Naika Malveaux / DJ Whisperwish, in full

0:31Hi friends. I am Tash and this is Unwritten Rules of the Road and we are joined today by my wonderful dear friends Naika. Um Naika, thank you so much for being here today.

0:45Thank you for having me. It's so good to see you again and talk with you. Oh, I am sorry. I forgot to mute myself on one of the things and I was experiencing um echo. [laughter] We were just talking Naika was doing um we did a whole bunch of um pandemic live streams and Naika actually DJed on several of them and we were just talking about the fun of all the tech that goes behind live streams. So, [laughter] h So, Naika, how are things? I see you have some really exciting events coming up. You just put on some amazing shows.

1:25Yep. I've got all kinds of things always going on. Probably not as not as much as people want me to do. I'm trying to be a lot more selective. But yeah, we've got some pretty good shows in different places is what I like the most is that I can say that we do it in different places for different people, different audience, different styles of music. you know, expanding what we used to do as Havoc and just presenting it in a broader form. I mean, like you were talking about when we used to do the pandemic, we DJed online for a while. We did an Alice show. We did lots of Alice

1:57shows. You guys should check that out. By the way,

2:00I appreciate the love. I love the shirt, too, by the way.

2:03I'm [laughter] wearing the shirt.

2:05Oh, that's some love.

2:07I get so many compliments on you guys' shirts. Actually, I rediscovered this one. And I usually wear the other two that I first got.

2:15And I was like tearing my closet apart looking for which shirt I'm going to wear. Who am I going to promote? Who am I? I'm like naturally I'm I'm wear my Alice shirt. And then I'm like, "Oh, I forgot about this one. I hadn't had this one in a while."

2:27Oh, I love it so much. Oh, yes.

2:30They're all so good.

2:32Thank you. We work with such incredible artists. So that's a DA deafany. Um amazingness. Yes. So, yes. Um, yeah. So, I I know you just put on um the Crew Shadows Night sign show for World Goth

2:51That was the Houston one.

2:53Yes. And I thought that it was really cool that you actually did that around the World Goth Day. And I was I was curious actually, was this like just a inspired idea? Um,

3:04so um over the years I've become more selective of when I'm going to do my shows. Um, there's of course Halloween and then you kind of just branch out from Halloween. It's like, okay, what am I going to do, you know, leading up to and which which dates are going to pick and world goth day has been one that has been stuck out there and it fell on a weekend and of course you know um the goth scene is in my opinion still expanding and people are still discovering it and there's so much to be said about it. I was like, I have not done a world goth holiday event. And so

3:34I put that one together um after doing a couple of Obsidian ones. And um it was really it was really cool to do. I definitely loved doing it and you know, par to the bands that I usually produce, you know, on the stage. So it was

3:51That's awesome. Yeah. I I was I mean it's really you always have such interesting lineups around events and so yeah I mean have you always like kind of created your shows in that way or is this kind of a new

4:06a new approach?

4:06Actually a lot of thought and planning goes into it. It's it's weird because a lot of people just book shows to have like different bands in different lineups. But um one thing I like to say about having events, it's an experience like you know with the DJing and the the bands and the way that it's selected. You know sometimes we do like bands that don't normally compliment each other but you're like I would have never have heard that music if I hadn't gone to this Alice show and it was really cool that they opened for them. And so I I've always loved mixing it up, hence the

4:35name Havoc. Um it it it's done on purpose and it gives people such a broader experience than a normal clubbing experience, a normal concert experience. A lot of times we pay a lot of money to go to these venues um these large venues and go to concerts and it's like where's the dancing in between the bands, you know, where's the, you know, they're socializing and stuff and there's going to get your drinks and all that, but you know, really a live DJ would be really awesome right about now until the next band. So that's the way we go about it. That's awesome. And and you mentioned

5:09that you've been branching out into different cities as well.

5:12Yeah. Um, one thing about doing is I have a lot of contacts with a lot of other cities, which, you know, will lead me into some of my future stuff I'm working on is we people don't realize how much we communicate behind the scenes. Like when we know like a big headliner is coming through, you know, they're looking for all these dates. It's like when by the time the audience sees that flyer that's got all the tour dates, there was probably like 6 months of communications with all those venues to get that flyer done. So, um yeah, it's nice having multiple locations to be able to help that chain. We kind of

5:45do that naturally, but um I like hopping around and doing the different locations more than staying in one place. I've always been good at it, so I kind of like just dive into doing it more now.

5:56Yeah, that's awesome. Um, like did you primarily start out in Houston?

6:05Yep. Houston was my start. Um, it was quite accidental. I did not look to get into doing this.

6:12So, how did you get into it?

6:13So, I did a lot of club flyers. My primary skill is marketing, which I love. And I've marketed corporations, um, oil and gas business, finance business, mom and pop businesses, bands, nightclubs. So, I got into it by doing marketing for a nightclub. I usually [clears throat] don't tell the story. It's funny. Um, and they've spent like $20,000 on a college night grand opening. And at the time, I'd been designing flyers for a lot of Houston's clubs. um the Roxy and um I worked at advertising agency and that's literally all they did was like flyers for the city on a weekly basis and it was back

6:51in those days where like the flyer was the thing to have.

6:54Um and this I um had my marketing company in the back of a nightclub actually. He offered me um space a good friend of mine he had a massive space um in Houston called Club Space. It even had a library in the club. It had like three rooms, a library, like it was a kind of place 24 hours you can just enjoy yourself and unwind. Really cool place. So, I had an office in the back of this place and we went to um this Asian restaurant that was selling sushi and they spent like $20,000 on their college night grand opening and they brought me in to be a marketing

7:28consultant and they're like, you know, we spent all this money, we're going to do the grand opening, but we want you to do, you know, all the flowers and everything from moving forward. Well, I went to the opening night. I was very excited. I was like, "Cool. This is going to be a cool new client." And then like two people showed up. So, I was like, "Oh my god, I'm so sorry. Like, I would have told you $20,000 could be spent in so many other ways, but they're like, "Do you want to throw a party?" And I'm like, they're like, "We don't know what to do. Do you

7:54want to throw a party?" And I'm like, "I know a good amount of cool DJs and people that need the opportunity to present themselves." I'm like, I will absolutely throw a party in your sushi restaurant, you know, on Chimney Rock in Richmond in Houston.

8:08I know there I know that place.

8:11Yeah. Yeah. I booked my first band there. Sarah from Shock was my first band with um Asia's X locals and um it was really good. I think we had like well over 100 people on the first night and um just kind of started from there, you know, like st snowball rolled down the hill.

8:28Wow. And so you were hooked at at that

8:32Yeah, I'd always liked um doing the marketing for it has always been my passion. Um all the rest of the stuff kind of, you know, you learn as you go. You know, I had never done a a a band or a performance or any of that stuff before, but I knew who I wanted to play and I knew how to design a flyer and I knew how to market a an event and um yeah, it just it happened to work out pretty well. And you know, um, there's a lot of different methods to making it work besides just designing a good flyer and putting a nice band on there. But,

9:03you know, it became I don't know how many years ago I even started that now, like 20 plus years, you know, since that that happen stance situation.

9:14So, what are things that help make it

9:18So, things that help make it work. Gosh, there's I I always say getting out on the street and passing out that flyer to people at different events and meeting people and shaking hands and like putting it on telephone posts and cars. Like you even see large companies do this. We take it for granted. We think digital is like, you know, you put your flyer on digital and you send it out to everybody by email or by messenger on Facebook, they're going to get it and they're going to come. And then it's like, no, they'll come more when you go to, you know, this other band's event

9:51you're checking out and you shake their hand, you hand them fire and say, "Come to my event." That al that's always worked really well.

9:57That's one really

9:59one thing I like to try to do. I teach my team to do this. Um, when I can't do it as much, um, other people that work with us, they do it, the bands do it. You know, you teach bands to do it as well. So, that's one of the things. That's awesome. So, Davey um Davey Demon Htown says, "I did that canvas thing last night."

10:20Good job, Davey. Davey and I have been talking a lot lately about how to do this and he wanted my help and I'm I'm I'm sorry I haven't got back to him too much. Like, I've got a lot on my plate. literally just got back from traveling from some shows and um we were talking about it and I got him a show at BF um and yeah there's different methods to then just being on the flyer and just showing up and playing your music if you want people to show up you know they like to get to know you like just doing this podcast of them you know like the

10:51the amount of people that Alice gets to come to their shows because you do things like this it really makes a big difference being a part of the

11:00Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I don't know, just in in kind of looking at your history and all the Gosh, you have worked with so many artists like

11:11that's such a testament to that, right?

11:13It's funny cuz nowadays, this is the reason why I have, we were talking about the vinyl that I have on my wall. I didn't take pictures of anything that I did back in those days, like when I first started is because I was so new at it. I had no idea I would look back and be like, "Oh, I sat with this and this person, you know, I know TSH from way back when at the Jet Lounge, you know, like I look back, I'm like, where did I take pictures? I was so busy working."

