Curse Mackey, in full

1:35Hi friends. Uh this is Tash and we are Unwritten Rules of the Road. Um today we have an incredible guest. Um Curse Mackey. Thank you so much for joining us

1:49I'm happy to be here on a Sunday. It's good. Thanks.

1:55Yes. Yes.

1:56Need something fun to do.

1:58I It's always fun to do it on a Sunday. I think it's a nice way to start the

2:02Yeah. Yeah. So, I I just wanted to start off to like congratulate you on your incredible upcoming album, Imaginary Enemies. Um, I I had a chance to listen to the music and it's it's amazing. Like absolutely amazing. Um, uh, congratulations on your release.

2:22Thank you so much. Yeah, Imaginary Enemies. It comes out this Friday and, um, I'm I would say that I'm quite happy with the the end results of a long hard journey, so to speak. So yeah, I'm I'm I'm happy and uh I'm looking forward to playing much of it on tour coming up soon. So everything's good.

2:47So I I saw that you had mentioned that it was actually part of a trilogy. Um this is part three, correct? This is like where it all comes to its climactic conclusion, I suppose. Uh yeah. So, Instant Exorcism was the first one in 2019 and then immortal emporium was 2022 and then now this one Imaginary Enemies in 2025. So, it's kind of as you can see like this IE kind of themed which has a whole deeper meaning um outside of this conversation. But yeah, so this is the finale. Uh, so it's kind of a cool cool journey on my developing this self-titled project out of almost

3:37necessity because I wanted to play shows and Pigface wasn't being super active at the time and just everything was kind of in a strange flux I think even in the music economy at the time. So I just slowly put this thing together and then it became now this three album thing over six years. So it's kind of fun for me to have these three records and then maybe have a little closure as well as to this component or this aspect or period of time in my creative life and then now I can open myself up to something else maybe following this. I I was curious um when you went into

4:19the trilogy, did you have like kind of a a vision for how the thing was going to go or do you feel um like did were did you have all the songs kind of written in the beginning or like a road map or did you kind of let it go in process over the six years?

4:36I don't think at the beginning that I knew that I could make it to a full trilogy. It was just the first record was a matter of like sort of this primordial ooze kind of coming to life out of starting to do these ambient shows that were very improvisational in 2016 when I was playing uh I did like eight shows with Chant. I know I think you know Bradley Bills. So he uh yeah I was going to just DJ open for him on he was playing his way up to Cold Waves Festival but then in 2016 but at the last minute I decided that just DJing

5:15seemed a little bit just boring and so I wanted to shake it up and so I just composed this sort of free form ambient sketch of a set and just started playing making [ __ ] up on the fly. And after doing that for eight or nine shows, these repet repetitions I guess of arpeggiations or little things that I did started to emerge which created the first songs like oh blasphemy and after you destruction somewhat possessed kind of came out of that of trying a new project under my own name uh with no band members and so that kind of just took off. So, no. Um, I

5:59didn't have a overarching trilogy in mind, but I knew by the time I was getting deep into the second record that there would have to be a third. So, I would say probably it happened about halfway that I started to see the need or desire to get that far at least and that I had the idea of what I kind of meant. Um, again, a tale for another I I mean um from I actually went on the journey of listening to to the albums um back toback and um and having experienced your show last fall which was amazing.

6:37Um it it really did feel like it was tapping into this kind of subconscious like surreal journey. Um yeah.

6:47Yeah. I think that's where it's supposed to go.

6:50Yeah. It's it's like steeped in realism, but also this sort of fantasmagorical magic element that we or supernatural aspects of life that we also kind of like or feel maybe exist like the ghostly element and the afterlife and things like that. But this record definitely the new one def has some true to life characters and people that I knew in in my life that have died unfortunately and are mentioned by name and you know so I really kind of tackled much more real than I have in the past which were sort of almost like my version of sort of a a science fictional approach to autobiographical material in

7:37my writing. if that makes sense. Uh, but this one definitely just some real things happened that made me kind of find my way through all the music that I had been writing to reach an end point that wasn't just based in fantasy. I mean, it's like a pretty real record. Um, I like that that I've managed to find a real emotional chord within myself after this after writing 30 songs basically to where by the time at the end of this one I think that it was kind of poignant.

8:11Yeah, absolutely. I feel like um it's almost like you're you're writing towards the truth and finding that truth, you know, as the pinnacle point to tie it all together.

8:22Absolutely. Well put. Yeah. Um, one of one of the things that struck me um about your show was um just how intentional everything was. Like from the visuals and the performance and the music, it felt like very very intentional. Um, I wanted to ask you um about the visuals actually. Is this something that that you put together or did you work with another artist? Uh I will say yes I put it all together but the source of each video is a little bit different like you know some of them are the actual music videos for the songs. So for instance like the submerge video Rona from sign uh and I kind of

9:09collaborated on that and uh lacerations is a similar thing but then also there's some pretty sleek animation going on that a good friend of mine Brian Rman uh a notable VJ for like insomniac events um doing like he used to do some very La La Looa level video work, but he uh came to me wanting to work on some industrial stuff with some new technology and new digital paint brushes and uh that type of thing. And he didn't really want to share it with a major label artist. So, he just said, "I want to work on your stuff." And he made like four or five really beautifully animated

9:54videos um that also play throughout the set. And but unfortunately Brian passed away of cancer last year. He did get to see me play at the uh a show he got to see one show last year in June when we played in LA with Zymox that he got to see his animations on a very big screen and it was awesome and it was a soldout show but he didn't tell me that he had cancer and then like three months later I'm like why haven't I hearing from him and then my another friend of mine was like hey Brian passed away didn't want anybody to know so I kind of keep

10:29playing I'm going to keep playing those videos for a good while um just as a memory for him and then I'm working on new stuff. So it's kind of as I finish a video it gets slotted in and then if I am in a hurry and I need like a new song you know you kind of go into almost like a visualizer mode and create something. Um so that yeah so that's it's it's a labor intensive portion of the of the set design if you will is is dealing with the videos. Yes. But they do also act as a lighting source and another companion on stage.

11:06Uh for me.

11:09Yeah. I think it's amazing like the weaving of it. Um I I was wondering like when you get ready for for a tour um do you actually rehearse with yourself with like all the pieces in place um to feel the flow of it?

11:23I should. Um and most of the time I do. Like I'm feeling pretty good right now. like we're in in my rehearsal space right now and all my gear is on, my set is up. I have um stage lighting set up and the tour starts on July 31st. So today's the I'm feeling fairly rehearsed because I already had we just did four shows in Florida at the end of June. So, I'm I've been getting a lot of other [ __ ] done. Um, and I'm ready to start flying. So, yes, it's ideal to to run everything. Mainly because you just want to make sure it all works. Like if you don't set

12:08everything up for real until you get to the first gig, you might be like, "Oh god, I didn't know the bulb was out in the projector or that you left the power for the projector, you know, or the batteries are dead in the projector remote, you know, any little dumb thing can happen. So, it's it's makes sense to like set your gear up once or twice uh and make sure it all functions and works." And then uh getting back to your point about the visuals and things like that. Of course you want to see it all running and uh and see how it looks so you can

12:45decide whether you just like the whole content or flow of the show. So yes, the more time you could spend with everything working, of course it's going to just yield results better to the

12:57as with anything.

12:59Yeah, it's a juggle though. I mean, you're in the the week and a half before the tour launches, so it's a matter of picking and choosing your battles,

13:08Yeah. I I need to start singing mostly again. That's like the main thing for me is just physical uh conditioning really to do the show and all the u as you know, it's it's a physical thing, right? You have your

13:25Oh, yeah. 45 minutes or an hour of a show and then there's a along with that quite a few other things that require a decent amount of physical energy. So being ready for that and then just trying to be able to sing like I don't know think probably have more no more than six or seven shows in a row so it's okay.

