I'm like really like it just doesn't seem like if he said I'm like okay but yeah um like in terms of like those sorts of venues which we call our independent venues are independently owned venues across like the major cities um the rooms that hold like 100 to like conservatively about like 500 or

44:12so like that's just a matter of getting out there and getting yourself known because there are a lot of bands that um they're working on the music but they haven't made it known that they're out there we've got an artist I'm going to give them a a little boost hot hail out of Seattle um they're just out there they are online putting their music out there and they're new they're they're a legacy performer who has industry experience but they have just launched a new a new persona a new music project they're getting on um where they can opening slots um recently a band dropped at the last last minute I

44:50reached out to them and I said hey and it was not even our show it was for another I just saw there was a need they were available within hours to go so it's just being available um you know to where if a talent buyer is like and you see this a lot where like openers will drop or somebody drops from a lineup and you need to just whoever's local can you be available within five hours to get down for loading with your with your whole rig of everything and just so having that flexibility and you kind of need to be when you're an upcoming

45:17artist I would say you need you could be like no you know unless you know like we all have day jobs right if it's going to really like it's going to impede upon the day job stuff like that but just being available getting your stuff out there where you're known to um the local talent buyers the local um uh promoters I'm going to do a quick plug for if you're in the Northwest there's something called the Northwest artist database this is like you know Vancouver BC um Idaho Washington Oregon region um Ian Cheshire who used to run take warning presents he took a step down

45:50from being independent promoter but now is exclusively a talent buyer for a few venues in the region um he started this amazing thing called the northwest artist database and it's just a place for artists to just register their bands name of the band The genre how do we find you on band camp where's your your social media and to where Talent buyers um Bookers promoters can go and find and Source artists and so just getting yourself out there um back in the day when I first started doing this I spent like one Friday night like during the pandemic just going down the rabbit hole on band

46:20camp um just like created a search Seattle goth bands B whatever and and found all these bands we've never heard of They Don't Really promote their last known thing on social media was like years ago but there's actually still active and then some of the Bands I found were no longer together and it was so just like being you got to put yourself out there um even if you only have one song yeah like one song at spot by just get yourself out there so that way people know who you are and they can you so true like when I'm when I'm putting together shows in cities that we

46:56haven't played and I'm looking for other bands to play with um I've had that issue where I go to band camp and I do a search and and and finding the bands that are active and playing live too that's a whole another thing so yes you find those gems and you go to like their Instagram or their Facebook and you see like the last activity was like in 2019 and you're like yep yeah so yeah that's that's what I would say and then but then like you know also like like and so I actually will feed um so some of these bigger shows in Seattle that are getting

47:33booked at like uh um the Showbox venues which hold over a thousand we've got a good friend in town who he does Talent buying with AEG and he's hit me up a few times wondering about a local and I'm like you know these guys are those guys and when when he's feeding those locals to a really big tour coming through who have like major representation it's usually going to be very last minute um and and they have to make the it's going to be to the discretion of the tour and at that level you really need to have your stuff buttoned up as a local so they I would

48:06imagine they're going on to see like some Legacy performance that you've actually been doing some shows that you you're putting out music you have engagement on social media so it's like it's really aggressive like you really need to be getting yourself out there um and and putting stuff out there because you can have some good music on Spotify but if you haven't performed live yet or on band camp and your music's out there like we have you haven't had live time yet um so I think you know like get a few shows under your belt even if it means just doing like a divy spot and

48:34whatever like just like a locals lineup or even just doing like a um open I don't know like just making sure that people start to know who you are to where they can see like okay you've got some Bonafide stage time and and you're you're starting to do like the things that make sense to get you on the stage like this so yeah absolutely like the starting part is I I feel like maybe the hardest part right but then yes yes yes yeah absolutely it's a it's a lot of work but I think you have to do all that um all that like put in the like what is

49:08it the elbow what's the word I'm looking for but like basically put in all that work on the front in the front end of it all so that way it'll pay off dividends later um because not everybody's gonna like be found on YouTube I hate to have to say it like you know like you can like Live It Up leave it up to chance but just and I wish we lived in an age I always think about like back in the day like where people just like didn't have like before the internet and you just put like posters on Telephone polls and like that was the one way you found out

49:33about band you're like well it's gonna be at that poll whatever's on that pole I'm gonna go to that show because what else like especially in Seattle right like I'm not from here but I would imagine they're like like Lane Staley for five bucks at the offramp or whatever it was back in like those like the grung years of Seattle or something um and you're like I guess I'm going to that because that's the thing to do tonight like but it wasn't like you had to like figure out which platform but now you got to do it because you know where are all your people that you want to find and you

50:02know somebody did say recently it's it's we're kind of getting back to the analog where we need to go back to flying with like this Mass Exodus from meta but we'll see TBD on that so um what like what would be a way like that you like getting approached for a band that's approaching you for the first time I would say if you go to any of our um and this is well I guess so if you're not in social media it's kind of tough but like um when people go to our social media you'll see where it says like for booking to email us and I really would

50:33love if that if it could all be funnel through social through our email because got the email very organized I can you know but I've got right now where you know folks will message me on both our professional yes insta but like also my like private one and so then it's like and I've talked with AET Velasquez who's a talent buyer at the coffin club and she's like I will not respond because it's like it's basically it's like you where is that message I know they messaged me somewhere where is it and I was just thinking about this as I like you emailed me and I messaged you on

51:04instant I was like uh uh uh I messed up but like trying to like get it funneled all through like email so to keep it all right there buttoned up um I'm guilty as charge I will sometimes ping a band on Insta because sometimes people don't check email every day but we are like on social media usually almost every day so if you see a message come in on your you know Instagram or whatever you like might be you might respond to it quicker but usually what I'll do is like hey cool let's do a show could you follow up on our email here or what is your email

51:34I will follow up with you on email to get this all buttoned up so we have it somewhere because messages you know obviously everybody knows can get lost buried um in in the you know in in Instagram and Facebook and all that kind of thing but I I would say and usually when if I'm out and I'm talking to some I give him a card and it you scan it it brings you right to our you know link tree that has our you know our email and stuff like that so they can find us that way which I I prefer um and if bands do

52:01reach out to just it's you know it's kind of like um inquiring about a job where you want to send your EPK and all the things and you know your target dates if you are trying to tour through like hey let's do a show okay cool you know can you send over your you know your press kit and your music links and when you trying to tour through and like so that way we can just start to really hone in on something and um get that lined up and stuff like that yeah yeah I mean most people I I talk to tell me that they prefer emails

52:30on occasion people will say oh I I prefer Instagram but most people say something similar like they prefer the email you know you can really keep an email like categorized and organized and I've got like folders for every um like for conversations and for shows and that way it's like you can see those new emails when they come in you can flag them and all that so it's just yeah that way like you know because I I definitely don't want to miss any messages you know especially like in in in the world of social media where like a lot of messages might go to like your other

52:59inbox or whatever you know that can happen like oh my gosh like there was one we got I didn't realized I get funneled into the like the other inbox I was like oh my gosh like you know so yeah yeah I I think as well like um you know like you were mentioning like when you get a message like having your links your EPK like that sort of thing absolutely yeah just having um I worked with um they had a beautiful EPK but um band neoria um and uh you know love them oh my gosh um Angel and gustu they're from Sweden and they now live in