11:39I feel you. [laughter]

11:40So now I try to collect something from like each of my shows and do the picture, you know? Like now we have social media, so doing the picture is like a big thing, but back then it wasn't a big thing, you know? Like so now I make sure I at least do that. Yes. Yes. It's And it's it's really awesome when you actually see like you're reminded because sometimes you can forget like it's it can be such a flurry when you get really busy

12:04and then you can look back. Yeah. Total blur and then you can be like, "Oh, I remember that show. That was a great

12:11It was funny because I I I have to remember that constantly. I had a show with Ice Peak and um I was doing my boots and setting up my stuff and the band came over to say hi to me and I was like, "Hold on, give me a second. I'm still setting up my stuff." And then before I knew it, like it was the end of the show. I never really got to say hi to them. They were getting on their tour bus and going to the next stop. I'm like, "Ah, I did it again." [laughter]

12:39Well, it's a lot to juggle, though. It really is a lot to juggle.

12:43Yeah. Yeah. I think um when you're putting together shows, it's like you you're working with so many different moving parts.

12:51It is. It is. People don't realize how early we show up. Like doors might be 8 and we've been there since like minimum four o'clock.

13:00Wow. Yeah. So, what what is setup like? Uh walk me through a day in the life like on of of a show day.

13:07Oh my gosh. So, I've actually started making this a part of the um fan experience. people that come to the club, you know, to buy an extra ticket. Like we did it with the World Goth Day with um Crew Shadows and Rogue. Um we had people come in during like the setup and the sound check. So they get to experience the whole setup because when you walk through the door and you come at a certain hour and you know like music's already going, it's completely different than watching all the chaos. And it's so cool sharing people that chaos. I've actually started doing videos of it, live streaming the setup,

13:39you know, like we were talking before we were doing this. I'm like, just let people see the soundcheck stuff. Like, I love it.

13:46I love that. Like, I So, I went to a Ronstein show. It was year before last and it blew my mind. They had a crew of 400 and obviously that's a much larger scale, but I've always been curious as to like what goes on behind the scenes to make a show what it is, right? So,

14:03yeah, there's up 24 hours before. Or if you like look at everything that's going on besides the music sounding amazing the stage this the stage show you know the videos working you know the sound check Ronstein like sets up 24 to 48 hours ahead and that's not even a lot of time in my opinion so

14:23I mean yeah all things considered it's wild yeah but yeah I think that's really I mean it's it's you know when you think about all the moving parts and the people you know as well that you're having to like you know, manage and stuff. Um, you must really love what you

14:42It's a lovehate relationship. Like I love it in short burst. Like once I'm done with the show, I don't want to think about it for another month until the next one.

14:52Um, but yeah, I love like the 24 hours before, you know, that buildup to it. That's when I get the most excited about what I'm doing. Um, the whole rest of it I'm like, why why did I do this? like, you know, what's what is the reasons for all this, you know, and then, you know, you see the happy people at the end of the show and the messages that come in afterwards and the bands getting all these new likes and people wearing their new merch, then you're like, that's why I do it.

15:19I love that because that's real love. That's real love, you know.

15:23The love for music, you know, music is very unifying, you know. Yeah. I mean, I I was I was curious like how like how you discover music because I mean you you you really have like quite a diverse um catalog that you play that you work with. So yeah,

15:43you have no idea. I have so much music. That's another reason why I got into this is um before I did club stuff um while I was doing the club flyers, I owned a website called Realm Gotha. It was very popular. you know, being a marketer, I designed a website in the vein of music that I liked and stuff that I like. So, I did interviews kind of like this podcast on um musicians, um writers, artists, and models. And I did that every week. I would do somebody. And one of the things that inspired me to do that is like I get free music.

16:15I had people sending me music all the time to my PO box and there was so many to do reviews, you know? I have like I still have all that music to this day. I collect music. I love music as much as I can get my hands on. I have a file cabinet full of CDs of burnt music and things people have given me and just a lot of music. Like I love I love having it. I love being able to play it. I love being able to teach people new music that's out there and you know where it all came from. You know, it's so great

16:46now that it's digital. It makes it so much easier.

16:49Yes, absolutely. Um Oh, it's so cool. Um, uh, I I'm sorry if I mispronounced this, but I think it's Views of View. Um, said, "Na gave my progressive metal band our first show in Houston way back in the early 2000s, and I've been a big fan of his ever

17:06I love that.

17:07I'm very proud of him. I'm working with him. He's actually in In the Shadows, the band that I'm working with right

17:13So, yeah, that's how far we go back. Um, Tash, you and I go back a long ways. It's like, oh, people have no idea the stories of,

17:20you know, when you first came to Houston to play for a show with us, you know, look at you now and all the stuff the technology and where we are.

17:27Yeah, it's wild. I mean, it's it's I really love it's like talking about the music community, like the community aspect where you make real friendships and um well, I like to think of it as chosen family as well, [laughter] you know. But it's awesome because it's like when you get to see your friends like growing um and you're growing in tandem with each other where you're like, "Oh, wow. Look at this cool thing that you're doing right now." And and you get to grow together, too. So, yeah.

17:56Yeah. Yeah. And you support each other and help each other out. We we're still doing that same thing, you know, putting him on stage way back when, you know, putting him on stage every chance I can get now, you know, and like we're we're doing it more on a business level now, you know. um to the point where all the contacts that I have and the other venues that I talk to, I'm like, you know, this is the bands you should be putting out, you know, and you know, whenever you got a headliner coming through, here's a good opener for you. And exchanging that information. Um

18:26it's funny because John with the Allesium um in Austin, he and I used to do that on a regular basis. We talk talk

18:33Yeah, I love John.

18:34We communicate so much behind the scenes. And it's funny as I was going back and I was watching some of your videos, John mentioned, you know, um, how do you get booked and, you know, how does it all work and how do you get those shows and stuff? It's like it's because we have a network of people that know each other in the background and we communicate and we talk about what band, you know, would be good to open for this fest or this, you know.

18:58Yeah. Yeah. I see that. I absolutely see that. And um and I see that happen happening um in in different regions. Um it's very very cool because I see different promoters helping each other where like if a band's coming through, you know, they all kind of try to work together in tandem and that really helps bands like myself when you're, you know, indie and you're like booking your own shows and you're like, well, how do I go about like going through Texas,

19:25right? Going through Texas alone is like out of a lot of the tour path like people don't know if you come from California through El Paso. It's hot down there. There's a good chance your tour bus might not make it. So, we're like, you know, we're on the other side like, have they got past El Paso? You know, just things you need to [laughter] know about.

19:45It's true. It's a whole And it's huge. Like, if people haven't experienced Texas yet, it's like, okay, just be prepared. There are going to be some very long drives. [laughter]

19:54Very long drives. I drive all over the state and it's crazy how big this state

19:59Yeah. Are there like like certain key cities that you would recommend to a touring band going through Texas?

20:07Oh my gosh. Most bands do it right. You know, it's not hard to look at the bigger artists and see what they're doing, but when you're a small band and you're just starting, like I like to teach people like don't try to do Dallas. Don't try to do Houston. You know, you're thinking like the center of the mass of population. There's so many other little cities around Houston, many cities around Dallas, many cities around LA. You know, as long as you're playing and you're getting out there in that area and people love your music, they'll come to you. You know, um Houston, um there's places in the north side, the

20:42south side, the east side, and you still feel like, God, it takes a long time to get from one side of Houston to the other. Like, so um yeah. Um I recommend playing wherever you can play. There's even like you guys played for me in Witchah Falls, Texas.

20:59I remember that. Yes.

21:01Like they're thirsty for music out here. They don't get a lot of Alice and everybody that went to that show like you could tell their jaws were just

21:09It was such a sweet show. I've loved all our shows, but it's just it's awesome. I, you know, growing up in love myself, I'm like I have an appreciation for like, you know, communities that aren't necessarily huge like huge large cities. I mean, those are fun, too. Don't get me wrong. It's awesome. But I have a a very special place in my heart for being like, "Okay, let's just let's just play the show, right?" And like, it's it's awesome where you can like really feel like you connect connect to people um in a very unique way. I think um I think sometimes when there's like really large

21:43shows or large festivals, I mean, it's great. I mean, there's a lot of people, but at the same time, it feels like you can get lost in the mix, you know?

21:50For sure. Yeah. I I specialize on the smaller shows. I prefer the smaller shows. Um I get pulled toward the larger shows sometimes, but um I still love the opportunity to put a band on their on the stage for the very first time. Like that that is always one bragging right that I go for, you know, discovery.

22:10Yes. Yes. That's awesome. So like um if a band were to want to work with you for the first time um like how do you actually go about like selecting the bands as they if they approach you?

22:26It depends on what you mean by working with me. There's like do you want to just do a show? Do you want like guidance? Do you want to be in front of a big headliner? Cuz like your first show I'm not going to put you in front of a big headliner. I have a place that I have, you know, that's a smaller venue and it's good to test out because, you know, I don't know how many times they've played, you know, for, you know, certain venues, you know, have they ever been on stage before. Do they know how to work with a sound guy? Do they know

22:52how to work with lighting? Do they know how to work with video? So, I like to bring bands on to something realistic that they can do first, you know, try them out. And also, you know, what's their audience like? And when their audience is good, like I always guarantee you like I'll bring them on to a bigger show once I see how you handle the the basic stuff, which isn't usually so basic. Like basic is not the best word for it, but the madness, how you handle the madness, you know, if you're going to open up for, you know, um, Thrill Kill Cult, you know, you've got

23:24to be, you know, on your game.

23:27Okay. Okay. So, break this down for me. like what would be some very basic things, you know, for maybe a new band wouldn't know.

