SINE, in full

0:01[music] And all the lies and all the the shape shifting everywhere. In the game of truth, they'll go for the with champagne and holy eyes. There you can't deny will take you to [music] the highest water in their veins. We'll bring them violence, sex, and Take the devil's perspective, and leave the soul in the cold to be Hi friends, welcome to unwritten rules of the road. I am Tash and today we are joined by my amazing friend Rona Rouge Hart. Um the incredible force behind sign. Um welcome Rona. Thank you so much for being here.

1:55Thank you so much for having me.

1:58It's awesome to see you. Um I I feel like I've been so privileged to get to see you in um different incarnations. Like um I've gotten to see you in Austin. I've gotten to see you in LA. So um I feel like I've gotten to witness like different chapters of sign which is really amazing to watch.

2:18Oh, thank you. I I appreciate that. And yes, it's been through quite a few different changes, so it's it's forever

2:27I remember seeing you post um pretty recently about um like retiring a certain visual aesthetic. Um I think it was a mask that you had been using. Um and I was I was curious um do you have something new brewing for 2026 that we can look forward to? Uh yeah, you know, I the whole thing that I was kind of retiring was, you know, I had done this kind of like bladeunnery nun thing with the clear raincoat jacket and um been doing that kind of look and intro for the last two years, I would say. And while it's been amazing and it's it's very wellreceived, I just kind

3:11of want a little bit of a tweak and a change to it, um, I haven't quite figured out what it is yet, but it might be a variation of the theme, just different pieces and possibly a different persona. But I do like the masks. The ma the masks are always going to be there in some way. Do you make the masks yourself or um do you um acquire them and and then illustrate them or I was I was curious about that. Oh,

3:45so I paint the mask myself and I have several different faces that I I mean some of them I haven't worn at all yet, but um it's it's fun. I kind of like coming out a little mysterious and it's very attention getting when people don't quite see your face right They want to know more and I like that allure.

4:12I love the theater behind it. Um I I I remember um hearing in an interview that you shared um that sign came to you in a vision like you literally saw it. Um, and I I was curious, is that kind of how ideas come to you? Like kind of subconscious, I guess.

4:32Yeah. I I feel like there are times where I have inspirations that just hit me right away and I have to go write them down or uh take note or I'll lose them forever. Um, but really I I feel like things like that kind of happen naturally. And as far as sign goes, I was just looking for a name that was easy to pronounce and spell and couldn't quite figure out what it was. And it was just like I woke up with the word sign in capital letters. I just saw it in my head and I liked it immediately and thought, "Oh, that's perfect." So that's where it all came

5:16from. and and it is sometimes um where some of my song ideas come from and things. So, yeah,

5:24I think that's amazing that you um have like not just the the audio and the musical side, but the the visual side because I feel like you're able to like piece everything together in a whole Yeah, I I I definitely um have a sort of look that I like and sometimes I really don't know what I'm going for and it's some things just happen on accident. And I really like those creative times where you just kind of stumble upon something that you never thought you would put together and it ends up being really great. I think that's where the magic is in our creativity as artists.

6:08Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah, and I I think I mean when you talk about like the stumbling and the accidents, like do you find that you are creative in that way when you're on the road or is that happen usually when you're back at home when you have the space for that?

6:26Uh, well, you [laughter] when you're on the road, you definitely have to be creative. And you know this, you have to be creative about like what you're going to eat.

6:38you know, like how are you going to live? I would say that's where your creativity comes in pretty good. Um, but uh it mostly happens just in writing music. Um, those little spontaneous things. Um, I feel like more on the road I'm I'm a little more calculated because it's uh a little more treacherous.

7:02Yeah, that's true. There's there's a lot to navigate while on the road.

7:10I've spoken to you um when you've you know been an artist that's performing but also as a person that's supporting behind the scenes as well. Um and I remember chatting with you about it. um like do you find that um you like to kind of like go back and forth between [snorts] different roles or do you have a preference for um being behind the scenes versus being an artist when you're on tour?

7:39Well, I I actually really like the aspects of both. Um, I like being an artist and being able to get out there and do touring and um, but also when I'm home, I like serving other artists. And so I do a lot of um, work as a freelancer, as a my own business. Um, and I support artists in their promotions. And so to me, I think that having someone on the inside that's going to help you with the promo is very valuable. And so I always take good care whenever I am working on a tour or having to um help with marketing pieces. Um I know what it's like to have your

8:28name misspelled, [clears throat] the date wrong, all those things. And so when I am off the road and I'm working for bands who are on the road, I always make sure that I pay attention to to those things and make sure their stuff goes out right because I know what it's like being out there. It's already rough. So being able to help them off the road is uh is something I really

8:55Yeah. I mean, I think you are really gifted um in in so many ways and I I love, you know, the the energy and the passion and and the care that you show um in that facet as well because um

9:09yeah, it really shows. So, yeah,

9:12appreciate it. Thanks.

9:15Um we're getting a a question in the chat from Pete. Um Pete, thank you for for asking. Um, he was asking if are are the masks a personal thing that reflect different aspects of your personality or do they more relate to eras of the band so to speak?

9:33I think it's it has something to do with my personality. I would say um the the feel of the band sign and the music that I make with it is kind of like it has a bit of a sinister vibe. So, I kind of like coming out on stage with a bit of a a cinematic kind of vibe. So, the masks are kind of my way to do that. Um, some people use makeup or different props, but I really like the masks. Um, just changes who you are immediately when you put it on and then when you put on the rest of the costume. Definitely changes everything.

10:14So, it's kind of um kind of a little bit of a mystery that I really enjoy. So, it's kind of a like a mystery of me, I guess. [laughter]

10:28I was curious actually. Um do you do you come from a theatrical background?

10:34Uh actually I do. So, I was one of the theater nerds in school.

10:41I [laughter] was one of the about it was um when I was in school, they would have like plays and musicals and things and I would try out for them, but I would never make it. Um but what I did make every single year was our high school had kind of like a Saturday Night Live type thing. It was called ETC, which is Eclectic Troop of Comedy. and my sister was in it and um it's kind of like you make up skits and things and I pretty much made it all four years of school into that troop. So I was like on the Saturday Night Live

11:32cast of my high school, I guess. And I found that to be very fun. It was exciting because it's like you got to be creative and make up skits and do funny things and funny little songs and stuff and I found it to be interesting that I never made it for an actual like play. But it was like, "Hey, you're funny. We'll take you for the the comedy thing, but anything serious now [laughter] and don't try out for anything serious." But that was kind of my life. So yeah, I I was definitely a a theater nerd and I loved it and I loved all the people in

12:10it. It was a lot of fun. So it was kind of a natural progression for me to continue continue to be a funny girl on stage. Now I'm just funny with a little more danger. [laughter]

12:25I love it. Well, I know you also have a dance background and I I really feel like that shows because you have a certain way of gracefully carrying yourself, I think, on stage. So yeah,

12:36thank you. I appreciate. It's interesting that you noticed this because I also did dance in high school. I pretty much did, you know, everything a circus person would do. I learned how to dance.

12:49I actually can tap dance, [laughter] you know, I can do comedy, whatever. You know, just put me on a stage and I'll I'll do something. I'll entertain you. But I think it was just natural. And also my dad was a a theater guy as well and he did music. So I don't know, it's just in my blood and here I am still entertaining to this day. Hopefully.