53:36Portland Oregon and I'm a graphic designer by trade and so I always got like that like two cents I have to throw in in addition to like it it should have this content but it should also look like this and so I like I just gave them like some constructive feedback just to like because I wanted them to have like the best like aesthetically like looking too like press kit right like you know readable and stuff like that and so just cuz like I they think their music is amazing I care about them but like but having like a really buttoned up because that's like you're telling a talent

54:02buyer a promoter a Booker like that's that's your like their first impression of you and that shows that you're have a professional even if you're like brand new and got like two songs you have everything buttoned up and it could show you've had five shows and like the statistics from that we've opened up for this we had a opening slot at that Festival but whatever at least it's like there and because if not you're basically what you're doing is you're giving the the talent buyer the booker the promoter homework like cool I guess I will go and look you up and and maybe I have

54:35time but a lot of these Talent buyers do not have time they've got a million requests coming in for shows and they're not going to take and hate to have to say it just the way it is um to go and research you and your band and and of course like other bands they know that are coming through like the birthday massacr is coming to Seattle like we know who they are right like you know you're a brand new band like you better have it all like it's like applying for a job like here is me in a snapshot and a pretty little package you know all the links are here

55:05you know with it maybe stylized that like alas for example very stylized look of the band like you know You' you'd expect like that EPK right it's gonna have like it's gonna have that Vibe it's gonna be like that's your persona you know and so like I love when you see like a band has a little bit of stylized um like they like EPK is a little stylized has you know or even if it has like some oh my gosh like some press blur you know like some you know which usually at that point now you have like a PR person who's doing that but like

55:31just that kind of stuff it's like a little like a holistic snapshot of the artist it's very helpful yeah for sure it's it's something that like I think if you're just starting out you might not even realize like how like like you were saying like minimizing the work for the person that you're sending it to so they don't have to do like minimizing it so that they can actually just look at it and be like oh okay you know yep it's like thing of a job application honestly like where like the recruiters or the you know HR is going through all of those and they're just weeding through

56:04them right you know we all know this how how this works they're just like all right what makes it through the first sorting kind of thing like you know any think of like any major concert venue that's getting like um inquiries from bands like they're just getting tons and even like independent promoters like you know get several requests so just to make sure that it's just all there so you're not giving more work uh giving them more work um it's like oh this this is like a first impression and what it's going to be like to work with you if we do like if we do bring you to town on on

56:32a concert so yeah so sea is asking uh what do you have a dream band that you would love to book and work with oh I don't know I feel like I shouldn't say that because then it's like oh them why not us if you're willing to share and that's okay if you well well it can never happen because Peter steel passed away oh typo is like my favorite band of all um I guess yes if if yeah if he was still here that would be it we got kind of close to that we we booked uh two years ago now um sarim shock who um uh

57:19very much have the that kind of Gothic metal and we booked them in October too it was just like ah was the perfect show it was and they brought their own like props for stage which came straight from like a Halloween superstore um but they very much have that sound and and seraphim actually did shows with typo negative back in the day so that was kind of like like the degrees of separation kind of like really got right there um but I I think that that one was kind of like a dream for me like when I actually was able to get in touch with

57:52Charles from the band and who's like just a love human being um and like get them on a stage and you know maybe they don't sell out Arenas but like in my world that was just like holy smokes and they were just lovely to work with and it was just that yeah that was and he and he loves dogs I mean anybody who like loves dogs we bring through town I'm just any animal lover I'm just like that's just like another you know um but yeah I would say that was that was probably GH I don't know it's tough can I get back to on that word yes yeah

58:26might have to like think about that because I love so many bands right now you know we we've had honestly so many bands where I was like oh my God this is the band like I can retire now we booked this band we booked we booked we booked olly Ry a few years ago who he's he's booking um direct now he's gonna be in in Seattle actually um on Monday we're gonna go see him um but when we booked Oli ride who um if you're not familiar he's this synth pop Legend out of London was he's younger so he's not like a legend legend but he's he does he's the

58:52vocalist for fm84 which is a huge retro synth wve band and um when we actually worked with him I was like oh my gosh that's like that was kind of like okay we're getting into like this next level of artists where it's we're no longer just doing like local shows anymore um you know and he's just like this powerhouse on stage and so um we we actually when we had him through town we did a whole um at a friend's um place we did a little artist Suare with them and the touring band parallels that was with them and and um we just it was kind of

59:25really cool to like like like holy crap we're like mingling with artists and having like drinks and and and like throwing a party for them before their concert tonight so it was like that was kind of like that was like another one it was kind of like holy smokes you know I had to pinch myself that we were doing that but yeah there there might be one I think I think typo negative would be that though but that'll just obviously never happened um unfortunately um CJ was actually asking um what you considered to be the Mount Rushmore of metal and Industrial so they're not industrial but I mean we

59:55it's like they're metal so I was like typo negative might be fall kind of into that yeah I would say that they yeah yeah they were like my OG um who like that was just like what I who I listened to forever as a kid and um yeah back in those days I really got into um Life of Agony around that time um because I was like a you know like a angsty teenager like growing up in New York as we all were and like uh so I I feel like to see Life of Agony um on stage which they almost came through with with Keith Caputo as Mina Caputo

1:00:32which I I've recently read that Keith Mina is gonna transition back to Keith Caputo apparently but they were just like you know like I just like listen to them over and over and over again um and so I think they would be another one they were meant to come through Seattle several years ago but I believe I can't remember why that tour like several dates of the tour were cancelled or something like that so I was that was one I was like really looking forward to um and would you know I wouldn't even care like if like I I don't need to work with that band like I just want to go

1:01:00see them live you know um just to be like oh my gosh like like 16 year-old Mia is like screaming right now yeah that that was like that was back like that was like the hard that was like the New York hardcore scene back in those days where like like you know mosh pits were very dangerous like oh my God yeah yeah but um I one band that I recently have well not recently but have gotten into um they wouldn't say that they're like um indust like Gothic industrial but like I've gotten into like um uh Swedish metal band katatonia who I've seen recently they're more like melodic so

1:01:36that's and that's another one I know will never book but that's a band where I'll go and see and if I see like if I we work with a band that has that sort of influence in their music but they're still like industrial I'm like that's I'm like okay this is like next level for me so yeah and Ali brings a lot of those bands through like um angels and Agony that have come through and um uh he was supposed uh I don't know if he's bringing rer sand through but like bands like that that come through those are definitely like that have that sort of

1:02:03like I don't know if you want to call it like melodic vocals that kind of parallel with like that sort of like metal or industrial sort of sound I think that's that's always for me like a yeah oh yeah I love the combinations I love when you hear like the different influences and Inspirations like that absolutely yep so uh question question is um if somebody um wants to get started in music promotion um like how would they started well I would say you know being being present in your scene um is a huge thing so like I've talked with people recently who like I want to book shows

1:02:45and I'm like cool yeah absolutely you know like um uh I don't know if like the way we started by like just going out to shows and like being around shows a lot but I feel like that's a really that's a key part of it like I would I don't think you especially I've observed in Seattle is like you can't you really need to show face in your community and and it's probably this way everywhere else Nashville La whatever but like just being a part of your community being a positive force in your community showing that you're out there supporting people know who you are there's not all of a