23:35You'd be surprised how many bands don't show up on time for loading. Like

23:39I I just did a venue myself that reminded me how strict loading can be

23:45timing, you know,

23:46I like to be there 30 minutes before everybody. So

23:50to make sure they know where the loadin doors, where the park, blah blah blah. Some venues, some venues will email you all that stuff and tell you how to do everything. you know, the bigger you get, they it's very structured. Um, Live Nation events, structured, structured, structured, and you cannot be you can't mess that structure up. Smaller venues, it's like if you show up at 6:00 and I'm there and you can get loading done and you're not just sitting around, you know, like, you know, cuz we got another band coming behind you, we got, you know, the headliner coming behind you, you know. So, if they can get through

24:20all that basic setup stuff in the, you know, smaller venues, then they're good to do the bigger, more professional venues. And that's just something you learn with Dans after you've worked with them over time is like what level of setup are they at? Are they really quick about how they do their stuff? Is their setup quick? Um, do they do they do they know how to do it without help? Um, have they played this venue before? They know where the door is. They know how to, you know, where the green room is, who the sound guy is, you know, the whole

24:51Yeah. I And it's it's funny because like I just I was thinking about the very first show that MKO did. Um and it was at the sports bar and we had never played a show. Well, I had never played show. John had played many many shows before because he was in like different punk and metal bands. But um it it is it can be very daunting when you're learning all this stuff for the first time. You know,

25:12there's a certain etiquette, you know. I love that experience of watching them learn it all for the first time and then, you know, learning from their mistakes. Um, there's always mistakes for almost every show. There's always something that goes on and it's like, how do you handle that? How do they handle that? And, um, we had a show recently in Houston. The sound guy didn't show up.

25:32Okay. Yep. Yep. [laughter] That happens,

25:35right? Things like that.

25:36So, how how is that handled? Yeah. So, one of my um bands actually jumped in. Bug from Synthetic Messiah. He's a sound guy, so he jumped in and ran sound for us, but it made his performance kind of like not as good because he set everybody else up.

25:52So, he did me a huge favor by doing that because I can do sound, but I'm not the best at it. Like, that's not that's not my forte. But, you know, things like that, you learn how to roll with the punches pretty quick. And um I I don't think he's even played that venue before that situation came up. So

26:11yep, [laughter]

26:13the bigger venues, we don't have that issues, but sometimes you even have those issues at bigger venues. So you got to learn how to deal with it.

26:20It's true. It's true. Like you said, rolling with the punches. If the power goes out, you and I was thinking about this today when I had first did my show with Alice for the first time. It was in Houston, downtown Houston, and we had that like epic flood that night. Do you remember

26:38I do. Oh my gosh. [laughter]

26:41Being from Houston, I'm like, "Okay, we're going to be stuck here for a while. We could do our show." There were some people that just wandered in and we knew. I was like, "It's going to flood hard downtown and we are not going nowhere, but we can still do the show."

26:54And we did.

26:55And we did. And it was quite an amazing

26:57It was so fun. Yeah. I think at the heart of it, it's like I think if you still find the joy in what you're doing, like in spite of the bugs, you know.

27:09Yeah. I I I know that um sometimes it's like there can be so much stress involved, you know. Um you know, and and I really think that um one of the tricks is just being like, okay, well, there's this going on, there's this personality that's going on, and like how to navigate that, right? Yeah, deal. It's personality management as well. It's like being the ringer of a circus, you know, the guy that's got the whip and the long cape [laughter] and then there's like the trapeze artist going on and then the spotlight changes and there's this going on. Um I that's how I equivalent, you know, like to like

27:46just a controlled organized circus, you know, entertainment.

27:50Yes. Yes, it is definitely, you know, I always said I was going to run away with the circus and here we are. [laughter]

27:55There you go. Um, oh, uh, so, uh, Master Helsing 8267 says, "I think with food there needs to be allergy notices."

28:06With what?

28:07With food there needs to be allergy

28:10With food at the clubs,

28:12I think so. I think so. Yes.

28:14Oh, for sure. For sure. I am allergic to a lot of things, so

28:17believe me, I know.

28:19Yeah. Um, and Dave Demonhtown says, "That's what Ing and I have been doing, smaller venues out of town and building our fan base. Um, it's already helped catapult our stats when I review the chart and download activity." Exciting. That's awesome. Yes.

28:34The one thing I I've noticed I've been teaching a lot of the bands that I work with is um I think you build up better by doing shows more out of town. There's a lot of bands that play in town every weekend. And it's the first thing I tell them to do. Please stop doing that because that tells your local fans that you're going to be literally playing the next week and they're just going to be like, "Ah, I'll show up later."

28:58You know, um,

28:59work on the out of city shows. Um, they're more fun. People come up cuz they don't they know they don't get to see you. Like Alice comes to town like, I know I'm not going to see Alice again for a year,

29:10so I better show up.

29:12Yeah. Yeah. It's actually we Alice doesn't play LA that often. Um yeah, we we played we played um this past month um and we played our album release show, but actually before that we hadn't played in LA for three years.

29:31Pros at it. You guys are pros at it. If you guys want to learn a lot, learn from Alice and Tash herself. Get to know her. Add her on her socials. I'm not going to tell everybody to message you, but just

29:43how [snorts] she does everything. She's a performer. She's doing these live streams. They've got the technology. They know how to tour. You know, you guys are the full package.

29:53Nika, thank you. That really means a lot coming from you.

29:57You [laughter] have awesome merch.

30:00You really are like the ultimate marketing guy.

30:03I'm your [laughter] promoter. Tash is amazing. I can tell so many stories about how good of a performer you are. Like one of my favorite um I'll tell this. I've been wanting to tell this on a broad audience. You can, as a promoter, get Tash to do her cover of Romstein's Angel for you. [laughter] I used to make this a requirement at all my shows because whether they knew Alice or it was Mankind is obsolete at the time, it whether they knew you or not, when you ended the show with that, they were done. They were just like, [laughter] "When is she coming back? She

30:40was awesome." That ending was like, I don't know. Yes, cuz I always throw that ending in.

30:45I know. You always were like, "Okay, you're playing this, right?" And I'm like, "Yes, we're playing that."

30:53Oh, man. I We've always felt the love. It's We've always felt the love for sure. Yeah.

30:58And that was a small little club that you played that in. That was um Jet Lounge. It was a little small little

31:04Yep. Yep.

31:06Yeah. Back in the day, we actually we are overdue to record that one. Like we've been talking to John about it. So,

31:12oh my god. And John doing the drumming.

31:15Yes. Yes,

31:16that's that's breaking news, folks.

31:18It actually is. I haven't announced it publicly, but I'm like, "Oh, instance."

31:23I love it. Everything you guys do is good. Like, I love all your works. Like, you have so many. It's hard for me to choose a lot of times when I'm DJing which of your tracks that I'm going to throw on.

31:33It's pretty broad. I mean, we've covered a lot of different chapters for sure. We're we're um we're starting to make new music um for our next album and I'm just like I don't even know what's going to come out to be honest. [laughter] I'm like I have no idea. We're just we're going to see what happens. It'll be an adventure.

31:52We got to get somebody to interview you so we can hear your methods and how you guys even do it because I don't think that's even out there.

31:59It's not like I don't know. That'd be that'd be fun. Yeah.

32:03Yeah. [laughter]

32:05Yeah. But anyway, back to you.

32:10I was like, "Oh, no. I'm starting to

32:12I promote bands and Alice is a band."

32:17I appreciate that very much. Yeah. No, I just it's so awesome because I think I've seen the love that you have for for bands, for music, and just like how much, you know, love and enthusiasm you put into it. Um, and it's inspiring because it makes us want to like rise to the occasion when we get to work with you where you're like, "Okay, he's enthusiastic about this. I want to be enthusiastic about this, too, you know."

32:42Well, the fans are very enthusiastic about it. I hear a lot of input from them. Especially as DJing, like bands, talk to your DJs. Like, you need to get DJs to be spinning your music and get feedback from them because they'll tell you exactly what people are liking. you know what part of the song they walked off or did they come to the dance floor after they played a certain song you know so um a lot of bands you know they put put out a lot of music but um the distribution to get it to more places than your live performance is really important so um I always take the input

33:16of what people like you know to my sets of what I'm playing and you know when people ask me like what was that band and I'm happy to show them like your social media pages or share it to them later or whatever ever. So, yeah.

33:28Yeah, that's awesome because I feel like that is such a great place to discover new music. Like when you go out to an event and you hear the DJ like spinning a song and you're like, "What is that?" Um, yeah. Yeah. Do you keep your playlists online? Are there places that people can check it out?

33:44I just started posting them again. I hadn't done that in for a while. I like to be very secretive cuz a lot of people like to like um kind of just like these days people can just copy your stuff and just play it, you know.

33:57I see.

33:58And um one of my friends was asking me like, you know, how do you create your list? And like all everything I play in a night, I'm doing on the fly. I don't even think about it before what I'm going to play. It's all a matter of like how does the crowd feeling? What kind of night is the theme? you know, um, do I see somebody wearing an Alice shirt? I'm going to play them an Alice song or VNV Nation or whoever it is. And, you know, I cater it to how the night is. And I think like I I've been putting them up more lately just because people have

34:30been asking me the names of the bands, but um, every DJ has a different catalog of music and stuff that's out there. So, I I'm trying to do it a lot more so people can like find that catalog of music so they know what to listen to or what they liked, you know, what they liked from a night.