13:15Yes. [laughter]

13:17Are you um was sign the first project that you started playing live for or were there other projects that led up to

13:25Oh, there there were definitely others. Um, so I never really set out to be a lead singer or any uh band leader. That was really not my intentions. Um, my intentions was to be Alan Wilder [laughter] basically. I mean, Depode was the first band I saw live and I love I mean it they changed my life. they they were the ones that made me look and go, "Oh, I want to do that. That's what I want to do." Um, but when I saw Depes Mode Live and I didn't necessarily think to myself, "Oh, I want to be Dave or Martin, you know, I like Allan

14:11because I like the music. I like the vibe and the things that were uh created. And so I never thought of myself as like a lead singer or anything like that. Um but yes, I I did play drums in two different bands in Austin. one of them I played with for a while and then they kind of transitioned into a more of like a cover band and which was fine. I mean that was just what the the lead singer just found more interest in that. Um it was called Dead Love Club and it was all original music to begin with which I really loved and we actually opened for

14:58Thrillkill Cult several times. So we were on that path. We were kind of like baby Thrillkill cult and it was it was really fun and and cheeky and all this but the lead singer just decided he wanted a different direction. and he didn't want really want to go that route. And so that's where I ended up forming sign and kind of putting myself in the front person place because all I had was me [laughter] as lonely as that sounds. But I mean it's all out of necessity because I feel that I'm pretty ambitious. Uh, and I just don't want anything to stop me like having to have

15:43a band. And um, I mean, nothing against bands. I I actually have had several people in my band before, but I wanted to be able to take some opportunities and have some liberties to kind of grow this. And so that's where being on my own kind of facilitates that. Um, I'm not closed off to having band members ever again or anything like that. Um, I just I'm just growing the I'm just growing the band right now. And so in the future, I'm I'm always great for players, but you know how it is. It's like we're our own everything and we're our own financiers. So, um,

16:26yeah, I don't know. I'm open to it all, but yeah. Um, but yes, I have been a drummer in a couple of bands before and I really enjoyed it. Um, and I wouldn't mind doing it again, but under the circumstances that work. But for now, here I am. [laughter]

16:46Well, I love that you um have really served your vision. Um because I think sometimes um you know, anyone can can block themselves if they're like, "Oh, I don't have so and so to do this whatever it is that you think you need to do to put yourself out there." Um, but you you had a vision and you were like, "Okay, I'm I'm going to figure out how to do this and just do it on my own." So, that's very powerful. I I I've noticed um you know, with with going down the rabbit hole of sign music that it feels like um very empowered, like a very

17:19empowered uh message behind it.

17:22Yeah. Basically, it's like [laughter] I've been through a lot of stuff in my life and I think by the time sign came around, it's like I'm not going to take any more [ __ ] basically. Um it sounds very simplistic but just it's true, you know. I I think um

17:41just navigating life as rough as it is. Um, I feel that I I mean being a female in this world and industry is tough. Um, you got to have thick skin. You got to be able to deal with controlling issues and and I've allowed myself to fall to those types of things. And so this was just kind of my way of taking the reigns back and and being who I am without any uh conflicts.

18:21Yeah. Yeah.

18:22Um Yeah. So that that's really it when it comes to science music is these are the songs that I write. They are somewhere in between the truth, the harsh truth, and the comedic harsh truth. So, I always have this thing where I'm like, if you identify with any of the entities in my lyrics, you might want to think about your life. If you're like, "That sounds like me." Then you might want to go, "Do I want to be like that?" [laughter]

19:16I mean, really. But I but I I mean, I grew up in a in a world where I love I love the Smiths. I love Moresy. I know people have their problems with him, but I can't deny the the music he's had and the influence and honestly with Moresy, it's the humor um that he had and the sarcasm. And then another band that I really love is Queens of the Stone Age. And I feel that

19:44their little lyrical content is is sarcastic and funny and kind of has a little bit of an edge. It's a hard And so, and also, of course, like 9-in nails and the the whole industrial world. Um, I feel like they're a little more like it's humorous, but it's cutting edge. Um, sometimes the truth hurts, sometimes you like it when it hurts. [laughter] So, it's kind of the way I look at my my music. And, um, anyway, I'm sorry. I feel like I'm going off on like random tangents.

20:25No, tangents are so welcome. So, yes, I I I love I love tangents. So, um

20:32Okay. Like I'll just go everywhere

20:35now. I'm on the journey with you. I think we all are. [laughter]

20:40Yeah. But I I I honestly think what's really important and and as far for my music is like a lot of my lyrics if you really listen to them little bit of a

20:51of a type of person or things that I've observed or seen or even sometimes

20:58It's it's like these are cautionary tales and sometimes they're humorous. Like I said, I think you have to kind of throw in that sarcasm and humor because people are funny and people do funny that are sometimes terrible. I don't know, I just didn't have that thing where I just wrote about being in love or being cheated on all the time, you know? Like it's just [sighs] these are other subjects that I find to be darker and more devious.

21:34And here I am setting them to dance music. [laughter]

21:40Like if we can't dance the pain away, what else can you do?

21:45Your music is very dable. By the way, um I I I was wondering um like when you first come up with a song be since you're a drummer, um does does do you think the rhythm comes first for you? I would say. So, I'm very rooted in that. Um, I love coming up with beats. I love mixing beats. I love making things that are anything that kind of like gives a little bit of an element of surprise or like when you listen to it um it it really gives you that feeling like yeah, [laughter] I want to give you that

22:27where the beat is like yes and that coupled with bass because I really do love um like subbase and like boommy bass like I really want I want you to feel it in your chest because That's one thing that I really loved about seeing live music was that um lot a lot of bands I would see the kick drum of the drummer. You would feel it in your chest. You know, you've been to live shows where it's like in or arena or something you're like, "Oh, I love

23:00And so a lot of my like deeper and like um boomier stuff is because I want it's like I want to touch you sonically. [laughter] I want you to feel the vibrations that I'm putting out. And it work. It's there. I mean,

23:18And I use panning and you know, people listen to my stuff in headphones, you'll especially the song succumb to me, which is the last single I put out, the first thing you hear after the beat is like this boommy like right, left.

23:37And I love those kinds of things. Those those kinds of things are like fun to me. It's like putting the little icing. I mean, the little sprinkles on the icing, you know?

23:47Totally. Yeah. And I I just I love um that you were describing it as like a visceral feeling because I feel like it can really really drive home um a message or a lyric when people can really feel the vibrations around it, you know?

24:03Yeah. I I I agree and that's what has always moved me about music. It's like it's an emotional thing and that was really what happened to me when I first saw Depes Mode Live. Not, you know, not to bring it up again, but it it was like so spectacular that my I was emotionally And I think once music does that, it leaves that impression on you forever. You know, the first time you heard whatever random song that really resonates you with you forever, it's because it hits you emotionally. That's why songs like imagine resonates with so many people. And so that [clears throat] to me, I feel like

24:52if you put your emotions into your songs and your music, whether it be happy or not happy, um once it resonates with that person emotionally, you've you've connected.

25:07that's important. Yeah. I think that, you know, the music absolutely um reminds us of of what it is to be human and um

25:19and to be able to explore those things um and look at them and feel them.

25:23Yeah. And also to know that you're not

25:27because I I think that there are a lot of people out there that I mean especially I guess nowadays it seems mental health comes into the forefront a bit and uh you know I think people need those emotional connections and and so I feel that some of the lyrical content or things that I write about I it's like I want people to know that you're not the only one experiencing this particular type of a thing

25:59that it's out there. And

26:05yeah, I mean, I really think that's an important aspect of music. And um when I write my music, it's em it's emotional. I mean, it's it's stuff that I've observed and I see people uh going through. So sometimes I I'm inspired to write about it.

26:26And then it, like I said, put it to dance music. [laughter]

26:30You're like, "Having a bad day, I will make you dance to it." [laughter]

26:37I will say that somehow that always makes things better. [laughter]

26:41It does. I mean, come on. Like I'm a Cure fan, too. And the first thing you hear off of uh one of the Cure songs It doesn't matter if we all die. That's the first lyrics and you're like, "Yes, I know." [laughter] So, it's kind of like that where you hear the lyrics and you're like, "Yes, I know." [laughter]

27:07Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's always incredible when um you hear a lyric or and you feel a lyric and you're like, "Oh, somebody gets it."