1:03:19sudden like when we first started people like what's yes music productions um and we're like as we're out there we're just out there anyway and people are starting to see and they're putting a face with the name of the brand so being out there getting to know people in your community starting to like to get to know your the bands but there's a lot of like learning to do so if you can actually get a few like I was go back to saying Ali of mechanismus who kind of mentored us through the way teaching us like what to do what not to do like here's how like

1:03:46we didn't know that like you know a show is not just like going there and you know um handing out flyers and when I tell people in promoe like I'm like I'm not like that guy on the Vegas Strip who's just giving you like there's a lot of like logistical work that goes into producing a show where you're kind of like the glue of the whole thing and I've actually heard this from somebody recently where you're communicating with um the production managers the talent buyer photographers DJ support bands uh tours tour managers booking agents and you're kind of like if this is your show you need to be like very well organized

1:04:19and being able to like all those moving pieces be able to communicate to the sound engineer the requirements of the touring band and communicate back to the tour like so there's a lot of like it's it's more than meets the eye it's not just you know finding a date and and letting it Roll by itself it really takes um you have to kind of like nurture it along the way and and people will rely on that promoter and we've heard horror stories from bands where you know like you know we worked with promoter and they weren't even there and you know and stuff like that and so it's

1:04:49it's really like being present there's been few times when we were not at our own shows like when people ask us like oh are you going to be at your I'm like yeah like the only time we've not been there has been like sickness um or I've had like military duty so I I couldn't be there um but like aside from that you know like it's this this is our baby we're going to be there to make sure it all goes smoothly so you're really need to be like it's you have to kind of take a look in the mirror it's it's more than just like you

1:05:16know finding a date and and and and send you know getting a band in touch with the venue and saying all right bye like you know creating a flyer it's it's a lot of leg work it's a lot of um you know intricacies of social media marketing and getting to know your local talent buyers like to where they know who the heck you are because you go knocking on their door right away and they're like who the heck are you like you're gonna bring us you on a Friday night um we've never heard of this band we've never heard of you that's a Primo night why should I give you that

1:05:44night because I how don't I know what it's gonna do and we've definitely had Talent buyers like well what's the legacy of that band in Seattle what was their ticket sales last time because I'm not going to give them a prime night you know um so just building rapport with your local talent buyers so it's it's it's something that doesn't happen overnight unless people already know you and you're coming from like another part of the industry like oh yeah so and so who used to run that now was doing the talent buying there or is the promoter here or whatever like okay we know that

1:06:09guy or gal but like if you're just a noname who wants to fill together shows it takes time to get to know everybody and then they start to build it's like the earn trust okay we've seen you out we've started to get to know you and now we've got certain venues in town I request a date that day or the next day I get I get the answered back yeah we've you this date or whatever but in the beginning it was like crickets and Tumble weeds just hearing back from venues so yeah yeah so I would say um maybe just getting in cahoots with your

1:06:36like another promoter in town and and I certainly if I see somebody who's Earnest and and I'm not like the biggest hot shot in town but if I see somebody who's Earnest who really wants to do some things I absolutely will speak on that person's behalf to a talent buyer like hey you know there's a new promoter in town who wants to book this band I've gotten to know them they're doing a really good thing FYI and I'll make that connection and then pass them along so just to like help that you know so but I think it's just it's about who you know and like and starting to get out there

1:07:05and put your face out there and get to know your get to know everybody you got to do it you can't be an introvert yeah yeah yeah absolutely I I I think that actually holds true as well for artists like just you know being present in your own live music Community like going and supporting people um and not does for the sake of supporting it I mean the way you are speaking to the shows that you've been been to it's like you actually love the music so like finding the things that speak to you and finding the music that speaks to you I think is key yes yes absolutely I love

1:07:42when I see like other artists who are at like another show and they're just there having like a great time and like like dancing and and and I'm like yeah that's like that's what it's all about you know like supporting each other and like sometimes it'll be like a show that's like a like a low turnout but like like I'll look at it's like you know half the people there are like other bands like other local bands and I'm yeah you know like this is awesome or like a show that's like on a holiday randomly like oh like you know like like let's go support this person you know and like

1:08:09we're all just like I didn't have anything going on okay cool I me either like let's go like support this person or like at least we'll stop here before we go to family dinner or whatever it is you know like so yeah yeah just um I think yeah that's that's that sometimes can be the tough part too is like being out and being present because that cost money in this day and age so just kind of like like here's what can I here's what I can afford to do within my means to get out there and get my face known out there in the community and and um

1:08:34build a good rapport and and that I'm present and uh and I support you know uh things and stuff but yeah yeah it's it's it takes it takes time yeah it definitely doesn't happen overnight I would say um and that that was the case for us but if I think if the work gets put in then um and it and it shows then I think like something can happen definitely for sure well you mentioned that you guys started in 2021 correct well it was actually like I think it was like in 2019 when we were having conversation about it and then like the first I don't

1:09:12want to call it a show we ever did but it was like friends of ours cover bands were doing like a goth Night Show and we just kind of like I don't even know if we did that show I think it was more like it was like okay you guys can like be there or I don't know I I everything before 2020 I'm like I'm like is like a like a bad dream I'm like what what do we even do like but then like 2020 we're going to launch the thing and pandemic happened and instead um we did some joint um uh we did some joint um live

1:09:39stream music festivals with mechanismus to raise money for shuttered music venues in town and at the time we did for two venues one was the old Highline bar in Seattle which is where mechanismus used to do their shows and their first ever festival and the other one was Al Corone so that was kind of like when we were starting was like collaborating with mechanismus in 2020 for some live stream music festivals which were amazing they were fun Ali brought in bands from all over the globe you could because we're all doing this from our living rooms and um and then in 2021 was our first ever we did one

1:10:09collab show with mechanismus I remember it was twin tribes and um wing tips it was like mechanismus and yes music presents and it was like still masks unless you're drinking and sitting down and jumping on one leg and rubbing like you know the whole remember combo like oh yes that combo is like that was we're in those times at that time and then um and then we did our like I mentioned earlier our first ever on our own show was the hollow's live stream in um I'm sorry hollow's um album release um in Seattle at a venue that no longer exists well the bar still exists but

1:10:43their live music space doesn't exist anymore um and that was 2021 like August I want to say and then so that was like a handful of shows that year and then in 2022 we did like 3 two shows um so it kind of like and then 2023 did like 34 shows and then we realized like okay we did that little period of saturation like everybody knows who the heck we are and then 2024 was when we kind of like leveled out to where like all right what's what's really feasible like maybe like two a month three if we need to yeah it's just it's a lot you know so

1:11:19but yeah that's yeah so I would say like 20 21 was our first ever like inperson show and then like 2022 was like our first like full-blown year of like double digit shows so yeah would you say that's the year that you were really finding your flow and like really understanding like how all the moving Parts really worked like learning like what's in advance and you know like how to appropriately communicate that stuff and um like learning what you know bands need in terms of like writers and all that kind of stuff and when to communicate that to the venues and and uh you know and we're always we're