34:49Yeah. No, that's really great. I mean, there's some some nights where you're like, gosh, I'm like I was dancing the whole time, but and you don't want to take the time to like ask about each song, but it's really cool to be able to look back and

35:01you know what's great? It's like something I found out late into the game because I swore I would never use laptops to DJ and here I am. I do laptops. Um, but the laptop records my whole set list. Like I can record the like everything about it, like what time it came on, you know, the beats, you know, and it I can generate the list now. And back in the days, you have to write that all down. Like I played this, I played this, you know, now I'm like, oh, it's all being saved in my computer. Oh my god, this is easy. [laughter]

35:30Yes, we love technology.

35:32Yes. Like I do, too.

35:37Yes, I know. I've always like, you know, like I've loved technology. I've always loved electronic music. Um, DJ music, you know, bands that use electronics. So, yeah, it's awesome to see like how things have progressed. For sure.

35:51Yep. Yep. We live in good times when it comes to the tech.

35:54Living good times. Absolutely.

35:55Moving faster.

35:57Yeah, it's true. So, are you DJing in um different cities as well? Are you traveling to different cities? Funny thing is um for a while I told myself I was just going to focus on DJing, you know, and I enjoyed it and was um quite happy just showing up and playing music, but um I love putting on shows as well. Um it's it's it's a which way am I going to go kind of situation a lot of times. And um one of the reasons why I formed the new record label is because eventually I'm going to stop DJing. Like I keep telling myself I'm going to stop

36:32just just stop DJing and just produce from behind the scenes. I prefer that anyway. Um but I bounce around to different towns and I do shows. I like going with the bands that I'm working with. Like you know if Alice wants to take me on tour, I will go. Like that would be, you know, like awesome, right? Like it's fun because you get to help produce a show and you get to go DJ at the exact same time.

36:54So yeah. Um, but I have to say when I DJ, there's a place in Fort Worth I DJ at now, Jackie O's. When I DJ that place, I don't do a concert at the same time. Like, I'm just pure DJ and they're so receptive out there and so such a good crowd and I get to focus and throw out a lot of music. Um, you'll see it out on my set list how much music I um DJ in one one night. Um, I get a lot of good energy from from doing that as well. You know, like shows, you know how it is. You show up early, you bring all

37:29the gear, you get the band checked in, you get them their dinner, you get the hotel, then we're loading all back out. Like, as a DJ, if I can just DJ every now and then. Like, it really helps out a lot.

37:42I understand. It really does feed the spirit when you have like certain shows that it's like you have a singular job.

37:50That's one thing. Yes, big contrast.

37:53Big contrast for sure because I I do gigs as a keyboardist as well. Um, and it's like so different when I'm just playing keyboards versus like I'm the one that's like managing and booking and wearing all the hats, you know, in Ellis. So, it's it's nice to have those. I mean, I would never take the other parts away, you know, but

38:13Yeah, for sure. It's nice to have this the shows that are singular.

38:19Yeah. So, um, so you like touring?

38:23I do, um, to some degree. Like, um, I have never done like what you guys do. Like, 26 stops all around. Like, and then I'm going to go do an international after this. Like, I don't know if I'm ready to do all that. Like, [laughter] I've been offered to do it and I've been asked to do it. I'm like, I don't know if I want to do that. Like, that I've seen what you guys do and it's it's amazing, but I would probably be in a hospital somewhere. I see these bands, they get sick on the road or they come through and they're not feeling well and

38:53they need like all the nourishment and yoga in the backyard, you know, like

39:00I know we do our things. Yes, there is like self-care involved like like a lot of self-care involved on tour to stay healthy. Yeah. bands that do all that like do pool tours like you know go to their shows buy the merch you know like it's not just the performing like and these bands that do it professionally really big of course they've got big crews and like Romstein even Romstein like you know you go from city to city where you don't have time to even recognize where you are and you're performing for the audience it's it's it's a job and it's amazing that they pull that off you know like all the

39:37dates and all the occasions and, you know, travel arrangements and eating healthy. John, you know, did your first podcast on here and he's a drummer. He's an amazing drummer. He he used to drum for Mankind's Obsolete. He plays for IMX. Now, he has a cookbook, vegan touring, you know, how to be a vegan and tour. I'm like, that's what I'm talking about. That's amazing that, you know, people can do it and do it healthy and do it safely and, you know, make a living out of it. Yeah, absolutely.

40:10I'm not ready to do what John and you guys do. [laughter] No,

40:13you don't want to go through the boot

40:17I'll go with you because it'll be fun. [laughter] Like, we can do this on the road. That would be so great. I would that would make it worthy.

40:23We do have a really good time. I mean, we're just a bunch of nerds really in Alice. But

40:28yeah, it would do it with, too. Like, I want to go with somebody, not just by

40:35Yes, it does make a difference. It's like I've had friends that are solo artists and that they're driving themselves and I know and I'm just like oh my gosh. I'm like you have to keep yourself company for six to eight hours in between stops. [laughter]

40:49Yeah, I could do that part of it but like it would be funner to do the setup and all the different like if I could do like Havoc and I take it on the road and do the whole like this band, this DJ, all of it and do it on the road that would be cool because then you know I'm working with the right group. But showing up just at each place by yourself, loading in and doing all of it to completely new audiences. Wow. Like

41:14that's amazing that you guys do that.

41:16It's a different thing. It is very fun though when you are like you were saying, you end up with the right people because then it's like you have these bonds for life. Like you you create these stories and these memories together that's just really special and

41:32Yeah. There's good parts of it. I am I'm kind of spoiled. I like going in my club and I know where all the exits are. I know where the best food places are. I know, you know, which hotel that you should stay at and, you know, who lives in this town and all that stuff. Like, I like I like the knowing the clubs inside out, you know. So, if I did do a tour, I would study every place I went to so I can do the exact same thing again the next time.

41:58See, this is what would make you a fantastic tour manager, too. [laughter]

42:02I know. I think about that, too. being like, "Should I be a tour manager?"

42:06I MEAN, YOU'RE saying things and I'm like, "Yeah, that sounds like a really awesome tour manager." [laughter]

42:11I've been offered to do it back in my early days. I had no idea about doing it professionally, but now as I um have done it so much, I like doing it behind the screens like like, "Okay, so your hotel key is not working. Okay, try this." You know, there's someone in this [laughter] town. Stay at their house until we get it figured out, you know? So, there's like the virtual tour manager and then there's like the road tour manager.

42:33Oh, yeah.

42:34I've always hated the tour managers.

42:40I do not like tour managers. As soon as they like, I'm the tour manager. I'm like, I want to talk to Tash.

42:48Well, to be fair, I am the tour manager. So, I just have to wear a different hat.

42:52Yes, you [laughter] are. Yes, you are. For now. For now.

42:55For now. For now. I would have to be the right person. I feel like because we've been DIY like this whole time. Um I I appreciate it's like I really have a deep appreciation for like how much work goes into a show like you were saying like all the people you know um you know your promoter, your street team, your sound person, your lighting person if there is well sometimes it's one person.

43:19There is a lighting person.

43:20If there is even a lighting person there might not be a lighting person.

43:23I experienced that recently. I'm like, it's been a long since I've had no lighting person show up for me. Like, wow. Okay.

43:29Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've we've had the shows where we're we are all the things like all of the above, including the sound person. Usually Gordon Gordon's usually our sound person.

43:39Your whole team is like amazing. You You've got an amazing team.

43:44I do. I am very very grateful and feel very lucky for

43:47Scott Landis. We're talking about you and the technology back [laughter]

43:51Scott's the one behind the scenes, guys. He makes all of this happen.

43:56Yes. All all of this all of this magic.

43:59Yes. And he's a musician and like Yeah. You have an amazing team.

44:03Yeah. Yeah. They are awesome. Absolutely. And it's it's so awesome. I I love being in a band. Like I really love being in a band. Like um cuz there are so many things that I am not very good at. Um and it's great to be a part of a team where I'm like, "Okay, these are the things that I'm I'm better at and these are the things that other people are better at." and then you can kind of share the load, you know.

44:28you're not always in that lucky situation. So, I understand sometimes it takes transitions to get to that right place. So,

44:35for sure. That's why I could never do it on my own. I don't know. I don't That would be scary.

44:41Well, it's really cool. You've been talking about like how you've been working with your team. Um Yeah. Is it the same group of people for a while or

44:51No, a lot of people have gone different ways. You know, this is one of those things you do for the love of it. Like to do it as a job is um it's very difficult. Like you don't make a lot of money. It's a lot of hours. It never pays as much as you know the time we put into doing all this stuff. So when you build a team, you build a team of people that um like doing it, have the same madness that we do. Um, of course they get to come into the club, they get to meet, you know, Alice and all the other

45:19things and, you know, there's a lot of perks to it. They get to learn the business and stuff, but um, I've I've I I've had large teams that worked really well that we would do a Friday and Saturday and we would literally sleep in the club to get it ready for the next day. like

45:36I've done that level of it and then I've done the level where I've got one person

45:41that you know they show up on time with me and that's the only person I want there to get anything that's done because I know that one person is very reliable and um yeah the team is very important you know having different people at different locations especially as I expand you know having different people at different locations to if I if I get held up in traffic you know make sure the venue door is open so the band can start loading and please.

46:06Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I mean, and that's actually a big thing.