27:18It's like a relief almost. Yeah.

27:20Yeah. Yes. And I am always for the underdog because that has been my life story. [laughter] I mean really I've I've I've had a I've had a great life. Um but I was never like a part of any kind of groups or clicks or anything like that. I was kind of like friends with everybody. Like I was friends with athletic types in school with like popular types with you know the it just didn't matter. But I don't know, I always kind of felt like a little bit of a lone wolf. And I think that there's a lot of people who are out there like like me that feel the same

28:00way because we're not all like part of a group or like I definitely was the one that looked different in school. I I pretty much like wanted to be Robert Smith in junior high. And [laughter] you know, I wore like the black blazer with the white shirt and the black pants with the lipstick and all this stuff. Um, so you know, and I guess the good thing about it is that as an adult now, I don't feel as weird being weird, if that makes sense.

28:37Completely. I mean, I feel like um I I speak for as being a fellow lone wolf myself. Um, like I think the more that you just embrace who you are, the more you find other kindred spirits out there. And you might not completely be the same, but at the same time, you have the same idea of like, oh, it's okay to be different.

28:59Yeah. Yes. And and I I definitely want people to know that because, you know, when people feel different and people feel um disconnected from others, which a lot of us have because we're all living life online Um I think music's very important. It certainly helped me. It certainly helped me when when I felt alone. I mean, we we all have sad songs to listen to, but funny enough is when you listen to them, they actually make you feel better in a way,

29:34if that makes any sense.

29:36At least that's how I felt when I listen to The Cure or when I listen to Orisy or The Smith, you know, some of their songs kind of like make you feel a little more human that

29:49these are feelings we have. Not everything's always sunshine rays. [laughter] Life is weird.

29:58And there's a lot of really interesting people that you run into while you're living it.

30:04And it's a spectrum of experience for sure. Absolutely.

30:07It totally is.

30:10So, uh, we're getting, um, a question. We're getting a few questions, but um, just want to say hello to Ken Merman from Sounds and Shadows.

30:19What's up? Thank you for joining us.

30:23Um, Ken is asking, "If you had the chance to redo the soundtrack as sign to any iconic movie, which movie would you do?" And then he was like, "Is it David So, yes. kind of funny enough that you mentioned that. It's kind of weird. Have you been listening to my Facebook feed or something? Or have [laughter] you been sneaking up on me [snorts] somewhere, Ken? I don't know. Got some bushes out the air. I don't know. Um, actually, I've I just finished my next album, which is going to be on Metropolis. I finalized that. And the cover, for some reason, I was very inspired by Blue Velvet.

31:15It's really funny that you mentioned that, Ken, but uh for some reason it just kind of like I don't know.

31:21It was one of those things kind of like you you said, Tash, where a random thing will come to you or just inspire you. And it wasn't like I was just sitting there thinking about David Lynch or anything like that, you know, it but it just kind of came to me one day and I thought, "Oh, that's really cool. I I really like that idea and I like that that vibe because the album has a little bit of a toddy tail to it in a way. So, um yeah.

31:51Yes. And yes, Ken,

31:55so um

31:56we'll see where it goes.

31:57When can we expect this album? Do you have an idea of timeline? I just turned it in today to Metropolis. I know. So crazy. Um yeah. And so, um I'm waiting to hear back what their schedule is and then we'll kind of figure out um the releases. Uh going to have I think we're going to have two more singles and then the second single will just lead up into the release of the album. but I'm not completely sure yet, but I would assume it would be sometime this spring. I mean, how long does an album take once you deliver it?

32:46Six weeks, eight weeks?

32:47I'm not sure. Yeah,

32:50I'm like it it varies, you know. It just depends on their schedule. But but uh that will be coming out. And I have to tell you all that as I said on my Patreon, I said this is this is not your grandma's dark weight industrial album, [laughter] whatever that means. It's a [gasps] I I said you're going to have to have expansive taste. because I'm I kind of am crossing genres, genre bending, I guess. Um, but I have some stuff that's uh that might be very hip-hop relish. If that might sound weird, but don't be scared. [laughter] It's really like don't be scared. [laughter] It's really great. Yeah,

33:58I promise [snorts] you. Um but yeah, it's it it's I I love the album. It's it's great. It's it's different and um yes, you will hear my influences in it. Um there are some pretty hard-hitting beats and good bass and things going on. So, um I don't know. I I have a lot of hopes for this one. I think that it's good stuff.

34:29That's exciting. What's the name of the album? [sighs]

34:33So, I've decided to call it Lam,

34:38which is

34:40in French it means basically it means bite her. I don't know. You put that together with Blue Velvet. I don't know. You get some Lynchian vampire story, I think. Maybe somewhere in there.

35:02I love it.

35:04It's uh It's very I'm aiming to be very styl, you know, I I really love high fashion and super models and like that whole vibe and stuff like that. So, it's kind of interesting the um the way the album ended up um coming together was it u it almost tells a story a bit and uh it's got this like dreamy tragic cool way vibby druggy disco vampire club vibes. It's just kind of all over the place. But yeah, I'm excited about it. It's gonna be

35:52Yeah, it's going to be

35:54exciting journey.

35:56It really is. Um I would say the opening track is definitely going to open your eyes. And that's all I'll say is you'll be like, "Oh,

36:13somebody took your vitamins today."

36:21Oh my gosh, it sounds amazing. And I love that you're like really expanding because like I I feel like um every album of yours has been a a different evolution. So I feel like this is a really exciting new evolution for you. Yes, I'm very excited about it, too. And

36:39um the crew that I worked with, uh I work with Awareness, who is the hip-hop producer from Denver that I I worked on the song Dark Matters. He he and that was the first song he and I did together. And I was just blown away. I was like, "Wow, this guy gets it." because um I've told the story before, but funny enough, I when I first started to work with him, he had put something together for me and sent it over and said, "What do you think of this kind of musical piece and I I liked it. It had kind of a dark wave feel,

37:18maybe some synth wave, pop pop stuff kind of feel, which I liked." But I told him, I said, "Uh, can you do this but darker?" And then what he came back with was what we made into dark matters because I was like, "Whoa, you went way dark. I love it." [laughter] So after that, we were like bros, you know, [laughter] after he did that, I was just like, "Oh yes, he gets me." And so I brought him on for this next album and he kicked ass yet again. And I also have a guest vocal um from one of his um collaborators named Time. Uh Time and Awareness both

38:03have a band called Calm. So they they do things mostly in the hip-hop uh I guess after their music or whatever. Um, so yeah, it was kind of like a a nice little cross over with he and I because he wasn't so familiar with all the kind of music that I liked and I'm not that familiar with the stuff he So it I thought it made a good mix. So we're like learning about each other's scenes and um a lot of the music that um we worked on for this album, it is just I mean I I really I believe in it. I think it's going to be great. Um,

38:45and I also brought on Curse. So, Curse Mackey has also helped me with some of the tracks which are great because he always has a an awesome production and like lots of ddads and fun things that make cool noises. So, um, [laughter]

39:05so yeah, I mean, and this this album is going to be the one that I've done the most self-p prodducing. There are I would say four four or five maybe four songs on the album are completely just

39:24I know. I didn't use anyone else. I was like and and really it was just a challenge. I I love using collaborators. I love having co-producers and getting everyone's feedback. But for some reason, I don't know. I just really felt like I want to try to do something on my own just for funsies to see how it goes, see how I feel about it. And um and I have to say that I'm happy with me. I'm just glad that I I mean I feel like I put I don't know, maybe you guys can tell me. Maybe you'll listen to the album and be like, "Oh."