13:48But yeah just like getting good again. Well, it is interesting because as as a vocalist, um your body is your instrument and um it absolutely does take conditioning and you put on a high energy show. So, um

14:07Yeah. So, I think like that's just part of the things of getting ready for tour for anybody is that you should sort of look at your body that way. um especially if you're in a van type of tour, which most uh of bands are. So there's no place to just lay down and pass out like in a bunk. So you're kind of subjected to your environment the whole time. So I think it pays to spend some time ahead of time getting your like you know we go for walks every morning and try to get in 20 or 30 minutes of some form of physical exercise every day to create muscle

14:45strength and keep the little tendons and like I've I mean I've broken my fingers and toes and like I've just had injuries over time. So, it's like I just want to stay physically healthy because that's the most key thing you have when you're out there. Like being able to do the thing and not having to wear, you know, splints or just being tired. I mean, people get fatigued. So, it's

15:14just taking care of yourself. Take your

15:18Get lots of sleep before you leave on tour. And yes, get ready. lift some

15:28Well, when you're on the road, like how do you maintain your stamina? Because it is it's like a marathon, you know, especially when you go out for longer

15:37right? Yeah. So, we're about to have like our longest of the year coming up from July 31st to getting home on like September 2nd probably. So, um that's a lot. I think it's 24 shows in 31 days, something like that. So, yeah. I mean, it goes back to what I was just saying, like getting ahead of it working on everything now, but also going for walks and exercising and really taking the physical fitness part seriously to be able to put on a good show, but also have the energy to be to on to drive or load in and load out and communicate with people and set up

16:22the merch. you know, you you know, all these things that you have to do running your own basically mobile popup retail operation plus putting on a show and driving it there is a lot of [ __ ] work. So, um I just think getting in shape is one of the things that I think is important or at least trying like and trying like starting out a few weeks ahead of time so it doesn't hit you like a [ __ ] ton of bricks. And I've seen it happen to people that didn't prepare and then all of a sudden we're like, "Oh my god, I'm on a six week tour and I'm three days in

16:55and I would [ __ ] see this coming." And now I twisted my ankle and I don't have access to all the sweets and [ __ ] that I eat at home and I don't know what I'm doing already and I'm tired and like like people lose it fast. So just from my experience like that's a good way to keep a sharper edge is take care of yourself well in advance such like anything else. It's sort of like if you look at it in a way like I guess like professional sports like those guys are highly paid, highly trained professionals but they don't just show up on for the first game like and just

17:33expect to do it at that level. They work on it for like two months in advance. And I kind of look at it the same way. Like I know that I've known this tour was coming for three months now. So for me then that just sets everything in motion with this big picture to-do list. And part of that is like, you know, start walking, start exercising, start you know, like driving myself to carve out time and get and f and focus and get rid of other distractions to where then now like I'm just narrowed down. Like up until this time, my morning on Sunday, the first thing uh we did was we got got

18:14up and then had our morning walk, have coffee, and then I started just folding my t-shirts that and labeling them all that I just got picked up yesterday from my merch printer. So that's like, you know, at least I got through 60 shirts and folded and labeled and packed in the merch container that goes right. So that's a big thing that I won't be staying up late on the night before tour frantically trying to get done. So and then from there I went into I have a to deliver a video from um a song since my album comes out on Friday. I have a video that's also due as part of the

18:50press campaign. So on in this case I'm the one u editing the video and so I have to finish that. So that's what I was also working on up until this. And then when I get done with this, I have a call with the promoter to try to nail a show that fell apart, like a replacement show because we lost a show because the venue is not going to be open. So now I'm trying to fill a date.

19:17that's my Sunday off.

19:19Yes. I mean, do we really get days off?

19:23No, because we don't want days off because this is fun. Yes.

19:27Want to work on these things at any chance you get because that's why we do I mean, how do you how do you keep track of all the things because there's a lot of a lot of moving parts and you wear a lot of hats. Well, I um have gotten really forceful with myself about uh time blocking and organizing my day going in. Like I know there's like we all have a list of like, oh [ __ ] I got to do like 16 different things, but really I try to narrow it down to the one or two most essentials. and and it kind of goes in like a bit of a a

20:10business administrative block. Like there's going to be one thing that I got to make sure I take care of on that end of things. And then the other thing is like what are my deliverables creatively? We're getting ready for this tour and and I got to like make sure like right now my number one thing is kind of like get this [ __ ] video done. And you know before that it was another thing of that kind of level that I had to get out the door. So these are the things that once they're out of the way then I can move on to the next most important

20:44creative piece. And then you know like now I know on my calendar it's been like this upcoming week is now I got to start advancing all the shows since I'm kind of have the tour manager role as for my own stuff as well as when we're out with clan of Zymox I kind of manage everything. So, I got to start contacting all the venues and find out so what what time, when, where, what, and all of that stuff and organize that to getting to back to what we're talking about. um organization and then like lots of Excel spreadsheets keeping track of hotels and what res

21:27where the reservation is on hotels.com and how much it is and what the address is of the hotel as well as the keeping track of the same all the show information on a spreadsheet of promoter name, venue name, what time are we loading in, how much are we getting paid, what's the details on all the parking and all that stuff, right? All the as much information as we can get. And then trying to make sure then also that my touring partners like Rona from Sign and we'll have uh Void Palace will be with us for two weeks. So, uh Ally and Sebastian like they need

22:07to know also what's up. And then of course when clan of Zymox joins us then all those guys are always like hey curse what time is you know what time are we leaving tomorrow what time do we arrive at the what when is load in and all of this [ __ ] So the more you can just go like here's everybody here's all that then that's good. So yeah that's all a whole [ __ ] ton of admin work that goes into like kind of getting ready to get out the door.

22:40So, that's

22:42I think uh it all leads to trying to get to the point of just knowing where you're going,

22:48Yeah. before you leave and trying to know as much about where you're going all the way to when you're getting home that you can like all the steps we're going to face as a touring entity over the next 30 days. Trying to know what every one of those things are because I think like knowing where you're going is just the beginning. That's the first thing. Like where's the club? Where's the hotel? What's the whole point of all of this? like are what what are you trying to do with your career? Why are you touring even like where are you going? It's like a kind of a twofold thing like yes one

23:24is just where's the club? But the other thing is like first step like knowing where you're going when it comes to the very basic of touring like why are you going where like what do you want to do? Is it for accolades and pat on the back and some crazy fun illusion of some lifestyle that may or may not actually exist or do you really want to do art for a living as your career and you're willing to like put your body out there because part of doing that is actually touring and that again is is a is not for the faint of So, you know, I want to know where

24:04you're going. That's my first rule.

24:09I think that is absolutely foundational. 100%. I love I love how you put it too is to know where you're going.

24:18Yeah. have an idea of a destination then then when you know where you're going like I think definitely in terms when it comes to more like the uh like career-wise if you have an idea of where you want to get like hey I want to for me it's like I want to play 50 shows this year and I want to make x amount of money doing it and few other parameters then that's a goal that you can go then I know and then I know whether I'm hitting that or not and if I do I might know okay well now Well, I the 50 shows is good, but I need

24:51to make more per show or or actually, you know, I don't really like doing it that much, and I'd really prefer to only play like once a month in towns near me and just make music and put it online and communicate within an online community about industrial or goth or whatever the [ __ ] type of music you make, right? And then your expect expectations change because you're still happy with the end result because you're just like cool this is the show I get to play this month because I have a whole another life. I have a family or a job and I can't go do what curse does or

25:26hasn't committed you know we've ch made different life choices. So, it's also good to know where you're going because that way your expectations are are are are met in a way because it's okay. It's success at any level as long as you are enjoying what you're doing and not feeling like you're failing.