1:11:57still learning obviously but like um just really like learning how the full operation of a show Works how soon in advance do I need to know that you want to do a show here so that way we have adequate time to promote it um to find a venue like we wait too late like we don't have places anymore and especially in the aftermath of the pandemic when everybody was touring and like every room was booked up everywhere um and stuff like that so getting that like well in advance getting your date locked on like people laugh and I'm like oh yeah we've been we've got we've got date right now held

1:12:262026 um and that's just the reality of international visas right now um we've got you know I tell people like six plus months is usually the the going rate for like getting stuff booked three maybe but like you just want to have that adquate time but like learning that those intricacies too and and then learning also like what we could take on and having learning to say no like we joke right now we're like like we're kind of like no music productions well because like because at the time it was like yes yes you get a show and you get a show like they were like oh my God

1:13:00like we can't do this because we both have day jobs and like we have to be able to do it well and if we if we take on too much then we can't really do it well and so now we've gotten to a point where it's like okay you on a tour and you on a tour through around the same day and neither one of you have like carried support with you could we could we get you both in that same in the same room on the same day instead of you both doing your own shows in town and so if you've got like some lateral limits of

1:13:24um the date you're hitting Seattle and lo and behold more often than not it kind of works out so I've been able to like marry up some so if you see some of our lineups coming up with four plus bands that's why is because I've gotten multiple requests and I don't want to add more shows but I want to like I still want those bands to come through and how can we all put down our swords you're not going to all get the headliner guarantee but this might be like a really cool show and our fans will attend so I've learned that too how i' I learned a lot about our fan base if

1:13:53we've got five shows in one month people AR like well they're all different bands like no they're just seeing that as five different yes music shows and so they're not going to go to all of them because we're it's too much it's overwhelming because there's other concerts coming through there's other club nights there's you know other stuff they want to do wine tasting haunted attractions whatever they do you know Netflix binge you know and so by having like you know having like like less um less frequent shows they see it as now like okay this is like we're going to go to that one show because it's that one or two yes

1:14:21music shows this month so I've like learned those things too along the way and so if you're a band and I'm asking you to like flex your date a little bit to like can you do this day instead because so and so is coming through and let let's marry it up onto one bill then that's why so it's not because I don't want you to make money it's because I think this is going to work the best for our city and then people will show up we had like five bands one night um at the fun house in Seattle and I was like oh my God like No One's Gonna show up and

1:14:47people showed up early and they stayed for the whole thing and I merged like three different tours that's amazing and I was like yes and I actually one one of the bands was Miss Misery out of Chicago and I got a tattoo from the lead singer while he was in town because he did it was just a great that was a great weekend that one right there but yeah so like learning all of these learning when your bands are touring and if they have a tattoo in band no I'm kidding but kind of serious but yeah like learning along the way like how to like really find that like

1:15:18sweet spot in terms of like what's what's a good amount of shows like on a monthly basis let's say and and how to properly execute them and I think we're still learning you know like yeah we're all in life always just trying to get better at our thing we do but you know yeah yeah so I don't I think now now we're like slightly seasoned but I'm still learning still learning oh absolutely yeah I feel like I'm learning something every day I'm learning something right now so yeah yeah I mean it's like uh you know what you were saying about the flexibility we've we've gotten on to amazing shows because of

1:15:55being able to be flexible sometimes we are locked in like we're we're already committed to certain shows on the day before and the day after but like if you have that flexibility man those shows can be amazing when it works out yes and you know and I've talked with bands before who said well they they wouldn't be able to take their show on the road because of like maybe it was like their lighting setup and I was like oh oh honey like you have to figure that out you can't not tour because of your lighting set up like that's I mean I know it's it's like I know it may be a

1:16:23huge part of your um and not to say tour not like this Global tour even a cross country tour but like go hit a pocket of your corner of the US do do a little dance down the West Coast or something you know so that way people in your general area can get eyes on you on a stage you know because you've got fans in like these random Pockets but if you're like letting your lighting design you know prevent you from getting out there and it's okay no one's going to judge you like oh well I've seen their Lighting on YouTube like no they're just

1:16:49glad to see you on a stage you know so like I think bands need to like sometimes be to like give and take like what what do we absolutely need if we're going to get out there and be able to take on some of these these gigs and get oursel on a stage and get oursel on the road and it might mean having to like curtail some of your full-blown live experience but that's okay you'll eventually get to a place where once you do all this dance and and can afford to bring your lighting designer on tour with you and um and or play a festival

1:17:18with your full-blown experience then your B your fans will start to know that they'll start to realize like oh wait till you see them in their Hometown or wait till you see them at like dark force Fest you know like they'll understand it's not like so I think bands need to have that like you say like have that flexibility to be able to not not to say that you need to have like a road ready kit like oh you need us get get the kit we're go you get the backpacks we're going you know but like it's um yeah just having that you know like being able to just realize when an

1:17:45opportunity um we had a band oh I felt so bad there was a huge tour that came through and I knew about this tour over a year ago it was booked in town I don't want to like drop any names but at the last minute one our one of our this is like a sellout concert one of our local bands got asked to open at the very last minute like the week of the concert and they just couldn't do it because it's a Duo and the other person has like actual work commitments and they just couldn't do it because of work and I was like man

1:18:15so that's like there you talk about like the the the extreme circumstance we like like like you know like that perfect storm World it actually wouldn't work out but they they kind of are that band that is a available sometimes so yeah so it's you know just having that like Flex it's just the way it is I think when you're up and coming and unfortunately yeah yeah yeah for sure I I do think like speaking to your um like wisdom about um being flexible and and uh especially with your stage show um you know we we played dark force fest last year and we were the first band on on

1:18:50for Saturday we very first band um it's like 3 p.m. isn't it or is it I think one we were on at one and and we had played in Ohio the night before so we did an overnight Drive um like got there just in time for loaden at 10:00 a.m. um you know we didn't even get a sound check because the sound was running late um they they were sound checking the headlining bands so we had to just like get on stage and play um you know just get up there and play you know fueled by coffee thanks to our wonderful people you know that brought us coffee um and

1:19:22it was awesome like the community was awesome and like they were just they wanted to just have the experience of of the whole festival of the live music and I think if you're just like willing to just remember that where where you're like okay I'm just going to surrender to the fact that it might not be like the perfect thing um in my mind like the perfect setup like I think if you kind of put that aside like it's like really like when it comes down to It's the Music it comes down to the music you know yep y the fans don't care not like oh that

1:19:55doesn't sound perfect whatever they just want that live experience y yeah the energy of the show and the music and yeah so many musicians like get wrapped around the axle they're like oh my God it didn't sound I'm like your your audience are not the judges from juliard or like or whatever like America's like you know best um live music or um music school is it's like these are people who just are they're just glad to see on a stage and they maybe flew all the way across the country to be here so they're just and you didn't get your sound check but at think you all are professionals

1:20:26and I know you can do this like if you don't get a full hour long set soundcheck and I know you're like a little nervous and all that but like it'll be fine like and I think at the end of the day the crowd is just and and half the crowd hate have to say it they they they don't have the ear for you know sometimes and and I've heard pitchy bands and and the crowd was blown away and you know and I'm not gonna say anything but I'm just like that's who the audience is and and as soon as the band can realize that they can kind of