40:04[laughter] Or maybe you'll be like, "Oh, I knew which one she did by herself. I'm just joking. I'm kidding. But really, I mean, I don't know. I mean, you know, we've we've all got to try to do things. And um and I just wanted to do it. I really did. I just was like, I want to do these songs on my own just to see how I do. And uh I'm I'm happy with the results. And uh Mark uh mastered it. So, it's sounds banging. It's gonna rattle all the dust off of everyone's [laughter] home. So, you need a dust. You just put my album on. [laughter]

40:51I'll rattle all the dust off your [ __ ] That's my goal.

40:57Yes. Yes. I like that. This is Purpose album. Yes,

41:01it is. It is. It's cleansing of the souls. Cleansing of the house. Yes. Yes.

41:07Speaking of live, I know you're playing in um Phoenix next month.

41:13Um and I was wondering,

41:15are you going to be um uh playing any of your new songs from from the album?

41:22Yeah, [laughter] I I'm I'm pretty sure of it. Um Yeah. So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to change my intro and uh try to put in some new songs and see how the flow goes. Um, lately live I've been doing a pretty like hard-hitting set. I haven't really added in many things that are down tempo or slower, so I don't know. We'll see what happens. I mean, um, I I'm just open to all the possibilities this year as far as my live show and also adding in people. I've actually talked to um time and awareness about possibly joining me on stage if we do a show in Denver because

42:16they're both based there. Um, so who knows, you know, I might have two more people on stage with me one day. I I I just don't know. But I'm open to it. Open to seeing where it all goes. And I'm I'm ready to kind of give it a little bit of a change from the last couple of years.

42:37Yeah. Do you have um uh like a specific um tour that's coming up or are you doing more like oneoffs for right now?

42:49Just doing oneoffs for right now. Yeah.

42:51Uh, I I think really because I was so focused on finishing the album, I didn't really want to dive into tour planning right away, especially after Curse and I had been I mean, all of August, we didn't even see our house. It's like, where do we live? You know, whose socks are these? [laughter] You get to that point. But um you know we after we came back from the long tour that we did we just you know it was the holidays and I wanted to finish the album. That was kind of the one thing I really really wanted to do. And so as far as touring goes,

43:36um I don't foresee anything happening until after April possibly because you know the beginning of the year through March is like South by Southwest here in Austin and sometimes I help out there, sometimes I don't. But I usually like to just bypass March completely. [laughter] but yeah, I mean in the future possibly, but um don't have any real plans right this moment. We're just going to do that uh Phoenix show February 26 at Club and um see where it goes from there, but I'm open to it. I was curious actually um when you were talking about because I've I've seen you when you've been mid tour um and I was

44:28just wondering like what is your recovery process like after a tour?

44:35I want to do as little as possible.

44:41That's about it. I mean it's it's like

44:45I don't ever want to see another protein bar. [laughter] Um, what else? don't want to live out a suitcase. You know, it's pretty much coming off of tour. You just go home and try to enjoy your house again. Really? Um, but yeah, doing a whole lot of nothing. It's fun.

45:09Yeah, it really is. [laughter]

45:12Yeah, especially when you've done a whole lot of everything, you know? I mean, being on tour, as you know, it's very taxing on your body and sometimes you eat dinner, sometimes you don't. Sometimes you sleep, sometimes you don't. I mean, it just really will just put you through the ringer. So by the time I get home, I I just like doing nothing. Relaxing, doing some self-care, put mask on, hang out, pet my doggy. [laughter] Got it. I feel like there's always like this in between time before you like actually arrive. Like there's sort of like the in between, you know, the landing and then finding the flow again like with being

46:01at home.

46:01Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean for the first I don't know how many weeks your house is a tornado of just gear and luggage and crap is everywhere. And um I'm I'm the kind of person that I actually don't like I have one of those brains that I don't function well when there's like just crap everywhere. I feel like oh I'm being like closed in on all this stuff. [laughter] So I'm very much like okay I'll at least try to put some stuff away. Okay, I'll try to unpack and kind of clear out the area so I feel a little more at ease because I think once you come home and

46:42all your everywhere, all I think about is I have to put it away at some point.

46:50So, a lot of the times I try to do at least some if I can put it all away, but I mean it's it's just part of the transition like you said. You come home and you just slowly kind of put your life back

47:08And then by that time it's time to pack and go again. [laughter] It always happens that way. I'm like, I just unpacked. [laughter] Now I'm going to throw the same stuff back in the same bag. But it's it's all good. I mean, we we love going on the road and stuff. It's just um but yeah, we try to balance that out and that's why this whole end of the year after August, we were just like staying home.

47:40Yeah. Yeah.

47:43well, one

47:45Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

47:47Oh, I was just saying like recovery and like taking care of yourself is really

47:52Yeah. I mean, I think it's just as important as the output, you know, because the more if you run down, you just really don't have anything to give at that point.

48:04Oh, yeah. And and and that's another reason why my album's kind of taken a while to come out because when I actually was on schedule to deliver it like a year ago. I mean it's kind of interesting the way it happened because absolutely now the in its form it's a different album than it would have been a year ago.

48:34I don't really feel weird that it's coming out later than it was supposed to, but a lot of stuff has happened. And what really put me behind was we we started going on these backto-back tours. And so while I was working on music, we had a big tour going on and then once we got back, we had to turn around and Curse was on the pig tour. So then we went on that and then once we got home from that I went out with Nice Reb. [laughter and gasps] So it was kind of like one tour after the other happened and that's really what put me behind. So

49:14it was all good stuff. I mean, I loved being out on the road playing with Curse and then also helping him with Pig and then of course, you know, working with Bon and doing nice rep shows was like a dream. And so, Metropolis was really great and they just said, you know, just take your time and do it right and come to us when you're ready. that's kind of how it all happened. And I I'm actually glad it did because there are songs on there that didn't exist back then. So, a lot has happened and I learned a lot while I was on the road and I

49:55learned a lot while I was playing with Night's Reb. So, those things have really helped shape the album too in a way. So, my even even my live experiences have helped me. So, I mean, yeah, that that's kind of how it goes. And like you said, in that that in between period of coming back from the road,

50:18you don't really like sink right into

50:21Takes you a while, but when you've got another tour waiting for you around the corner, it's very hard to get back into I mean, a week is not enough.

50:32as you know, a week is not enough. It's got to be like at least two [laughter] at home. So, but again, I'm I'm happy with the way everything happened and um all all of our tour scheduling has been great and all the shows have been awesome. So, um I'm looking forward to this year. Uh, I would really love to do a tour kind of in in support of the album, but I'm not quite sure what I want to do yet or who's going to be around or up for pairing up or I don't know. I'm always like I'm always open. I mean, and and I'm I'm I'm also like open

51:12to other genres that might fit. And I, like I said, I'm kind of I'm in my expanding period.

51:24It's like the pizza dough. You put me in the bowl and now I'm like getting bigger. [laughter]

51:29And then later you can smash me out and put me in the oven and call me done. So that's kind of where I'm at right now. I want to

51:40Yay for the Yay for the pizza era.

51:44I know. It's that pizza dough era.

51:49I was I was um curious actually because you were talking about and and I really felt it when you were talking about how it's it's very um felt like almost sensual that the way you were describing it. It was very specifically visual. So I was curious if you have any music videos that are you're brewing up around the album.

52:12I do. Ah, [laughter]

52:15I do. Uh, I actually have So, let me tell you a sad story.

52:21Oh, no.