25:44Yeah, absolutely. Um, if if I may ask, um, like what what is your, um, I guess joy or love of touring because you've toured so extensively in in multiple capacities,

25:58right? Um, joy by necessity. Um, like meaning like so I've made a commitment that I wanted to tour and make music and put it out there. So, and part of the making of the music experience for me is is going to play shows. Like I find that to be a lot of fun.

26:19And if it can and it's also something I guess like within my genetic makeup or something. I've been involved in I guess music as an uh as part of my overall economic makeup if you will like since I was a teenager. Like I've been DJing and putting on shows and playing in bands. So it's always been a core part of like who I am and what I do. And that expands into producing events around music and making art or putting on art exhibits. But it all kind of comes from this creative center. And then out of that you create. Or maybe you don't. But for me it's to try

26:58to make a business out of that and do it because it's what I want to do. And if I can do it and be sustainable, then I can do it my entire life. And I could be 90 years old talking to you about the same [ __ ] right? And how you figure out how to work your way through technology and manage your own storefront and create an economy out of your art

27:20or whatever else you can bring to the universe creatively. Um, so I think that you just have to go and do it. I don't know where that was going. But um that's where it goes. That's what

27:39I love that there is a really grounded philosophy in what you're sharing in that um you're talking about the sustainability and continuing to be able to to do this, right?

27:50Um because it it is one thing to have the expression, which is amazing. um expressing an art making in and of itself is it is I feel really vital to to all of us.

28:03Everybody should do that.

28:05Absolutely. Um but but to be able to like um actually like balance the left brain and right brain so to speak um where you're like okay this is the grounded in reality aspect of what it is to be an artist who is actually able to make a career of it.

28:23Yeah. It's a little I mean there's definitely a riskreward balance that takes place because sometimes it is a more like has a the stability obviously of a if say if you just have your standard 9 toive job you know versus a sort of freedom and feast or famine at times uh when it comes to the way money comes in in more in a cycle type of way for most you know they it's like this and then there's the freedom to do what you want and to try to follow your paths that really mean the most to your to your kind of core being. Uh so yeah, it's

29:03interesting and I think that you everybody should find that balance because the main thing is that if you have a sustainable side gig then that's cool because it can also take the pressure off your art. Um, yeah.

29:16Where you can do both almost not really part-time, but they just support each other in that way. And lots of people make it work that way, too. So, um, but the main thing is that you just have to like if you want to be creative, then you just have to protect that time and actually do it. That's the main thing. like whatever it is like you're unless you're actually sitting there doing it writing or composing and then publishing and putting it out then then it's just not legit in a way. I guess I mean if we're talking like being like a true artist and having somewhat of a career,

29:53you have to put this stuff out. Otherwise, you're a hobbyist and you're tinkering. But, you know, for those that for me, like the ultimate is to get to do it every day. I'm like, [ __ ] yeah. Let's like drive to to do this and try to make it happen and figure it out to where I can keep doing it. And the safety net is not necessarily there, but like doing it is a wonderful thing. So for us, like it's the time of our lives to get ready to have a record come out and then get ready to do this tour. It's everything that I guess uh the younger

30:29version of me that hadn't done it would be really excited about. So there's no sense in being jaded about anything like I created this monster, so let's enjoy Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I I think um I don't know. I was I was I was curious actually as well about um like you mentioned having really a lot of moving parts. Um, like do you find that your creativity and writing time is is are you able to create um when you're in the midst of having to juggle all of these details or is there like a span of time where you're like a lot more prolific and then you set it down and then get

31:13ready for a tour or is it all interwoven if that

31:17I think yeah that's a good question. There's basically I think ongoing layers of the way things like if you're composing your life. So the way it's almost like the way music is written like that yes there's this thing going on but now this other thing has come in but then that one's going to fall out and then this next thing is going to come in and then this other shit's going to just come crashing in like and then you deal with that and then that's out of the way and then but this other thing is still being dragged uh quietly in the background. So yeah,

31:51there's um there's definitely multitasking going on, but what I have learned over time, do a lot of trial and error is that multitasking sucks and and it's a fast way to get not a lot done. And especially now every like how many tabs do you have open in your browser or on your phone, apps on your phone right now? I would ask any of you that's probably like a lot like you gota you have to carve it down again like getting back to the focus and protecting the time and being organized to where it's like okay this two hours every day right now is vital that I am say for instance

32:33when I was working on the core writing of my book like it was like okay like no like as much as I would resist everything was trying to prevent me from sitting down and just like sitting down to write like, "Oh, I'll just check my email real quick." Like you do that, you [ __ ] [ __ ] yourself because then you notice that, "Oh, I forgot to deal with this. Oh [ __ ] hang on." And then all of a sudden you've lost your writing mode for the day because life took over. So the main thing is like sitting down and getting that core creative thing done at all cost. And then then the next thing

33:07is in now if I write for 2 hours now I know then I will deal with this administrative thing I got to deal with for an hour. Uh the [ __ ] booking agent is like confusing me or something or any little task related to the tour or something that's nagging. I will just put this over here for right now but I will address it and then after that it is done then I can move on to the next thing. So yeah time blocking it's like critical and like really protecting the most valuable time and not falling into that like way Facebook and email will eat eat up so much of your potential

33:49creative time if you're not careful and it still happens to me too. I have to catch myself. But by by starting to get really uh over the last couple years really a little bit more disciplined on blocking out my time and organizing my day by like these very crucial one and two things that are like the chords of structure for composing a good day. Like if these things get handled then I'm like I know I'm making progress.

34:18Yeah. So organizing it is is key like that. And that really also helps simplify because when sometimes when you have a to-do list, you look at it and you're like, "Oh my god, there's like where do I begin?" But if you just go like, "Well, deep down inside, I know it's that one little thing I should jump on right now." Or if I'm really this project is super important to me, then that's the one thing I need to move on to. And then the rest of that stuff just kind of dissipates and you're not feeling so stressed about having to so much [ __ ] to do. It's like no, just you

34:50just need to focus on this one thing for two hours. Be okay after that and then do it again tomorrow and the next day and the next day and then those things start advancing and compounding and then you're really get getting a lot of momentum. So then by the time the tour rolls around in 21 days or whatever then you're like [ __ ] already like you're ready for this [ __ ] to happen. Yeah,

35:12let's go.

35:15Yeah, I I I think that's probably a really huge reason why you're so prolific. I mean, you mentioned uh a book, if I may ask about um the sound philosophy um that you're working on. Yeah. So, the sound philosophy. So, um it's going to come out later this year, but it's sort of like really in a way a summary of a lot of the things that we're touching base on here in a bit of a mindset towards handling the the business of music and art and touring and all of those things that go into it over the course of uh a long life because that's ideally

35:56what you want. Like you want to be able to do the creative thing. That's the most enjoyable part of all of this to me is the making of it. Like I want to do that until I just physically can't move anymore. And then maybe I'll still know find a way to do it. But you know, like I say, like I want to make music till I'm 100 years old making some weird strange country western industrial noise avantgard thing. I don't know. But or minimal piano classical stuff like I will evolve. and I'm looking forward to that. So the main thing is to never lose that

36:31like you just that's why if you always protect your time creatively and then if it if if it is also a business that's being developed and a brand then nurture that aspect of it too and it can grow into something that you never lose because I do feel like so many people start out in life with a passion for music but it kind of dissipates like something happens disillusionment for life responsibilities occur and then they just say oh I wish I would have stuck with it.

36:59Yeah. So, it's nice when you don't say

37:03Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's it's a commitment for sure. It's absolutely a commitment to to say like this is

37:10Yeah. The book is sort of like about finding that balance of being uh with your art sort of at any level that you may be. And also the fact that making it to the top isn't necessarily all there is and it may not be like the perfect thing for you as well.