46:10It's a huge thing.

46:12It is. [laughter] It's true. Yeah. Yeah. So, I I was actually curious like um do you have like a you know, a big vision um moving forward for Havoc?

46:26I do now. I wish I had a long time ago. Um I learned a lot the hard way. Um, I like the idea of producing bands and um, having the record label doing all the same stuff from behind the scenes. Um, being, you know, I'm I I a lot of the record labels send me music. I'm on their distribution list. It's nice for me to have a distribution list to send to DJs now myself. So, I'm like, okay. Um, yeah, I can do some of the same things for people that don't get that kind of representation and stuff. So, my big picture is to do it more on a

47:06business level. I actually formed the LLC in February for Whisper Wish Entertainment. Um, because I'm like, I have to be very serious about this this time. You know, I have to like really um take the talents, take the knowledge, take the tal, you know, the the musicians talents and do something with it. And we've been working on that since February. And you know, like all things when you have the right team and you have the right talent and you present it to people, people love what you do. And I can already see it growing. And you know, I wish I had been like thought of

47:40this back when I first, you know, did the first show with you. You know, when you're in Mankind is obsolete. You know, I had no idea. Like I had heard of you. I had your CDs. I spun it. People loved it. I'm like, I booked you. But now I'm like, you know, if I had done things way more on a business level, how could I have like captured that ball of energy and helped it along the way at even more than just doing a show?

48:02So that's the stage I'm at now as far as big picture [clears throat]

48:06with the bands that I work with, um, In the Shadows, My Terror, and Draco. Um, I put them in front of bigger artists that match their sound. um send them to different venues that I've worked with or that um I've done research or we've talked behind the scenes and kind of like you know helping smaller bands you know take where they're at and help them to the next level and be that support and you know it's like oh you're stuck in LA well I know Tash is over there and if you can call her up I'm pretty sure she can get you a DI box.

48:43Well, it's true actually. There it's like and it is those things because gosh, we have been in that position. We're like, "Oh, we're in Albuquerque and we need a MIDI controller." So,

48:54Yeah. Yeah. [clears throat] Totally.

48:58Well, I think that's awesome because like you were saying like you've you've been taking all the things that you've been learning all along and able to apply it, you know. Um, which I I mean you come like you said from like over 20 years of of doing this. So,

49:14yep. Yep. I've got to use the knowledge. There's something good. You know, I still want to help bands.

49:18I still want to see, you know, those people get their first chance on stage. I still want to do all that stuff, you know, even if I'm not there DJing it or I'm not there to help with the load. I still want to somehow do it.

49:30Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I love that. I I love that. Every every band needs

49:37like sometimes some help, like the first person to book them in the city. um to take a chance on them. Yeah.

49:44Well, yeah. Yeah. You were saying like Romstein, they've got like a 400 person team. I'm pretty sure that team has gone through a lot of stuff with them.

49:52Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, gosh, I'm like I think about like, you know, some of our first shows in in certain cities where it's like um you know, a promoter or a DJ's taking a chance on you for the first time or a venue is taking a chance on you for the first time and you know, and and you're like, "Okay, well, let's let's figure this out as we go." Um, and it's it it's amazing when you have people that are along the way that like kind of help guide you where they're like, "Hey, try out try out this, try out playing with this band or

50:27working with this person." Yeah.

50:30And every city is so different. Um, you know, like Texas, we like a certain kind of sound, whereas East Coast might like, you know, certain stuff versus West Coast, you know. So there's like a a lot of knowledge to who you're communicating with at all those different stops. You know, who are you even playing for?

50:50Absolutely. I mean, I think it's really um awesome that each city has their own like ethos, you know, each city where there might be like you might go into a city where they're like, "We have no bands that are anything like you." Um and then you're like, "Okay, well, let's just play with a bunch of other bands and let's have a hybrid show and it's awesome." you know,

51:09the hybrid show is the best.

51:11Me, too. [laughter]

51:14Yeah. Yeah. It's so great because I feel like then um you get to listen, first of all, like listen to music you've never heard. Um and yeah, it's it's really cool to like see that come together. So, but yeah, there's definitely cities where I think there's, you know, there's um certain pockets where you're like, "Okay, you know, this is a good dance night or this is a a really good metal night." And Right.

51:37Yeah. Yeah, you just kind of learn it as you go.

51:42Yeah. So, are you um like helping them primarily in Texas or are you starting to look outside of Texas?

51:49Oh, definitely outside and all around Texas. I'm I'm I'm pretty aggressive with my booking. Like, I want to get them to the level of what you guys are touring. I'm actually going to present you with an idea after this. [laughter] I know you're doing your tour next year and you know how it is. You've got to plan around the weather. You know, I can't send them to Colorado in the winter time right now. Even though Colorado has that availability, you just can't do that.

52:14Oh gosh. Oh my gosh. Nico, we have learned the hard way so many times. So many times, like certain places, you don't tour in the snow. Just don't do it. Don't even try.

52:25Summertime, you know, you don't drive through El Paso in August unless you really have a good v vehicle and you did your oil change. Like

52:33Yeah. Oh my gosh, it's so true.

52:35Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah. There's actually a place in California that's like that. It's like it's called the grapevine area. Um and you know, we've had a few breakdowns on the grape vine. So, learning the hard way. I'm sorry. You were going to say,

52:52no, no, just thinking like, yeah, some of the locations are quite far and you know, when you book the tours, of course, you want to have all your dates that match each other and they're in a line that makes sense. I've had people that I see that come into the scene and they're like, "Oh, I'm going to like book these shows for you." Blah, blah, blah. I'm like, they're going to have a nightmare of a time on the road because the way that it is, you're like zigzagging. You're not going from place to place. You didn't think about how big Texas is. You can't book El Paso the day

53:22after Houston. Not going to happen.

53:25Oh, [laughter]

53:27well, Carol, on paper, it looks like Yeah, it's in the same state. It's not going to happen. Oh, I mean it could, but you will be very sleepd deprived.

53:35Something's going to go bad. Like, yeah, something just like have some flights [laughter] ready or something.

53:41Oh, man. Yeah, we've definitely we have made our share of like, you know, like Okay, that this is a good lesson to learn for next time. [laughter]

53:51Yeah. Yeah. Right now, I'm getting them used to doing around Texas, you know, getting on the road, you know, as it is. It's funny because um some bands come to you and they want you to book them a whole tour and I like to like see how the interpersonal relationship of the band is because you've got to travel with each other.

54:11On all these dates. Do you even like each other enough to make that happen?

54:16That is such Yeah. How many times have we've heard it on the news, you know, like this and this band, the guitarist quit because they got into a confrontation, you know, and you've got all these obligations, you know, so just just hanging out with your own bandmates is a challenge sometimes, you know, like can you really do that?

54:34It's so true. That is such a solid question cuz yeah, I mean, you're in a little box in essence like that's your moving apartment, you know, with however many of the of you that there are. And yeah, I mean, you have to just kind of get used to being in the same space if you're not. Um, yeah, fortunately for us, like it's it's funny when we have new people that join us because, um, you know, being musicians, you would think that we're blasting music 24/7 in the van, but it's very quiet. Like, we're

55:04It's very quiet. Like, we're all like individually in our own space. Like, it's super chill when we when we travel.

55:12I'm actually the same way when I'm not doing shows. Like I It's funny cuz I don't listen to a lot of music at specific times, especially leading up to a show. I want that quiet cuz it's like, you know, the quiet before a storm feeling or you're just getting your zen or you're holding all that good music in to let it all out, you know? I get the quiet part on the road. Yes.

55:33Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I think that you need your space in between, especially if you're going to, you know, have that energy, you know.

55:41We're going to stop here. and we're all going to go for a walk and I'm going to go to the top of that hill and then we can carry [laughter] on.

55:50I think it's really I think it's really cool like how you were describing um how you put together your DJ sets because it feels like it comes from a place of intuition and like feeling the room and so I imagine like you have to be really switched on, right, to have that level of awareness.

56:06Yeah. Um um a lot of people ask me that actually like you know how do I come up with my sets? I'm like I don't come up with my sets ahead of time. It's all raw. Like it's exactly what felt right at the moment. You know what the mood of the environment was? Or is there something political that just happened and this song just kind of speaks to that? or, you know, or is this band coming in into town soon, so I'm going to play a little bit of more of their music to give them some pre-promotion, you know, because I know Alice is coming

56:37soon or whatever. Um, and you got to be fluid because you could go to a night and you think you're going to play these 20 songs. You think they're going to love it and they just might not. You know, maybe something happened in their community that they don't want to hear that right now. So, you've got to be fluid to play something that works for

56:55whatever you're in front of. Um, so I always make mine up on the fly as I go. And that's always done me better than trying to plan anything because plans never go well in this business sometimes. You know, you could plan a lot and then you know the one thing you didn't plan for was the mood of the night, you know.

57:14Oh gosh, that's true. I mean, have you always known that? Has that always been kind of your way of being?

57:20I've always taken a temperature of the night, taken, you know, like if it raining, you know, are we going to have a rainy night? Is it going to be a hot night? You know, um um all kinds of different things. Take, you know, consideration into the kind of night that you're doing. Is it so and so's birthday? So and so birthday loves this band and they dance a lot. I'm probably going to play that person's three of their top songs, you know.

57:43Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That gosh, that makes all the sense. And I I'm it probably makes it like fun, exciting, and maybe just a little scary like going into it. But you're probably used to it by now, just being like, "Okay, I'm just going to go on the fly."