1:20:54take a step back and say like okay this doesn't need to be like the most perfect scenario where we got here on time and we had all the you know and just be able to roll with it and and have fun with it and I think that can really like just change the whole experience for the band and make it less stressful and less worrisome and to where like you know they're apprehensive about doing that kind of thing um which opens more doors if they do do that thing so I would say yeah yeah absolutely um I I wanted to ask actually like you know you've you've been um like

1:21:26consistently growing yes music um I I was just wondering like do you have like kind of a vision for the future or are you feeling like you're kind of you know are you are you happy with where you are are you envisioning some like something different in the future no it would be it would be I mean we've done so we've we've already got a festival which is it's a it's a local Festival it's conservative it's regional bands it's a two-day Festival that we do in collaboration with the coffin Club down in Portland that showcases North West artists um so I feel like that was a

1:21:56huge milestone to be able to do that I think um I think of things like having um like I've got a buddy who like you guys should have a stage at like Capitol Hill block party which is like a huge Regional music festival in Seattle it happens in Capitol Hill Seattle and they they bring you know like Chapel rone like headlined it and um there's it's a kind of like electronic Indie and and dark cheese May played it and um so to have like a like a yes stage I think would be cool um like the the these are things that I haven't actually taken

1:22:26steps to like I know the steps it's like meeting the people to get the things in motion so I know like that needs to happen but I haven't taken those steps yet um but like that would be kind of cool to to be able to book a even larger venue like getting into some of the rooms that are like 500 plus um so bringing bands through um who you know who still want to work with an independent promoter who are kind of making it kind of into those like larger rooms would be uh super cool uh you know like I was was I talking about

1:22:57the other day I was like like yes music presents where we've got like we've got like touring um concerts um like maybe artist management under like the the yes label like someday I don't know I don't know if that's like super lofty but like I think it's like when if I like I don't know like if I become independently wealthy somehow out of nowhere and I can like quit my day job but I love my day job like I can just like Focus like you know 24 hours a day into like getting that to the next level like maybe that could happen but um I think that would

1:23:26be kind of cool is to and and then the question is like would we take on other genres of music you know I don't know because like you know Live Nation the big ugly conglomerate you know they book more than just you know rock bands You know they book everything so but yeah I think that could be kind of cool and like to have staff who you know like know like can do like do all the things like would be kind of cool but like yeah we'll see you know I think I think right now the most it's kind of like weight loss you don't

1:23:56want to like too much like you take on too much and you're you're going to fail at that goal right so you just want to like like the little things that we can achieve so I think booking that the the um the two-day Festival down in Portland with in conjunction with the coffin Club was kind of like a big milestone and just like seeing if we can set sights un like larger artists and and possibly getting ourselves like a stage at a regional Festival I think would be kind of be kind of interesting because and that then when we do that now we're like exposing ourselves to like a whole bunch

1:24:22of people who have never been to our concerts before because those people are just going to those festivals or whatever so stay tuned on that please don't sit on the edge of your seat but um yeah I think just like taking that having the time to sit down and like do the investigative research to make those connections to see if that's even like if that's something that's feasible I think that would be kind of cool like down the road so yeah or just I think right now like just selling out more concerts let's let's take it let's dial it back even like a further T like a few more sold out shows

1:24:50under our belt I think would be kind of cool to just you know like have and because it's it works it works it's a win-win for everybody like the fans are like oh my God it was an amazing concert and then like the bands are like oh my God I sold out a concert and we're like oh my God we had a s that show so it's like it's a win-win across the board so yeah oh absolutely absolutely I can see all the things though all the things that you're listing like yes I can see it yeah absolutely I mean I think and then also like yes yes music will be in

1:25:20every city too I think I forgot that one it'll be like you know like yes Music Nashville and like yes music NYC and like the yes music DC yeah it works right you know it's funny cuz when I first started um communicating with you I assumed that you were like in multiple cities because that you have that kind of presence you you really do and so and I remember you were like well not Tash we're we're just in Seattle for now but I was like I could see this in the future so you know could we you know and I've certainly talked with um artists

1:25:53from different you know we go to the festivals right and we get to talk with all the bands from all the different cities they're like well we don't have anybody in on our city XYZ who's doing this kind of thing or or we do but it's hit miss or whatever so like certainly um there's definitely pockets of the country that don't have like we're we're so fortunate to have in Seattle we've got multiple um promoter production companies like obviously mechanismus that does their Annual Festival but like um hofit booking in Seattle does they do a lot of like death Rock and metal and like dabbling some postpunk goth Rock

1:26:23shows and like um and then we've got like dance night like there's just and then um false prophet hasn't done stuff in a while but when they were doing things they were like bringing some great like the first time i' ever saw normal bias was a false profit show and just so we we actually have like several in the city of Seattle so I think we're like pretty fortunate frankly um where other cities like might have no one that's really like an independent promoter who's like reing in all the you know so um but yeah yeah maybe finding like those Pockets across the US that

1:26:50don't have you know a presence um I think like way back when Yash and I started like our when we were we she bought like a URL I we're like should it be like yes music seattle.com or yes music productions.com and we're were like well maybe we should keep at Productions that gives us flexibility not to pige and hole ourselves into Seattle I was like yes Although our email is yes music Seattle gmail.com so I don't know well it's a start it's a start yes yes yeah I think that's like um well I mean you know like with any goal likeing it up into like the smaller

1:27:26bite-sized like what are my steps to get there you know it makes it doable yeah and folks ask us like you know if we would want to book shows in like surrounding cities of you know Everett or Tacoma which if you know from here these are cities like 45 minutes to the north and south of us and you know we have to take a look at like no you know what I want to do is make Seattle really good and and if we can't book shows here send those bands as overflow to the surrounding cities so that those cities can start to build up their own scenes

1:27:57and also I you know I kind of don't want to drive like hate to have to say it like we want to keep like we want to keep us in our backyard and and and a lot of times when you see us like especially if it's a week night show we are running straight from our day jobs to go to load in with the bands and and it's just logistically for us it's just not really attainable to get on the road and and spend an hour in traffic to go up you know down to a neighboring City so what I'd rather do is just start to feed bands down that

1:28:21way and I've even told bands like maybe next time you come through don't hit Seattle again but hit like Tacoma Washington which there's a there's a pretty decent goth scene like building it's not if not it's already there um and so that way you hit some of those kids who didn't have the means to drive up to Seattle and and if you have fans in Seattle who like love you enough they'll drive down you know and so that way that area is growing too and so it kind of like takes and also you know I'll tell a brand like you already here too soon maybe go hit TOA or like go hit

1:28:49um Bellingham Washington which is up near the Canadian border you know so that way they're getting some love up there but so you kind of were here four months ago and maybe we need to like share the love you know that kind of a thing so yeah so we'll I think for right now and I've told people I'm like you know I I think we'll just stay here but absolutely if if folks wants to start to take like bands to other neighboring cities like you know here yeah heck yeah you know oh yeah so yeah Washington has a lot of great places to play that we've loved playing

1:29:16you know yeah and there's there's definitely some pockets and it's like it's kind of like that thing where um you know we talk about like spok hand Washington out where electr grave Ryan Hollingsworth and his crew on everything um smaller town good thing because they are the they've got the like Monopoly on the goth shows in town because like it's it's them or nothing which and that's okay like you know like all those kids are gonna come out to that show because like that's like the thing in town and then therefore it's a guaranteed thing for the artists so you're going to get all 200 goth kids at at that show that