37:35We've seen many people, you know, below it and lose it. And so, uh, I just want, like I said, it's it's a it's kind of things that I've learned for myself that I guess I would share with the younger version of myself and others. So, do the

37:51Well, when can we when can we um read the book? I think it will be out in early December on SubtleBbody Press is uh the name of my publisher. Really cool uh book indie book publisher out of Florida. So yeah, that's a surprise thing. So, but it's okay.

38:15I'm really I'm excited to read it.

38:18Cool. Yeah. Um, I will definitely share it with you when the time comes and maybe we can talk about it more later on once it's in a physical form and sharable because I do think for anybody that watches what you guys are talking about in such a nice way and all the information that's getting shared from other artists that I have in watching your your broadcast or podcast uh that I've learned a lot too. So, it's cool what you're doing and yeah, I think that the book will contribute to that pool of

38:50Thank you. I I I um one of the things that struck me about you, Curse, is that um like I I've watched a lot of interviews um before before today and um I see that you were very much of service like to your community and the people around and I I saw this interview you did with Ken from Sounds and Shadows and you were talking about how this album you were working on was kind of a a gift to, you know, the music community as a whole. And I I I feel like um the book and the wisdom that you're going to be sharing is absolutely um something that

39:27you don't have to do, but you're sharing um a lot of wisdom. Um and that's that's really amazing.

39:34Awesome. Yeah, I think it's good to share. I mean, you can't take it with you, so to speak, so it's like why not? And and a lot of people have um like you can't do it alone. So along the way, there's been wonderful influences on my life that have shared their knowledge or expertise to with me when they didn't have to as well. So it's it's good. I I I think that anybody that wants to learn, it's worth sharing some information with as it just keeps things going. It's good for the music industry if those of us that have knowledge can pass it on to

40:14people because again it's a hard industry but it would be a sad world without like the business of touring like if all that like COVID was is proof that that it was a sad day for the world when every venue and almost globally was shut down like people weren't happy and when they were open everybody that was like one of the most exciting things for people like, "Fuck yeah, I get to go to a show again. Oh my god." And and see my friends in a club. So, um, we want that to live on

40:50long before long after us.

40:54Yeah. I I I heard a lot of people say, "I will never take this for granted

41:02Yeah. Keep that in mind. I think that's important, too. Like, don't take it for granted even along the way. Um, even when hardships occur on tour because they are inevitable and the little setbacks that happen or if you didn't get a gig that you wanted, all these things, little disappointments, they all happen. Things get get there's roadblocks, but when you when you address the roadblock, you just kind of and you keep going. And uh and it and when you just keep going, then it's not then it never ends. And that's the whole point again that I will always keep referring back to is the whole

41:42point in doing it is to keep doing it and to not have a finite day where you must cease to create or or tour. You can tour as long as you want. You can tour until you're 80 driving yourself around on a lawn mower if you want with the guitar on your back. I mean, you can do whatever you want. just be yourself and be creative. There's no no end to it as long as you just keep going. And that's that's kind of what my my vibe and I think philosophy in life in general is that I hope that I can sustain that. I don't

42:19ever want to have to quit. going back to um you were talking about in in Imaginary Enemies um how it's kind of like the the culmination of of the trilogy and in the six years of um continuing it. I'm sure like from playing the shows along the way and creating along the way and discovering things along the way, um it's like I feel like whatever the next thing is going to happen, um you're going to discover even more truths and you know, more ways of doing things. And so, like you were saying, the the continuity I think is so vital in I guess opening us

43:05up to being able to find more and more truth about oursel and the world around Definitely. I think that is what you were talking about like in in in u multitasking so to speak. The main thing is just like maintaining sort of like if you really want to do the art thing as as like I guess a real career focus is that every day you have to get in there and like work like it's not just a fun thing for like oh god I feel really inspired today. Okay, I'm going to go in there and like [ __ ] bang one out and two hours later you

43:42have this finished track in general like that can happen maybe but in general or like especially if you're writing a book like you can only write so many words in a day. So you got to write them every day or else the book's going to take five years to write instead of five months because you were waiting around for inspiration which is really just It's the same thing with writing music. And then the next thing is all the [ __ ] that has to be done to support that music and that's why and I am you know like okay well today I could be just chilling out but I'm I have to get in

44:16there and work on that video. It's coming up. There's a deadline. I must do it. So you just drag yourself out off the couch or whatever and go, "Okay, sit down." And like just give me five minutes, get started or give me an hour. Ideally, like a couple of hours every day will advance your [ __ ]

44:37You know, but it's not easy. But you just the main thing is that the more you practice doing that the the easier it is to get yourself motivated because eventually there comes a time where you it's like even like working muscles or learning something you get to the point where it was like okay it was hard getting started but now I'm getting the hang of it and then after maybe a couple of months of that like oh [ __ ] I can't wait to get in the studio now to finish learning how to [ __ ] edit this thing inside of Da Vinci Resolve or whatever the program you may be working in. Like

45:12you now you're tapping into something deeper and that's where creativity gets really cool. And then that's where then you're like, well, [ __ ] the phone and [ __ ] Facebook and Instagram and all that crap or watching something else on TV. Like I am over here working on my [ __ ] I don't even know who pre the president is. And I don't care because I am now in complete, you know, relationship to my being, which is right now right here working on this one piece of music or art and that's all that matters. And then I'm going to get this thing out into the world. And then somebody's going to buy it or listen to it and have

45:50an emotional connection while I start working on the next one. And that's what you just want to do and build a giant body of work over 40 years of doing that. Like imagine if you just were How much you would not say, "I wish I would have done that." You would just be like, "Wow, I can't believe I actually made 10 albums. I made a thousand paintings and I wrote eight books and made a movie in my life." Like that's to me a way cool way to try to live. And it just comes from the core of like knowing where you're going and doing it every

46:23day and working on your mind and body and staying sharp like and then be and then being willing to go with some lean times where where no which it could be financial lean times or maybe you're just not getting the the accolades that you may be looking for but that's not why you're doing it in the end. You should be doing it because it's like the thing you want to make. You know you're driven to that. Yeah. Um I'm wondering like um because I was envisioning myself as you were sharing about um the time block for the creativity. Um do you have like kind of a transition

47:02time as you're getting into that mindset um when you're creating? Um or is it something that you can just easily switch on and off? Like is there you know kind of a process that you go through or is it different every time? Um, well, if I'm at home, like I can kind of get a bit of a routine going. And then the tour is like its own thing that kind of sort of has a different approach to every day, but you still kind of know the same things occur every day on tour. They're just different every day. Like the there's a commute and then you got to go to a hotel and

47:40then you got to get to the club and do the whole thing. And everything about it is going to be 100% different than the night before, the day At home, it's sort of like, okay, I know exactly when I want to wake up and what I'm going to do after I wake up. And then the first must do like creatively is I try to like just get a morning journal session in to like sort of kickstart and and there's also resistance to that. some mornings I can like h god I want to feel like writing right now but it's just like just open the book and like it's very short

48:19journal that I have in the morning but it kind of just gets me going and then once I do that then I have that little like click um and then from there kind of take care of the little morning routine and get kind of coffeeed up or a little prepared on anything I might want to look at uh or I like to read in the morning. But then from there, I really want to get into before I look at any email or text or anything like that, I try to get that first creative session in. Even if it's like an hour and a half, like before I

48:55let the world in, the inbox is a dangerous place. Mine is. It's just like landmines of distraction. That will definitely pull me away from getting anything creative done because then once I start looking at that [ __ ] I'll start thinking about it. Like once I start thinking about the tours and talk, oh god, I got to advance the tour uh the merchandise. Yeah, like once that's all like started to be thought about or whatever, any daily life thing, bills or whatever, like once that stuff gets in my way, I find that it's harder to get back on track with like a real pure sort of especially when it comes to

49:34writing like words like I I don't want anything out there. But ideally, if I can get like a little hour or two musically in um then that's nice, too. But I I can I can definitely switch to music very easy uh in the late afternoon or evening if I didn't get to it all day. And sometimes I don't. But for creative writing, it's it's pretty much the morning or nothing. And then working on art like collages and cursive fixes and things like that, I can kind of mix it up a little bit. But I like to do that kind of like as a late afternoon break. like,

50:14okay, now I'm gonna go make a collage and anything that like got just got to take breaks from the computer. I think it's the main thing. So,

50:24work on the computer for a while, then go do something else and come back.