58:00I I actually have more anxiety doing this than I do DJing. Like DJing, I just go into it like I'm going to play some I I have such a vast knowledge of music and library of music that I can adjust. Like if one song doesn't work, then I know how to adjust to the next song. Um, I I don't usually get nervous DJing. Um, unless it's like a really big show and then like maybe by the time I am more nervous that my laptop's not going to

58:29Like technology stuff, not what I'm going to play. It's more like, okay, does a sound guy going to show up? Does he know how to like play through the right speakers? Is my monitors are going to work? Did I bring my lighting?

58:41You know, things like the technology part makes me nervous. The actual playing the music. No, the music's great already, you know.

58:49Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I think it's like the music speaks for itself and it's just the inbetweens that you have to get through.

58:56Yeah. Yeah. Are you ever nervous about like um shows that you're putting

59:04Uh yeah, probably every time.

59:08every time. Because another thing when you're doing shows, you have to make sure, especially in shows in towns as big as Houston, you have to make sure there's not another show going on that night that,

59:20you know, if if Jack White is playing at White Oak Music Hall or whatever, you know, it might hit a damper on your, you know, your emo night that you're doing or whatever, you know.

59:32there's a lot of like, you know, did I do everything right to make this show at the right place, the right time, you know? How's the weather? Um, are all the bands, you know, [clears throat] gonna show up on time, you know, do their thing? So, there's a lot of nerves in the setups. They're definitely for the setup of the show every time.

59:52Yeah. Yeah, I can I can see that. Yeah. And I mean, gosh, it's like you can it's like you can try to align everything and then sometimes, like you were saying, things will still happen no matter what.

1:00:04Something happens every time. [laughter] Like I could make a bingo card. It's like what is the thing that happened this time?

1:00:11Oh my gosh. [laughter] Yeah. Pick pick one. Is it going to be technology? Is it going to be [laughter]

1:00:20I am very happy when the sound check's done. I'm like, yes.

1:00:23Yes. Yes. It's kind of like in an airport when you finally checked in, you're like, "Okay, we just have to get on the flight and we're good."

1:00:30Yeah. Yeah. As soon as we're in the air, we're on our way.

1:00:33Yes. Yes. Totally.

1:00:35Yeah. I think it's really awesome though because it's like I feel like as as a like and as a DJ it's like you get to meld both worlds and you understand like both sides of the coin as a both a pro promoter and somebody that's performing and knows what it's like to have to be on stage um you know like feeling the energy curating the music all of that so I think it probably gives you a deep understanding of the artist you It does help. Um, but then I've met people that are very compartmentalized that are good at just promoting. For instance,

1:01:13we had um Jane St. James came from Party Monster to one of our events and

1:01:18he's not a DJ, you know, he's he's pure promoter. He is a showman. Like he he has the ability of talking to everybody in the club in the night twice. And remember everything he talked to them about in the previous, you know, conversation on a personal level. I am not that good at promoting and knowing people and doing that part alone. Like, so thank God I can escape to the DJ booth and do pieces that I'm good at, you know, in different times. But there are some people that are just gifted, you know, there are people that are really gifted at just DJing. There are

1:01:51people that are gifted at performing, you know, in a band. And there's people that are gifted at being just a promoter, you know, and um sometimes I wish I would just stick to one thing. But I feel like it makes life a little more interesting when you do get to like, you know,

1:02:11interesting is definitely Yeah. Yeah. If you like life interesting, be a

1:02:16Yeah. [laughter] So if you were to give some advice to people who like want to start promoting you know for the first time like how how would a person go about starting for [clears throat] the first time? I don't know for the first time I don't even remember. Uh, I would say, um, find a team that's already doing it and somebody to mentor you and to not try to like create the event from A to Z yourself.

1:02:47It's going to drive [clears throat] you crazy. You'll get burnt out so quick. You'll be like, I don't know if I want to do this. But if you join a club or a team that's already doing it and learn to roll with that team, you're going to enjoy it so much more. and you're helping a good cause. And you know, one thing I like to always tell people that do promoting is you get into all the shows and the clubs, like

1:03:10that's true. Yeah. Yeah.

1:03:13If you can't afford to, you know, pay the ticket to go all the shows and all the music you like, such as I, I love a lot of music. I cannot go to every concert I want. But I definitely from what I've been doing this, you know, John was, you know, one of the first people when John would come to town, he would message me and say, "Hey, I'm playing for this band. You want to come over?" And I'm like, "Absolutely, John. I'm there."

1:03:33Oh, I love that. Yes. [laughter] Yes. And John drums for like every band at this point. [laughter] Pretty much.

1:03:44I know. [clears throat] I know. It's It's like, okay, it's it's kind of a a concept. Do you know Eric Otisman? He plays keys for area.

1:03:52It's really funny when we all intersect at festivals because it's just like, "Okay, guys, how many bands are you playing in for this one?" [laughter]

1:03:59It's funny when I book a band and then I see the member, some of the people, you know, you think of, you know, the headliner, but then you're like, "Okay,

1:04:07different band members switch out sometimes or they're, you know, they've increased the band and now they've added a new person, you know." And um Cyclone 9 had um Tim Skold in it when I did a go around. Excuse me. I had never worked with him before and he came through with Cyclone 9 and nobody told me that he was on that lineup.

1:04:29Yeah. Oh, really?

1:04:31Yes. [laughter] Like things a promoter would love to

1:04:35Yes. Yes, that's true. [laughter]

1:04:38I think sometimes when you're in the forest itself, you don't think about the trees. So, it might have sort of probably slipped their minds.

1:04:46Each of [laughter] the band members are celebrities of their own right, you know, so they have different crowds that they pull. Um, like IMX is coming in town. Oh, you remember John, you know, from Mankind's obsolete, you know, he's in IMX. Come see him. Like, then I get more people too. Like, yeah.

1:05:05Yeah, it is. It is. I think um a lot of musicians might not think about that um as well because it's just sort of like you know you get focused on the project that you're a part of, right? So you don't really think like oh yeah there's these other things that can help the promoters promote the show. So Right.

1:05:22Right. Yeah.

1:05:24Yeah. But it is cool like we were talking earlier about like when you see because I mean I think the first time you worked with John was with Mankind is obsolete and then just to see the trajectory and to be like oh wow that's so cool that you know

1:05:38every time he comes to town I make a point of going to whatever band he's in or whatever show I try just to go see him. I'm like yes IMX is playing and they're a really awesome band. You should definitely see them on IMX but I'm going to introduce you to John.

1:05:53Yes. Yes. That's awesome. That's awesome. See, and that's what I'm talking about like the friends in the community that you meet,

1:06:01you know?

1:06:02Yeah. Like it's like when we've played with certain bands and we become friends with them, um like no matter what project they end up in, it's awesome because it's like anytime they come into town, if I'm in town, like I try to like catch the shows, you know? So

1:06:16yeah, you've got multiple projects, you know, like you know, it's not always just Alice come in town. You could probably do another Mankind is Obsolete tour and then, you know, I'd be like, I am definitely down to go see that because [laughter] they haven't done that in a while, you know.

1:06:30Yeah. You never know. You never know. We've been, you know, it's been it's been a thing where we were like, we we'll chew on that.

1:06:36It'll happen. [laughter] It'll happen. I

1:06:38Yes. Yes. Yes. It is very fun to sing the music because it's like very different energy. Um, but yeah, I do I do really enjoy getting to sing with the guys and um and we did get to do a couple of things with John. Um, like we did a memorial show for one of our friends and we did some of the live streams um with John. So, we we have done some Mankind stuff. But, um, yeah, that's something we've all been talking about. We're like, okay, we need to figure out how to align

1:07:06because it's like we're always on tour, like all of us. So, it's like, okay, when is when are we all not on tour that we can do a thing?

1:07:14Yeah, I know the process. I I I've listened to you guys and how you all arrange your tours long enough to know this is probably coming eventually.

1:07:25Yes. Yes. Yeah. It's like it's And it's interesting because one of the things you were talking about is um like don't tour Colorado in December, [laughter]

1:07:36right? And then um but that's true of so many regions. Like we learned the hard way, don't tour northeast cuz like we toured um New York um in December. Never again. [laughter]

1:07:48Yeah. Wow. I know. It was it was it was an idea. It was a thought and we did that. So that that was that happens. But um but yeah, so there's just certain times that make more sense for for people to tour. I've talked to different promoters about this too where it's like okay there's certain months that are like really heavy with touring. Um like I know for Texas like South by Southwest um like it's crazy and it's really hard to find shows. Even if you're not a part of South by Southwest during that time

1:08:19um just because it's like flooded. So

1:08:22yeah, if you want to play Austin during South by Southwest it's going to be very difficult. But what I tell people it's not impossible either. There are so many, you know, everybody's coming to Texas for music. Just play one of the other towns, like, you know.

1:08:34Mhm. Yes. Yes. But it's a matter of lining up your tours because there's so many bands that are touring like at that

1:08:42Oh, yeah.

1:08:42So, you know.