1:29:46night if you go to that town but you know in a bigger metrop Metropolis like New York City you know like what are the million things going on on Friday night and in Manhattan or whatever you know or Brooklyn even alone like yeah you know so like hoping that they come to this one you know like so yeah so I think like and people have found that like that's just you know hitting those Pockets can be really um beneficial too so yeah yeah so yeah for right now long story long even longer is like we're gonna we're gonna stay focused on Seattle um as it were but

1:30:15like you know I never say never I'm really looking forward to seeing like how things unfold because I feel like it's it's always very cool to see um at least what you're sharing out on socials like I love seeing your shares about the different shows that you're at um not just your own but just all the different shows and it's just like it's I feel like you know it it feels like the Seattle Community is thriving in the music Community yes we definitely are there's like new dance nights that are popping up um like a bunch of us went and saw um mulat Doma just came through town sold out concert

1:30:53oh so good like I I honestly feel like they are the new to pesh mode like they they really came into their own their new album is just really has defined who they are as artists their sound has morphed since they first started and but anyway we all made our way over to this new d uh dance night that's happening and it was just popping and I was just like this is cool like to see like these new nights that are popping up and just like a lot of different opportunities um we've got a a local guy in town who's got to be a good friend who runs a dark

1:31:20Seattle event calendar and it just jam-packed with stuff going on so it's there's really you know if people seek it out there's just a ton of stuff going on um whether it be like the dance nights huge concerts coming through smaller independent concerts um new bands like divy shows on a Tuesday like you know like you know midsize shows on a Saturday like we're going on on a Monday like it's just there's there's no like shortage of like kind of cool dark kind of music things going on in this town right now and then we've got the big what do they call it the um

1:31:54Industrial Music summer camp they're referring to mechanismus coming up in like a couple months so yeah the homecoming whatever they call it yeah all the we all the German industrial uh poor Ali oh my gosh it was like last year we were at like it was like night three or whatever it was um for mechanismus festival and we it was like el cor Zone in town and like I just I know Ali's head is on a swivel through that whole thing but it's such a family affair right and it's such a big part of our like Cornerstone of our Industrial Music community in in Seattle and people come in but like I

1:32:29remember being at El Corone for like third night I think and I saw a German industrial band funker vote I was standing at like stage left um near the access point to like backstage and I'm like watching whoever I think it was like dstr Daniel Meyer was on stage and I happen to like look over and glance to like backstage and I saw like the guys in um funker vote like on a broom go riding by backstage they were like they took like the brooms and they're just like dancing and because they are like hij Jinks like un like they're on stage they're like serious

1:32:58and they deliver the music Precision they are nothing but hij Jinks and so just getting to see I texted Ali and I was like I was like I was like funer vot just went by in a broom backstage he's sh he came running he like beine across that venue like you know just like to see all like you know and so when so like the basically the moral of that story is is that like you know like when that event happens that is a huge Family Affair and it's between like the the hydes and the jokes and the the the guys are running like a Central Command

1:33:29Center at the at the crocodile where they run that Festival primarily and you know they're like you know they got food for days and it's it's a family operation and so just to see like it be like a Community Family Affair when that event happens like that's the Cornerstone of our um Gothic industrial scene here in Seattle and so I I know that like that's like a big part of why we've got such a um I would say a pretty robust uh scene in the city is because of like that like sort of family oriented community that they created like 15 plus years ago now so yeah yeah

1:33:59yeah so if if anybody goes to that Festival um there funker vote is playing it again I believe this year and just be on the lookout for hij Jinks because those guys are they are a hoot let me you yeah yeah yeah it really does feel like a reunion um the first time I actually uh participated and at mechanismus was actually playing for system sin um in 2019 that was my first experience experience with it um and then Alice played um in 2022 um with systems as well um and so but like all the times like it's like you get to see all of your friends and all these

1:34:35different bands from all over um and make new friends um and I mean that's part of the fun is just getting to reconnect with everyone and you know and collaborations are born I would say like Anyan that's another thought like get yourself out to one of these festivals I know it's gonna you're going to pay money you're gonna have to even if you're not playing it just get out to dark force get out to mechanismus or Terminus um and meet everybody there because an exchange information because I feel like that's how some of these collaborations are born and or like hey I'm going to remix your music or and

1:35:09it's so cool to see that happen like with artists like when um on the smaller potato side of it all like nuda so Drew rosovich who is I call him the druda he's the he's the Drew nuda he's the her drummer he met her and I don't want to say it was because of me but like I think we largely yes music had a part to do with it but like basically I brought him in and he djed a show show was it she was opening for um I think she might have been opening for an artist or she was on stage or I can't remember how it went

1:35:43but like she was on stage and he was the DJ and they met and then like I think the rest is history after that after they met she I think she maybe wanted to bring in a live drummer and so he's been her live drummer now ever since um that and so like I love seeing that to where and then from there he had the opportunity to go play like NE atropolis and and do some other collaborations with some other artists and stuff so just like see that happen and just by like being physically at an event or at a show at at a festival and getting out

1:36:11there and meeting and have your little business cards and all that kind of stuff you know um and because like who knows you're going to meet and who may be looking for a keyboard player or you know whatever the case may be and so yeah yeah that's that's definitely it's you know you have to get that plane ticket and go get that hotel but I think it's gonna you'll pay off in dividends later on by just um putting yourself out there like that oh yeah for sure that's actually you know we met nuda at mechanismus um because you know we played the same day and then nuda ended

1:36:42up uh playing with us in Spokane um later on and so like I I already felt like a kindred ship um from those experiences and so when we needed a keyboard player I was like I was like hello would you like to come play with please so yeah I love that they love the voice the tell you kind of want to talk to her because she's so little like I know she's in a great way you know like like like but don't be like don't underestimate her like she packs a lot of punch like the talent yeah yes absolutely yeah but no it's it's true um

1:37:18you know I have friends um like Eric goddman who plays in so many bands um you know but that you really do meet a lot of amazing people that you can collaborate with and um and especially like it's one of those things like you were mentioning remixes and or even playing shows together like you know a lot a lot of magic can happen at the festivals for sure yes and I and I love when I see like we've had like bands on stage that like build like a like I think I don't know if it's the first when we had dark cheese may open for

1:37:48mail tiers um I don't know if that that was like the kickoff point where they kind of became like beses uh but I think like a really after that show at least like the the friendship like went even further than it had been before and they've like collaborated since then and they like message each other and I'm just like oh my God that's awesome like you know so like seeing those kind of like relationships born um at these like Live Events especially in situations like a festival where you otherwise are not going to see these artists who across the country you know and finally like those bands from Denver are coming

1:38:20in or like you know those bands from Jersey are coming in and we're all in like one place so it's it's definitely like a huge opportunity and you know constantly people are asking likew hey Elizabeth I can I can send you like Bookers in Sacramento and um Portland and Vancouver and all up and down the West Coast but like my my knowledge of who's booking out in um on the east coast is pretty limited but let me tell you like you start to meet bands on the East Coast because you did that thing and started to get to know them and met them at a festival they play the East