50:30So, then that kind of creates the blocks of time.

50:35Um, just wanted to say real quick to our wonderful friends in the chats, um, thank you so much for for joining us. Um, we're getting a question from from Richie. Um, who says, "I love to write. Uh, where do you get inspiration,

50:50Oh, it's from everywhere. Um, I I I think inspiration. Yeah, it's just really all around. And from there, it just depends on how you want to uh what it is that's all around that you want to tap into and put down on paper and start writing. Uh sometimes I don't even know like I like sort of the exercise of automatic writing like some of my journals are are focused on that where it's just like okay on on your mark set go and then you just have to start writing. So you can just be inspired by nothing and randomness if you want if you're ever stuck because it really doesn't matter.

51:32The main thing is the exercise of like okay I'm just going to write free form for two minutes just to get started. then you may yield at one good verse out of that little brain dump that will can be extracted and turned into something legit that might become a song. I mean I know for me that's happened on multiple occasions. So yeah.

51:59it comes from within. Inspiration comes from within.

52:05I love that. But the stream of consciousness is very powerful because it's Yeah. Sometimes you're not even aware I think of um like what your thoughts are until you actually write it out. Like there's a power in writing it

52:18Oh, definitely. Yeah. Writing by hand is I think has has a certain magical

52:26Helping make things real.

52:29Uh we're getting another question from Ken of Amber and Sounds of Shadows. Um he said uh speaking of merch curse, you always go beyond CDs, t-shirts, and bring some kind of original art pieces. Um anything like that for this tour?

52:46Most definitely. Yeah, that's one of the favorite things for me is is uh I was thinking about that as I was folding every shirt that I have that I'm taking and I was looking at all my art like I actually every single piece I have has been handled by me. So, it's just a fair warning everyone that my germs are on every single shirt. Um but yeah, making cursive fixes. I I like the handmade stuff. I really like coming up with cool little uh trinkets and oneoffs that are that lend themselves a little bit more towards the art edge versus just being uh mass- prodduced merch or just a

53:30t-shirt, you know, or a CD. So yeah, it's and getting back to talking about getting things done, like I really find a good sense of uh joy and relief in some ways and inspiration by working on the tactile art pieces that are like razor blades and glue and paper and actual paint and, you know, having paint all over and glue on my hands. Uh it it's just feels a lot better than spending all day in front of a computer creating stuff. So it's works out well for me and I think that everybody likes them because they're all a little bit unique unto themselves. So each of those

54:12pieces that I make by hand is a oneoff.

54:17yeah, I I was wondering actually um

54:20just like you can a unique piece. we love Ken.

54:26We love Ken.

54:29Um, are you um do you find that you're able to do any kind of um creativity um whether it's the tactile or the writing uh while you're on tour or are you just kind of just in tour mode when you're on Um it seems like you when you go on tour you're like ah I'm going to like do so much stuff like there's nothing you cannot like I can barely keep up with journaling because in the morning it's like you're just rolling out of bed like oh god where are we going and you have to know where you're going and it's usually earlier than you want and so you're

55:05already behind like from the get-go. It's just mainly like where how can I get some coffee and a little food? let's get on the road because we're already we have 300 miles to go and I might be driving the first hundred of that or 150 or so it's hard to keep up with anything else other than the road when you're on the road and just what that calls for. Um but yeah, sometime like I know sometimes I brought like four or five books with me. I'm like ah it's going to be cool. I didn't even read like a chapter because you just when you get to

55:37the and then when you have a free time it's like well now I I need to work on my social media I guess now that I'm not driving because I need to promote or or try to get a quick nap. That's it. So there will be no creativity on the road.

55:55I can definitely relate. I I I get the occasional lyric or poem that as whispers, but um

56:02yeah, but the reading of the books, I am so guilty of that. My poor bandmates have seen me do this and they're like, Tash, do you really need those books? And I'm like, I do. I'm going to read

56:12Yeah. It's a

56:14probably the creativity on the tour is like trying to get like good B-roll and stuff for future videos or capturing your own, you know, like you're just managing that content capture and making [ __ ] too, like trying to put it out there. That alone is creativity.

56:33Yeah, absolutely. I think it can be a lot of fun too, like when you're really um looking at it like that way. Yeah, you have to try to make it not seem like work.

56:45even though a lot of it is, it's still something fun that and creative like if you look at it from a filmmaker standpoint or something like that or hey, we're going to make a documentary. So, I need to get good content because otherwise it can be a grind. It's hard. No doubt about it.

57:04Yeah. Yeah. I think that it's it's it's one of those things like you if you do look at it like a grind and then it becomes um an arduous task and a weight as opposed to like okay how can how how can I make this um I go I guess in the way that I make my other things. Right.

57:25Yeah. Um, Richie is actually asking another question um about how how do you relax after tour?

57:37It's pretty easy. Just like sit on the couch and pass out and then three weeks later you wake up, you're like, "Hey, what what happened?" now I kind of like you just sort of ease back into a routine, I guess. I don't know. You kind of come home a little bit twisted and uh, and then it takes a few days to get over the like uh, what do I do with myself? Because when you get out there, it's it is very regimented even though every day is a little bit different. there's still like that drive like okay I gotta we wake up and we go and we do

58:24the thing and then we pass out and we wake up and we do it again but then after like once you get home then you kind of have like these like these probably the first three days are a little confusing I think if you've been out for more than maybe two and a half weeks because you don't quite know what to do with yourself like what am I supposed to be doing and then and then everything just normalizes and you just move on to the next thing with your life like [ __ ] and read a book, work on some art, go for a walk,

58:55go to work, whatever.

58:58Well, I What was your very first tour like? Um, was this, you know, was it something that you intuitively knew how to just kind of fall into or have you had to learn along the way um with the different tours that you've done?

59:13Right. Um, kind of both. me and we continue to learn and I always continue to learn where it started where I did where did I learn learn like trial by fire first tours would have been like the the first evil mother's tours when we were uh support act for pigface would have been where my best education in my early days would have come from because they were on a bus and then we had our strange little school bus. So, we're trying to follow that bus. But I would see how like Jolly Roger, uh, the tour manager, legendary tour manager, Jolly Roger, Chicago institution, 6 foot8, used to tour manage ministry,

1:00:01that's where I met him. And then he did Skinny Puppy, but he also worked for KISS. And there was rumor he might have been a professional wrestler at one point. But he's an amazing character. But I I learned a lot about tour managing just from watching him run the Pigface show. And then he kind of took evil mothers under his wing, which was great because he used to carry around when he would go settle a show, he would bring this big giant wrench, like a metal wrench that was like about this big. So for any promoters that wanted to like try to pull any [ __ ] it was

1:00:39just always like, "You don't [ __ ] with Jolly, so you don't [ __ ] with P ministry. It was kind of imposing, but uh anyway, I just it was fun to to see all of those because those were all like decentsized theaters. So, you learned a lot about the mechanics of how a real show ran in a bunch of, you know, like that tour must have played like 70 shows or something. So from the Ritz in New York to Prince's nightclub in Minneapolis or you know amazing venues in San Francisco just all over the place like getting to work in all of those venues and seeing how the dealing with

1:01:20production managers especially once I started then advancing into being a tour manager myself. um working with these people and learning how it all works has actually been a real fun thing for me as well and why I sometimes feel I can can speak with a little bit of expertise on these things because I have been in that position of you know working with production managers that are dealing with like way bigger bands than me on a daily basis which means they're dealing with production managers and tour managers and sound guys that are operating at really high levels So, it's you can you can kind of learn from

1:01:58learn from everyone around you along the way. But yeah, those early Pigface tours with Evil Mothers were were great.