1:08:46Yeah. It's pretty crazy because um I you know, you really do have to like plan like months and months and months in advance um when you're putting together a tour. So,

1:08:56yeah. A year in advance for the most part. you have if you want to do a full tour definitely you have to do a year in advance the short stops you know the six months out works really well of course like if a really good band messaged me and they said they wanted to play next month I could probably make it work but you know like I prefer at least two months 6 months one year you know that's very common

1:09:19yeah yeah I think that's it's like yeah it's a good thing to have an idea of time frame you know um yeah cuz I mean it it's interesting. So we're you know we've been playing more festivals um and um you know for us because we're a six piece like we we can't fly out there like they're not going to give us a big enough guarantee to fly us out there. So I have to get us to tour like to get us there and back. Um and so yeah it takes it takes a lot of planning to put that

1:09:51And I'm glad to hear that you guys are doing the festivals. Um, that's one of the things I'm working on is connecting with more festivals as well. Um, to to kind of jump on doing more of those kind of things as well. The same the kind of the same progression you're going through. You know, you can't just do the tour, you know, the festival. You also have to have like a plan on getting there. And I see more bands doing that really well these days. So, um, kudos to you guys. like I've I've seen you grow so, you know, like from a baby to doing

1:10:24your festivals now and the live streams. It's just just amazing that like I know that I was one of the first people to bring you to Houston and Texas.

1:10:33Yes. Yes. But I'm very grateful.

1:10:37No, it's awesome. I'm like, you know, I, you know, little love a girl never in a million years imagined ever being able to play some of the places and have those experiences, you know, and

1:10:50Yeah. And you're from Texas. I tell everybody, I'm like, she's from Texas.

1:10:54Yes, I am.

1:10:55Everybody knows everybody, you've got the LA vibe so well now. Everybody like, "Doesn't she live in LA?" I'm like, "They're always in LA." Yes. But she's [laughter] from Texas. She's

1:11:07She's one of us. I am. [laughter] Yep. Yep. And it's like it's it's really funny though because um telling you that I I think we play more in Texas than LA.

1:11:19Like if you actually look at our our dates, like if you see the history of our dates, I'm like, I think there are actually more Texas dates than LA. So,

1:11:26well, there's a lot more to Texas than, you know, just LA. A lot of bands want to go play LA. And I'm like, okay, LA is great to play, but there's a lot of places to play in LA first off. And you know, everybody in LA. I loved LA. I fell in love with LA when I went out there. Um, everybody's doing what we're doing. There's so much of, you know, entertainment and I got so much free music and met so many artists and stuff. It's hard to like hop out over there. Like, it's hard to break out. So, I like, you know, some of these spots in

1:12:00Texas are just so much easier to work with. you know, there's not 50 other people doing the exact same thing. So, I get you, you know, like doing shows locally in LA um has got to be a challenge on its own. But I saw you guys did one recently and you did like really well because you hadn't played in a while. I think y'all sold that one out.

1:12:23Yeah. I was like, I wanted to go to that show. I was like,

1:12:26oh my gosh. Okay. Next time, let me know if you do. You know, you'll be on the list.

1:12:32I know. [laughter] I need to go over there. Actually, I've got a couple of friends that have been asking me to go to Vegas, LA to visit. So, I'm trying to time it right with like something like that going on.

1:12:42Yes. Yes, that's a good idea because I feel like Vegas and LA are so close that you can actually like hit those spots in the same weekend. So, Right.

1:12:50Yeah. And Vegas got has a great music community there as well. We love playing

1:12:54I was shocked how good of a music thing they have over there. It is underrated. Everybody goes over there for casinos. I was offered so many DJ jobs going over

1:13:06It's got a great scene. Like people are awesome about supporting live music there. So yeah.

1:13:14Honestly, in general like um like I feel a lot of love for the live music scene and I just see like so many places that are so supportive of artists like you know it's awesome.

1:13:25I'm I'm like yeah

1:13:27I'm glad we're back to doing live music. I remember when we went through the co stuff and we first started doing these broadcasts and we still did live shows online and you guys were a genius creating Alice TV and keeping that connection. We like watch concerts in our living room and had us DJs on like you guys are pioneers for sure.

1:13:48Thank you. It meant a lot cuz like I don't know it's I mean I I I felt so sad about seeing so many people um just really suffering like venues closing down and artists having a hard time and you know and just everybody everybody just going through it together and it just felt like it's I'm like you were talking earlier about how music is so universal and is a way of bringing people together and I was like this is the only thing I know to do. Right. It's super therapeutic for people like your music like pick any song and I know people make you guys comments on how

1:14:24like it's changed their life or help them through a difficult situation and all that like the love of what we have for doing the music speaks volumes from the therapy that it gives people. So, you know, having live music again, going into, you know, the clubs and just seeing a good concert and seeing people going around again and growing and getting big, you know, I'm glad that, you know, the live is all back and you know, getting more healthy every day.

1:14:51Yeah, absolutely. And it's so cool to see like um you know people continuing to tour and seeing that it's possible like whether you're on a label or not like no it's just like you can go out there you can you can absolutely get like booked. Uh we're still not on a label so

1:15:09no we guys are on a label

1:15:14we've just been sort of our own little island this whole time.

1:15:17You guys are pretty impressed. It will take a really good label to like improve what you guys do. So, I like I don't know. So, there's something to be said about being an independent artist, you know, like um some of the bands I've worked with, I won't name their names, but um I had no idea that they were on such a strict label when I first booked them. They had never came to Texas and they're huge, you know, goth band now, but they're so controlled like they couldn't even like be on their cell phones during like loadin and soundcheck. I'm like, "Oh, that's what it's like." I'm like, "That's what it's

1:15:50really like." Oh wow.

1:15:52But they're huge band, you know, but their label controls like

1:15:57point A to point Z, you know, like, you know, you have to have like vacation scheduled in to call your friends and family, I guess. I don't know. It's crazy like the level of some of the bands that are produced on labels.

1:16:10Yeah. Gosh, it's it sounds like a different world. Like I'm sure there's method to the madness of of that, you know? Um it's it sounds like such a different way of being. I guess for better or for worse, we've had the the opportunity I want to say um to be very homegrown and to have to learn things some many times the hard way and just to be like, "Okay, well I mean the nice thing though is that you get to make whatever music you want." Right.

1:16:37Like if you're like, I want to make something super heavy, I can do that. Or if I want to make something super light, I can do that, too.

1:16:44Yeah. [laughter] The independence is really awesome. I mean, we all know, we've read like people like Prince, you know, who had a library of music. He was only allowed to put out certain songs or, you know, he had to hold back from them because they weren't, you know, paying him his dues for his music and stuff like that. So, yeah, the big labels can definitely tamper down what an artist wants to do versus being independent. So, it's a wide range.

1:17:09Yeah, it is. I think um I mean there's obviously like it's awesome when you have a team of people, you know, you have people able to like do things probably on a much better bigger level than you can hopefully in theory. Um but like I guess the nice thing about being an indie is that you can learn like how to do all this stuff yourself and then you learn that it's possible. Like you're like, "Oh, I

1:17:33I mean I'm I'm the one that packs all the merch and ships it out." Whereas like a label would be doing that, right?

1:17:40um, yeah, but I put a lot of love into it and so, you know, if anybody orders something that's going to be my hands that put it together and write the notes and, you know, ship it out.

1:17:50You guys have an awesome package. You do your new um, new follower package, new um, fan package. They get like a free package. I don't know if I'm like giving away the farm, but they get like the Alice armband, um, some other stuff, the TE's, and a personalized letter from you guys like, and you're doing it all that yourself. Like she said, she's doing it all herself. Like bands out there that are trying to get to this level. Listen to how I said it before. Look at how Alice does all their stuff. And remember, they are doing it with their own team, their own band members, each doing a role to

1:18:25make it all work. And you guys are playing festivals now and stuff. So,

1:18:31thank you, Na. I guess

1:18:32that's the template you need right there is just watch the people that are already doing it successfully.

1:18:38Yeah. I mean, like yourself, I mean, it's it's like the fact that you're still, you know, you're still doing this and you're doing it at a bigger level, you know, the fact that you've been branching out and you actually are like taking on different roles. Um, you know, I think that's awesome because it's like I feel like if you stay stagnant, you know, like it's it's like it's I can see why people end up dropping off like, you know, it's like you lose a spark for wanting to do it, you know?

1:19:07Yeah. If you stay stagnant and you do it like I like residencies. I like doing it at the same venues, but I do like I have multiple venues, so I kind of pick and choose which show works at different venues. That keeps it very flexible for me. But I've done I I I did a night for two years. It wasn't even related to our music industry for two years every Friday and Saturday. And I want nothing to do with that again for quite a while cuz like I did it every it was a college

1:19:38and it was a popular college night. It was amazing. I have like a whole different fan base of people from a college night I used to do and I did it every Friday and Saturday for two years straight and it was crazy. But like I get PTSD from like even thinking about doing that again.

1:19:56That sounds intense. That's actually that's a tour in and of itself.

1:20:00Oh my gosh.

1:20:01It was an amazing night in Missouri in the middle of nowhere, but it was a they were very supportive. Good college town. um they had had a a a street of clubs. So there was like maybe like 12 clubs all on one street. And ours just happened to have a garage door that would open up. So I got to blast my music out into the street and like you give me the space to play louder and I will do it. And [laughter] people were like dancing in the club and right out

1:20:30in front of the club like almost every weekend. Like it got crazy. And

1:20:37it it was such a um doing it every

1:20:42Like it was it was good to have the routine, but man, like I I don't know if I could do a place for two years

1:20:49No, cuz that really I mean I mean it's a that's a lot.