52:23So, I actually had a video for my song Control that was made. It was pretty much almost done and then uh my hard drive crashed and I haven't been able to recover it. So, that's a bummer. Um, I may try and recreate that video again because I do have like the raw footage. I would just have to put it all back together again. And I'm like, oh no. Um, so that might be kind of like an archivey video that might come later because we we shot footage for it for a long time ago and now it's just like whatever. Anyway, that's one thing. And then um I do have a video for Succumb to

53:02Me that I'm putting together. The last thing I think I need to do is actually shoot video of myself and integrate all that. Um, but really what I would love in my dream of dreams is I would love to make a video for every song on this album because it has a story. Like I swear it's like weirdly it follows this kind of story from this how should I describe it? I mean, I only use like Hollywood and stuff as an example, but it does it it can be anything that you're wanting. It was like that pinnacle of the thing like I'm moving out to LA to be a star. Whatever

53:46it is, I'm going to wherever to be a star. And so, it kind of follows this story through to the bit to end. I'm not going to ruin it for you, but [laughter] we'll see how it ends. But if if I had my wish, I would love to do a video for every song. Um it's not out of the question. Uh especially if I don't go on tour anytime soon. It could be something that I could focus on. Um but yes, I do have one for succ. It's one of the songs I did on my own. So, um if I could put a video together,

54:34I would. Oh, and you know what? Um one thing that I do want to do and I will put it out there is I love putting other people in my videos. Like so my love high video from when I first started, I actually recruited a bunch of my friends and a lot of like Austin kind of um local personalities, DJs and such to come and be in my video, which I like. I like having that community. And the video turned out gorgeous. It was beautiful. So, I am toying with the idea of of possibly seeing if I can include others in some of these new videos in the way of like

55:22I'm not sure how I want to do it yet. I I might have some people in mind that I might just approach and say, "Hey, can do you mind filming yourself?" Because I mean I it's no mystery that I'm my own [laughter] I don't I do my videos. I do everything. Um but that's how I worked my video with Chris Connelly when I did the song Desolate District. I just had him film himself singing or actually he wasn't singing. I just said, "Can you film yourself and send me some footage and then I'll incorporate that." And so I did the same with the dancer in the

55:59video. She's actually um in Singapore

56:03um had I I gave them the song and took the performance and then manipulated that. So I I just really like having that. It's almost like I let other others see their vision and then bring it to me and then I kind of put it all together. So, I'm toying with that idea um of seeing if I can get some other uh in the way of like I guess showing like a little bit of a

56:41Of these

56:43people. It doesn't I mean whoever it is that ends up being there. But I don't know. I have a lot of ideas. I I always have a million ideas. is I just don't have enough me to do them all. we'll see how it goes. But yes, if I have my dream of dreams, I would love to have a video for every song.

57:07Yeah, that would be really really cool because like uh when you were talking about the story part, I was like I would love to see how it threads together. I think that'd be really really really cool to see. Yeah, for sure.

57:18Yeah. Yeah. I I mean I I always have ideas and we'll see what happens. But I like I like I I like your openness to flow. Like it seems like that's just kind of like an ethos for you.

57:35Um has that always been part of your

57:40Yeah, I would say so. Um, I I'm very adaptable and uh it really doesn't matter. I guess it's kind of like um well, I'm a Pisces, you know, so we're We're the little shape shifters. We're like, you want me to be a lizard, I'll be a lizard. You want me a rabbit, I'll be a rabbit. You know, so I I mean, it's always been that way. And I think that's why I'm kind of like friends with everyone. Like I don't have anyone particular people that I'm friends with or anything. It's just like I get along with everybody. I It's just kind of the way I've always been. And um

58:26and I like other people's opinions and ideas and creativity. I mean there there's there's so many amazing people out there, incredible And um I I love bringing them all together and just kind of having a good creative community. No matter what really doesn't matter where you came from, everyone has a cool story if you talk to them and if you listen, which some people don't know how to do, but [laughter]

58:59I mean,

59:00yeah. No, absolutely. And and you know, really the world is much smaller than we realize. I think

59:07it is. It really is.

59:10I mean, think of it now. I mean, all the these bands and artists are accessible now. Like, you can contact them. There's DMs and there's, you know, all the you can go on social media, whereas before you couldn't talk to any anyone. You would never have contact with Peter Murphy or any one like that. And now it's just so different where everyone's out there.

59:39So quite a different life than before.

59:44yeah. Well, um I know that you um started sign um before the pandemic um and you were playing live um and then obviously we saw like a real shift happen um you know where we couldn't play live shows but then there was live streaming and I do feel like the digital community really came together like even more so during that time.

1:00:09Um yeah.

1:00:12Yes, I really like that too. Um I Definitely the the I mean it it's it's good to have a community online because sometimes people can't go anywhere and whether it be just they're not able to fly out to go see shows or do whatever whatever random thing it is. Um online is always good for that as far as like having that kind of support. But I think it's important to make sure that you find the right spaces for that because I mean face it like it online stuff's crazy and

1:00:54sometimes not very good for us. And um so I think that's where it's important that you just find the people that really care for you and you stay with them. And that's what really raises us all up. And I've seen quite a few people actually come around and just introduce themselves. Hey, I'm so and so and I have a I'm a DJ or Twitch. and everyone embraces them

1:01:23and and we're always open to um to learning about what you do. And I I just posted on my Facebook page recently asking people to introduce themselves and tell us what you do. I mean I I don't care if you're not a musician like who knows we whatever you do you might you know make things out of wood or you might be an artist. You might be whatever. I always want to know what people are doing.

1:01:52Just because you you never know. I mean, you you find someone, you're like, "Oh, you're a painter. Oh, that's so cool. I want to see your work. Wow, that's really great. I'd love to use that for my album." Or whatever it is. It It's great to have community and not always be around the same kinds of people. Like, I love being around musicians and I learn things from them, but I also want to learn about other people and I want to learn about other crafts and what what people do. I mean whether you're whatever hobbies you have like sure let's talk about it you know I

1:02:23think that's what really forms a community is where it's like everyone can just express themselves and talk about the things they love and have people support them.

1:02:34Yeah absolutely. I think that the world is a better place when people have that um feeling of of safety and community and knowing that you know their expressions will be heard

1:02:47you know and celebrated.

1:02:50Yes. And the other thing I have to say about that whole being online is you really have to just mind yourself I feel like there are a lot of um instigators out there whether they be real people or not they just they want to inflame and I always tell people like if this if your action doesn't serve you shouldn't do it. Like it's not worth doing. Like if you post online, oh it's a beautiful day, and someone comes behind you and goes, it sucks, man. It's raining. And you just go, wow, sucks to be you. And you move on. And you don't have to say anything.

1:03:40Yeah. that person can have their opinion, whatever, but it doesn't I feel like sometimes people engage too much to where it's just it's time wasting. And honestly, I think that's what a lot of these instigators are just there for is just time waste. So that's just my advice for anyone who's online or who finds community online is just think about what serves you best. And if and most likely arguing with isn't going to serve you very well because that's what they want. They want to suck your life blood out of you and you're like, "No, no." To me, I feel like no, I don't have time for that. I

1:04:23actually have stuff going on in real life here or things that whatever. Anyway, I'm sorry I'm going off on a tangent, but I just feel like now it's it's just very treacherous out there at times and people find

1:04:37um then you know they they want to defend and they want to say their opinions. that in some ways I I just I just think that if you don't engage and you really pay attention to what's happening in your life and you continue on that path, you can't go wrong. You can't go wrong. I mean, who cares if somebody thinks whatever the [ __ ] they think? You got stuff to do.

1:05:09I always tell people that. Like I've had people come up to me and try to start drama and go, "Oh, did you see what so and so said about whatever the hell I'm like I I haven't and I hope they find what they're looking for. What do you want for me?" You know, I'm like I have I I got that over there to do.

1:05:29So, I don't know. I just don't want people to lose sight of themselves really. I mean, and I'm talking about all the creatives and and anyone who's doing anything for themselves, like business or creative, like just just keep your wits about you when it comes to social media and find comfort in in the social circles that really serve you and that you know, who really care. And other than that, all else a waste. It's a waste.