1:02:08That's I mean that's sounds like an amazing way to kind of start everything. I I can imagine it really imprinted, you know, having that early experience.

1:02:19Yeah. And then and then you just kind of keep doing it. The main thing is just trying to get gigs really, right? At the end of the day, like work as much as you can when you can. Well, um, another question, um, is out of all of your years of touring, um, do you have any unspoken words of wisdom for a band that's just starting out?

1:02:44Yeah, for a band just starting out, um, yeah, like again, like know where you're going. kind of set your expectations maybe and you don't have to stick to it things can evolve but like what do you really want to get out from be like say hey within 3 years do you want this to be like a hobby or do you really want to make a career of it because then that'll dictate like how much time outside of the band itself you need to put towards the business of the brand and the band. So, that's a thing. But otherwise, like just get your get the get the

1:03:20fundamentals in order. Like make sure you have all of your social media profiles in your band's name and if you can establish a place to collect some email addresses, that's always nice. So, getting your online presence uh established is a good thing. I think that's probably your best way to just start is kind of getting that little entity in order in case you do get popular that you have all of those things locked down and then just be like be helpful and be a contributor to your local scene. Like go to shows, get to know bands that are already playing and if you want to play

1:04:02with them, get to know them and be nice and like introduce yourself and say your name. Like I don't know so many people like I'll meet like support acts that are maybe opening for us along the way on tour and I'll say hey I'm curse and they'll be like oh hi like they don't say their name and it confuses me and I don't know why. Like just say your name. Don't be too shy. Be nice. Um be a good support act. like if you're an opening act, just be like be there to help make it a great show and be really easy to work with and prompt

1:04:36and courteous and nice. And another one is always be very cool with the local sound and the people that work in the club, sound man, engineer, lighting person, whatever they may have. And again, that goes back to introducing yourself by name and like, "Hey, I'm Curse with or I'm Curse from Cur, you know, I'm Curse Mackie." Like I always let them know and I find who my house sound person is so I can establish that rapport and hopefully let them know that I am also nice and fun to work with and know what I'm doing and that if everything if all the equipment works that we're going to have a great day and

1:05:15that I don't have a ton of [ __ ] My gear's not everywhere. I'm not crashing anybody's dressing room. I'm not eating anybody else's catering or inviting my guest into somebody else's dressing room. I'm just the support act that lives locally and I helped bring people to the show because that's my job as as a support act or a local opener. And then the being a local opener, that's sort of like your audition in a way for the next time and the next time that you hopefully develop positive relations with bands that happen to make it around again and maybe happen to grow and then are like,

1:05:57"Oh, remember those guys from San Antonio? They were really cool." Who were they? Oh, that was Evil Mothers. Oh, yeah. Well, let's get them, you know. Well, why? Well, they were really cool and they put on a good show and they were fun to hang out with and really easy to work with. Like that's how the [ __ ] ultimately works. So, the more of that you can get out there with the more people, then all the better. Like, working in a club is really how I it happened to me. Like if you really boil down how did I get to this point of having a full-time career

1:06:30in music uh as a vocalist in my own project and doing art and writing books. It started because I was willing to clean a [ __ ] toilet in a goth club in San Antonio basically when nobody else would that I was just like I'll be the barback that these guys we knew that were opening a club. And from that was also happened to be like the best DJ in town in San Antonio, DJ Jesse, who was an expert beat mixer, most impeccable DJ ever when it came to vinyl mixing in I think like a legend in at the time down there. Like he was the DJ in that club.

1:07:07So, I helped him carry his records in, helped keep the DJ booth tidy, get him drinks when he needed them, and then would also have to clean up spills on the dance floor and get ice and, you know, for the bar bartenders and stuff, but every day, like every couple of times a weekend, you know, Friday and Saturday, when Jesse would come in, I was like, "Dude, how do you line up the beats on the turnt? Like, how do you get these records aligned?" And he's like, "Oh, you see like you see the grooves and like you get it." I'm like, "Okay." Yeah. And then you use the the speed

1:07:41thing to, you know, line them up and then you tap it to where they're lined up. Now you can see they're on the exact same thing. It's the same record playing on two turntables at the same time. Oh, [ __ ] cool. Okay. Well, hey, you better go. There's the boss. You better go like go get the ice. Catch me later, you And then the next night, the same thing would happen, but we would pick up where we left off. It's like, okay, remember how we did the phasing. Now, now slow it down and you'll watch how you'll get this crazy chorusing effect and it sounds sick on the dance floor

1:08:12when you do that because now they're slightly out of alignment. And just continuing for like months to the point where then he's like, "Hey, you want to take over on Saturday from 9 to 11 and DJ?" I'm like, "Yeah, [ __ ] yeah." Well, then the reason really was because the club's dead as [ __ ] for the first two hours and he didn't want to be there. But for me, I was I was happy to do it. And then the owner of the club noticed that I was getting good at it. And they're like, "Hey, we're going to open on a Tuesday night. Would you want to come up with a theme?" And you and your

1:08:41little industrial gremlin friends can [ __ ] knock yourself out. And so we that's what how I started becoming a DJ and having my own night and then learning okay now I got to make a flyer and go out and promote and out of that I was when wax tracks all started happening. So, I started writing letters to wax tracks saying, "Hey, I'm a DJ in San Antonio and I'm playing all of your bands and there's I have it on vinyl and all front 242 and Thrillkill Cult and KMFDM and all of that stuff was like first coming out like I was getting all that stuff and playing it. So, I just

1:09:20let them know and then ultimately uh we tracked down Skinny Puppy first and ended up putting on a show with them like you know their agent was like, "Hey, do you guys want to bring Skinny Puppy to San Antonio?" I'm like, "Yeah." So, we did like teenagers really at the time. Uh, but we pulled our resources together and put on a Skinny Puppy concert. And then that kind of got the word to Al Jorgensson that, hey, there's a little crew in San Antonio putting on shows. And then that's how we met Thrill Kill Cult out of that. and KMFDM, Frontline Assembly, 9-in Nails, like all the it was just word of mouth

1:10:02that I was putting on shows in San Antonio and all those bands like one by one learned. So again, it just comes down to like being nice and willing to go get ice for the bus or clean a toilet and you too can have a career in the business if So I mean really that's kind of how it starts. So, it's like it's kind of who you know and like putting your best foot forward and being willing to raise your hand to help because then eventually when it's like when somebody does need some help or is looking to hook somebody up, they can they think

1:10:36back about who was helpful. I still do like when I'm looking like to fill roles on tour to this date when I need personnel, my mind immediately goes like, who did I just work with on the last tour? Like, oh god, that production manager at this specific venue in Atlanta was fantastic, you know, maybe maybe they would be a good candidate, you know, or okay, yeah, we need another band for five shows. Okay. Well, you know, these guys were were great. These guys weren't, you know, for various reasons. Sometimes it doesn't have anything to do with how they were on stage. It's like what you how they

1:11:18were off stage that you don't want to necessarily have to be around them again or their baggage or too much gear or flaming tiki torches or whatever the [ __ ] people bring when they shouldn't.