1:20:54That's a lot. All of your weekends spoken for

1:20:56every weekend. Like think about like you want to go hang out or you got a birthday thing you want to go do. No, I have a two-year residency that I did like for two years straight.

1:21:04Wow. Oh my gosh. But you must have grown so much from because I I find that when you do an intense anything, you grow like Yeah.

1:21:15DJing alone, every time you touch it, every time you do a crowd, every time you do a night, like it's it's like every time you perform, it's practice. It makes you better for the next time. So, it definitely made me better um at a lot of things doing those nights. Um, and every time I go and DJ or do a show, I learn something I didn't even know about something that happened. You know, thought I knew everything. Not necessarily true. Every time you still have things to learn.

1:21:44Okay. So, from your last show, what did you learn?

1:21:48Sound guys might not show up. Like, I've been learning this [laughter] lately. This has been a thing lately. Like I don't know what it is with sound guys,

1:21:56the sound guys have been usually I have amazing sound guys. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to like talk bad about sound guys, but life happens and sometimes a sound guy might not show up or they might send you a brand new sound guy that has really never done this before, but he's learning because our show is not as big as the the stuff they usually do. So,

1:22:18You know.

1:22:19Yeah. Yeah. So that is when you learn how to run sound on the fly. [laughter]

1:22:34Yeah. I I mean I know enough to be dangerous, but it's not what I want to be doing in the night with three bands that I booked.

1:22:41Oh, yeah. Well, and I mean it's like honestly um I really do look at the sound engineer as the extra person in the band. Like it can make or break your show. Yeah.

1:22:51You know, like if somebody really knows and deeply understand like the world of sound and they get your vibe and they're like, "Okay, this is what they're going for." Like, oh, it's amazing. Absolutely

1:23:04Yeah. The next time all my sound guys that do an amazing job for me, because I've had some amazing sound guys that have taught me a lot, I'm going to give them an extra tight hug and you know where it's coming from.

1:23:13Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. It's so appreciated because gosh, I'm like on the flip side when it's it's not so great and it's like that's painful. [laughter] Like when I have the whales like the mic, they just cannot stop feeding back and you're like, "Oh my god, no matter where I stand, I need to just go stand in the corner now." [laughter]

1:23:34That's one of the first things I learned how to do with sound is like when you get that that sound, that high pitch sound, it just won't go off for the world with the microphone.

1:23:42One of the first things I learned. Don't point your mic at the speaker.

1:23:50Yes. Yes.

1:23:51Could be the ring on your finger or the jewelry or, you know, there's something something minor that is just bothering you all night if you don't figure it

1:23:59Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, you I saw that you have um several events on deck actually that are coming up. Um

1:24:08I partner with venues and I do my own. Um, I have I've been trying to focus more on my bands, the record label bands, and booking their stuff, but then people are like, "When's your next show?" And I'm like, "Oh gosh, I guess I still have to do shows, too." So,

1:24:26so I've been liking that I go with the bands on their shows and, you know, it kind of like I get to get that tour management experience as well as DJ at the same time. So, I'm doing a little bit more of it that way. that tends to like get multiple things done at once. But now that they've gone out a few times, I'm like, "Okay, you guys can go. I don't need to go with you." You know, like I, you know, there's there's learning both roles is the the on-site tour manager and there's the virtual tour manager. Um, so with my shows, I'm trying to scale back on my Havoc shows

1:25:01and only doing the selective ones that I want to do. For instance, Halloween. I've been working on Halloween since February. like Halloween, Halloween, Halloween. I always love doing my Halloween shows.

1:25:13Um I have Nitzar Reb is coming. They're doing a tour. Um Kurt Mackey and S is on that tour. I know you had them on here.

1:25:22I've had them both on

1:25:24good people. They're in Austin. They're right next door to me. So I It's funny. I went to Austin for a completely different show and Kel's playing next door and John's like, "Hey, Kirst's playing next door." I'm like, "What?"

1:25:37That's awesome. I love the small world. I really do.

1:25:40Yeah. Yeah. So, um that and Curtis and I started talking then and you know before you know it, here's the show and Curse is on the lineup. You know, this is why the communication happens because before you know it, you're working with them. And it was really good that I just happened to bump into him and sign at that show cuz I had booked sign for um one of my masquerade balls in Houston a year before

1:26:05and I hadn't got to see them again and I just bumped into them at that show and I'm like, "Oh my god, I got some shows coming up. I would love to have you guys open for these shows." And um they came and did one of mine recently. Sign did the crew shadows one and then of course they're on the Nids Repour. So, it's like, okay, the same people I've worked with before are on the same tours that are come around, makes it so much

1:26:29Absolutely. Absolutely. And especially, it's like if you have good relationships with them and you like working together, it makes all the difference. For sure.

1:26:37And then there are shows that are coming around that I'm just promoting, which is like I've been asked, can you just promote the show? Like, we don't we don't need you to do the whole setup. We would love you just to promote the show. I'm like, absolutely. I love just doing that. So there's some that I'm just promoting and then there's some that I'm producing. So I'm like exploring all the different levels of it, you know, um, and trying to do it more as the record label and not as much as production company. I love seeing all the new production companies that are popping up

1:27:11and helping them out and working with them and getting my bands to work with them and, you know, taking a step back a little bit. Well, it probably frees you up to be able to focus on the things that you really are really charged up about.

1:27:25Yeah. And I've got like a residency DJing in Fort Worth now. Um that is not my show. I can just show up and do my own load in and play music all night. Like Yeah. So, it gives me it gives me time to do some of my own stuff by not producing the shows as much anymore.

1:27:41Yeah. Yeah. Although I'm like, "Your shows have been awesome." [laughter]

1:27:46I love doing my shows, too. I love them. there are pretty fun. Like I love what I what I would love is to go to more shows like mine. Like um Dallas has a good scene. Um theirs are really awesome. But like you know if I travel to Colorado, where's the show at? You know, like who's out there doing doing this? You know, like finding it in all the different spots. Like that's another great thing you get to do when you're touring with bands and you're working with bands is they get to go to those places. So, it makes it easier when I want to go to those

1:28:20Yeah, that's true. And it's so it's so it's so sweet to see how each and everybody's so different about how they approach it, you know? So, it's it's really cool to learn from each other and, you know, to see how different people cultivate their communities. Um, we love playing in North Carolina and like there's uh DJ Spider, I've had her on on here as well. Um, and it's so sweet. Like she puts together like these picnics sometimes. Um, which I'm like, "Yes." I'm like, "I wish I lived closer here cuz I want to go to a goth picnic,

1:28:53Yeah. [laughter] Just did a picnic in Florida as well. And I'm like, "What is this picnic thing that everybody's

1:28:58Everyone loves a good picnic. Or at least I do.

1:29:02It's so innovative. of like picnic, huh? I don't even know where to begin.

1:29:07I mean, you just have to get a little picnic basket and get a bunch of friends and then

1:29:12Is there music, too?

1:29:14I think there probably is music. I've never been to an actual goth picnic, but I really

1:29:18Sounds pretty amazing.

1:29:20Yes. I'm like, I need to look for one locally here. [laughter]

1:29:25Yeah. There's been goth picnics popping up everywhere, and I'm like, I I have no idea where to begin with that.

1:29:30I know. Well, but you have to bring your umbrella, right? And your picnic basket.

1:29:35It's Texas. We don't do picnics.

1:29:38That's true. That's true. I It is very hot in Texas.

1:29:42We do swim pool like I'll do pool parties. We can do the equipment.

1:29:45I mean, see, that's pretty great. That's pretty great. [laughter]

1:29:49Watch. I'll have an email about that. Like, so got this venue with a pool.

1:29:55I mean, this is where it all begins, right? [laughter]

1:29:59Oh my gosh. Na, thank you so much for for taking the time to to chat and to hang out. Um, I was wondering, do you have any like um like wisdoms or perspectives to to share that we haven't

1:30:13Too many for this podcast? [laughter]

1:30:17You'll just have to have you on again.

1:30:18I need to write a book or something or like Yeah. Have me on again. That would be cool.

1:30:23Yes. Yes, please. Yeah. No, it's it's really um so Curse, you know, um just finished writing this on philosophy.

1:30:30I know. I need to get my hands on that,

1:30:33It's really good. Yeah, it's I love that it's like little mini essays, so it's like you can you you don't it's like it's not overwhelming. You can just like pick it up and you can have like I just have time to read this one page and it's like this wisdom that you can just take with you.

1:30:48He's such a smart, talented man. I have no doubt it's a good book. I'm going to definitely get that. Like you guys watch the rest of her podcast. There's a lot of interesting people. Tash is an amazing host. Thank you for having me so much. It's an honor.

1:31:03Thank you. I really appreciate you and everything that you've done, not just for us, but just for the community, like seeing how much love you have for bands and artists and um your joy for music. Um just really appreciate that. Yeah,

1:31:19my pleasure. I look forward to your tour next year. Yes, I'm we're excited to be out there. Um, dear friends, thank you all so much for hanging out. Um, as always, it is such a pleasure. Um, next week we're going to have Bellhead um from Chicago on here. We've played some shows with Bellhead um ourselves. Um, they are wonderful, wonderful people. Um, it's a duo and they both play bass and they are awesome. So, um, yeah, we hope to see y'all there. And in the meantime, sending a lot of luck.