1:38:48Coast all the time because that's where they are they know who the the Jersey the DC like the BG like or the Philly Bookers are and all that and so that's going to be like a great conduit into that the other coast so I think that's another um a huge um bit of information you can you can leverage from coming to like going to a festival and meeting bands from other areas of the country is they they know who all the talent buyers are so when you want to take the show on the road from Sacramento to like you know New York City or whatever and up to

1:39:16like you know Boston then guess what you've got a relationship now with that band you met at you know like Absolution Fest or whatever so yeah that's yeah yeah the like it's like the relationships are really like the key to like you know getting like oh my gosh like where do I start how do I find out who are the talent buyers across the country like we'll meet those bands because guess what they've been around it for a while and they know who they because they've done some East Coast tours or whatever or some you know tours through like Georgia and Oklahoma or whatever you know so

1:39:48yeah yeah absolutely I I think that's a really big part of it it's like I find for the most part that the music Community as a whole is so helpful like everybody wants to help each other and so like when you reach out to people um like you know it's like you know hey you know I'm I'm struggling with this region um and then most people are so helpful with they like oh okay you know have you tried this um and vice versa like it's like it's really it's like you were mentioning at the very very first of our chat like all the boats rise together so

1:40:22you know yep yep and I never like withhold information like you know I have a massed like a list of talent buyers and stuff and if a band reaches out because they're trying to like DIY book their own little tour I'm like yeah here reach out to these people and if you know you need to drop a name that I like passed you off to them then please do because who am I to like gatekeep this information like because if we all succeed then the whole industry as itself does better and and then we can start to see like more more of our artists at bigger mainstream festivals

1:40:50like we're starting to see more Gothic industrial bands playing South by you know which this is a good thing this is yeah like let's let's not keep it all like contained right here let's like I'm going to share the wealth with you so you can go and like you can go do good things and then that music's going to grow and flourish and your your nights in San Antonio wherever going to grow and flourish and then from there you're going to get more notoriety and and you're going to make it at Big festivals and then we're going to work together and then sell more tickets yes because you did really well

1:41:20it's it's the whole like it's like the ecosystem right so M yeah yeah say yeah absolutely I think it's a like a big part of it though it's like it does take time it does take time to to build and you know like when we first started touring um you know we went from doing like little weekends to a week long to two you know it's like you you build you build up your stamina and it takes time you know patience y absolutely yeah yeah for sure and I mean like again I think as well like talking about the love and the joy for it you really do have to

1:41:58love love it because you know it's it's some work on you there's gonna be highs and lows and um yeah yeah and so you know and it's and it's fair to have those down days but you know just realize why why you did it all in the first place I think and then and I think that will prevail over some of those like low points whether there be touring ticket sales concerts you know running into some bad apples here and there whatever the case may be I think remembering why you did this in the first place place remembering you know all the good points of it all and I think that will prevail

1:42:29at the end of the day but yeah having patience perseverance I feel like we need to get a tattoo like I feel like these are like the Hallmarks of like some good ink right like patience and perseverance and Grace and and um and and just following a lot of follow too yeah so this is a really specific very specific question um because I know that you put so much love and time and energy into your shows um like could you walk us through like just an average show because I'm sure each show is different but just an average show like like what goes into it and how much

1:43:04roughly how much time it takes to put it all together like are you talking about like including the workup or just like day of show yeah yeah the whole thing Jesus oh gosh I'd have to like do an hour report on it's it's really a case-by casee basis like some bands like you hear from them once or twice you you exchange the tech writer and they're good other bands are shoulder tapping you every day because they just want to make sure everything's going to be buttoned up I I swear like some um tour managers I've had on speed dial like if I haven't woken up to a an email from them they

1:43:35want to know what the ticket sales are and stuff so I think it's it's Case by case but it's yeah it's about a three to six month work up for a a national tour um six like nine months plus for like an international um but just getting your dates locked in and figuring out like the who your support acts are going to be if you're not bringing support acts with you like talking to your local promoter or Talent buyer so they can find a support act and um getting the perfect date lined up and then um once you get that date lined up sometimes you

1:44:06have to challenge a date which means that you're not the only one who has a hold on that date there's like five people before you let's say and once you have your ducks in a row saying like Okay we're ready we want that date and then the venue says cool it's yours or cool it's not because the guys before you actually they were ready to go and so great now I get to go look for new venue and so until you find like that perfect venue and then once you get that that venue locked in in the the lineup announced all right when do we want to

1:44:32announce the tour let's get some ads going for it and like let's get that official announce and then let's start promoting the heck out of it so that way we can make sure we've got the most um quote unquote S's and seats on the day of the show and then you know getting your Tech Rider buttoned up to where when you send that over I I've already communicated well in advance with the venue what they need so that they can do their job well to set you up for Success that way when you're on stage it's not all weird um if we need to get the

1:44:57appropriate backline so that way just in case you're not touring with your full drum kit um just do that well in advance that way day of show it's all on stage it's ready to go and we can like open doors on time um and then just triage things as they come up but like if not like we've got a set schedule we the Run of show will stick to and if we have to deviate because of a little snaf one stage then we will just fly as we go along but um uh for the most part usually things run pretty well give or take a hand maybe a

1:45:26few minutes laterally to the left or right but um yeah and then after after marketing after like after show promotion is like I'm a big person about that because now we need to capture all the people who didn't go to the show the people who are like oh my God I didn't know about that or like ah I'm having fomo because I'm looking at all the photos and videos and insta lives that you guys did so I'm all about like after show promo that way the next time we capture those those people where they're like miss that one like a good one damn it you know so like yeah never skimp on

1:45:56the after show promotions or bringing in a photographer or your best friend who kind of knows how to do video with their everybody knows how to do video like just get like a friend with their phone get some like footage just so people can like you know we can capture those people the next time around who get the fomo from the um what they like oh darn like we saw from last night that look pretty good actually damn it you know so I'm always all about that but yeah just um yeah reach out to your local talent buyer and your Bookers and your promoters like probably six months

1:46:26once you know like that you want to get on on the road and and I've had actually band reach out like so far in advance like we had one venue in town that was like like uh what you want like next August whatever know it's like yeah you know and sometimes you'll throw them up like okay put the hold in you know or whatever hold on hold on the date and and some venues are like I don't even know oh my gosh one time a venue was like I don't know if we're gonna even be around by then I was like oh no don't say that you know so

1:46:54like you know but like yeah just um I I would say in terms of like shoulder tapping your promoters all the time though like be mindful and even especially with Talent buyers is because they um all have a billion other shows they're booking and so just to like be mindful of everybody's time and to really um and I've learned too even with myself is like the advance is the thing that's going to communicate all the things of the show so like the the advance is going to come it's going to have all the instructions for the show so you don't need to like you know oh

1:47:24hey by the way can you let me know like don't worry about it we will advance the show we will do it right and it's going to have all the details everything you need to know I may reach out to you early because if you might need lodging we might need to get that buttoned up sooner than later um or backline but for the most part like you don't need to ask me you know a million questions because I'm gonna have that all spelled out in the advance um and then after that if you have some questions that way and I'm even learning to do this better myself

1:47:49is like we minimize email traffic to the venues I did have and I've gotten my slap on the wrist but like basically we had a show Once where like the talent was like you had like a record number of emails I was like I'm sorry but like it was it was like the band like the band was asking me a million questions and I was like subsequently asking them which I've gotten better now to like table those questions and we'll button that all up during the advance um portion of of a show so like really just you know save all your questions we'll get it all