1:11:34Has that actually happened?

1:11:36Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:11:38Oh, wow.

1:11:39Yeah. I think once once I was thought thought My Life of the Thrill cults main rig was going to go up in flames from tiki torches sending little embers that were like came back from came back from dinner and it was like whoa. Wow. It's like Grinder and Tiki torches burning and like Buzz McCoy's rig is like let's look at God. It's like six inches from the flame. It's crazy.

1:12:03Oh. Oh my god. Like I can't believe you would like jeopardize a show that much. You know, it's kind of like going back to like starting out like I think one good thing when you think about touring and like what how much [ __ ] you bring like it depends on the hierarchy of like things like the the the headliner has got the most overhead. They've got the most at stake. They need the most amount of room and they need the most money and they need the most time. It's all like them. And then you have like your direct support act who is that in between that

1:12:38has already also probably paid some decent dues and is bringing something to the table. It's going to have a little bit more of an elaborate setup and be given more stage time. And then you have a support act that's either on the tour or playing a halfhour set and trying to travel as light as possible and and then maybe a local support. And then that's when the local support gets dicey because you're the you're the one who's been at home looking forward to this gig for a month and you're preparing for it and you want to put on your best show. So you end up bringing everything that

1:13:12you can throw at it. And that's happened many many times. And the thing that is not likable about that is that the the the touring support acts by have to travel really light. Like sometimes I'm flying into a show, so if I have lighting, I might be lucky or maybe I have my projector with me or I've got one light, right? Um, but if you're the hometown team, you can bring out eight standup strobes and [ __ ] everything. Like you can do it all. And and it's not always the best thing to do because in a way you're sort of upstaging the band that or the bands

1:13:56that you're supposed to be there to be like a good opening act to help warm up the show, be promotional, help get your friends out and have a good time and grow. And then after you've done that and established that and then if it's your own night then you can create that [ __ ] you know my own crazy [ __ ] with all the vendors and all the crazy [ __ ] going down and it's your overhead and it's your night then you can you know do all those things. But in the beginning like you should just really be like take up a small footprint and do your thing, promote, be easy to work

1:14:31with, say hi. try to make a a friend in the band and connect and then it grows organically. Like you just can't force yourself into it. You just got to let it happen naturally. And the nicer you are and the more you put yourself out there in those ways and the easier you are to work with, then that's great because we remember these things like uh you know, you'll hear like um a proposed act maybe for support. It's like oh no, not that again. I'm not saying any names ever, but like it [ __ ] happens.

1:15:08Probably been responsible for it at least once in my life, too, in the early days, too. You know, like my band used to set [ __ ] on fire and stuff. So, I look back, I'm like, I wonder if that was like in that slot too much. You're young, so you don't know. You're just enthusiastic. You want to put it It's all good. There's no right answers. I do feel like you do learn as you go and I every tour is definitely a lesson I think.

1:15:38Yeah, absolutely. I think you should never stop learning and always be curious about and I still like Rona from sign. She's great. She's really fun to tour with. Uh like a great partner and a good thinker. So it's always about like h how can we do this a little smarter next time? What little tools would would make life easier at the merch table when it comes to like uh do we lighting for the merch you know, extra batteries for things? Just like all kinds of little things that make your life easier. Um she's good with that. Um, and so yeah, like each tour and while you're on tour

1:16:19as well, like the 30th show should be so many times more refined than the first one because you want to up until the very last second try to make it better. Like that's the goal all the way through, I think, is that each night, okay, what didn't work there? What did I do wrong? like, "Oh, yeah." I mean, there's all kinds of little things on and off stage that you think of. And so, if you make a mistake, it's all cool. [ __ ] happens all the time. And then the main thing is like when things go wrong to really it's all about mindset and keeping your cool

1:16:57and grace under pressure and really giving having a little bit of a a thicker skin to know like okay there's there's no sense in melting down or getting really upset about anything that's going to happen because these things you know something's going to happen at some point and you're going to be called upon to act with grace under pressure and not just m amplify because now you're troubled because something wrong happened whether it could be anything like [ __ ] from blown tires breaking something broke down or something but I don't know you all you know all the things that go wrong on tour there's lots of opportunities to

1:17:37lose your mind so you just got to keep keep a keep a balanced outlook and just keep it cool and then like I said you're just working to make it as good as you can all the way to the end so then when it's over, um, you can transition back to your what comes next easily knowing that you gave it your all in the best way possible. And that's all you can ask of yourself. You can't control how many people show up. You can kind of control what they think about you by putting on a good show, but there's a lot beyond your control. So, you just

1:18:11have to go out there and be the best you and then that'll carry over into taking care of your the ones that are around you. Like looking out if you're in a band situation, then be nice and generous and kind of thoughtful about your space and how much room you take up. And whether you're on time or you're the one running behind or if you're the one that's the first to get up to help lift something and make [ __ ] happen or if you have to always be asked to help move something because you're hiding from load in or load out, you know, I don't know. Just be curious about it and

1:18:50like curious like how I one of my things is like okay, how can I make this work? Like I've tried to turn my because I used to always be like uh I don't know that's if that's going to work because and I could run down like all the whatifs of like how things can work out or not come to fruition, why it might be a bad idea. But I've also tried to change my mind and the way I look at things like even knowing this may not be a great idea like could I make it work? And then you just think about it and at

1:19:16least you gave it the time a day and especially if it's somebody else's idea like hey if somebody comes to the table like hey what about this don't don't just shoot it down like give it give it some thought like well maybe that could work and if it doesn't then you can come to a group agreement like all right maybe we will do something else but I think it's being really open keeping an open mind uh and not being too quick to judge or knock down ideas is really important on tour to keep everybody like feeling like they're part of it and their their energy and input is valuable

1:19:50and then you'll get good res you know people will work harder and when they feel like they're all part of something a greater good I've seen that work many times and I also see it when it's not working when people are grinding against each other it's like ah now everything's just taking longer everybody's in a bad mood now the hospitality really sucks and you know it's just like then you can see people not having a good time at it and That's sad because sometimes it's just a simple adjustment in your brain and your perspective like no shit's going to go wrong and when it does I'm going to just keep a

1:20:23good attitude about it because after it's done then that's just one last thing we got you know something else we got out of our way and we'll laugh about it later

1:20:32So don't fight about it now.

1:20:36It makes a huge difference for sure. Um, we actually had a question from Ken that was asking about um, like how you deal with um, you know, giving each other space and and boundaries on the road. And it seems like that's a really key part, you know, is having that awareness um, of not putting too much weight when things do go wrong, right?

1:21:00Absolutely. Yeah. I think it's just like again, you know, everybody's going to have like little we're all emotional to some degree. So thing things that happen affect people. But again, it it's just mindset like internally and externally. Like when shit's going wrong to me, like sometimes I'm like, "Okay, well, I'm not really happy about this, but I don't really need to like complain out loud about it. I'm just going to deal with what I got to deal with while I'm still driving to the venue or whatever it is. You know, I don't need to complain out loud

1:21:37about something that actually if it doesn't even affect three or four other people because then it just interrupts them and it brings them into something and it magnifies a subtle problem more than solves anything. So, um, yeah, it's and then recognizing like if some you can kind of tell if somebody else may be down and then you can offer, uh, you know, anything I can do for you like or you all good? Cool. All right. I'm going to go set up. Let me know if you need something like very simple. Like I just learned a lot of that because I think uh being tour manager for my life with the thrill

1:22:16cult while playing in the band and also Martin Atkins and I used to co- tour manage pigface like he would say he goes I take the morning shift and curse takes the night shift kind of thing like it's how we would run it and uh but you when you kind of enter into that level and I guess it goes back to also when I think about my career starting as a barback that that was like a a It's a service industry role, right? Ultimately, I'm there to provide this environment of whether it's because it needs ice or it needs music or it needs to a band or it needs somebody to

1:22:58run this show. Like you're kind of always in service to the audience as well as when you're in a tour manager role, I think you're in you're in service to your crew and the band itself. So, you got to make sure that they're doing good because you want at the end of the day, no matter what is happening from the time you leave the hotel to get to the show and play the show, no matter how crazy that part might be and how wrong or whatever is going on, when you want the the band to you want the show to be perfect, and you don't want to telegraph anything that's

1:23:31wrong to the audience because you're not trying to bring them into our [ __ ] drama over here either. They don't deserve that. They want to see us out there doing our very best, not troubled by anything else. So, when you're taking care of yourself and taking care of your closest people, which is your bandmates, then you create this little symbiotic world that can just can actually go out there and create uh positive energy for people at a show. And you have that happiness for that time. And that's kind of what the whole point is when you break it down. Like that's what music and this touring does.