1:05:56Yeah. Yeah. I think um well, first of all, your tangents are wonderful. I love your tangents, [laughter]

1:06:07but I I love that you bring up the the idea of embracing like creativity and versus the destructiveness, the deconstruction and to just kind kind of follow the energy of of the construction, you know,

1:06:25because um I think it's in deconstructing that it it it can turn Um, and to like you were saying, it's amazing how much time everything takes. Um, whether you're create actually creating something or whether something is taking time and energy away from you. And gosh, I wish there was more than 24 hours, but there just isn't.

1:06:49if I [laughter] wish there was one working me and then me where I could like have ice cream and sit out somewhere. But yeah,

1:07:00I think we need to work on a clone I mean, something [laughter]

1:07:07I don't know. Wasn't there a there was a movie Simplicity was it? Multiplicity was it? Oh, man.

1:07:15I haven't seen that. I haven't seen this one. Yeah.

1:07:18Oh, well, I think it's like an 80s movie or something, I think. And so the guy makes a clone of himself and then and then the clones start making clones of themselves and they start deterior like degrading in like intelligence or something and I'm like oh no. [laughter] So I don't know that might be a little

1:07:46Yeah, I see your

1:07:48We sh We shall see. I don't know.

1:07:50Yes. But yes, I actually would like a clone of myself too to like help me. But um you know, I get I get stuff done when I get them done and

1:08:01try my best really with all the time and and unit. You know how it is. It's like we're our own everything.

1:08:09Yeah. Well, it was something that you

1:08:13you said earlier um that [clears throat] the album turned out differently because of the restriction. you were like, you know, I had this extra year and I took this time and it it would have turned out differently otherwise. So,

1:08:27I think um in some ways those restrictions actually maybe create even more beautiful work, you know.

1:08:34Yeah. Well, I I think that's really the the main idea is that I' I've mean I used to get really anxious whenever I would have times where I felt pressed like I needed to do something or hurry up, get this done or whatever. Um, and then after a while I was just like, you know, things happen when they're supposed to, and that's really it. I I can't go back and change anything. It's it is I know I mean sounds kind of dumb to say it is what it is, but it's it that's kind of how I look at it. Like I was very frustrated that my album was being

1:09:17pushed back every time I had to go and do something and get back on the road and repack and I'm like h haven't had any time to even look at this, you know?

1:09:26Yeah. Um, but after a while I was a little frustrated, but then after a while I was like, you know, it'll come out when it does. And the events that are taking place in life, whatever pieces of it, I'm supposed to miss, if that makes sense. It's kind of like

1:09:47when you think back and you go, well, if my album would have come out a year ago, I wouldn't have gotten these other And so now that I feel like I've waited longer, I've learned more. I've I've learned a lot more about just marketing your band, being out there, making the most best use of my time and best use of all the efforts that I put out to grow the band. So, I wouldn't have known that before. So, I really just tried to tell myself that this this like I call it empty time. I'm like this empty time is meant for something.

1:10:31When you feel like, oh, I'm not doing anything or how come I'm not accomplishing something or why can't I find whatever it is, you just have to think to yourself, this quiet time is for something. It's either for me to rest or find something within myself, whatever it is that I need from this quiet time. And then when it's ready, it'll be there. And it is it happens every time like that. And so I think it's really you just frame your your thinking and don't feel like, oh, I'm late. I missed out. Well, you know, how many other albums have come out in the last

1:11:16Well, now those albums are out and now my album can come out. You know, it's kind of like everything just takes place and it's all in a sequence and it's And it might so happen that my album's now coming out in a in a particular time that might be great for me to line up with someone who wants to tour who just put an album out, too

1:11:37and didn't do it a year ago. So, I don't know. I just that really helps me with like feeling depressed or sad about things like that and and things like you know if you apply for a festival or whatever it is and then you get the the no response you're like that's a bummer but in maybe you weren't quite ready for it and the next time you apply you're going to be higher up on the hopefully because you'll have had that experience and that growth. And so that's the way I look at nos when people say no or they bypass you because I used to get upset or sad about it like oh man

1:12:24wrong nobody likes me whatever [laughter] I mean we all go through that initial phase of like what am I doing but in the end I know I will be received when I'm ready to be by whatever it is I'm looking for [laughter] which I'm still looking But that's really how how I survive is um knowing that my time is will be there, you know, whatever it is and it'll be right and it won't be the wrong time. It won't be a waste. It'll be everything that I've wanted. So that's why I don't mind waiting And I I really believe that this new album, I mean, I I don't know, maybe I'm

1:13:12nutty, but I feel really good about it. [gasps] I do. I think it's going to be great. I think the next single is going to kill it. So happy.

1:13:25I absolutely love that. I I think it's it's such an amazing thing to to see um an accomplished artist, but somebody that can actually say like, "I'm really excited about my work.

1:13:40I'm really excited about what's to come." Like, I think that's so inspiring. Um because I feel like it's so easy to um be so hard on ourselves. I think um so many artists I know are very self-critical. Um, but to actually say like I've I've I've created something that I am genuinely excited about, that's amazing.

1:14:03Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's we're always very critical of ourselves and um I mean even to this day sometimes I see live video and I'm like gh I mean because you don't really ever look at yourself like on you know I mean it's and I'm fine. Everything's fine but you know how it is. It's just you seeing you and you're like, "Oh, is that Looney Tunes?" [laughter] But um you know that that that's that's just the human condition. You know, it's like we're always going to be a little critical of ourselves and and and when we speak it's that same thing. We hear ourselves in our head. So we sound

1:14:46different when we hear ourselves on the outside and it's like is that what I sound like? Wow. So, [laughter] it's it's all that um self-awareness, I guess, whatever it is. But I know ultimately like, believe me, I've I've gone through all my doubts and my music does not sound like everyone else's and I get that and sometimes that's offputting and whatever. You know, I if someone's like, "Oh, your music sucks." My answer is it wasn't made for you. I mean, if someone says my music sucks, my answer is it just wasn't made for you. There's nothing wrong with that. It just wasn't made for people who go, "Oh,

1:15:33I get it." Because my I think one of the things I always think is funny is that in our I guess scene, um, you know, there's people who are like, "Oh, I want to hear something different. Something different. Let's hear something new. and then I put something out and they're like, "Not like that." [laughter] Then I'm like, "Oh, I have to rethink this next one." I mean, you know, I mean, it's it's a joke, but for real, there it's it's it's true. They're

1:16:13Yeah, it's there there's there's something for everyone. And I I do have thoughts that maybe my new album might get mixed reviews. I'm not sure. It just depends. It just depends on the person's willing to expand their mind on music. Honestly, that's really it. So, when you hear my album,

1:16:39it like I said, it's not going to be your your grandma's goth industrial dark wave album. it'll be influenced by it and it's there. All that stuff is in there because that's part of who I am. But I've definitely expanded on some sounds and um yeah, we'll see what happens. But I ain't scared. I've never been scared. [laughter] Maybe that's what's wrong with me.

1:17:08I don't know if it's something that's wrong with you or more like awesome about you.

1:17:13Oh my god. [laughter] I'm very much like what? No. [gasps] I mean, really, but that's the that's the end, you know? It's like you make music for the people who get it, and the people who don't like your music, it wasn't meant for them.

1:17:28Plain and simple.