1:48:13hammered out in the advance um but if there is anything that you think like needs that premeditation to make sure to like communicate that with your promoter um well in advance so they're not having to like find a drum kit the day before or like we need a place to stay or you know oh we'd like to have our buddy open he's with us by the way like or something like that you know like um but yeah just giving like the the the Milestones of the pre-show workup of getting your date getting that buttoned up figuring out your lineup um and then you know figuring out like what gear is

1:48:47going to be needed and then when you want to announce the tour um and and making sure your listener or announc get the tour announcement via you know bands in town and and band camp and all that the song kick I've had some bands where I'm like you don't have a band in town you so recently like I've been I've been doing the thing right I email our bands I'm like hi I'm getting this all set up and sure like that they get your your fans get the uh the announcement drop and your your um your album drops are going to come through so making sure

1:49:19that all happens too because that's huge if they're not if like they don't see it on band camp or if they don't see it on Spotify then um that's highly problematic because that's where a lot of people are getting the music so you know so um yes all those little like Milestones through the and I'm doing a really good job so I'll be like reaching out to the bands like but all those Milestones working out to the so I told you it's like Christmas like here we are like all that work up now we're at Christmas day and we execute the show and then and and when Fell Swoop it's

1:49:49over and I've actually had bands where I'm like like well I'm going to just like not like talking to you every day like and having you on spll and texting you every day to make sure everything's all buttoned up but yeah um but yeah I'd say like for anybody that's the advance will take care of all of um all of the logistics so just allowing for that to naturally happen as it should um if it doesn't happen within a timely manner I'd say a couple probably a couple weeks out before the show that's when you if you're booking independently as an artist with a venue and you haven't

1:50:20gotten your advance from the venue you need to be reaching out and saying like okay I just need to know I've we've had shows that were not ours oh my gosh where like I was like hey I'm coming to your show tonight um what time you goes guys go on they're like well we haven't gotten the schedule yet and I'm like the show's tonight oh how do you not have that I'm like oh no yeah yeah we've had that experience where they they switched the venue on us the day of the show and they didn't tell us the right time to show up so that's

1:50:48happened so we really appreciate when people are organized and tell us ahead of time especially when there are like last minute changes and stuff so yes yes yes um uh so uh sarin derth um is saying it's a lot of work it absolutely is like um you know for for for us artists we have such a deep appreciation for what y'all do um like truly thank you so much for the love and work and you know all the things that you do to to make this possible yeah and thank you for that I mean it's you know at the end of the day like I remember talking to somebody once

1:51:26and they're like oh are you like doing all that and I was like yeah like because I'm not the artist I I I can't sing but I love watching the artist so I'm gonna do this thing to make that to make you being on stage happen and so and everybody has it's like a I always go back to like a military operation every not everybody is like combat infantry like there's all these support roles that happen to make the full thing successful and the show is the same thing whether it be stage hands um you've got your you know your merch crew your front of house Engineers your

1:51:55lighting designers your your techs your um your bar managers like all these people make this whole thing successful and so in order to get in order for you to do the thing that you do which is like be on stage and be beautiful and make beautiful music happen and and engage the crowd we're going to do the things that we need to do to make that so make it happen and that's how I see it so and it's it's a lot of moving Parts absolutely yeah yeah well I do feel like you're an artist I mean I feel like there there's a lot of creativity that goes into it like you

1:52:29know the fact that you can just like shift gears and you know think like probably have to think outside the box when you're problem solving too like you're probably like thinking on your feet so I mean there's so much creativity that's involved in that you know oh yeah like um we had one major tour that came through and I remember we did a we did a full lineup swap I'm sorry like a full concert swap with Portland based on two huge conflicting concerts I had gotten um well it was a major tour scheduled in our cities and I was like I hit up the coffin Club I was like if we swap our

1:53:06dates completely it'll work because then because they're GNA hit there when you have the thing and they're gonna hit here when I have the thing so we just swap then we're not hitting when we have the thing and but that didn't mean just taking like that meant taking it was like two concerts that had multiple tours and it was it was like this like oh my God like and just like the Artistry of that being able to like okay and then like okay well if you change your dat that means that you have to like in a whole thing and like it all it worked and you're like holy crap I don't

1:53:35everone have to do that again but like there there's definitely an art in that tell you absolutely and being able to like it's like you know compared to like a quick quick reaction like like SWAT response Force like being able to just like like the the scheduling and the you know being able to like make sure it all works out and like or you know like losing a venue and having to find a new venue and um it's just you know we we recently had this happen with our at the coffin Club our collaborative Festival where they got thrown into a tizy within emergency um construction situation for

1:54:09rezoning unexpectedly and having to like just reconfigure artist payout and how many tickets we could sell and moving the whole um con the whole festival from their one live music space to the other one and just like just there's there's definitely like an art in being able to do like kind of quick reaction operations and Logistics um which I'd almost argue that it's like more that than than anything and if you can take that off of the shoulders of the talent buyer or of the um of the owner of the venue then that's huge I would say like because they've got a billion other things that they're

1:54:46worrying about you know like liquor sales and like you know like security and you know all the other mil you know like working toilets or whatever you know yeah you know all all the million things that people have to like worry about in the operations that like the lights are on you know like so yeah if you can if you can like run interference on on the logistical side of a of an of a show then like that's yeah I'd say that's like you know you you can I'm a graphic designer so I do the design for our stuff but like you can always hire a

1:55:14designer but like to be able to like run the logistical side of um of a show like and you know we've you know like I've largely been in kind of like production where we've looked at venues that have their own production manager and I was like oh okay just feels lovely to have you like this all buttoned up so yeah because they had like a person that actually did the whole thing and had and they they were in charge of the LD and the and front of house and and security and all of that so I was like okay yes guess I'll just watch the show

1:55:46at this point like you know so yeah yeah that's awesome yeah it definitely makes you appreciate it like when you're wearing many hats and then and you have like more people helping like it just it's makes you very very grateful when that happens yes like okay I'm gonna go get a drink then I guess like you know so chill out for a minute you know yeah for sure for sure yeah yeah great question well Elizabeth thank you so much for like again like all the things that you do um and thank you for taking the time to to chat with me and to to share your wisdom and your just

1:56:26beautiful joy and heart with us like I really really appreciate it well thank you for saying that oh I appreciate you like inviting me on this like holy crap you know like I rever you guys like Al you like you're amazing and so I'm like believe that you're asking me but yeah thank you like and you know like absolutely now you know a gal if you ever want to come back through um as Ellis yes please I would AB absolutely love it absolutely love it like I don't know I just feel like um what you offer as as you know a person that truly loves

1:57:01music like foundationally you know like I think that any artist would be so lucky to get to work with you so a you know thank you so much I appreciate that so much you hear that okay you can quote me on your EPK yes this whole thing um well I just wanted to tell our audience thank you so much for for hanging out with us and tuning in and for your wonderful questions um and for anybody that is coming to Seattle please support yes music productions um any show really but um we love yes music productions and and we love you Elizabeth so yes thank you so much again

1:57:45thank you all right well it was great talking with you yes likewise have a wonderful Sunday