1:24:12It's like that gives us that time and space at then wherever we're at together to share this fun little thing. Then we go on and the adventure continues. So yeah, you just make it easier on yourself by just like like shit's going to go wrong. Just don't fight it. It's like keep a good attitude. It's all good. You can write about it in a book All the [ __ ] that goes wrong is what makes for a good book. I mean, it's like that all the good shows you're like, "Yeah, whatever." But that one time really went wrong. Let me tell you a

1:24:51Okay, I'm going to poke a bear here. Um, since you since you just brought it up, um, is there like a moment that you've had on tour, um, in any project where you were like, "Oh my gosh, like this is chaos like how do I like is there a particular moment that stands out to Well, I guess the one that's popping into my mind right now is like it's a when you need to really I guess it's a lesson in valuing the moment that you have and and what you're actually doing while you're doing it because again going back to like bitching out loud or finding reasons why

1:25:34things aren't great while you're doing something super cool goes against itself. So, there was a Pigface tour and we were in two buses and it was we were heading towards the last night to play a soldout show at I think even we [ __ ] I don't know we might have even been playing two shows at the metro in and along the way you know when when you have two like 34 people on two buses for like six weeks you at times you can get a little things get a factional or like clicky or things are just grinding at times and people on one bus and then the

1:26:15other bus and the rules on one I don't know it's just like these little ecosystems develop and uh and it's stressful at times but um I think it was my life with the thrill cult pigface zommancer and bile must have been that tour was an incredible tour really was probably like one of coolest tours I've done. But um along with all of that stress and life um on the last night um the one bus that I was not on but Martin Atkins was on it and Jolly Roger and a number of other obviously very important friends and our family. that bus um almost flipped and

1:27:07like totally wiped out. Um but it didn't fortunately. It managed to not flip, but the whole when we got to the venue and learned about what had happened to the other bus, the whole front end of it was just like shredded and like like massive amounts of like turf from like how it almost went into the side of the road and stuff and like everybody flew out of their bunks and hit their heads and all this crazy [ __ ] And like literally half of our people 100% thought they were going to die at that moment.

1:27:46Wow. And when they were back together with us and then we learned and what happened to them was like this kind of sense this incredible like energy of like wow life and love and like okay. I mean like anything that any I felt like like these like little petty argument to to tour energy just dissipated and it was like wow. Okay. So everybody just all of a sudden had this greater appreciation for the moment and their life in general and it was like a true awakening that took place on the road. And then of course when you have an experience like that and then you have a soldout hometown

1:28:29You can only imagine like the energy that came off the band because they half of them had almost died and the way the whole show went and the attitude with the crew and the understanding from the the venue they knew what had also happened. So it was just like I thought it was like wow it's really sort of transcended a show because somewhere over here like half these people almost didn't make it. And so I I'm grateful that they did and uh and and you know so you get like a lesson in gratitude and um not taking it so grant for granted and like not

1:29:09letting little the little [ __ ] pile up to where it becomes ever an issue like we're very fortunate that we get to do this. So, um, yeah, that was the probably one of the scarier ones that led to like a kind of like a transcending of energy a bunch around a bunch of people because it was such a like a near-death experience.

1:29:33So, I know there's probably many other variations of that story from those that experienced it, but uh, yeah,

1:29:42that's so wild. I mean it's it really does make you really look at perspective in such a broader lens I think having an experience like

1:29:53right and I I think that's all lends back into my whole thing I guess my philosophy of working towards a often challenging career of creativity uh and trying to be sustainable by also having it be a business um is just mindset and and trying to like know that that the scary things that happen and the challenges that happen, they're all part of the same thing. They're they're as valuable as playing a hit song on stage again and people really liking it. Like these things that happen off that go the I guess the alchemy that goes into the machinery of making a show. Like there are really magical tidbits of life in

1:30:37all that goes into you know the 45 minutes or an hour on stage. And if you really pay attention to it, you can get a lot from it that I think empowers you to be able to keep going is just become aware of like how things work, I guess. And it goes then that going back to like the first question about where is in inspiration come from, you know, you see it firsthand and then you get inspired and you just keep going.

1:31:05Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, I uh I know we're we're coming close to to time. Um, you have a very very big schedule. I know um getting ready for the tour, but um I did want to say just how deeply grateful and inspired I am by you, Kur. I know I speak for the audience as well.

1:31:31I mean, you've you've had an incredible career, um, and continue to, um, and and it starts foundationally from a place of service, like you were saying, like be willing to get the ice and think about others and, um, I mean, obviously it's led you to so many different places that maybe you didn't even know would lead

1:31:52Oh, most definitely. Um, and that's the cool thing like you just when you put yourself out there, those opportunities will arise and then if you're aware and then you might grab on to one and it takes you somewhere you didn't expect and that's definitely happened for me a few times. So, um, I encourage that.

1:32:13Yeah. Well, um uh for for those of you um who are able to catch Curse on his upcoming tour, um do you have a preferred method of how people can keep track of you?

1:32:26Um you know, my if you want the real deal, the best thing to do is go to and get on my email list because that's really where the the first line of information and opportunities go. like if I have limited edition anything I'll or breaking news so to speak like I try to put it all through my uh newsletter first called the exorcist files and then from there like uh Instagram and Facebook I'm very active on right now because of the impending tour so it's it's a necessity and also I have a nice community at and all of those wonderful people have heard my album already and seen all

1:33:14kinds of fun things behind the scenes that nobody else has seen or heard. So there's there's uh some privileges to joining me on Patreon. Um so yeah, and then otherwise just come to a show and meet in person.

1:33:31Well, I'm really looking forward to seeing your show here in LA um next

1:33:37Yes. And then uh I would just would ask everybody if you enjoyed this, yeah, check out Imaginary Enemies, follow me on, you know, Spotify as well or pick it up on Band Camp. Uh cursmackie.com right now just directs to my band camp. So all pretty much all the tour dates and every bit of information is there as well. So yeah, it's all happening now. Album comes out on Friday.

1:34:05In a journey. So, I'm excited about it. I'm really happy to get this music out and I think it tells a cool story

1:34:12and uh Chase Dobson, who co-produced it with me. I He's impeccable engineer and and really did a a stellar job in helping me put this together. So, as far as the trilogy goes, it's it's I'm I'm really happy with it and I think it has a pretty uh interesting ending, but no spoiler alerts. Yes. Yes. Well, um, thank you so much again for for sharing your your time and your amazing self with us.

1:34:45Oh, thank you. Keep doing what you're doing. This is a really cool thing.

1:34:50Thank you. Yeah, we absolutely will. Um, and and thank you everyone um online for for hanging out with us and for your wonderful questions and comments. Um, we will see you next time.