1:17:30I don't like every every band's music out there, but I'm not I'm also not um tied to a genre. Like, I I like all songs of all genres. If you got a good song, I'm all about it. I really I mean really I it doesn't matter what genre you are, but it happens to be that this is my where I live and this is where I grew up in this dark genre. Um, but it's definitely not everything who I am, but it's it's the root. You know, I still have my closet full of dark clothes [laughter] you know, all black everything all the time. [laughter]

1:18:18I mean, and I and I I don't know. I always used to joke. I'm like, well, no one ever really asked Johnny Cash why we're black all the time. So

1:18:30this is chill. So

1:18:32but I like I like that you were um you know saying earlier in our chat that um you would be open to playing with artists from different styles and I think that could be a really cool

1:18:45um talking about expansion but different ways to expand the sign universe is getting to play different styled artist. So yeah. Well, well, I am I'm all for it and I' I've been for it for a while because and funny enough that that this is all mentioned because um there was a um an artist named Zely who is a hip-hop artist. He lives in LA You may not know him, but um he's in Austin and we were friends when I was in Dead Love Club and he had we he had like opened for us and stuff. It was actually really fun. And so, um, he had a band

1:19:24called Blasph USA, which was him and actually, um, Kevin from Urban Heat was in the band as playing percussion. So, it's like a hip-hop ensemble, the three of them. Um, and Kevin was in a band called Night Hecklers, which was also like very hip-hoppy kind of. And so they had a residency here in Austin and I told Zelia I was like, I would love to play that. He's like, all right, cool. So I actually played one of the and um another one of the acts that was there was a a guy named Reggie and he has a a project called um Blacklight Hip Hop and he was actually on Queer Eye for

1:20:15the Straight Guy, I think. just recently, funny enough. Anyway, but um I went and played that show as sign and I had band members and so it was like basically me and a bunch of hip-hop acts. And let me tell you, it was the funnest ever. I had a great time and they accepted me and they they weren't like, "Oh, who's this little vampire?" Like, [laughter] "What the hell is this shit?" You know? I mean, they everyone was awesome. We had a a fantastic time and I'm still friends with well I haven't talked to Zay in a while and of course Kevin is in Urban

1:20:51Heat so I mean funny enough we just saw him at the grocery store because we actually do normal stuff like regular people. [laughter] but that was that was fun. I had a great time and I loved being included. And um when I I did that whole TV show that villains were black during the um thing the pandemic uh I even played like Blacklight Hip Hop videos and I really loved the music and it was great. Um liked his messaging. So to me I'm I'm open. Uh, I mean I think you know I'll say it in a Duran Duran quote lyric. You turned your refu wait see what does he say? You

1:21:46built your refuge turns you captive all the same. And I'm like yes you built your refuge turns you captive all the same. Same. That's what I mean. Why limit yourself? Why put yourself in this little area where you're like, I'm comfy here. No, take that wall down. Go some more. Do some stuff. Meet some people. Meet some people that maybe wouldn't have listened to you before, but they do now because you know them. And that that was kind of like my bridge with with awareness and time and learning about their whole scene. And I I really I mean I'm actually hoping to get a show out in

1:22:23Denver and have those guys on. But um but yeah, I mean it's all about the good music and good vibes. And um oh and another thing that I did this past year was uh I played this thing called here in Austin. And I applied for it just for fun cuz it's like an all female like DJ party And it's like two days. It's crowded. It's awesome like really uplifting event for the female DJ community. So they had like DJs from LA and all this stuff. And I was one of two bands that got accepted to play this Babestock fest. And and I was so happy. I was like, "Wow, this is

1:23:13fun because I get to meet new people that I've never known before." And I mean there I mean, seriously, there's nothing wrong with like being in your scene or whatever. That's fun. Um I just like exploring and I was happy that they chose me. Um, even like I didn't know who the promoters were. I didn't know them personally, but when we got there, we met them. It was it was a lot of fun and I got to meet a lot of great people and connect with this like amazing female DJ world. And I would have never seen that if I wouldn't have just opened myself up to

1:23:54going other places, which I'm always interested in doing. And I always tell my fans on Facebook or wherever, whoever is following me, I'm like, I'm going to take you with me. Let's go.

1:24:11It won't be boring. I don't know where I'm going, but it won't be boring. Like

1:24:17but yeah, I I love meeting new Yeah. I mean, I feel like that's something that's it's like, you know, with all the tours that you've done that it's like it lends itself to that where you are constantly meeting new people like every single day,

1:24:33you know?

1:24:34Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, you almost can't avoid it while you're out there. It's like, "Hey, are you guys in a

1:24:43I'm like, "What gave us away? The all black or the black band or both?

1:24:52So yeah, we definitely meet a lot of a lot of people on the road.

1:24:58I was curious like um if you had like um any wisdom for an artist starting out um you know just I guess starting out with their music and also starting out with touring like what kind of wisdom would you share with them? Uh, I would say your greatest trait is going to be your own resilience. For real. Um, because being an artist and starting out is hard. I'm not going to lie. It's it's a difficult path. There are a lot of people who do music and now we've got this crazy ass like AI music going on. I mean I I I would always say like try

1:25:49to be the artisan of your craft.

1:25:52It's like the people who are really sculpting something, those are the artisans of your craft. So the people who really create their music from a a genuine place, I think that's really all you can is just be yourself. Do not try to be anyone else. The last thing you want to do is just note fornotee. Like I mean I I don't know. I've heard some things where I feel like wow that is the exact same song but with some different And I understand that familiarity is something that people will hold on to and think, oh, if I put a song that sounds like this, then

1:26:46people are going to like me. But sometimes it's not just as simple as that because you can do that and yes, it sounds good, but then in the end it's like, are you really ready for this? And when I say when you're really really ready for this is when you go out and be an artist, you're a public figure, And I'm not naturally that way. Like I didn't grow up wanting to be a lead singer or anything kind of thing like that. It just didn't occur to me. And so I've just kind of been thrown into this situation. And and I still learn everything, you know, I

1:27:26still learn things every day. But um but really it's it's res resilience that's going to save you is where when people don't respond to your music or when people don't ask you to come on tour or do whatever, you can't buckle. You have to just keep going. And even if there's people along the way that kind of fall off of your life, that's okay because there are so many people in this world that for everyone that falls off or is like, "Oh, I don't like you or you suck or whatever." There's going to be someone who really appreciates you and your effort in the things that you do. And so you can't

1:28:08lose sight of that. Just because one little scene or one little section of Facebook or some Facebook group doesn't respond to your music or whatever it is, it doesn't mean you're the worst or you you can't do it. You can do it. And I mean really it it's your perseverance and your willingness to put yourself out there and keep doing it no matter what. And you have to don't care what other people say. I've had people say weird things about me all the time and I'm like, okay, you know, it's get a little giggle and you move on, you know? I mean, because the the people who know you, the

1:28:51people who like your music, they'll be there for you. And that's really it. You have to think to yourself, all right, well, even if I get a hundred people to like my music, that's 100 people. I mean, that's nothing to sneeze at. And yes, everyone could be like, "Oh, well, I've got tens of thousands of whatever the hells." Well, you know, those tens of whatever the hells on Facebook, they could be gone in two seconds. And Facebook crashes or Facebook goes away, then those everybody, all that's gone. What we have is you. You and the the the work you put out. That's what's going to

1:29:27matter the most much more than any other number you see on on any of these platforms because those numbers don't prove your worth. So that's really what I have to say. And as far as touring goes, get in shape. I mean, I have to say if you're wanting to go on tour, get in shape because it's very physical. You will be carrying things. You will be walking up and downstairs. You'll be going to places that don't have elevators [laughter] where you're like, I have I have to bring my base cabinet. What up? What? Yeah, there's many times like that. I mean I you know so you really have to be

1:30:19fit in some way to if you're expecting to go on any kind of lengthy tour because it's just a lot. Learn to to deal without food, learn to deal without sleep and sometimes you might not get your coffee first thing in the morning. I mean, these are, [laughter] you know, there are many times where it's like I I always kind of joke. I'm like, if you're the kind of person that's like, "Don't talk to me until I have coffee." You're probably not going to make it on tour.

1:30:50I'm just kidding, really. But seriously, sometimes, you know, sometimes you're like, "Okay, we just got back to our hotel at 4:00 in the morning and then we have to wake up at 8 and be wheels on the ground going at 8:00 a.m. It happens sometimes and you're like, I don't even have time to get coffee or whatever and you just had to stop somewhere." So again, I guess that's more of like your resilience um just in every way, physical, mental resilience and also um uh one thing that curse has been really focused on is like stoicism. So um he has a book actually coming out

1:31:27called the sound philosophy and it uh deals with this very subject of people actively go on tour, people who want to go on tour. Um it's basically just kind of mixing those those situations with And I'm a big believer in that too because I mean, believe me, I can be just as like angry and outrageous as anyone. [laughter] But but in the end, it's just like I don't know. You just you just have to be ready for things and just deal with them as they come. and like [ __ ] does happen and as long as you can deal with those kinds of things and kind of roll

1:32:13with punches and also stand up for

1:32:17you'll be fine doing music and you'll be fine doing touring. So really that's it. I mean you this is not for the weakhearted and I'm not trying to discourage anyone but you know firsthand with you you all tour as well. It's it's demanding. It's demanding and being in the music biz is demanding and sometimes it feels thankless but again in the end like for me I I look at the the people that follow me or come to see me and I'm thankful for every single one of them and I tell them all the time that I thank them for just being a part of my crazy journey. And

1:33:06you know, but really it's it and and it's because they chose to listen and I'm thankful, grateful.

1:33:17Yeah. I feel like that's foundational really is is um is the gratitude. Absolutely.

1:33:25Yeah. Yeah. I think that can really lift you um in some of the darker times is just to remember the things to be grateful for,

1:33:33you know. talking about the resilience, you know.

1:33:36Yeah. And take your vitamin D.

1:33:41I'm serious. It'll help with the depression. [laughter]

1:33:44Yes. Yes.

1:33:45Because, you know, us pale types don't go out that much. So, [laughter]

1:33:50yeah. But I think that it's actually, you know, um it's a muscle. Like resilience is a muscle that, you know, um I feel like some people naturally have it and then some people if you don't have it um it's something that is like a muscle that the more you exercise it like standing up for yourself that can be very hard um and I do feel like those are things that you have to sometimes just be like okay this is something I need to just continue to try to do um and it gets easier with time I

1:34:24yeah I agree I think it's a very important thing to do is uh just know what you will and will not stand for

1:34:34because I've been run over enough. [laughter] I'm tired of being run over. from like I mean I I would I I would rather choose a more [sighs] I guess complete path for myself rather something that is unfulfilling if that makes sense. like you know

1:35:09it's it's you just have to make your choices of again what serves you what you're willing to put up with and when I say put up with you know it's like how how strong is that you know in you because it's the music business is nutty it just is it always will be

1:35:31and you can't give up because AI is making music I'm telling you that stuff's going to pass at some point. It's going to be it's obvious. People can see it. You know, it's I'm not afraid of AI music. Um I don't think it's going to take my place. I don't think it's going to take any of our places because it can't go anywhere.

1:35:53It's not someone. It's not a person. It's like a thing. So, I don't know. Anyway.

1:36:02Yeah. I ain't scared. Let's go. 2026. Let's do this. [laughter]

1:36:12Come on. Let's go.

1:36:13I mean, you just I love again going back to um your music. Um I just love that you bring such an empowered um and very passionate and intentional um philosophy um to to your work and to the way you live. Um, and I feel like it's a message that's honestly not just something that can be applied to artists, but like everyone I think everyone can definitely learn from that.

1:36:43I agree. I agree. It's pretty universal, I feel. Um, you know, keeping your head on it's good for every [laughter] every aspect of life. Yeah. Well, I I I really appreciate you, Rona. I love um you as a person, what you create. Um

1:37:06yeah, it's it's always such a joy to get to intersect with you. Um

1:37:12yeah, I I feel like you

1:37:15like so much beauty into the world. Um and so yeah, I know I speak for other people when I say we are so grateful for you. Yeah.

1:37:25Oh, thank you. So, I am with you as well. Yes, you guys have been awesome and I mean I really I really enjoy watching your path as well. It's been

1:37:35Thank you.

1:37:36Yes. 2026. Let's kick it in the ass. Let's do it. Come on, Tash.

1:37:39Yes. [laughter]

1:37:41Um and all of you out there,

1:37:43we uh you mentioned Curse. We're actually gonna have Curse um on Unwritten Rules of the Road next month and I'm really excited about that.

1:37:51Talk about philosophy. So yeah.

1:37:54Yes, he he's got a lot going on and it's really awesome. It's like talking about expanding. I mean that guy's gonna have an empire. I'm gonna be like tugging on a shirt like hello. [laughter] just kidding.

1:38:11Hi. Hello. [laughter]

1:38:12I know. Hi.

1:38:17Yeah. So, it's gonna be awesome. Be

1:38:19You're a force yourself, Rena.

1:38:22Thank you. Oh, thank you. And thank and I just want to say thanks to all that showed up to watch live and chat and everything. Thank you all so much for that. Really means a lot to me. And uh yeah, I'll have news out about the album and singles and whatnot. That that should be coming soon. Um like I said, I just sent it's fresh today. Just got done and finished out out the dough.

1:38:48It's so exciting. Um, well, we shared your links on our Facebook event page, but just so that we have it out loud. Um, where are our favorite places for people to connect with you, Rena?

1:39:00Okay. Uh, you can go to sign.band, which is the website, and you can sign up for my newsletter there. That's going to be guaranteed communication because, um, social media, you know, they sometimes show you stuff, sometimes they don't. Um, Facebook and Instagram are both signed, banned, official. Uh YouTube is slashsign TV that's pretty much it really. I mean you can pretty much get me there and then I have a Patreon as well. So I'm kind of here there and everywhere. But um but the newsletters are you'll definitely get communications about shows and things because it always breaks my heart when I see people go, "Oh, why didn't I

1:39:44know about this? I just found out about this." this. I'm like, do not rely on

1:39:50They do not want you to see stuff,

1:39:54okay? So, if you want to know where I'm at, definitely sign up for the um newsletter or you can hop on my Patreon or whatever. But, um yeah, I appreciate you. Thank you so much again and thank you all out there.

1:40:09Yeah, thank you all so much for um continuing to support Unwritten Rules of the Road. Um, Rona is our last guest for January, but we are excited for February coming up. Um, we're gonna have Mark Thuait who plays guitar for Gary Newman and Peter Murphy. Um, I you mentioned Peter Murphy and I was like,

1:40:29well, yes, we happened to play on stage together that night.

1:40:34I was part of the band.

1:40:36I love the small world. I love the small world. It's It's so amazing. Um, I'm also gonna have um [clears throat]

1:40:44I will tell Mark that um that you said hi. [laughter]

1:40:47Yeah, because it's like oh boy that's I mean it's so funny because that was the actually the first time I ever met Mark and then I I mean that was before we found out Peter wasn't going to show up and then afterwards like oh well I met you and played show with you all the same day. So that was the whole Orlando thing. If anyone doesn't know, go you can search Orlando Peter Murphy.

1:41:13Check out the show on YouTube. It's pretty epic. Highly

1:41:16Oh, yes. It's all documented there, too. But yeah, tell them we said hey.

1:41:22Yes, absolutely. Um Yes. And and we're going to have Curse and we're going to have Daniel Graves from Aesthetic Perfection as well.

1:41:30Um I've learned I've learned a lot from him actually. Very educational. Yeah, I watched his talk Dark Force Fest. So, yeah, smart guy.

1:41:40Yeah, I feel like it's like I have so I'm so grateful for um you and everyone else for being willing to share your wisdom and um again, Rona, you're you're such an amazing artist and person.

1:41:53Thank you.

1:41:54Thank you so much again.

1:41:55All right. Well, you go have a good night. Thanks so much. Many love.